Instigator
Points: 2

God has no gender (For RM in particular but will accept another user)

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 1 vote the winner is ...
RationalMadman
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Philosophy
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Three days
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Points: 7
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Round 1
Published:
Before I get into the argument, I want to clarify that I am referring to gender as in sex rather than an identity or some type of spiritual or metaphorical thing. 
God can be thought of in various ways, and I do not believe God exists, but for the sake of this debate I will be assuming that Fiora (RM's God) exists. For those who are unaware, Fiora is essentially a quantum computer that "gives birth" to the binary codes that structure physical reality,  "she" is supposedly "inseminated" by a chaotic force that RM calls Fate, which provides the possibilities in an incoherent format which Fiora must articulate into code.
RM told me about all of this, and he seems to believe in it in a partially literal and partially metaphorical way. In other words he genuinely believes Fiora is female but it is largely a sort of hermetic/personality based concept of gender. I will not be discussing that aspect unless he brings it up however or tries to legitimize it, because that kind of concept of gender has no objective basis.
The main problem with God having an actual sexual gender is that God is not a biological organism, I trust I will not have to clarify that point. In order for God to be female, you will have to demonstrate how Fiora's characteristics at least parallel biological femaleness in a more than metaphorical way. This is inherently impossible though, because the process of coding and generating the algorithm for reality itself is far more complex and works entirely different to biological reproduction. On top of this, Fate has even less potential to be male than Fiora has to be female (thus rendering her gender doubly non-existent because if fate is not male it makes no sense to call her female) because as you yourself have specified, Fate has no tangible attributes or definable characteristics in particular but instead represents an infinite and simultaneous string of possibilities, similar to the "probability cloud" of quantum mechanics, usually in reference to the unspecified position of an electron.
Published:
Okay so basically we both agree, it seems, and Pro is trying to trap me into a completely incorrect definition of 'gender' which he knew that I, as a left-leaning Progressive, consider different to biological sex would accept because it said 'gender' and not 'sex' and now is trying to change that back to mean 'sex'. No, I am not some noob to go OMG this isn't fair waa waa, I am going to annihilate your semantic play here and now with every single official and highly respects English dictionary on the Internet.

Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

The fact or condition of belonging to or identifying with a particular gender.

Gender is the state of being male or female in relation to the social and cultural roles that are considered appropriate for men and women.

the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex
c : GENDER IDENTITY

Those seeking state driver's licenses in Massachusetts are closer to being able to designate their gender as "X'' instead of "male" or "female." The state Senate has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would allow for the nonbinary designation on licenses.
— Steve LeBlanc

Facebook's message was clear when the social media network added new gender options for users on Thursday: the company is sensitive to a wide spectrum of gender identity and wants users to feel accommodated no matter where they see themselves on that spectrum.
— Katy Steinmetz

Gender refers to the socially constructed characteristics of women and men – such as norms, roles and relationships of and between groups of women and men. It varies from society to society and can be changed. While most people are born either male or female, they are taught appropriate norms and behaviours – including how they should interact with others of the same or opposite sex within households, communities and work places. When individuals or groups do not “fit” established gender norms they often face stigma, discriminatory practices or social exclusion – all of which adversely affect health. It is important to be sensitive to different identities that do not necessarily fit into binary male or female sex categories.

Gender norms, roles and relations influence people’s susceptibility to different health conditions and diseases and affect their enjoyment of good mental, physical health and wellbeing. They also have a bearing on people’s access to and uptake of health services and on the health outcomes they experience throughout the life-course.

Understandings of gender continually evolve. In the course of a person’s life, the interests, activities, clothing and professions that are considered the domain of one gender or another evolve in ways both small and large. This has perhaps never been more true than it is now. The data show that today’s young people have significantly different understandings of gender than previous generations, with consequences for all children, families, organizations and institutions. For example:

  • A 2015 Fusion Millennial poll of adults ages 18-34 in the USA found that the majority see gender as a spectrum, rather than a man/woman binary.
  • A 2017 Harris Poll of millennials found that 12% identify as Transgender or gender non-conforming.
  • Research by J. Walter Thompson Intelligence (the research arm of the global marketing communications company) found that 56% of those aged 13-20 know someone who uses gender-neutral pronouns (such as they/them).
  • Leading businesses are beginning to change traditional gender-based marketing of products, such as removing “pink and blue” clothing and toy aisles.
All of us are inundated with gender messages from the time we are born, yet we offer children few opportunities to more deeply consider or understand this fundamentally important aspect of life. Basic gender literacy is essential for children to understand their own gender, engage in healthy relationships, identify and place media and social messages in context, and have agency in determining aspects of their gender now and in the future. Societal ideas about gender will affect every critical aspect of their lives, from education to career, finances, relationships and more.

Want more dictionaries or authorities on the matter? I'd be happy to provide.

Gender is NOT biological sex, it is the 'he/she/they' elements attached to it.

I will come at this from three different angles.

The anti-binary Kritik
This is extremely simple. Gender is no longer considered binary, so even if God is neither male nor female, they can have a 'they/them' type gender or whatever else.

The God-the-Father angle
God, in many religions, is socially regarded as a daddy of the followers and all that is (especially all that is alive). He is a dominant male figure in many religions.

Greek Paganism
Zeus was the first of the GODS and a very imposing figure. Often referred to as the “Father of Gods and men”

Norse Paganism
One of Odin’s countless names is “Allfather” (Old Norse Alfaðir), “because,” according to Snorri Sturluson, “he is the father of all of the gods.”

Christianity
God the Father is the first Person of the Trinity, which also includes his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

Judaism
In Psalms 89:26 God is referred to as Father. "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation."[5]

In Isaiah 62:5, God is compared to the bridegroom, and his people to the bride.

"For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee."
In Isaiah 63:16, God is directly addressed and called "our Father".
- The Old Testament Bible


The God is Female Angle (includes Judaism)

I, and many others who have thought deep into religion and a clue beneath the story, believe that God is a female who is very insecure and trapped in a state of only wanting the particularly astute, courageous and morally worthy to find her and love her as she truly is and would prefer proxy-Gods to falsely represent her if the people are sheep who are unworthy of gaining her sexual attraction and making her wet over how intelligent, courageous and ultimately sided-with-good that they are.

Sikhism and Judaism have clues that imply God is a female posing as a male. The clues in Judaism are many and I'll go into it if you want (OT bible only, NT is non-Jewish) and I also believe the Jewish God is actually Satana, A feminine alpha demon; daughter of Aurora (who is a false depiction of Fiora). Sikhism specifically says the nine Gurus prior to the tenth are male and that they are always incomplete or not properly evolved until the tenth one; somethign is sufficiently different in the tenth one (ten dimensions of reality in string theory with m-theory saying the eleventh could be chaotic like Fate itself or something) and the tenth may well be female. It never once is stated in Sikhism that the tenth Guru is male, it is assumed it's a 'he' because the first nine were regarded as male in the scriptures and story. Sikhism is an extremely feminine pro-Communist religion that encourages nurturing each other and growing out our hair, embracing the natural femininity in all of us.

God being a mother to all reality can even enter the realm of biological sex because look at what God physically is; a creator of living beings that doesn't guard them against natural disaster and doesn't dictate them in any overt way. God's role is severely like a mother is to a family and I would go as far as to say it's more of a neglectful, jaded mother who even wants an incest-like attraction to her creations if they can prove themselves worthy of that love and affection from her.
Round 2
Published:
Pro is trying to trap me into a completely incorrect definition of 'gender' which he knew that I, as a left-leaning Progressive, consider different to biological sex would accept because it said 'gender' and not 'sex' and now is trying to change that back to mean 'sex'. 
I am further left than you by far and I don't accept this re-definition of the word gender. If I expected you to play word games I would have used the word "sex" because I already know your position on the terminology. Apparently I put too much faith in you and expected an actual argument against the position that you already know I am putting forward. It is tiresome how people want to redefine things or knit pick about how a debate is worded instead of debating. 

Gender is NOT biological sex, it is the 'he/she/they' elements attached to it.
I don't care how many dictionaries you bring up, if gender means what you say it does then it's impossible for you to win because it's just a social construct and figment of the imagination, therefore NO ONE has a gender other than the mere subjective idea of it. Biological gender is science, the gender you are referring to is nothing but how an entity personally identifies and the cultural baggage that comes with biological gender. Therefor any claim of gender under your definition is just as valid as saying "I identify as a piece of Vietnamese pottery".

Now here is a link to a full definition of gender, note how "sex" is included in and of itself and RM is merely narrowing down the definition to the interpretation that suits him.
Gender has always been interchangeable with sex, only recently has it been redefined by the pussies who think being a leftist is about protecting everyone's feelings.

This is extremely simple. Gender is no longer considered binary, so even if God is neither male nor female, they can have a 'they/them' type gender or whatever else.
Gender is not binary (not even real gender, nevermind meaningless social construct gender). Biologically humans are either male or female, with occasional anomalies of the hormones/chromosomes that result in something mixed or Agendered. But there are other species on earth that aren't the same as humans and probably extra-terrestrial life forms with genders not found on earth. God however is not an organism or else it would not be "god" but just some alien creature..

God, in many religions, is socially regarded as a daddy of the followers and all that is (especially all that is alive). He is a dominant male figure in many religions.
I don't care what superstitious monkeys want to associate with their humanoid gods. If a god is real it is not a man with a beard who throws lightning bolts, so we need to stick to realistic conceptions of what god might be like. Otherwise you can simply win by saying "look at this random pagan god, people associate a gender with him therefore I win because gender is whatever people identify it as" which is what you're trying to do.
When I said God, I meant an actual God if it were to exist, not just any made up God. Otherwise I could literally just make up 2 gods that have no gender for every god you use as an example and my argument would be just as valid as yours.

The Jewish or Christian God (particularly jewish) is a more realistic idea of God than the others you brought up. Christianity is a little theologically stupid though because somehow Jesus is God and God's son simultaneously. The christian God however, basically IS the Jewish God and the Jewish God technically has no gender but is called "he" out of respect and to denote him as a dominant figure.

In Kabbalah/Jewish mysticism God has both feminine and masculine aspects, but is technically neither. Since Kabbalists and mystics are the ones who are thought of as "closest to god" and are the theological experts, their ideas hold more weight than mere cultural quirks.
In the article we both linked to, multiple points of view are explored but notice that culturally and grammatically he is considered male but theologically he is no particular gender. Therefore it is safe to say he is neither technically, and is only commonly referred to as male out of cultural association with varying opinions on the matter.




Published:
I already admitted that Judaism is vague on God's Gender. In Islam, it is actually vague if God is actually male or is a being beyond Gender that is assuming a masculine form to highlight that men are superior to women (sexist but not important to this debate).

See, the idea that any one religion truly knows God or not is agreed by Pro and Con to be vague and unprovable. We don't know God for certain but since it's society and what it assigns to God and ascertains about him/her/them/it, it is coming down to the fact that I have countered Con in three ways from 2 spikes (one spike has two elements).

If God is neither male or female, or it's left vague, then it is called a non-binary Gender in this day and age.

Non-Binary Defined

Most people – including most transgender people – are either male or female. But some people don't neatly fit into the categories of "man" or "woman," or “male” or “female.” For example, some people have a gender that blends elements of being a man or a woman, or a gender that is different than either male or female. Some people don't identify with any gender. Some people's gender changes over time.

People whose gender is not male or female use many different terms to describe themselves, with non-binary being one of the most common. Other terms include genderqueer, agender, bigender, and more. None of these terms mean exactly the same thing – but all speak to an experience of gender that is not simply male or female.

(Note: NCTE uses both the adjectives “male” and “female” and the nouns “man” and “woman” to refer to a person’s gender identity.)

Why “Non-Binary”?

Some societies – like ours – tend to recognize just two genders, male and female. The idea that there are only two genders is sometimes called a “gender binary,” because binary means “having two parts” (male and female). Therefore, “non-binary” is one term people use to describe genders that don’t fall into one of these two categories, male or female.

God is possibly genderqueer and also plausibly a trans female posing as male in many religions. Either way, we must appreciate that God's gender may not be certainly identified but is certainly there. What this comes down to is the acceptance of the following:

I can know, for certain, that you have a weight but not know the actual value of your weight or be able to prove the weight beyond realistic speculation.

I speculate that to most religious folk, God is assigned male. I accept that Pro is saying, God is not necessarily male and that some religions who say 'he' even admit God is beyond the sexes of the humans and that 'gender' isn't inherently something they would say God is chained to but these religions are hypocritical since they absolutely do assign the male gender to God.

When a religion consistently refers to God as an alpha male figure or father figure, it cannot then say God is truly beyond gender. The difference between sex and gender is that gender is something that the society assigns to the person and morally, it is something the society should respect if the person doesn't agree with the society on assigning to it.

God has never come down to Earth to say that it wants no gender at all and even if it did, Pro would have to prove that THAT is the God. I have yet to see anything addressing the fact I raise in Round 1 of God being consistently referred to as either male or genderqueer and plausibly a female who is trans-male.

God is functionally a mother to all reality, this has not been sufficiently rebuked by Pro
Round 3
Published:
I have given my reasons why God cannot have a gender/sex in round one. Any claim of gender in the way that con defines it is subjective and arbitrary. You cannot ask God what it's gender is, you cannot prove that any particular rendition of God exists, and all claims of God's gender are left up to personal opinion or inter-subjective cultural bullshit. As it stands, God either can have no gender for the reasons I stated which have yet to be disputed or even if it does it's impossible to prove it's gender or that it has one to begin with.
Also, I identify as the person who won this debate, so please respect my identity and vote for me.
Published:
It is the society that decides the gender and assigns the gender of another being. This matching that being's personal preference for the assigned gender is important for modern day LGBTQ-friendly societies but it doesn't mean there isn't an assigned gender. This is why the issue with the old-fashioned system was that based solely on your born sex, they would assign 'he'll grow to be a tough man' and 'she'll grow to be a tender woman' etc.

Thus everyone Pro just said is negated since Pro's argument is that we can't know God's gender because no religion has objectively proven it but gender is defined as that which society gives the entity.
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#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Con won in definitions - pro intended the debate to be unwinnable by arguing gender means sex, con argued gender means the general interpretation of gender as defined.
On this count, despite pros rant that he doesn’t care what gender means according time the dictionary, he did little to change the debate away from pros characterization. As a result, con characterized gender to his advantage and wins the debate.
The two ancilliary points to raise based on pros argument: are that gender is a social construct, so no one can truly have it. This smacks of grasping at straws here - and pro refutes himself twice: first by arguing “no one has gender - other than....” the other than is important as it means that pro agrees that there is a way for God to have Gender; second by admitting that we monkeys appear Gods gender. Both would appear to negate the resolution in the way pro presents gender.
Pro also shoots himself in the foot by admitting that the meaning of the word has been redefined - implying the meaning has changed.
Pro has to offer a clear definition of gender, and a clear argument for why God - namely RMs God doesn’t have a Gender. Pro doesn’t really do either, which means con wins this.
Sources:
Con wins on sources here, as he hammers down pros argument with each successive definition. These sources build his definition into a broad and authoritative definition that was next to impossible for pro to challenge. Pro was playing catch up, with him being unable to produce any sources that appeared to bolster his warrant. Whilst con offered multiple dictarkomary definitions, pros only relevant argument that utilized a source was his definition of gender incorporating sex, which required a broad and overtly favourable interpretation to mean what pro claims it does - as a result, con hardened his position immensely with sources, and pros sources made almost no difference to hisnwarrant.
Sources to con