Instigator / Pro
3
1266
rating
119
debates
15.97%
won
Topic
#596
Encore was Eminem's worst album
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
0
1
After 1 vote and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
RationalMadman
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
7
1706
rating
561
debates
68.09%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
Disclaimer:
I was extremely drunk and high when I wrote this. Let it be stated that recreational marijuana use is legal in my state and I am of age to be drunk off my ass. I wrote a nice rap just now but was too drunk to even record it, so now you know how drunk I am.
Encore fucking sucks. It's Eminem's worst album and I am going to slap your labial pussy lips until you agree.
The most obvious way to tell that Eminem was in a stupor upon the conception of that album, is that he filled a "skit" and partial segments of the songs throughout with a chorus of burpage and flatulence. Such is most immatureth-like and not fit for an album of rap. For exemplificationals see:
Actually nevermind, I looked on youtube briefly but I can't be bothered to dig up those stupid parts of the album. You'll just have to take my word that it is most idiotically retarded.
Further fucking more, I do not give a shit about conduct points. You are a fucking sack of fucksticks and I hope your step father molested you.
But anywhooooooooooooooo let's get down to beeswax.
All of the other opening songs on all of Eminem's other albums are better than the opening song of Encore "Evil Deeds". Sure it has some poetic value in it's own way but at the expense of literally every other element of rap.
Let us compare:
Encore's opening shitfest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7LRcDMVMTw
Every other opener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8eA7SRTb7Y
(Revival excluded because it is harder to dig up)
Con
#2
So far 0 arguments have been put forth by Pro. Pro has to explain both why that opening is the worst and why having the worst opening makes it the worst album in spite of all other criteria to measure an album on.
Round 2
Pro
#3
So far con has provided nothing and I have at least directly shown one way that Encore is gay as well as an additional reason that I wasn't in the mood to dig up evidence of. Anyone who has listened to the album knows what I'm talking about though.
As for why evil deeds is worse than all the other opening songs it is obvious from listening. Evil Deeds is barely even rap first of all and it is far less lyrical than the other songs. You can easily tell that the rhymes, flow, wordplay and even the meaning behind a few of them are better.
Con
#4
In order to prove that Encore was Eminem's absolute worst album of all his albums, Pro has concluded the following:
1. The opening song, Evil Deeds, is the worst of all 'first proper tracks' of other albums basically. (actually it isn't Evil Deeds that was the second song in the album but the opening track was a skit-type track so I'll let Evil Deeds be the opening track as it benefits us both it seems)
2. Having the worst opening song defaults the entire album to be the absolute worst album of all the albums regardless of all other criteria of measuring how great and successful that an album was.
3. The reason that Evil Deeds was the worst 'first proper track' on an album of all time is that it is barely even rap which is apparently blatant from just listening to it. It is allegedly far less lyrical than the opening tracks of other albums and therefore the Evil Deeds is lacking in all elements of song-quality that aren't lyrical and somehow is to be concluded to be the worst lyrically because Pro says that 'it is blatantly not even rap just from listening to it'.
Oh dear, where to begin...
Evil Deeds is rap even if Pro says it's blatantly not rap at all. Evil Deeds is lyrical even if Pro says it isn't. Pro has proven nothing and lost this debate by failing to meet his BoP in any shape or form.
Let's get on with this.
Evil Deeds is possibly one of the greatest tracks of Eminem of all time. In my eyes it's in his top 10. It is so incredible in every way that a rap can be incredible and even though normally Eminem has 'whiny kid RAAA I AM ANGRY' delivery, somehow in Encore he toned it down (despite going straight back to it in the following albums and the ones before having consistently had this irritating tone).
The beginning is such pure-form poetry that it fascinated me, I have almost never seen another rapper other than perhaps K.A.A.N. or Tech N9ne, comprehend how to bend the rules of rap and deliver so flexibly around a not-so-rigid scheme.
Evil Deeds Lyrical breakdown: Credit to https://genius.com/532189 for helping me with this.
Momma had a baby and its head popped offHead popped off, head popped off, head popped off, head popped off, head popped offBut Momma don't want me, the next thing I know, I'm gettin' dropped offGettin' dropped off, gettin' dropped off, gettin' dropped off, gettin' dropped offRing-ring-ring on the doorbell of the next door neighbors, on their front porchTheir front porch, their front porch, their front porch, their front porchBut they didn't want me neither, so they left me on someone else's lawnElse's lawn, else's lawn, else's lawn'Til somebody finally took me in, my great aunt and uncle, Edna and CharlesEdna and Charles, Edna and Charles, Edna and Charles, Edna and Charles, they were the ones who were left in charge
Whether or not you like the repetition, it is consistent and is a style of rapping (repeating on purpose and yet like a fool) that Eminem had never done before and in fact the entirety of Encore was Eminem coming up with styles and themes that were far less 'I am a tryhard rapper who wants to rip your head off' and far more 'yo, time to spit meaningful lyrics and I'm a poet not just a rap artist'.
Those lines I just quoted may appear lyrically weak to Pro but they are not.
The head popping off may refer to how Eminem would always lose his mind, or be reference to previous songs from his old-school album(s) where he said he was brain damaged and seriously got his wig split by a bully by smashing it into a urinal. Aside from revealing 'maybe I'm just too crazy and dumb' for my mother this is a shout out to the nursery rhyme you chant while plucking dandelion petals (or can do with the whites of a full-formed dandelion) https://ask.metafilter.com/143684/Wow-children-do-weird-things but the lyrics say the baby's head popped of while the saying usually is the mother's head.
The second line (well third, following the repetition) refers to that after his mother didn't want him, his great aunt and uncle on his father’s side, decided to take him in. It's also a shoutout to the show Charles in Charge that refers to a situation where the parents aren't necessarily best for their children. That's basically what Edna and Charles were for him; makeshift parents and guardians.
Predominantly, predominantly, everything's always predominantlyPredominantly-white, predominantly black. well, what about me?Where does that leave me? Well, I guess that I'm between predominantly both of 'emI think if I hear that fuckin' word again, I'ma scream
This is ingenious. Seriously, this is the first time Eminem ever tried to be non-tryhard with how he used lyrics. He was semi-mocking Wayne and rappers like him who at the time were rising by repeating lyrics over and over. This is also ingenious as there's a subtle reference to how black rappers can repeat the N-word like that just to fill in bars. Eminem is saying that they say rap isn't for him because it's predominantly black and they say all the predominantly white walks of life aren't for trailer trash with bad grades and a dropout like he was so where exactly is he meant to fit in? They should shut up telling him what's normal or predominantly anything. He is an anomaly and he knows it (I'm surprised he didn't rhyme anomaly with it later on).
That's literally enough to show how lyrical the apparently dumb bars of Evil Deeds were.
I am not going to waste reader's time going into every part of the lyrics, not even the chorus and how that was both about his own father and father up in heaven. There was so much depth to it, and the entirety of Encore that you're left with nothing.
Mosh took on George Bush and really was a high-risk high-reward song that alienated a lot of right-wing Stans (hardcore Eminem fans call themselves Stans). That's the main song that led people to hate on Encore did you actually know how the meme started to say Eminem is becoming trash waaa waa new Eminem sucks? The thing is that the album following Encore pretty much did suck and received even more hate than Encore did from both Stans and non-hardcore fans. It only seemed to attract people who didn't like Eminem.
Mockingbird was a phenomenal song. He had never ever gone that deep with a song before and never has since, he was revealing more Marshall Mathers than Slim Shady there, for sure.
Toy Soldiers was fantastic and deeply emotional too.
I don't really know what people hate about Encore. The entire album was the first time Eminem ever tried to not be a yell-in-the-mic furious type of rapper and everyone's crying about it. Shut up, seriously. Let a guy show his emotional side. The reason it was named Encore is so many people were asking for Eminem to release another album so he teamed up with Dr. Dre and 50 Cent and released the album that cemented him in the history of rap. Until Encore it's a fact that Eminem was basically just a great rapper who came and went. Once he released Encore both his haters and lovers admitted he was undeniably hilarious, deep and ingenious with his lyrics.
He dared to fuck with Bush Jr., Michael Jackson (in the song Just Lose It's video and the song was about the children he victimised and how they should have just lost it and beaten the guy as well as bout him losing his sanity and dignity) and a whole lot more. Eminem was a fucking genius with Encore. It was the album that made me as a kid go holy shit this guy is a lyrical genius. Until Encore, he was basically just a 'I'm the best fuck all of you RAAAAR I'm so angry!!!!!!!!!' who still was good at rap but had a shit attitude.
I think the best part about Encore vs all other Eminem albums is that there isn't a single song in it that isn't all three of the following:
- Catchy
- Deeply Emotional
- Fascinating from a poet's standpoint in how he pushes the boundaries of rigid-structure rap and enters the realm of an actual artist painting words and such.
- Hilarious at points with the metaphors.
I leave you with one of Eminem's greatest songs ever:
Round 3
Pro
#5
Having the worst opening song defaults the entire album to be the absolute worst album of all the albums regardless of all other criteria of measuring how great and successful that an album was.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
Pro says that 'it is blatantly not even rap just from listening to it'.
Stop distorting what I said to make it easier to dispute.
Evil Deeds is rap even if Pro says it's blatantly not rap at all. Evil Deeds is lyrical even if Pro says it isn't.
Evil Deeds is not rap even if con says it blatantly is. Evil Deeds is not lyrical even if con says it is.
Evil Deeds is possibly one of the greatest tracks of Eminem of all time. In my eyes it's in his top 10.
Yes and according to you Nicki Minaj, Hopsin and Chris Webby are better rappers than Eminem so we know what your opinion is worth.
RM wrote this which he can testify to if he is not an insanely dishonest prick.
That's literally enough to show how lyrical the apparently dumb bars of Evil Deeds were.
Yes I get it, he traded every other element of rap just so he could make a song filled with double meanings and references, and did well in that regard while rhyming at a sub-par level and repeating words constantly. Eminem has made songs where he has metaphors AND good flow/rhymes etc.
This rap is full of double-meaning wordplay and although it isn't emotional but more along the lines of puns it still shows that Evil Deeds was only good in that one way and you don't need to sacrifice everything else to use double meanings and metaphors.
This song is very similar to Evil Deeds in theme and even has metaphors only with great rhymes and flow.
Mosh took on George Bush and really was a high-risk high-reward song
There are songs like that from other Albums. The presence of a few good songs doesn't make Encore a good album compared to the others. As I will demonstrate later more sub-par songs are on Encore than good ones.
The thing is that the album following Encore pretty much did suck and received even more hate than Encore did from both Stans and non-hardcore fans. It only seemed to attract people who didn't like Eminem.
Relapse was amazing compared to Encore, and while Encore has a few great songs like mosh and toy soldiers which Relapse is lacking the average song on relapse is way more lyrical than the average Encore song.
The entire album was the first time Eminem ever tried to not be a yell-in-the-mic furious type of rapper and everyone's crying about it. Shut up, seriously. Let a guy show his emotional side......Until Encore, he was basically just a 'I'm the best fuck all of you RAAAAR I'm so angry!!!!!!!!!' who still was good at rap but had a shit attitude.
These disprove that, and there are many more examples.
I think the best part about Encore vs all other Eminem albums is that there isn't a single song in it that isn't all three of the following:
- Catchy
- Deeply Emotional
- Fascinating from a poet's standpoint in how he pushes the boundaries of rigid-structure rap and enters the realm of an actual artist painting words and such.
- Hilarious at points with the metaphors.
LOL okay dude, you may be forgetting about these.
All these may have at least one of the things you mentioned going for them, but none of them have all those things by any means.
Con
#6
You know the stuff he links at the end? Yeah, well whether it's anger, jealousy or joy or whatever, he is expressing emotions in all those songs. Unlike his other albums the anger isn't 'I'll kill you' furious anger it's 'I hope you suffer' styled rage. This was very different to before.
The entire album Encore changed how the world viewed Eminem and some Stans hated it, some non-fans began to love him for it. Eminem went from a brutal 'slay 'em all' type to a 'bitch, I got emotions whether you like to hear 'em or not' type of guy. He went from a sort of overly alpha male to a male who cared less about hierarchy but still enjoyed his prowess and the attention he could garner. He used that attention to take hits at Bush, Michael Jackson and other things in his life but unlike his previous albums, in the song Mockingbird, didn't lash out at his ex Kim but pleaded with and reached out to his daughter Hailey.
Pro seems to have this idea of 'lyrical quality' as if it's objective and brings a list I made I think over a year ago? Literally it was a solid year ago April last year and the rap game has changed since then. That scaling had many factors to it other than the ability to rap but included that and weighted it. Other than MGK, all other predictions proved true. I would upgrade Vinnie to #1, put minaj as #3 and put eminem above hopsin now with madchild and merkules replacing MGK and Russ (Russ succeeded just less so). This prediction and scaling was about monsters in the rap game who i think are going to snowball the hell out of their career. The rest is still proving accurate. That has nothing to do with Eminem vs Eminem album vs album.
I said that Encore was unique in that it's one of the single best albums if we factor in not having a single song on it that is lacking in depth, humorous puns, emotional depth and catchy beats and what Pro does is link four songs that simply display emotions he may not like or have tunes that although they are catchy and repetitive, he may not particularly enjoy. Encore wasn't about pleasing everyone, it was about exploring what Eminem was and could do as well as being one of 50 cent's greatest career-finalising albums. 50 Cent's songs following this were some nonsense shallow rap and his albums before it were literally ghetto rap 'i kill you blam blam I'm hood ni**a!' type stuff.
Eminem's 'never enough' kind of refers to me on this site and debate wins, it's an ageless piece but this song is simply phenomenal in the depth and thoughts expressed:
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
1.) Pro offers no comparison of the whole album vs all Eminems other albums, aside from the opening track argument - pro offers no objective reason why the whole album sucks compared to the others - and merely presents some subjective assertions to argue its bad. Cons counter argument in round 2, presented just as subjective a reason as to why encore was a good album that actually appeared coherent.
2.) pro won this in round 2 by providing a genuine breakdown of why Evil deeds was good, and breaks down the album - this casts enough doubt on the claim that it is the worst to clearly meet pros burden and win arguments.
Arguments to con.
Conduct:
Pro:
“I am going to slap your labial pussy lips until you agree.”
“Yes and according to you Nicki Minaj, Hopsin and Chris Webby are better rappers than Eminem so we know what your opinion is worth.”
“RM wrote this which he can testify to if he is not an insanely dishonest prick.”
Pro is rude, profane, and disrespectful throughout. Con was not. There is no place for this behaviour here.
Conduct to con.
I said 3 but meant 4 things
"isn't all four of the following"