Instigator / Con
13
1641
rating
63
debates
65.08%
won
Topic
#679

Is Calvinism True?

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
6
Better sources
4
6
Better legibility
3
3
Better conduct
3
3

After 3 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
18
1697
rating
556
debates
68.17%
won
Description

We will be arguing over whether Calvinism is valid or not. Calvinism is the belief that God handpicks who can be saved rather than it being a choice.

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@RationalMadman

I apologize. I was called into work and had forgotten about it. I will post one soon

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@David

thanks for the vote, I really appreciate the promises you keep.

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@Melcharaz

Isaiah was given as proof of omnipresence, not God controlling free will, which is why I ignored it

Also, why did you give Rational sources?

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@RationalMadman

I'm not even sure what RFD stands for, i'm talking with bsh1 about it, you entered in biblical evidence that supports God forcing free will, yet it seems to be forgotten by you and dismissed by speedrace.

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@David

I got it

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@RationalMadman

I'll post a vote tomorrow. I think you won hands down

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@RationalMadman

I'm a bit behind on the report log. I will work on it as soon as I can

This site is A JOKE!

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@David
@bsh1

Melcharez's RFD is for me winning wtf happens???

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@Melcharaz

You want to change your vote? PM me about it.

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@David
@bsh1

Based on my voting, is it possible instead award the arguement to rational? Because he did give proof of God controlling free will, it was just swept under the rug so to speak.

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@Ramshutu
@PsychometricBrain
@oromagi

Please do make this your first stop, darlings.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

Fantastic lying skills, I am impressed by your RFD.

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@Alec

It is the belief that God chose certain people to become Christians and excludes others

As even the sins*

Not as seven

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@Speedrace

What is calvinism?

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@b9_ntt

John 14:6 is just saying that you cannot go to heaven unless you accept and take Jesus as your Lord and Savior. It's saying that no one gets to see God and heaven without humbling him/herself and admitting their fallibility to Jesus, who will then take the burden of their sins.

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@Speedrace

>That scripture has to do specifically with Jews. This passage explains it better: etc.

I don't get it. To me it appears to explain the verse John 6:65 but not 14:6.

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@Speedrace

1 Timothy 2:4 says: "[God] will have all men to be saved, And to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "
How could this be true if God selects only certain people to go to heaven? In fact, Why would he create certain people in the first place if he wasn't going to allow them to enter heaven? It makes no sense. In fact, It would entail controlling their free will:

first off, i have no idea what translation you are using, ill use a NASB. "Who DESIRES all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
This right here shows 2 possible thoughts, either God is speaking specifically to those he has elected, or he is expressing a desire for all men to seek him and be saved, obviously stating his desire but not his fore determined will.

John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
So one has to choose Jesus in order to enter heaven. However, In the Calvinist view, We've already been selected to go to heaven. Why do we have to choose if God's chosen us already?
Besides this, You're basically saying that God has condemned people to sin beyond their free will, But God hates sin more than anything else. So you're essentially saying that he created people to do something he hates and they can't control it.

No one can come to God except whom he has drawn. when he is talking, he is encouraging his disciples to not be troubled, They believe in God, so they believe also in him (Jesus Christ) Thomas asked him "How do we know the way?" Jesus tells him that he is the way and that no one can reach the father except through him. verse 7 actually helps with context. "If you had known Me, you would have known my Father also; from now on you know Him, and have see Him.

Yes, he fore ordained people that would sin so that he would show his wrath and fulfill his purpose and his glory through their destruction. Isaiah 46:10, just as he fore ordained people to salvation to show mercy. Romans 9:19-23

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@Melcharaz

I'll challenge you

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@Speedrace

You should have debated me on this issue. Rational has no interest in predestination nor does he believe in it.

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@b9_ntt

That scripture has to do specifically with Jews. This passage explains it better:

"Jesus is speaking to Jews whose hearts are not right with God. They are not faithful Jews and do not know the Father. Because they are not in right covenant relationship with the Father, they cannot recognize the perfect expression of the Father in the Son. Since they are not willing to do the Father’s will they cannot properly discern the truth of Christ’s words (John 7:17). Those who know the Father will recognize the truth of Christ’s words and be “drawn” to Him (6:44, 45, cf. John 3:21). They will be given to the Son and come to faith in Him as a result (6:37). To them alone has the Father granted access to the Son (6:65).

The passage has to do with the Father giving the faithful Jews to their long awaited Messiah. It has nothing to do with a pre-temporal unconditional election of certain sinners to come to faith in Christ. This is a conclusion that many have read into this passage according to a prior commitment to a theological system without any contextual warrant.

Jesus assures anyone who would come to Christ in faith that they will not be rejected. They will be accepted in the Beloved One of God (6:37)."

https://arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/category/john-665/

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@Speedrace

You wrote:
John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "
So one has to choose Jesus in order to enter heaven. However, In the Calvinist view, We've already been selected to go to heaven. Why do we have to choose if God's chosen us already?

John is confused. In the verse you quoted (John 14:6), Jesus says "No one comes to the Father except through me."
Yet, in John 6:65 Jesus says "... no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. "
If true, these two verses make it impossible to come to Jesus or to the Father.