Instigator
Points: 7

prescription medication is poison

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 3 votes the winner is ...
TheRealNihilist
Debate details
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Health
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Three days
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Points: 21
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Round 1
Published:
what i mean as poison a harmful substance meant to hurt someone

the word pharmakeai means

  1. the use or the administering of drugs
  2. poisoning
  3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
  4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry



the word pharmakon means

from pharmakon (a drug)
Definition
a poisoner, sorcerer, magician
NASB Translation



the world health association uses a snake and staff as there symbol


pharmakeai was originally in the bible but it was translated to sorcery in later versions in the bible
pharmakeai was used in this quote


https://www.stillsmallvoicetriage.org/healing/is-taking-prescription-medicines-the-same-as-witchcraft-pharmakeia/
http://www.deliveranceministriesgroup.com/pharmakeia/



most   if not all prescription medication tons of side effects per pill and   these side effects include thoughts to kill yourself puking blood   yellow eyes and skin disturbing weight gain increased. i'm making the   case that the side effects are poison
the   prescription dug Prozac which treats depression causes yellow skin and   eyes' thoughts of suicide 'and 120+ different thing. this drug helps   with depression. it is an anti depressant. but this is the most  hypercritical thing on the planet one of the side effects of taking  this prozac is depression. prozac is an anti depression. so it is sold  to people because it helps with depression then one of the side effect  of taking the pill is depression. so does it help with depression or   does it cause depression. these are not small side effect either here  is a small list blindness' blue-yellow color blindness' 'purple or red  spots on the skin' cool pale skin' yellow skin and eyes' thoughts of  suicide' 'trouble with breathing' etc


why does a drug that helps with depression end up with a side effect that causes depression seems a little counter productive.
. there 120+ side effects let that sink in.



  1. Hives, itching, or skin rash

  2. inability to sit still

  3. restlessness

  1. Chills or fever

  2. joint or muscle pain




  1. Anxiety

  2. cold sweats

  3. confusion

  4. convulsions (seizures)

  5. cool pale skin

  6. diarrhea

  7. difficulty with concentration

  8. drowsiness

  9. dryness of the mouth

  10. excessive hunger

  11. fast or irregular heartbeat

  12. headache

  13. increased sweating

  14. increased thirst

  15. lack of energy

  16. mood or behavior changes

  17. overactive reflexes

  18. purple or red spots on the skin

  19. racing heartbeat

  20. shakiness or unsteady walk

  21. shivering or shaking

  22. talking, feeling, and acting with excitement and activity you cannot control

  23. trouble with breathing

  24. unusual or incomplete body or facial movements

  25. unusual tiredness or weakness



  1. Abdominal or stomach pain

  2. agitation

  3. back or leg pains

  4. bleeding gums

  5. blindness

  6. blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin

  7. bloating

  8. blood in the urine or stools

  9. bloody, black or tarry stools

  10. blue-yellow color blindness

  11. blurred vision

  12. chest pain or discomfort

  13. clay-colored stools

  14. constipation

  15. continuing vomiting

  16. cough or dry cough

  17. dark urine

  18. decreased urine output

  19. decreased vision

  20. depression

  21. difficulty with breathing

  22. difficulty with swallowing

  23. dizziness or lightheadedness

  24. eye pain

  25. fainting

  26. fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse

  27. general body swelling

  28. high fever

  29. hives, itching, puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue

  30. hostility

  31. indigestion

  32. irregular or slow heart rate

  33. irritability

  34. large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, or sex organs

  35. light-colored stools

  36. loss of appetite

  37. loss of bladder control

  38. muscle twitching

  39. nausea

  40. nightmares

  41. no blood pressure or pulse

  42. noisy breathing

  43. nosebleeds

  44. pain in the ankles or knees

  45. painful, red lumps under the skin, mostly on the legs

  46. pains in the stomach, side, or abdomen, possibly radiating to the back

  47. pinpoint red spots on the skin

  48. rapid weight gain

  49. red or irritated eyes

  50. red skin lesions, often with a purple center

  51. redness, tenderness, itching, burning, or peeling of the skin

  52. severe muscle stiffness

  53. severe sleepiness

  54. slurred speech

  55. sore throat

  56. sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth

  57. stopping of heart

  58. sudden shortness of breath or troubled breathing

  59. sudden weakness in the arms or legs

  60. sudden, severe chest pain

  61. swelling of the face, ankles, or hands

  62. swollen or painful glands

  63. thoughts of killing oneself

  64. tightness in the chest

  65. tiredness

  66. twitching, twisting, or uncontrolled repetitive movements of the tongue, lips, face, arms, or legs

  67. unconsciousness

  68. unpleasant breath odor

  69. unusual bleeding or bruising

  70. unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness

  71. unusually pale skin

  72. use of extreme physical or emotional force

  73. vomiting of blood

  74. yellow eyes or skin


  1. Decreased appetite



  1. Abnormal dreams

  2. breast enlargement or pain

  3. change in sense of taste

  4. changes in vision

  5. feeling of warmth or heat

  6. flushing or redness of the skin, especially on face and neck

  7. frequent urination

  8. hair loss

  9. increased appetite

  10. increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight

  11. menstrual pain

  12. stomach cramps, gas, or pain

  13. unusual secretion of milk, in females

  14. weight loss

  15. yawning



  1. Cracks in the skin

  2. loss of heat from the body

  3. painful or prolonged erections of the penis

  4. scaly skin

  5. swelling of the breasts or breast soreness in both females and males

  6. unusual milk production





opdivo has 110 before i lost count lol the guy reacting to the commercial amazed at 30

as you may know there can be as many 1 million children misdiagnosed with adhd each year that's a million children who have the potential to suffer from side effects from medication like thoughts of suicide. because lets be real here there almost all drugs cause thoughts of suicide. and the other insane amounts of side effects


ps there is no way to get rid of a misdiagnosis you are branded for life



pharmacuticals are the 4th leading cause of death each year


is it not a terrible coincidence that the word pharmaceutical was created off of the greek pharma words and which means poisoning with drugs and it just happens to be that pharmaceutical is the 4th leading cause of death


in fact over 100 thousands people die from taking there meds

and prescription drugs are more dangerous than illegal drugs






here has been a resent call back of the diabetes medications  farxiga and jardiance because the medicine caused flesh eating of  the genitals and people and had there limbs amputated. if  you or a loved one has taken farxiga and jardiance and had your foot and  hands amputated or  flesh eating of the genitals you may be entitled to a compensation.
i mean this is truly a prescription nightmare flesh eating of the genitals what the hell is that

farxiga has been proven not to work and worked just as good as a placebo
farxiga proven snake oil

fluoride in water

Nazi Germany put fluoride in the drinking water of the Jews to  make them more stupid and docile during ww2.


conspiracy theorist then started  claiming our us government is doing the same to us.

this was proven true when the  us government admitted they put  fluoride in our water. but claim they put it in there to help with dental  hygiene.




pharmaceutical drugs in water

why do i bring this up. in tap water they are putting pharmaceutical drugs in our water and lets be real its not to help us.


3 antibiotics were found in our water

    Chlortetracycline
    Chloramphenicol
    Erythromycin


the side effects from these antibiotics alone should be enough to deter someone from putting these in the water


antibiotics cause osteoporosis so what if someone developed a hunch back because they are putting this in the water.



that is not all they also put these pharmaceutical drugs in the water

    Atenolol (a beta-blocker)
    Carbamazepine (an anticonvulsant)
    Gemfibrozil (an antilipidemic)
    Meprobamate (an antianxiety medication)
    Phenytoin (an anticonvulsant


for the sake of space lets talk about only one of the side effects of these drugs
Atenolol

this drug only has a couple side effects which is surprising

side effects of atenolol.

    Blurred vision
    cold hands or feet
    confusion
    difficult or labored breathing
    dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up from a lying or sitting position suddenly
    shortness of breath
    sweating
    tightness in chest
    unusual tiredness or weakness
    wheezing


    Anxiety
    chest pain or discomfort
    chills
    cold sweats
    cough
    dizziness or lightheadedness
    fainting
    fast heartbeat
    leg pain
    noisy breathing
    slow or irregular heartbeat
    sudden shortness of breath or troubled breathing

    Bloody urine
    decreased frequency or amount of urine
    increased blood pressure
    increased thirst
    loss of appetite
    lower back or side pain
    nausea
    swelling of face, fingers, or lower legs
    vomiting
    weight gain


    Black, tarry stools
    bleeding gums
    blood in urine or stools
    blurred or loss of vision
    bone or joint pain
    disturbed color perception
    double vision
    feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
    feeling that others can hear your thoughts
    feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
    fever
    halos around lights
    night blindness
    overbright appearance of lights
    paleness or cold feeling in fingertips and toes
    pinpoint red or purple spots on skin
    severe mood or mental changes
    skin irritation or rash, including rash that looks like psoriasis
    skin rash, hives, or itching
    sore throat
    swollen or painful glands
    tingling or pain in fingers or toes when exposed to cold
    tunnel vision
    unusual behavior
    unusual bleeding or bruising


    Anxiety
    coma
    cool, pale skin
    depression
    dilated neck veins
    extreme fatigue
    headache
    increased hunger
    irregular breathing
    nervousness
    nightmares
    seizures
    shakiness
    slurred speech
    unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness




what if someone suffer from side effect from the drug Atenolol being put in the water

lets talk about the worst offenders here.
what if someone suffers from
"sudden shortness of breath or troubled breathing"because they added atenolol to the water.


our water can cause us to stop breathing because someone added a pharmaceutical drug to it let that sink in.

what if someone who drinks water suffers from the side effects

    feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
    feeling that others can hear your thoughts
    feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there

because they are adding pharmaceutical drugs to our water





Published:
I would like to mention the title of the debate and the reason why I accepted it. The title is "prescription medication is poison" and I accepted because no prescription medication is not poisonous. It does depend on the instigator's position on life and what is poisonous but as I read it he is talking about something else entirely.

pharmakeai
Pharmakeai is not prescription medication and by him defining the word to be poisonous by definition I would lose but this debate is about prescription medication not pharmakeai.

I will be giving reasons why prescription medication is not poisonous. 
I believe prolonging someone's life is the right thing to do. There are some cases where the harm is greater than the worth of prolonging life but those cases are the exception not the rule.
Prescription medication is one such way in prolonging life. Most common use is to treat an illness which can make life painful or might result in death. A doctor in this day and age prescribes medicine which has a background in what he/she is talking about which gives him/her an idea of what is the best course of action for the individual. When doctors prescribe medication they in their mind with plenty of time spent in their field think that would help you the most. 

I will be now stating flaw with the instigator's arguments.
the world health association uses a snake and staff as there symbol
Even if this was true this does not mean they give poisonous medication. A symbol on a logo does not mean the effect of what is connoted from that symbol will occur with those product they approve or sell. A snake also lays eggs do the members of the WHO do the same? No. This is cherry-picking to suit your narrative which doesn't make any sense. Your argument is that since they have a snake on their logo whatever they associate with would be poisonous. Am I poisonous for having some kind of association with them by defending them? No would be my answer.
why does a drug that helps with depression end up with a side effect that causes depression seems a little counter productive.
. there 120+ side effects let that sink in. 
The problem with this is that most of the side effects are listed as rare meaning it is not common or will happen to every single person who uses Fluoxetine.
opdivo has 110 before i lost count lol the guy reacting to the commercial amazed at 30
This is another cherry-picking. I don't see how by having many side effects makes a product poisonous. This is the 3rd time you are claiming this without very much explanation. If your claim was there are side effect you would be right but you as the person who thinks prescription medication is poisonous must show how side effects are poisonous and likely to occur as well. They simply stated side effects not what is likely to occur.
as you may know there can be as many 1 million children misdiagnosed with adhd each year that's a million children who have the potential to suffer from side effects from medication like thoughts of suicide. because lets be real here there almost all drugs cause thoughts of suicide. and the other insane amounts of side effects 
Even your own source disagrees with you. It states "potentially" not "know". Which means whatever explanation you gave based on that premise would be false because the premise is false.
ps there is no way to get rid of a misdiagnosis you are branded for life
Are you making the claim when you are misdiagnosed the doctor will not rectify it? Even if I give you this it does help your side. This debate is not about misdiagnosis.
pharmacuticals are the 4th leading cause of death each year
I have data which in 2014 states 75 percent of deaths can be attributed to 10 causes. 1) Heart disease 2) Cancer 3) Chronic lower respiratory disease 4) Accidents 5) Stroke 6) Alzheimer's disease 7) Diabetes 8) Influenza and pneumonia 9) Kidney disease 10) Suicide. None of these say due to pharmaceuticals and mine is a more reputable source of information which is Medical News Today
is it not a terrible coincidence that the word pharmaceutical was created off of the greek pharma words and which means poisoning with drugs and it just happens to be that pharmaceutical is the 4th leading cause of death 
Either you are saying Greek people have a tendency of being poisonous or you simply have no point and are plucking at straw. I will be going with the straws one because the other one is an extra-ordinary which you haven't backed up with evidence instead the dictionary definition. 
in fact over 100 thousands people die from taking there meds
You are basically making claims and stating an accusation as if you have the evidence to support such a claim.
The page was not found therefore you made a claim without evidence.
Pharma corruption not pharma. It says it in the title. Corruption was the problem not the pharmaceutical industry. You could have said the system in place is definetely prone to corruption and a likely outcome as well but you didn't.
look at the millions big pharma has given to politicians
Taking money out of politics is a good thing. Still does not say how prescription medication is poisonous. 
here has been a resent call back of the diabetes medications  farxiga and jardiance because the medicine caused flesh eating of  the genitals and people and had there limbs amputated. if  you or a loved one has taken farxiga and jardiance and had your foot and  hands amputated or  flesh eating of the genitals you may be entitled to a compensation.
i mean this is truly a prescription nightmare flesh eating of the genitals what the hell is that
Your link did not work so I can't verify this to be true.
farxiga has been proven not to work and worked just as good as a placebo
farxiga proven snake oil
Even if you are correct this is only one drug of many so you have only stated one drug to be poisonous not prescriptive medicine as a whole.
fluoride in water

Nazi Germany put fluoride in the drinking water of the Jews to  make them more stupid and docile during ww2.


conspiracy theorist then started  claiming our us government is doing the same to us.

this was proven true when the  us government admitted they put  fluoride in our water. but claim they put it in there to help with dental  hygiene.



Your claim about fluoride being harmful is incorrect if it has a small concentration. https://healthcare.utah.edu/the-scope/shows.php?shows=0_q8ha0ke0
Don't see why you compared it to Nazi Germany so I will dismiss that.
pharmaceutical drugs in water

why do i bring this up. in tap water they are putting pharmaceutical drugs in our water and lets be real its not to help us.
Even if this was true there is still plenty of other drugs that you have yet to say are harmful. 
3 antibiotics were found in our water

    Chlortetracycline
    Chloramphenicol
    Erythromycin


the side effects from these antibiotics alone should be enough to deter someone from putting these in the water


antibiotics cause osteoporosis so what if someone developed a hunch back because they are putting this in the water.
What if? So basically if this is in water the osteoporosis does happen often many people should have a hunched back. You have failed to provide examples of hunchback people who drank this water to become like they are. Even then you can't blame this on all pharmaceuticals.
for the sake of space lets talk about only one of the side effects of these drugs
Atenolol

this drug only has a couple side effects which is surprising
Atenolol is used to treat high blood pressure. That would be more of an issue than those side effects.

All his arguments boil down to cherry-picking data to suit his narrative. He barely put an explanation to his claims so I am left with what I got. 
Round 2
Published:
im a herbalist i eat many strange plants most of these plants would interact with the medication from tap water. luckily i on my own well but still its pretty scary that i can die from just drinking water


and secondly pharmakeai and pharmakon do have meaning today we derive our pharma words  from them. why would they do this.



etomology online dictionary says pharmacy came from pharmakeai




if you look at yourdictionary.COM you get under origins
https://www.yourdictionary.com/pharmaceutical

Origin of pharmaceutical
Late Latin pharmaceuticus from Classical Greek pharmakeutikos from pharmakeuein, to practice witchcraft, use medicine from pharmakon, a poison, medicine











if you look at the Merriam Webster dictionary
if you scroll down far enough you get this
 




and why would they put drugs in the water an 70 year old family member use to take atenolol so do you think it is safe to take other people medicine


since there no way that 25 medications would be put in the waters of America to help people it must be put in there to hurt people. i mean who puts estrogen from birth control pills in almost every well in America. how would the estrogen from birth control pills hep people. it can't thus it was put in there to hurt people

REbuttal






con said


this drug only has a couple side effects which is surprising
Atenolol is used to treat high blood pressure. That would be more of an issue than those side effects.


All his arguments boil down to cherry-picking data to suit his narrative. He barely put an explanation to his claims so I am left with what I got. 
Round 2






firstly if someone has low blood pressure this would be dangerous.  secondly you cut off the side effects and then say the benefits out way the cost.


so is having good blood pressure better than


    feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
    feeling that others can hear your thoughts
    feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there


plus there  another 77 side effects to this drug i like how you cut this out
lets be real here it not worth the risk


and me cherry picking trust me bud you do not want me to go into the other side effects of the 25 different drugs in the water supply
i can not list the side effects of 25 different drugs,




there are estrogen from birth control pills which have been linked to many cancers

con said

You are basically making claims and stating an accusation as if you have the evidence to support such a claim.

i do have evidence


Pharma corruption not pharma. It says it in the title. Corruption was the problem not the pharmaceutical industry. You could have said the system in place is definitely prone to corruption and a likely outcome as well but you didn't.


alright big pharma doing illegal things caused the opioid epidemic. that is just as bad. and the system in place even if we put i a better system these people seem to have one thin on there mind money

last post
here has been a resent call back of the diabetes medications  farxiga and jardiance because the medicine caused flesh eating of  the genitals and people and had there limbs amputated. if  you or a loved one has taken farxiga and jardiance and had your foot and  hands amputated or  flesh eating of the genitals you may be entitled to a compensation.
i mean this is truly a prescription nightmare flesh eating of the genitals what the hell is that
Your link did not work so I can't verify this to be true.
farxiga has been proven not to work and worked just as good as a placebo
farxiga proven snake oil

Even if you are correct this is only one drug of many so you have only stated one drug to be poisonous not prescriptive medicine as a whole.


firstly that link does work and its but one of many scandals.

last post

the side effects from these antibiotics alone should be enough to deter someone from putting these in the water


antibiotics cause osteoporosis so what if someone developed a hunch back because they are putting this in the water.
What if? So basically if this is in water the osteoporosis does happen often many people should have a hunched back. You have failed to provide examples of hunchback people who drank this water to become like they are. Even then you can't blame this on all pharmaceuticals.


firstly if someone got osteoporosis from the tap water. they would never be able to figure out that it was the antibiotics in the water that caused the osteoporosis instead it would be blamed on something like bad posture.
Your claim about fluoride being harmful is incorrect if it has a small concentration. https://healthcare.utah.edu/the-scope/shows.php?shows=0_q8ha0ke0

they go back and forth on this. its like the smoking situation first it is not harmful then its is harmful. its harmful man


fluoride is harmful. but this topic has become a mess


if it was so safe why did germany put it in the water of the jews. and why does puritywater.com sell filters to filter out fluride
con said

The problem with this is that most of the side effects are listed as rare meaning it is not common or will happen to every single person who uses Fluoxetine.

yes your are not bound to get all 120 side effects but you are bound to get a couple of them by the sheer amount of side effects there are.



con said
This is another cherry-picking. I don't see how by having many side effects makes a product poisonous. This is the 3rd time you are claiming this without very much explanation. If your claim was there are side effect you would be right but you as the person who thinks prescription medication is poisonous must show how side effects are poisonous and likely to occur as well. They simply stated side effects not what is likely to occur.


firstly these side effects have noting to do with what they are treating. so i take an antibiotic to kill germs and somehow my spine bends that has nothing to do with the disease im treating. that's like if i washed my hands with soap and the soap caused the bones in my feat to crack.


as you may know there can be as many 1 million children misdiagnosed with adhd each year that's a million children who have the potential to suffer from side effects from medication like thoughts of suicide. because lets be real here there almost all drugs cause thoughts of suicide. and the other insane amounts of side effects 
Even your own source disagrees with you. It states "potentially" not "know". Which means whatever explanation you gave based on that premise would be false because the premise is false.


i said there could be as many. which means there are almost 1 million possible misdiagnosis of adhd. do you now how many children use i can not pay attention in class as an excuse. and the dumb parents and teacher solution is to drug them up


con said
Are you making the claim when you are misdiagnosed the doctor will not rectify it? Even if I give you this it does help your side. This debate is not about misdiagnosis.

yes i am

last post
is it not a terrible coincidence that the word pharmaceutical was created off of the greek pharma words and which means poisoning with drugs and it just happens to be that pharmaceutical is the 4th leading cause of death 
Either you are saying Greek people have a tendency of being poisonous or you simply have no point and are plucking at straw. I will be going with the straws one because the other one is an extra-ordinary which you haven't backed up with evidence instead the dictionary definition. 


no im saying if you look under the origins of a word it will show you that the word pharmaceutical was derived from pharmakon and pharmakon means poisioning with drugs and pharmaceutical just happens to be the number 4 killer in America


con said
I have data which in 2014 states 75 percent of deaths can be attributed to 10 causes. 1) Heart disease 2) Cancer 3) Chronic lower respiratory disease 4) Accidents 5) Stroke 6) Alzheimer's disease 7) Diabetes 8) Influenza and pneumonia 9) Kidney disease 10) Suicide. None of these say due to pharmaceuticals and mine is a more reputable source of information which is Medical News Today


this is talking about people dieing from a disease while big pharma is treating them. what i was saying the number 4thh reason people die is because of pharmaceutical not from a disease while there treating them them.

con said the link did not work. ok hereyou go prescription drugs more dangerouse than illegal ones

con said
Even if this was true there is still plenty of other drugs that you have yet to say are harmful



i can not list all 25 since that would take forever but because you insist

carbamazepine side effects

its common side effects does some pretty weird stuff with the eyes
  • Blurred vision or double vision
  • continuous back-and-forth eye movements
it to can cause yellow sin and eyes



Gemfibrozil Side Effects



pharmacutical drugs in water
Published:
im a herbalist i eat many strange plants most of these plants would interact with the medication from tap water. luckily i on my own well but still its pretty scary that i can die from just drinking water

Non-sequitur. This debate is not about anecdotes or something that you do wherever. It is about whether prescription medicine is poison. This does not even talk about it. 
and secondly pharmakeai and pharmakon do have meaning today we derive our pharma words  from them. why would they do this.
So since they are read similar or look similar now they are the same word? No both have different definitions therefore are different words. There are more ways words can be different but this is only thing I need to state in order it to be different.
pharmakos: a poisoner, sorcerer, magician
prescription drug (also prescription medication or prescription medicine) is a pharmaceutical drug that legally requires a medical prescription to be dispensed
etomology online dictionary says pharmacy came from pharmakeai
As you can see from the definition the word means a different thing. It is originated from that word but it doesn't mean the same word.
if you look at yourdictionary.COM you get under origins
Origin doesn't mean the word still means the same. You haven't bridged that gap.
and why would they put drugs in the water an 70 year old family member use to take atenolol so do you think it is safe to take other people medicine
Evidence and is this a representation of the every-single prescription medicine? 
since there no way that 25 medications would be put in the waters of America to help people it must be put in there to hurt people. i mean who puts estrogen from birth control pills in almost every well in America. how would the estrogen from birth control pills hep people. it can't thus it was put in there to hurt people
I am going to say the same thing again: Evidence and is this a representation of the every-single prescription medicine?
firstly if someone has low blood pressure this would be dangerous.  secondly you cut off the side effects and then say the benefits out way the cost.
Drugs have side effects that do not always occur. 
and me cherry picking trust me bud you do not want me to go into the other side effects of the 25 different drugs in the water supply
i can not list the side effects of 25 different drugs, 
In order for you to actually win you would have to find testimonies or evidence of corporate leaders of prescription medicine stating this to be the case.
there are estrogen from birth control pills which have been linked to many cancers
Still does not help your case.
alright big pharma doing illegal things caused the opioid epidemic. that is just as bad. and the system in place even if we put i a better system these people seem to have one thin on there mind money
So it is the system at fault not the prescription medicine itself? So why is this debate not title the pharma industry is ruining prescription medicine?
firstly that link does work and its but one of many scandals.
You would have to show it to be deliberate or a testimony of them doing it on purpose.
fluoride is harmful. but this topic has become a mess
That was your fault for not clearly laying out what way this debate should go.
if it was so safe why did germany put it in the water of the jews. and why does puritywater.com sell filters to filter out fluride
con said

The problem with this is that most of the side effects are listed as rare meaning it is not common or will happen to every single person who uses Fluoxetine.

yes your are not bound to get all 120 side effects but you are bound to get a couple of them by the sheer amount of side effects there are.
Why is this now about Nazi Germany? Aren't we supposed to be talking about present prescription medicine?
firstly these side effects have noting to do with what they are treating. so i take an antibiotic to kill germs and somehow my spine bends that has nothing to do with the disease im treating. that's like if i washed my hands with soap and the soap caused the bones in my feat to crack.
Anecdotes so I don't see how this supports your side.
i said there could be as many. which means there are almost 1 million possible misdiagnosis of adhd. do you now how many children use i can not pay attention in class as an excuse. and the dumb parents and teacher solution is to drug them up
If this was true you would have a source to provide evidence for your claim.
Not the point of the debate since a misdiagnosis doesn't mean prescription medicine is poisonous.
no im saying if you look under the origins of a word it will show you that the word pharmaceutical was derived from pharmakon and pharmakon means poisioning with drugs and pharmaceutical just happens to be the number 4 killer in America
Origin of the word and how many deaths occur is not a reasonable link to be made. For one an origin of a word does not cause so your entire point does not help your side if you are creating a link based on that.
this is talking about people dieing from a disease while big pharma is treating them. what i was saying the number 4thh reason people die is because of pharmaceutical not from a disease while there treating them them.
Pharma is not prescription medicine so another case I found you are missing the point of the debate.
con said the link did not work. ok hereyou go prescription drugs more dangerouse than illegal ones
It states smoking to be a legal drug. The thing is it is not prescriptive medicine which means this point is a non-sequitur because a doctor does give you a cigarette to treat an illness you have.
i can not list all 25 since that would take forever but because you insist
I would rather have testimonies of the people in-charge if they are doing this purposefully. 
Round 3
Forfeited
Published:
The instigator forfeited so I have nothing to respond to. 
Added:
--> @Speedrace
Yeah. It didn’t slow my reading of the debate down.
#19
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
You can understand that?
#18
Added:
--> @Speedrace
If I have no problems reading and understanding what someone says, I mostly won’t award grammar. If someone’s grammar and sentence structure prevent me from reading the debate easily - that’s when I will award grammar points.
#17
Added:
--> @Ramshutu, @oromagi
How did neither of you give Con grammar??
#16
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
We are aware of the issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
#15
Added:
--> @Virtuoso, @bsh1, @TheRealNihilist
“Wrick-It-Ralph copied your vote is that allowed?”
That would be a big no.
(tagging the moderators as I can no longer report the vote)
#14
Added:
--> @Ramshutu, @Wrick-It-Ralph
Wrick-It-Ralph copied your vote is that allowed?
Contender
#13
Added:
--> @oromagi
Thanks for the vote.
Contender
#12
Added:
--> @crossed
You shouldn't really do that.
You should also remove the gaps in your arguments. That list was unnecessary as well.
Contender
#11
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
2 days i have a habit of typing my stuff last minutes. i forfeited on 4 debates some not even on this site
Instigator
#10
Added:
--> @crossed
For 3 days?
Contender
#9
Added:
my internet died
Instigator
#8
Added:
--> @RationalMadman
alright
Instigator
#7
Added:
--> @crossed
Actually that isn't what I meant. I meant these definitions:
"Poison: Any substance that can cause severe organ damage or death if ingested, breathed in, injected into the body or absorbed through the skin. Many substances that normally cause no problems, including water and most vitamins, can be poisonous if taken in excessive quantity. Poison treatment depends on the 'substance."
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11890
"1.0 A substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
1.1 Chemistry A substance that reduces the activity of a catalyst."
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/poison
The capacity to do such harm in any quantity inherently allows you to define it as poisonous, at least in severely likely potential of any single side effect of any and all medicines.
#6
Added:
--> @Virtuoso
and RationalMadman
i see what you mean
A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
n.
Something destructive or fatal.
n.
Chemistry & Physics A substance that inhibits another substance or a reaction: a catalyst poison.
https://ahdictionary.com/
alright what i mean for poison.and the made up definition i would use for the debate.

a harmful substances intended for harm. something meant to harm someone.
its funny that you speak of water my last argument in my other prescription medication debate goes into that. "by goes into that" i mean that the government has been putting pharmaceutical drugs and fluoride in tap water
Instigator
#5
#3
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Pro forfeits one round, and offers a huge wall of text with a massive gish Gallup of claims that cannot all be addressed by con no matter how good he was.
As a result: Conduct to con.
The wall of text approach from pro is so absurd and so antithetical to debate, its hard for me to really render a cohesive verdict on every point he makes.
My interpretation of the resolution and how a reasonable person would view it, is that prescription medication is not just potentially harmful (which is trivial), but the harm is a primary usage and characteristic.
Pro focuses on side effects, that medication can kill, that the word itself has connotations of poison - but at no point attempts to present any argument that the primary characteristic and usage of medication is to cause harm.
Con nails pro to the wall by pointing out the cherry picking pro does by fixating only on specific cases, by pointing out that side effects do not always occur, and they simply may.
He argues that definition of the old word upon which pharmaceutical is based does not make it poison, nor does the companies being corrupt, and a few others. Con goes through the primary claims very well, and with far more patience then I would have expected.
Pros response was another wall of text. So badly formatted it was hard to determine where his additional claims start and rebuttals begin.
Pro offers little or no argument about the rarity of side effects, that drugs are not the top 4 causes of death (other than to clairfy), that pharma corruption is just as bad as pharm being poison - which may be true, but is irrelevant to the resolution. And to reiterate his issue with side effects.
Cons final argument round points this all out, that pros position is a collection of anecdotes, that being potentially harmful in some cases doesn’t mean it’s poison, and reiterating his case about side effects.
As a result, despite the near indecipherable mess that was pros argument - con clearly casts sufficient doubt on the resolution, and clearly refuted the bulk of claims.
Arguments to con.
All other points tied.
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Pro forfeits one round, and offers a huge wall of text with a massive gish Gallup of claims that cannot all be addressed by con no matter how good he was.
As a result: Conduct to con.
The wall of text approach from pro is so absurd and so antithetical to debate, its hard for me to really render a cohesive verdict on every point he makes.
My interpretation of the resolution and how a reasonable person would view it, is that prescription medication is not just potentially harmful (which is trivial), but the harm is a primary usage and characteristic.
Pro focuses on side effects, that medication can kill, that the word itself has connotations of poison - but at no point attempts to present any argument that the primary characteristic and usage of medication is to cause harm.
Con nails pro to the wall by pointing out the cherry picking pro does by fixating only on specific cases, by pointing out that side effects do not always occur, and they simply may.
He argues that definition of the old word upon which pharmaceutical is based does not make it poison, nor does the companies being corrupt, and a few others. Con goes through the primary claims very well, and with far more patience then I would have expected.
Pros response was another wall of text. So badly formatted it was hard to determine where his additional claims start and rebuttals begin.
Pro offers little or no argument about the rarity of side effects, that drugs are not the top 4 causes of death (other than to clairfy), that pharma corruption is just as bad as pharm being poison - which may be true, but is irrelevant to the resolution. And to reiterate his issue with side effects.
Cons final argument round points this all out, that pros position is a collection of anecdotes, that being potentially harmful in some cases doesn’t mean it’s poison, and reiterating his case about side effects.
As a result, despite the near indecipherable mess that was pros argument - con clearly casts sufficient doubt on the resolution, and clearly refuted the bulk of claims.
Arguments to con.
All other points tied.
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Pro's thesis is generally accepted, verging on tautological. All pills are poison beyond some determinable dose. Pro ought to be able to lay down a few solid proofs and win the day but Pro's argument is too schizophrenic to persuade.
Pro argues:
1. Medicine is evil sorcery. (warranted only be one possible translation of ancient Greek)
2. Drugs have many side effects, over-warranted by long lists, more than 100 side effects in the first set with many repetitions and eccentric numbering. Pro's penchant for overlisting impairs this debates readability overall.
3. Perhaps 20% of ADHD children are misdiagnosed according to one study. This is Pro's most dependable sourcing but the fact is never linked to support for thesis. Pro states that 1 million children each year but that's not in the source and obviously false.
4. Pharmaceuticals (Pro desperately needs to define this term, drugs, poison, etc.) are the 4th leading cause of death in the US. This is false- perhaps Pro meant 4th leading means of suicide?
5. Over 100,000 people die from prescription drugs (over all? not a very impressive statistic. Annually? False. Total 2017 US deaths by legal and illegal drugs is 70,237.
6. Prescription drugs are more dangerous than illegal drugs. False, most injury due to prescription drugs come from unprescribed (therefore illegal) use.
7 The US Govt. puts fluoride in water to make Americans stupid and docile. Not linked to thesis. Not warranted. The US Govt does endorse fluoridation but almost all american tap water is managed locally. Fluoride in bottled water is not regulated but most bottled water originates from public sources.
8. "They" put pharmaceutical drugs in tap water. Another long list of drugs and side effects.
9. Drugs in water can cause us to stop breathing (unwarranted)
10. Drugs in water can cause paranoia, psychosis (unwarranted unless this debate is meant to serve as evidence).
Con effectively points out false data, unwarranted claims, failed links to thesis. I think Con would have been better off talking about dosing (he does a little with fluoride) and pushing BoP at Pro. Most substances are poisonous beyond some limit when ingested, most substances are quite safe below some determinable limit. Most of this debate is meaningless without essential quantification.
R2 is less fathomable. Quotes from R1 are not well delineated from other text. Pro doubles down on false mortality claims without evidence. The weakness of Con's reasoning and evidence is frequently reinforced:
" i eat many strange plants most of these plants would interact with the medication from tap water."
"since there no way that 25 medications would be put in the waters of America to help people it must be put in there to hurt people"
"if [fluoride] was so safe why did germany put it in the water of the jews."
"do you now how many children use i can not pay attention in class as an excuse. and the dumb parents and teacher solution is to drug them up"
Con counters point by point without really offering a counter-thesis but the debate is so disorganized I think this forgivable.
Pro forfeits R3 which is probably just as well.
Pro never assembled a cohesive argument, Con gave us plenty of good piecemeal reasons to doubt Pro's claims. Arguments to Con.
Pro sources were fair in the first round, much worse in the second. The string of anti-fluoride pseudoscience blogs was particularly odious. Con only used a couple of sources, both fine.
Conduct to Con for Pro's forfeit.