Instigator / Pro
Points: 4

Anime Debate | The Boruto hate needs to stop. It's a good series.

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 1 vote the winner is ...
Athias
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
TV
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender / Con
Points: 7
Description
I would prefer my opponent be someone who is apart of the Boruto hate train and is at the same time up to date on Boruto, since there are tons of people who still complain about it over 100 episodes in.
My side will be explaining the Boruto: Naruto Next Generations is a good series and it should not receive all the hate it unfortunately gets.
My opponent's side will be to lay out a compelling argument about Boruto: Naruto Next Generations being a bad series. The person who accepts the debate could qualify as "It's okay, but not that good" or something like that but preferably someone who just hates the series overall. The more hate you have over it, the more compelling your arguments will be.
**For anyone who hasn't seen Boruto, this debate MAY contain spoilers. So read at your own risk**
If this does have spoilers, it could be minor ones.
The best of luck to my opponent.
Round 1
Published:
Thanks for accepting, Athias. An honor to debate with you. 

I will use the first half of my argument for R1 and use the second half of my argument in R2, I don't like putting something so overwhelming and long in the opening round. R2 will also include my rebuttals to your opening arguments of course. Afterwards, we will go from there. Rest of the rounds are rebuttals/arguments and final round will be closing arguments. Good luck. 

Introduction

I must say this for the people who are still complaining over 100 episodes in.
Before I continue, let's acknowledge that the Boruto series will never reach the epicness and greatness of Naruto/Naruto Shippuden. I will refrain from spoiling since there may be people viewing this debate who are unfamiliar with Boruto. For people who haven't watched, please don't listen to other people's negative comments about it. Watch it yourself and see how you like it. Don't let other people decide for you. Plus, some people complain just because others complain. They want to just ride the hate train. Boruto does start off a bit slow, which is good because of build up. Farther into the series, the better it gets. At the moment, this series is very good. People must realize this isn't about Naruto, it's about Boruto. At least Naruto is in the show. It feels good seeing him as an adult and him achieving his dream and protecting the village. It's also awesome seeing all the original characters being adults and with their children and taking care of them.

Perspective

It's just all about perspective. This series will not be just like Naruto. Boruto grew up differently than Naruto, Boruto had everything right off the bat, as in friends and both parents. He's bratty but it's for a reason, he just wanted attention from his father since he is never home. Again, Boruto and Naruto grew up differently, Naruto had no one. So of course one would be more drawn to the underdog who went through depressing situations. I admit I didn't like Boruto (the character) at first but he's grown on me. It's a new generation and it's actually relatable to the new generation in the real world. There are actually great moments/family moments. I'm not saying Boruto is the perfect series. Yes there are flaws with this series just like any other, but this series isn't horrible, it has good moments. Give Boruto a break. People expect this to be tip top perfection. Yet people give shows like One piece a pass when it has a handful of flaws, and I absolutely love One piece, I'm just speaking the truth.

Await a response. 

Published:
Opening Argument

It's important to note that we can't talk about Boruto without first mentioning the series which it essentially continues: Naruto. Boruto's entire title is Boruto: Naruto Next Generations. Boruto is essentially a revamp of Naruto. And given the complete and utter letdown the Naruto series was, it would be prudent to sustain the same expectations for Boruto, despite its having a different author. Boruto's currently coasting on the popularity and nostalgia of Naruto, relying more so on gimmicks (i.e. ninja technology, and Boruto's "Jogan," rather than a fresh and original plot.) Furthemore, Boruto is rather spoiled and lacks the underdog demeanor of his own father, which initially made Naruto the series compelling. Boruto also lacks nuance in that the good characters are good and the bad characters are bad. Naruto was great at demonstrating nuance among its villains (i.e. Zabuza and Pain.) Lastly, Since Nruto continues to summon megazord (kyuubi-mode) in Boruto, and receives a lot more screen time than he should, it's at least clear that the series is less about Boruto, and more about giving Naruto another 15 minutes in the limelight. Boruto deserves all the criticism it gets.
Round 2
Published:
Rebuttals

It's important to note that we can't talk about Boruto without first mentioning the series which it essentially continues: Naruto. Boruto's entire title is Boruto: Naruto Next Generations. Boruto is essentially a revamp of Naruto.
Of course Boruto: Naruto Next Generations has Naruto's branding but at the same time it must be understood that the story is about a completely different character: Boruto. The story will not be exactly like Naruto. Already addressed this in "Perspective" point. 1. New generation. 2. Boruto grew up differently than Naruto. 

And given the complete and utter letdown the Naruto series was, it would be prudent to sustain the same expectations for Boruto.
I don't understand how Naruto series was a complete and utter letdown. Nevertheless, everyone has their own opinions. I'll refrain from saying how Naruto wasn't a letdown, I will strictly focus on Boruto. I think we can all agree that Naruto is a very important series in the anime community. The point I am making is that many fans who loved Naruto, grew up with Naruto are disappointed how Boruto "turned out", since both series of course are very different. Like I said in my first point "Let's acknowledge that the Boruto series will never reach the epicness and greatness of Naruto/Naruto Shippuden." I think you can agree to that. 

 Boruto's currently coasting on the popularity and nostalgia of Naruto, relying more so on gimmicks (i.e. ninja technology, and Boruto's "Jogan," rather than a fresh and original plot.) 
I don't understand how those are gimmicks. It would make sense that ninja technology is now prevalent since back in the Naruto days, there was no technology. There are now TV's, computers, telephones where Kages can contact each other (rather than carrier pigeons, which I love and miss) and the leaf village becoming more urban and city like. Makes sense because the real world is the same way, technology has and will continue to become more and more advanced. As for Boruto's "Jogan", I like it. I'm sure it will make him strong and it also shows uniqueness. It's actually pretty cool. I haven't come across too many people who disliked the Jogan. By calling that a gimmick, I assume you're saying the Jogan is overpowered. Can't really talk about that too much since the 9 tailed fox is pretty powerful and some people see it as overpowered and an ass-pull. 

Furthemore, Boruto is rather spoiled and lacks the underdog demeanor of his own father, which initially made Naruto the series compelling. 
Addressed this in "Perspective" point. Yes, Boruto is spoiled for his own reasons and yes he's no underdog. Boruto and Naruto are two different people. I'm pretty sure if Boruto had the exact same story line and if it was just like Naruto, people would still hate it and complain. Unfortunately, this series never gets a break. 

Lastly, Since Nruto continues to summon megazord (kyuubi-mode) in Boruto, and receives a lot more screen time than he should, it's at least clear that the series is less about Boruto, and more about giving Naruto another 15 minutes in the limelight. Boruto deserves all the criticism it gets. 
1. Boruto has more screen time than Naruto. The series is about Boruto. I don't understand how Naruto appearing makes it less about Boruto. That's his dad. That's like saying in the case for Naruto series, "The series is less about Naruto because Tsunade has a lot of screen time"
2. Is Naruto not supposed to have any screen time? He's the Hokage. Him using kyubi mode doesn't equate to the series being more about him. It means that Naruto is fighting the villains off and protecting the village. 
3. "receives a lot more screen time than he should" - Most people watch Boruto because of Naruto. Wouldn't you enjoy seeing Naruto? Seems that you don't, from that statement. 
4. I can understand how you think Naruto is getting in the limelight, but that's simply not the case. Boruto's dad is the Hokage, so obviously he will be in the show from time to time. It feels good even seeing Naruto. 
5. Boruto does not deserve all the criticism it gets. I will explain how in my next argument. 

Argument | Please rebuttal my argument below as well as above rebuttals.

Just drop it

Funny how in episode 65 of Boruto, all the hate disappeared and afterwards, the complaints came back. It's over 100 episodes now, if you're still complaining then that's insane. Just drop the series. If you're watching that many episodes and complaining that you don't like the series then you're just wasting your time. Watching anime should be an enjoyable ride, not a chore. People's expectations are too high for this series. This is a new generation. Everything isn't as raw and gritty as it was for the Naruto series. Understand that the story is centered around Boruto, not Naruto. People are expecting this to be just as spectacular as Naruto. Yeah the fights aren't as good as the Naruto fights but still, there are other things that make Boruto good. If you're a true Naruto fan like myself you wouldn't really care either way. I'm just watching because I'm a die hard Naruto fan, many questions I want answered and also waiting for that epic moment that was foreshadowed in the beginning of episode 1.

Other series

If there was a series about Ichigo's son or Luffy's son, people will feel the same way and wouldn't like it because it's different from Bleach or One piece. At the end of the day it's a different show. There is a Youtuber that does Boruto reactions and he absolutely loves Boruto and he sees nothing wrong with it. He also of course acknowledges that it's definitely not better than Naruto. With people seeing other people's perspective on it who watch his reactions, they appreciate Boruto more. There's even comments saying so. The people who used to hate it and complain about it actually like it now.

Next round will consist of my last brief argument + rebuttals, following conclusion in last round. Await a response. 


Published:
Rebuttal

Of course Boruto: Naruto Next Generations has Naruto's branding but at the same time it must be understood that the story is about a completely different character: Boruto. The story will not be exactly like Naruto. Already addressed this in "Perspective" point. 1. New generation. 2. Boruto grew up differently than Naruto. 

Except it isn't about a "completely different" character. Boruto looks almost exactly like Naruto, when the latter was a child. The series starts off with Boruto committing the same pranks Naruto did when the latter was child. The titular character's name is Boruto which is conveniently similar to Naruto. Boruto is neither an original nor a standalone series. It's a revamping of Naruto.


I don't understand how Naruto series was a complete and utter letdown.

Naruto was a complete and utter letdown because the culmination of the overarching conflict namely between the titular character and his best friend/enemy was resolved with a battle of the megazords. Not to mention, any doubt that the characters may actually face mortal peril was resolved with Deus Ex Machina in the inexplicable appearance of the sage of six paths to grant only Naruto and Sasuke the capacity to defeat his mother--an already nonsensical an inexplicable plot device.


Nevertheless, everyone has their own opinions.
Then why are we debating? Why does the hate "need to stop"?

I think we can all agree that Naruto is a very important series in the anime community.
No, I don't agree to that. Naruto is the Japanese Harry Potter, which was heavenly influenced, and the author will admit to this, by the themes of Dragon Ball Z. One can argue that Dragon Ball Z was important since it was a pioneer of many modern anime themes, but Naruto not so much. In my opinion there are better anime focusing on the ninja, i.e. Ninja Scroll and Basilisk.

Like I said in my first point "Let's acknowledge that the Boruto series will never reach the epicness and greatness of Naruto/Naruto Shippuden." I think you can agree to that. 

I'll concede that there were epic moments; but the series itself wasn't epic.

I don't understand how those are gimmicks. It would make sense that ninja technology is now prevalent since back in the Naruto days, there was no technology. There are now TV's, computers, telephones where Kages can contact each other (rather than carrier pigeons, which I love and miss) and the leaf village becoming more urban and city like. Makes sense because the real world is the same way, technology has and will continue to become more and more advanced.
How does that make any sense? Naruto is essentially an anime about ninja conflict in feudal japan. How is it that in just a ten year span, they have televisions, computers, and telephones, let alone devices which can easily reproduce ninjutsu which takes a ninja years to learn? No, I'm pretty sure those are just gimmicks to leave the Boruto audience the impression of a future which shouldn't be much different. It's completely anachronistic.

As for Boruto's "Jogan", I like it. I'm sure it will make him strong and it also shows uniqueness. It's actually pretty cool. I haven't come across too many people who disliked the Jogan. By calling that a gimmick, I assume you're saying the Jogan is overpowered. Can't really talk about that too much since the 9 tailed fox is pretty powerful and some people see it as overpowered and an ass-pull. 
You've just explained the reason it's a gimmick. Especially given that the time gap between Boruto and Naruto shippuden is only ten years, it's quite convenient that he develops a unique dojutsu, which had not been mentioned or discovered ten years prior. And for the sake of fact, I never stated that I "disliked" it. I characterized it only as a gimmick.


Addressed this in "Perspective" point. Yes, Boruto is spoiled for his own reasons and yes he's no underdog. Boruto and Naruto are two different people. I'm pretty sure if Boruto had the exact same story line and if it was just like Naruto, people would still hate it and complain. Unfortunately, this series never gets a break. 
Yes, if it's all about perspective, then once again: why are we debating? If the resolution to this debate is just, everyone has different perspectives, then what is the point?

1. Boruto has more screen time than Naruto. The series is about Boruto. I don't understand how Naruto appearing makes it less about Boruto. That's his dad. That's like saying in the case for Naruto series, "The series is less about Naruto because Tsunade has a lot of screen time"

I never said that Naruto had more screen time than Boruto; I said that Naruto had more screen time than he should. If the series is truly about Boruto, then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity.

2. Is Naruto not supposed to have any screen time?
Non sequitur. I never said that Naruto shouldn't have any screen time. I said Naruto gets more screen time than he should.

3. "receives a lot more screen time than he should" - Most people watch Boruto because of Naruto. Wouldn't you enjoy seeing Naruto? Seems that you don't, from that statement. 
And this statement here undermine everything you just said previously. The show runners know that people watch Boruto because of Naruto; that's part of my point. Boruto is coasting on the popularity of Naruto.


4. I can understand how you think Naruto is getting in the limelight, but that's simply not the case. Boruto's dad is the Hokage, so obviously he will be in the show from time to time. It feels good even seeing Naruto. 
Non sequitur. If you're going to quote, then read that which I state. Responding with, "well he's going to have some screen time" isn't sufficient. I'm not questioning that he gets screen time. I'm questioning the amount of screen time he gets given that he is not the de jure titular character, despite that being the case de facto.

5. Boruto does not deserve all the criticism it gets. I will explain how in my next argument. 

Argument | Please rebuttal my argument below as well as above rebuttals.

Just drop it

Funny how in episode 65 of Boruto, all the hate disappeared and afterwards, the complaints came back. It's over 100 episodes now, if you're still complaining then that's insane. Just drop the series. If you're watching that many episodes and complaining that you don't like the series then you're just wasting your time. Watching anime should be an enjoyable ride, not a chore. People's expectations are too high for this series. This is a new generation. Everything isn't as raw and gritty as it was for the Naruto series. Understand that the story is centered around Boruto, not Naruto. People are expecting this to be just as spectacular as Naruto. Yeah the fights aren't as good as the Naruto fights but still, there are other things that make Boruto good. If you're a true Naruto fan like myself you wouldn't really care either way. I'm just watching because I'm a die hard Naruto fan, many questions I want answered and also waiting for that epic moment that was foreshadowed in the beginning of episode 1.
Some people may be predisposed to wasting time. Some may just like to complain; none of that however has anything to do with Boruto. Criticisms of Boruto's plot can be sustained whether a person is wasting time or not. The criticism itself isn't that the show should be canceled. The criticism is that show is bad. Whether one drops the series or not doesn't change that.

Other series

If there was a series about Ichigo's son or Luffy's son, people will feel the same way and wouldn't like it because it's different from Bleach or One piece. At the end of the day it's a different show. There is a Youtuber that does Boruto reactions and he absolutely loves Boruto and he sees nothing wrong with it. He also of course acknowledges that it's definitely not better than Naruto. With people seeing other people's perspective on it who watch his reactions, they appreciate Boruto more. There's even comments saying so. The people who used to hate it and complain about it actually like it now.

There's no way to know that since those series don't exist.

On to the next round.



Round 3
Published:
Rebuttals

Except it isn't about a "completely different" character. Boruto looks almost exactly like Naruto, when the latter was a child. The series starts off with Boruto committing the same pranks Naruto did when the latter was child. The titular character's name is Boruto which is conveniently similar to Naruto. Boruto is neither an original nor a standalone series. It's a revamping of Naruto. 
1. It is about a completely different character. Boruto and Naruto are two different people despite them looking damn near the same. Of course Boruto looks like Naruto, that's his father. I see nothing wrong with Boruto's name being in the title just like Naruto's name, but moot point. That's subjective. It's only right that they did that since Naruto's was titular. What's your definition of revamp? I don't really like that word. Plus, the way you are using it looks like you're saying "they are washing and repeating Naruto's story and putting it into Boruto".

Revamp - give new and improved form, structure, or appearance to.

Despite it's definition, it's as if the word doesn't match up with it in my opinion. I'm sure many people wouldn't agree that Boruto is a "new and improved form" of Naruto. I'd rather call Boruto a continuation instead of a revamp. Those two words may mean somewhat the same thing, but continuation sounds more solid. Boruto is technically a standalone series. Boruto is watched last out of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. 

Naruto was a complete and utter letdown because the culmination of the overarching conflict namely between the titular character and his best friend/enemy was resolved with a battle of the megazords. Not to mention, any doubt that the characters may actually face mortal peril was resolved with Deus Ex Machina in the inexplicable appearance of the sage of six paths to grant only Naruto and Sasuke the capacity to defeat his mother--an already nonsensical an inexplicable plot device.
2. I agree with you there. In Naruto part 1 there wasn't really "over-powered scenes" and "look what I could do" but Shippuden has turned that way. I do hate that they made Kaguya the last villain when it should have been Madara in my opinion. 

Then why are we debating? Why does the hate "need to stop"?
3. I'll get to that shortly. Yes, I did say "everyone has their own opinions" which they do, but that does not make it okay to hate the series for unfair reasons. I will explain later on in response in my Argument.

No, I don't agree to that. Naruto is the Japanese Harry Potter, which was heavenly influenced, and the author will admit to this, by the themes of Dragon Ball Z. One can argue that Dragon Ball Z was important since it was a pioneer of many modern anime themes, but Naruto not so much. In my opinion there are better anime focusing on the ninja, i.e. Ninja Scroll and Basilisk. 
4. What I said still stands. Naruto is important in the community and yes I do agree about Dragon Ball Z being a pioneer and that Naruto took it's inspirations from it, just like others shows have done such as One Piece. Ninja Scroll? Interesting. I took a skim through the first episode of that anime a long time ago and the animation looks atrocious. I will stick to the topic of Boruto. 

I'll concede that there were epic moments; but the series itself wasn't epic.
5. Alright. Your opinion. Back to Boruto. 

How does that make any sense? 
6. Because it relates to the real world.

You've just explained the reason it's a gimmick. Especially given that the time gap between Boruto and Naruto shippuden is only ten years, it's quite convenient that he develops a unique dojutsu, which had not been mentioned or discovered ten years prior. And for the sake of fact, I never stated that I "disliked" it. I characterized it only as a gimmick. 
7. Don't see how I explained the reason it's a gimmick. In that case, the nine tailed fox is a gimmick. About the ten year time gap, things happen. Boruto wasn't born ten years prior, or if he was then he was only an infant. The word gimmick for the most part denotes "negative", I doubt you called it "gimmick" as a good thing, you're Con of the debate and you listed reasons of why you disliked Boruto. That's how I came to the conclusion of you disliking Jogan. 

Yes, if it's all about perspective, then once again: why are we debating? If the resolution to this debate is just, everyone has different perspectives, then what is the point?
8. I'm saying Boruto the character has a different perspective than Naruto. Boruto has a different point of view. I'm not talking about everyone watching the series with different perspectives. Re-read my Perspective point in R1 again to understand. I explained it all there. The point I am making is that everyone can't go in watching Boruto with the same perspective they had with Naruto because they are two different characters. You're tying this in with point 3 of "everyone has their own opinions" when perspective and opinion are two different things. I will get to this in my Argument. The resolution will be in my conclusion in the final round.

I never said that Naruto had more screen time than Boruto; I said that Naruto had more screen time than he should. If the series is truly about Boruto, then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity. 
9. That's just how you see it. I think Naruto has perfect amounts of screen time. Even if it's "more than he should" in your eyes, that's invalid. As the Hokage, it doesn't matter how much screen time he gets. He is an important character and he should be shown. 

Non sequitur. I never said that Naruto shouldn't have any screen time. I said Naruto gets more screen time than he should. 
10. Well what do you suggest? Seems you want him to have some screen time but not too much screen time. Which is it? I don't see how that's a bad thing that Naruto, according to you, has more screen time that he should. Before you say "I never said it was a bad thing" you literally said "then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity." when Naruto's popularity can't be helped. 

And this statement here undermine everything you just said previously. The show runners know that people watch Boruto because of Naruto; that's part of my point. Boruto is coasting on the popularity of Naruto. 
11. It's called marketing strategies.

Non sequitur. If you're going to quote, then read that which I state. Responding with, "well he's going to have some screen time" isn't sufficient. I'm not questioning that he gets screen time. I'm questioning the amount of screen time he gets given that he is not the de jure titular character, despite that being the case de facto. 
12. You act as if Naruto is some unimportant side character. He's the Hokage and he's the titular main character's father. 

Some people may be predisposed to wasting time. Some may just like to complain; none of that however has anything to do with Boruto. Criticisms of Boruto's plot can be sustained whether a person is wasting time or not. The criticism itself isn't that the show should be canceled. The criticism is that show is bad. Whether one drops the series or not doesn't change that.
13. Wasting time on Boruto, and complaining on Boruto has something to do with Boruto. There's a difference between honest criticisms and riding the Boruto hate train. Someone with common sense would drop a series that's bad to them especially with over 100 episodes in which is a lot of episodes. 

There's no way to know that since those series don't exist. 
14. Nice response. The classic "There' no way to know that, they don't exist" You said that because you know there was truth to what I was saying. I was speaking hypothetically. One piece is the best selling manga in history as of this year (over 450 million worldwide), and the series has over 800 episodes. The One Piece fandom are one of the most loyal, serious and crazy fan groups of this series and they love it dearly (as do I. I'm not the biggest fan of One piece but I do love it. I'm apart of the Naruto fandom as you can tell). If a series about Luffy's son came out, I highly doubt it will reach the magnitude of One piece nor will people like it as much as One piece, or be fond of it, they would compare it to One piece, and they would complain about it just like how people are about Boruto. 

Argument

Yu Yu Hakusho (YYH) and Hunter x Hunter (HxH) are two anime created by the same creator. YYH came out before HxH. You don't see people complaining on HxH and comparing it with YYH saying "Oh this is nothing like Yu Yu Hakusho" and calling Hunter x Hunter trash. Both of these anime are excellent, I haven't seen YYH but from what people tell me, it's pretty good. I've seen HxH, and it's a masterpiece. With that being said, that's all people are doing with Boruto. 90% of these complaints come from the fact that it's not as good as Naruto and comparing it to Naruto, not because people genuinely think it isn't a good series. (This sentence is for point 3) That's very annoying. People are looking at Boruto through the lens of Naruto (naturally, I understand) but it's just hard for people to grasp that it's a different story. Times have changed, and Boruto didn't grow up like Naruto did. I know what you're going to say, "Boruto series is connected to Naruto, it came after Naruto Shippuden" which is true, yes. Boruto is Naruto's son, and Naruto along with the rest of the characters that we all know and love are still of course in Boruto. So let's treat Naruto/Naruto Shippuden/Boruto as a whole. Now for my next point. Masashi Kishimoto (Creator of Naruto) has made a new series called "Samurai 8" -- which is NOT connected to Naruto. This is in fact a standalone series. 

Samurai 8

A completely new series that Kishimoto created. The manga of it is out, but not the anime yet I don't think. I looked it up and didn't see it so I guess it hasn't aired yet. There's already controversy about this series, everyone is divided and of course it's because everyone is looking at this through the lens of Naruto. "Is this the new Naruto?" "Will this surpass Naruto?" there are videos and images of it everywhere. Highly doubt it will surpass Naruto. The thing is Naruto is so iconic, so with a completely different series out by the same creator, there will be comparisons, speculations and of course opinions (mostly negative). It's people who already hate Samurai 8 when only the first few chapters just came out. It's like this turned into some Boruto 2.0 situation, when this is the start of a brand new series that just came out. I feel like some of the people who are riding the Boruto hate train are switching tracks for Samurai 8. Like I previously mentioned with the Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter example, people never compared those two and gave Hunter x Hunter hell. So the same should not be done with this brand new series. Then again, Naruto series was marvelous and meaningful, so this is to be expected unfortunately.

Kishimoto did quote, “I’ll work as hard as possible to make it even more interesting than the Naruto series!” We shall see.

Sources:
Information on Samurai 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BamlNXihAzg | YouTuber - ForneverWorld. 

Await a response. 
Published:
1. It is about a completely different character. Boruto and Naruto are two different people despite them looking damn near the same.
Really, then explain this:


Hinata then gets a flashback of Naruto doing the same when he was child, explaining the image below. If Boruto was meant to be his own character/person, why would the creator do this?

Of course Boruto looks like Naruto, that's his father.

Not all sons look like their fathers. Himawari is also his child and she looks like a combination of both Hinata and Naruto, but I guess the creators skipped that when it came to Boruto.


I see nothing wrong with Boruto's name being in the title just like Naruto's name, but moot point.

I don't have a problem with Boruto being a titular character. My issue is with his having a name striking similar to his father's, where the first two letters are the only difference.

That's subjective.

Once again, why are we arguing, then?

What's your definition of revamp? I don't really like that word.

an act or instance of restructuring, reordering, or revising something; overhaul:

Plus, the way you are using it looks like you're saying "they are washing and repeating Naruto's story and putting it into Boruto".
That's exactly how I'm using it.

Boruto is technically a standalone series. Boruto is watched last out of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. 
No it isn't. It cannot be both a continuation and a standalone. As i stated earlier, the series is literally titled, "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations."

What I said still stands. Naruto is important in the community
How? What impact has it had on anime other than itself? Closing thing could be Black Clover, but even then, that would derivative of Dragon Ball Z.

Ninja Scroll? Interesting. I took a skim through the first episode of that anime a long time ago and the animation looks atrocious.
Ninja Scroll is a movie.

Alright. Your opinion. Back to Boruto. 

Then why argue? If you're dismiss every opinion by stating the obvious that it's an opinion, then what's the point?

Because it relates to the real world.
And going from transporting scrolls through messengers and birds to computers, and telephones within a ten-year span seems "realistic" to you?

Don't see how I explained the reason it's a gimmick. In that case, the nine tailed fox is a gimmick.
You explained its gimmickry because it's being overpowered and unique to just Boruto. And the nine-tails wasn't a gimmick. The complete nine-tails shroud, i.e. the fox Megazord, was.

I doubt you called it "gimmick" as a good thing, you're Con of the debate and you listed reasons of why you disliked Boruto. That's how I came to the conclusion of you disliking Jogan. 

I dislike the series; I don't necessarily dislike gimmicks. I dislike when the plot relies on them.

Well what do you suggest? Seems you want him to have some screen time but not too much screen time.
Yes.

Which is it?
You answered that already.

I don't see how that's a bad thing that Naruto, according to you, has more screen time that he should. Before you say "I never said it was a bad thing" you literally said "then it needs to end its coasting on Naruto's popularity." when Naruto's popularity can't be helped. 
There was a show that aired in the late nineties to early 2000's titled, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." From that show, a spin-off was created a couple of years later titled, "Angel." Despite "Angel's" story being premised on the "Buffyverse" as they would call it, Buffy appears maybe for two out of the 110 episodes. There are cameos from other characters, but the story focuses almost entirely on Angel and his story, and his redemption. It became its own series and was relatively successful (Buffy went on for seven seasons, Angel went on for five.)

What's my point? Angel didn't need to coast on Buffy's popularity by having her make frequent appearances. It became a popular property all on its own. The reason Naruto appears a lot is that the show is not relying on Boruto's appeal, but instead Naruto's. And that's because Boruto as a character has little appeal outside of his being Naruto's son. Boruto the series in my opinion is more about watching the Konoha 12 (well Neji died, so it's 11) in their adult incarnations, then it is about watching a new story about their children. Dragon Ball Z especially during the Cell Games tried to have the series switched over to Gohan, but it didn't work because not only was Goku's appeal insurmountable, but also Gohan and Kurillin's tag team on Namek didn't fair particularly well. We have to remember, these are shounen anime, meaning that the main characters are always meant to appeal to pre-adolescent and adolescent boys. In this case, Boruto is this era's "Gohan." And no one really wants to watch Gohan; hence the frequent Goku ex Machina.

You act as if Naruto is some unimportant side character. He's the Hokage and he's the titular main character's father. 
Non sequitur. I never stated he was unimportant. I'm stating that he shouldn't be as important as the main character, Boruto. And right now, Naruto is. (It's the only thing keeping the series afloat.)

Wasting time on Boruto, and complaining on Boruto has something to do with Boruto. There's a difference between honest criticisms and riding the Boruto hate train.
Please expand on that which is an honest criticism.

Someone with common sense would drop a series that's bad to them especially with over 100 episodes in which is a lot of episodes. 
Not if a person likes to complain about a bad series. Sometimes one decides to see things through no matter how utter a disappointment it may be.

Nice response. The classic "There' no way to know that, they don't exist" You said that because you know there was truth to what I was saying.
How can there be any "truth" to that which you say if the series of which you speak doesn't exist?

I was speaking hypothetically.

Let's define hypothetically: by imagining a possibility rather than reality; as a hypothesis. Where's this truth of which you speak?

If a series about Luffy's son came out, I highly doubt it will reach the magnitude of One piece nor will people like it as much as One piece, or be fond of it, they would compare it to One piece, and they would complain about it just like how people are about Boruto. 
You don't know this. There's no information as of yet that be can attained which informs the effect of which you speak. So it's not a "truth."

Yu Yu Hakusho (YYH) and Hunter x Hunter (HxH) are two anime created by the same creator. YYH came out before HxH. You don't see people complaining on HxH and comparing it with YYH saying "Oh this is nothing like Yu Yu Hakusho" and calling Hunter x Hunter trash. Both of these anime are excellent, I haven't seen YYH but from what people tell me, it's pretty good.
That's your problem, there. You haven't seen Yu Yu Hakusho. How can you then make an informed comparison? I have seen Yu Yu Hakusho (all 112 episodes and movies.) I've also seen Hunter X Hunter. And the two of them have different stories. Hunter X Hunter isn't a sequel, continuation, or even a spin-off of Yu Yu Hakusho. So why would anyone compare them just because they were created by the same person? The only real similarity between Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter is the main characters' appearances, i.e. Yusuke and Gon. Yu Yu Hakusho has a lot more in common with Bleach than it does with Hunter X Hunter.

I've seen HxH, and it's a masterpiece.

I wouldn't go that far.

With that being said, that's all people are doing with Boruto. 90% of these complaints come from the fact that it's not as good as Naruto and comparing it to Naruto, not because people genuinely think it isn't a good series. (This sentence is for point 3)
The series cannot coast on Naruto, and wish to be separated from it. If it wants to separate itself from Naruto, then it has to take risk and make the Naruto cast relative irrelevant.

People are looking at Boruto through the lens of Naruto (naturally, I understand) but it's just hard for people to grasp that it's a different story.
But it's not. The setting is the same, the characters are identical, and the villains are essentially (despite being different incarnations.) One of things Naruto did in the beginning when introducing the main cast's parents is to show how similar their children were to them. The only difference is that we didn't get to know the parents. We didn't get attached to them. Their inclusion was meant to demonstrate longevity and the passing down of the "will of fire."

Times have changed
That's the only thing that's really changed.



and Boruto didn't grow up like Naruto did. I know what you're going to say, "Boruto series is connected to Naruto, it came after Naruto Shippuden" which is true, yes. Boruto is Naruto's son, and Naruto along with the rest of the characters that we all know and love are still of course in Boruto. So let's treat Naruto/Naruto Shippuden/Boruto as a whole. Now for my next point. Masashi Kishimoto (Creator of Naruto) has made a new series called "Samurai 8" -- which is NOT connected to Naruto. This is in fact a standalone series. 

Once again, the series is titled "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations." They even deal with villains--or some incarnations thereof--of the previous series. So yes, you would have to treat it as a whole because it's essentially the Narutoverse. And why would we focus on Samurai 8? Does it have anything to do with the Naruto/Boruto characters, plot, setting, themes, motifs, etc.?

A completely new series that Kishimoto created. The manga of it is out, but not the anime yet I don't think. I looked it up and didn't see it so I guess it hasn't aired yet. There's already controversy about this series, everyone is divided and of course it's because everyone is looking at this through the lens of Naruto. "Is this the new Naruto?" "Will this surpass Naruto?" there are videos and images of it everywhere. Highly doubt it will surpass Naruto. The thing is Naruto is so iconic, so with a completely different series out by the same creator, there will be comparisons, speculations and of course opinions (mostly negative). It's people who already hate Samurai 8 when only the first few chapters just came out. It's like this turned into some Boruto 2.0 situation, when this is the start of a brand new series that just came out. I feel like some of the people who are riding the Boruto hate train are switching tracks for Samurai 8.

It's not uncommon for readers to compare different works by the same author. But this is usually done in a more abstract context. It's more about the author than it is about the individual series. As I understand it, a different person has taken on Boruto. So your analogy doesn't suffice.

Like I previously mentioned with the Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter example, people never compared those two and gave Hunter x Hunter hell.
Once again, Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter are different series despite being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. If you want to compare them as far as your preference for the author's works, then that's a different story.
Round 4
Published:
Hinata then gets a flashback of Naruto doing the same when he was child, explaining the image below. If Boruto was meant to be his own character/person, why would the creator do this? 

Not all sons look like their fathers. Himawari is also his child and she looks like a combination of both Hinata and Naruto, but I guess the creators skipped that when it came to Boruto. 
1. Boruto wearing Naruto's jacket was just for nostalgia and to show how much they look alike. That doesn't mean he isn't his own person. I look exactly like my father, in fact we're identical. Does that mean that I'm not my own person and that I'm my dad? No. Yes, not all sons look like their fathers but Boruto just happens to look like his.This is anime we're talking about, everything shouldn't be taken so literal. Naruto has strong and distinct features, such as his eye and hair. So of course the creators wanted his son to take after that and especially him being the main character. "Like father like son." Just as Himawari, they wanted her to take from her mother, Hinata. She has her hair, but also taking from Naruto's eyes. What this shows is that Naruto has strong genes for both of his children to take after him a bit more than Hinata. People probably wouldn't like it if Boruto took after some of Hinata's features. For me, it would be a bit weird at first and would take some getting used to. Like you said, not all sons look like their fathers and not all daughters look like their mother and vice versa (which is very true), but would you really think people would love Boruto having Hinata's hair and her eyes? Think about it. 

Once again, why are we arguing, then?
2. Resolution will be in Conclusion.

That's exactly how I'm using it.
3. Figured. I wouldn't exactly call it a wash and repeat since the stories are very different. Yes, there's still ninjas, villains, chunin exams, etc but in Naruto, it was much more gritty, it was a previous generation back then and the way they did things were different. 

No it isn't. It cannot be both a continuation and a standalone. As i stated earlier, the series is literally titled, "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations."
4. With that being the case, Naruto/Naruto Shippuden should not be tarnished or dragged because of Boruto. If you see it that way, alright. If you don't alright. Naruto series has completely ended (story relating to Naruto), the Boruto series doesn't include Naruto's story or Naruto's journey or anything. It's Boruto's story. It's the next generation. They are connected but Boruto is the main character and there's a whole new perspective.

How?
5. A lot of ways, but we won't get to that. I'll stick with Boruto. 

Ninja Scroll is a movie.
6. There's a series version of it, that's what I was referring to. 

Then why argue? If you're dismiss every opinion by stating the obvious that it's an opinion, then what's the point?
7. Your opinion was about Naruto (not Boruto): "I'll concede that there were epic moments; but the series itself wasn't epic." which I didn't care about. That's why I kept it short and said "Your opinion" to continue with the topic. 

And going from transporting scrolls through messengers and birds to computers, and telephones within a ten-year span seems "realistic" to you?
8. Yes because in Boruto, technology advanced and the same thing is happening in the real world. It's much easier to communicate and things are happening faster. I'm not saying saying there are scrolls or messenger pigeons irl are being used, if that's what you were insinuating. 

Boruto the series in my opinion is more about watching the Konoha 12 (well Neji died, so it's 11) in their adult incarnations, then it is about watching a new story about their children.
9. I'd argue that it's about both. The story about their children are actually shown more, you barely even see some of the Konoha 12 (11, RIP Neji) you see some of them on a consistent basis but not all - all the time. 

Please expand on that which is an honest criticism.
10. Criticizing the series because you dislike the series. Not criticizing it by constantly comparing it to Naruto and complaining that it isn't the exact same. Explaining this in Conclusion.

Not if a person likes to complain about a bad series. Sometimes one decides to see things through no matter how utter a disappointment it may be.
11. How unfortunate. Say that Boruto has like 300 episodes (just an example) it'd be a shame for someone to be disappointed after all that and wasted their time. That's on them. Then again, you can't hate the series that bad for it reaching over 100 episodes and counting, that's a lot. Plus there are good moments. I'm unsure if you acknowledge the decent moments at all. If you don't, alright. If you do, cool. 

How can there be any "truth" to that which you say if the series of which you speak doesn't exist?
12. Still your only comeback. "doesn't exist" I bet if I ask any person about the One piece example I just said, they would agree. With Naruto being one of the most selling manga, and with Naruto's son having a series, everyone dislikes it and/or of course doesn't like it as much as Naruto. I'm pretty sure the same would happen with One piece, especially it being the best selling manga of all time right now. Boruto would never reach Naruto's magnitude, and a series about Luffy's son definitely wouldn't reach One piece's magnitude. 

Let's define hypothetically: by imagining a possibility rather than reality; as a hypothesis. Where's this truth of which you speak?
13. I literally imagined a possible (highly possible) hypothesis. I never claimed it was the absolute truth of all truths, I was just making a sensible claim. 

You don't know this. There's no information as of yet that be can attained which informs the effect of which you speak. So it's not a "truth."
14. Still on the "this doesn't exist" and "there's no way to know". Saying that to make it easier on yourself because you know what I said made sense. Alright Mr. "it's not a truth" because I'm very sure you agree to me with this to an extent (then again, you may claim that you disagree just to say it, because we're on opposing sides, and because "it doesn't exist") I'll say this: My hypothesis of my One piece point is very high of being right, more so than being wrong. There. Now, you can take that however you want it. 

Me: "I've seen HxH, and it's a masterpiece."
You: "I wouldn't go that far"
15. Wow lmao I've rarely seen anyone say anything slightly like that against Hunter x Hunter. Every comment I read and every person I've come across thus far loves it. You don't really see anyone saying bad things about it. First Naruto, -- which I can understand because I know it's flaws well, but at the same time, hating on something that's obviously legendary is the thing to do, but Hunter x Hunter? I know there's people who aren't going to like everything, or may call HxH "wouldn't go that far" or "it's alright/okay/average" but one word to describe HxH is compelling. It's simply one of the best. There are minor flaws in HxH but they don't ruin the show at all. I know you aren't saying that you dislike HxH, I would at least hope that you like it, but to say "I wouldn't go that far" is an insult to the series. You must have really bad taste.
Explaining how great HxH is: https://www.debateart.com/debates/894

That's your problem, there. You haven't seen Yu Yu Hakusho. How can you then make an informed comparison? I have seen Yu Yu Hakusho (all 112 episodes and movies.) I've also seen Hunter X Hunter. And the two of them have different stories. Hunter X Hunter isn't a sequel, continuation, or even a spin-off of Yu Yu Hakusho. So why would anyone compare them just because they were created by the same person? The only real similarity between Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter is the main characters' appearances, i.e. Yusuke and Gon. Yu Yu Hakushohas a lot more in common with Bleach than it does with Hunter X Hunter
16. The only information I need to know (and already know) is that both series were created by the same author, and I'm fully aware that they are both different stories. I didn't have to see Yu Yu Hakusho to know this. I've even seen clips of Yu Yu Hakusho. I wasn't saying Hunter x Hunter was a sequal, continuation or spin off. I admit I probably shouldn't have used Naruto and Boruto and compared it with Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter. Since, yes Naruto and Boruto does have the same characters and atmosphere despite (and as well as) them having different authors, so I concede that point to you. I should have stuck solely with Samurai 8, which leads to my next points and explains them perfectly. 

You said: So why would anyone compare them just because they were created by the same person?
17. That's exactly my point. Samurai 8 and Naruto should not be compared just because they were created by the same person. I know I used Boruto in that point, which I shouldn't have, so I am substituting it for Samurai 8 since I already had Samurai 8 in my argument which backs up my argument.

You also said: And why would we focus on Samurai 8? Does it have anything to do with the Naruto/Boruto characters, plot, setting, themes, motifs, etc? 
18. That's exactly my point as well. We are focusing on Samurai 8 because it doesn't have anything to do with Naruto or Boruto at all. It's a completely new series which Masashi Kishimoto created, which is also the creator of Naruto. 

It's not uncommon for readers to compare different works by the same author. But this is usually done in a more abstract context. It's more about the author than it is about the individual series. As I understand it, a different person has taken on Boruto. So your analogy doesn't suffice. 
19. I understand healthy comparisons, but the type of comparisons most people are doing are complaints and trashing the series when only a few chapters of the manga came out with it barely beginning. Boruto is out of the equation regarding this point. The only thing I mentioned about Boruto was that people are making it a Boruto 2.0 situation which they shouldn't be doing. My whole point was strictly about Naruto, not Boruto. I literally said, "everyone is looking at this through the lens of Naruto. "Is this the new Naruto?" "Will this surpass Naruto?" and the rest of the paragraph related to Naruto. In this case, it is about the series rather than the author because that's what people are focusing on the most. My analogy suffices because my whole point was about the creator of Naruto, not the creator of Boruto. 

Once again, Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter are different series despite being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. If you want to compare them as far as your preference for the author's works, then that's a different story. 
20. Just as Naruto and Samurai 8 are different series despite them being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. That's my whole point as well.

Pre-Conclusion
Again, I admit I shouldn't have used the Naruto and Boruto example in my first argument comparing it with Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter, as I have explained my case earlier on why I shouldn't have used it and I messed up. My point that still stands is my Samurai 8 example, which was much better than the Naruto and Boruto one. My argument on Samurai 8 still stands and it helps my case. It would be more accurate to compare Samurai 8 and Naruto to Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter because Samurai 8/Naruto has same creator and Yu Yu Hakusho/Hunter x Hunter has same creator.

Conclusion
I must reiterate this again, 90% of these complaints come from the fact that it's not as good as Naruto, or exactly like Naruto and comparing it to Naruto, not because people genuinely think it isn't a good series, and that's all this simply boils down to. Again, it's about his son and it's a different perspective. Some people are just unappreciative. The more I watch, I appreciate it for what it is because I see improvements. The complaints are just extremely annoying and overplayed at this point, especially over 100 in which is crazy. I understand everyone is different and have different opinions and all of us will not like the same thing but give Boruto a break. Before Boruto came, the hate and the speculations were bound to happen and I seen it coming. My take on it is I love all the original characters as adults and taking care of their children and Naruto achieving his goal. Even the next generation in the real world probably will like Boruto and it could very well correlate to them. I like Boruto, granted it isn't spectacular and it definitely isn't top 5 material but it's not downright horrible in my opinion, and it should not get all of the hate that it's getting. Criticism is fine, but when it's coming from the redundant place of "This isn't like Naruto, so it's trash" "This is a disgrace to Naruto series" and all the comparisons, then it's unfair, invalid and disingenuous. It's like people wanted an exact copy from Naruto's story and it being pasted to Boruto, when Boruto is a different story.

Thanks for the debate. 




Published:
Boruto wearing Naruto's jacket was just for nostalgia and to show how much they look alike.

And why would the creators do this? Why would the creators intend "to show how much they look alike"? (I'll answer that below.)

That doesn't mean he isn't his own person. I look exactly like my father, in fact we're identical. Does that mean that I'm not my own person and that I'm my dad? No. Yes, not all sons look like their fathers but Boruto just happens to look like his.This is anime we're talking about, everything shouldn't be taken so literal.
The only person who's making it "literal" is you. I'm not say that Boruto is actually Naruto. When I speak of person and character, I'm speaking to archetype.

Naruto has strong and distinct features, such as his eye and hair. So of course the creators wanted his son to take after that and especially him being the main character. "Like father like son." 


In actuality, that is factually incorrect. Naruto's blond hair would be recessive, and therefore less dominant than his wife's jet black hair. Naruto should've had a strawberry blonde hue to his hair (e.g. Rangiku Matsumoto from Bleach) given that his mother was a red-head. And more likely than not, Boruto would've had the same hair color as Himawari. Even with Boruto's blonde hair, it should've darkened especially in his adolescence. But it's exact same color as Naruto's.

And once more, for a series that's meant to be its own, why would they focus on the adage, "Like father like son"? Isn't the series Boruto and his individual characteristics?

Just as Himawari, they wanted her to take from her mother, Hinata. She has her hair, but also taking from Naruto's eyes. What this shows is that Naruto has strong genes for both of his children to take after him a bit more than Hinata. People probably wouldn't like it if Boruto took after some of Hinata's features. For me, it would be a bit weird at first and would take some getting used to. Like you said, not all sons look like their fathers and not all daughters look like their mother and vice versa (which is very true), but would you really think people would love Boruto having Hinata's hair and her eyes? Think about it. 
Himawari looks more like Naruto than Hinata. The exception is that her genetic expression is more accurate (i.e. she has the same hair as her mother.) As for people not loving Boruto's having Hinata's hair, why would that have been a problem if Boruto, once again, was meant to be his own character? I did think about it. And here's the answer I alluded to in the beginning: The purpose of Boruto is to have a Naruto 2.0. Naruto got old, and younger characters are used to appeal to younger audiences. Thus, Boruto--the semi-clone of his father, or at the very least an age-regressed version of Naruto--was created. The story isn't much different; the characters aren't much different; the setting is much different. So I believe I've made a strong case as to how the archetypes of both Naruto and Boruto are essentially the same.

but in Naruto, it was much more gritty, it was a previous generation back then and the way they did things were different. 
Not really. The procedure and protocol is the same--hence Boruto = Naruto 2.0. But at this point, it's redundant.

With that being the case, Naruto/Naruto Shippuden should not be tarnished or dragged because of Boruto. If you see it that way, alright. If you don't alright. Naruto series has completely ended (story relating to Naruto), the Boruto series doesn't include Naruto's story or Naruto's journey or anything. It's Boruto's story. It's the next generation. They are connected but Boruto is the main character and there's a whole new perspective.
Then explain the Otsutsuki clain? Why is a villain from Shippuden expanded upon in Boruto if Naruto's (and Sasuke's) story ended then? The answer is that is hasn't. Once again, the series is coasting on Naruto's popularity and essentially being used to continue the Naruto story using a younger character, i.e. Boruto, as its platform.

There's a series version of it, that's what I was referring to. 
This is a bit of a pet-peeve of mine. I'm quite literal when I refer to specific titles. Ninja Scroll is the 1993 movie. Ninja Scroll: the Series is the anime series. So when I state Ninja Scroll, I'm referring exclusively to the movie. For example, Ghost in the Shell. Now there's Ghost in the Shell SAC and 2nd GIG; there's ARISE and Innocence and Solid State Society, etc. But when I state Ghost in the Shell, I'm referring exclusive;y to the 1995 movie because it was named simply "Ghost in the Shell." If I'm referring to something else, I'll add the necessary modification to the title. But all of this is neither here, nor there.

Yes because in Boruto, technology advanced and the same thing is happening in the real world. It's much easier to communicate and things are happening faster. I'm not saying saying there are scrolls or messenger pigeons irl are being used, if that's what you were insinuating. 
No. I making the point of how ridiculous it is that a technological advancement of that magnitude happened in just ten years. If I were to approximate a real-life analogy, that would be like going from 1867 (the end of the Tokugawa shogunate) to 1975 when the first personal computers were being disseminated. Once again, we know Naruto took place in Feudal Japan because there was a Lord of Fire who dressed in a traditional shogun's garb. The same thing did not happen in the real world.

I'd argue that it's about both. The story about their children are actually shown more, you barely even see some of the Konoha 12 (11, RIP Neji) you see some of them on a consistent basis but not all - all the time. 

I never stated that it was either/or. I stated that it was more about the Konoha 11 than it was about the children. And even though the children get more screen time, they're just being inserted into already used plots and plot devices.

Criticizing the series because you dislike the series. Not criticizing it by constantly comparing it to Naruto and complaining that it isn't the exact same.
That's your opinion. The series itself will always be compared to Naruto because it is an extension of Naruto. It's the sequel to Naruto. Once again, and I must repeat this apparently, the series is titled, "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations." And my complaint has never been that isn't the "exact same" as Naruto. Its being the exact same actually informs my complaint--i.e. Boruto is just a revamp of Naruto.

Plus there are good moments. I'm unsure if you acknowledge the decent moments at all. If you don't, alright. If you do, cool. 
You quoted my stating that there were epic moments in Naruto. As for Boruto, not really.

Still your only comeback. "doesn't exist" I bet if I ask any person about the One piece example I just said, they would agree. With Naruto being one of the most selling manga, and with Naruto's son having a series, everyone dislikes it and/or of course doesn't like it as much as Naruto. I'm pretty sure the same would happen with One piece, especially it being the best selling manga of all time right now. Boruto would never reach Naruto's magnitude, and a series about Luffy's son definitely wouldn't reach One piece's magnitude. 

13. I literally imagined a possible (highly possible) hypothesis. I never claimed it was the absolute truth of all truths, I was just making a sensible claim. 

It's not a "comeback"; it's a statement of fact. The series of which you speak has not be made; therefore, you can neither speak to fact nor possibility how an audience would react to it. It's not even a hypothesis since your basis is nothing more than mere opinion.

Still on the "this doesn't exist" and "there's no way to know". Saying that to make it easier on yourself because you know what I said made sense. Alright Mr. "it's not a truth" because I'm very sure you agree to me with this to an extent (then again, you may claim that you disagree just to say it, because we're on opposing sides, and because "it doesn't exist") I'll say this: My hypothesis of my One piece point is very high of being right, more so than being wrong. There. Now, you can take that however you want it. 
You haven't formulated any hypotheses. Hypotheses are still based on evidence however scarce it may be. You have no evidence; And your basis is an imagined opinion.

Wow lmao I've rarely seen anyone say anything slightly like that against Hunter x Hunter. Every comment I read and every person I've come across thus far loves it. You don't really see anyone saying bad things about it. First Naruto, -- which I can understand because I know it's flaws well, but at the same time, hating on something that's obviously legendary is the thing to do, but Hunter x Hunter? I know there's people who aren't going to like everything, or may call HxH "wouldn't go that far" or "it's alright/okay/average" but one word to describe HxH is compelling. It's simply one of the best. There are minor flaws in HxH but they don't ruin the show at all. I know you aren't saying that you dislike HxH, I would at least hope that you like it, but to say "I wouldn't go that far" is an insult to the series. You must have really bad taste.
I never stated that Hunter x Hunter was bad. I just rebuffed your claim that it was a masterpiece. My standards of that which constitutes a masterpiece are obviously different from yours. When I think of masterpiece, I think of Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell, Fullmetal Alchemist (2003,) Neon Genesis Evangelion, Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal, etc. And the one thing all of those anime have in common is their subtle existentialist expositions, which I believe are essential for compelling the attention of any one individual from their audiences. If you think that a typical anime from a shounen jump is "masterful" perhaps my tastes aren't the ones which are bad. 

The only information I need to know (and already know) is that both series were created by the same author, and I'm fully aware that they are both different stories. I didn't have to see Yu Yu Hakusho to know this. I've even seen clips of Yu Yu Hakusho. I wasn't saying Hunter x Hunter was a sequal, continuation or spin off.
Then your analogy doesn't suffice. Yu Yu Hakusho has nothing to do with Hunter x Hunter other than inspiring some character designs (i.e. Gon [Yusuke,] Killua [Hiei,] Knuckle [Kuwabara,] and Kurapika [Kurama.] Unlike the aforementioned series, you have characters from Naruto in Boruto, and they're in very prominent roles.

I admit I probably shouldn't have used Naruto and Boruto and compared it with Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter x Hunter. Since, yes Naruto and Boruto does have the same characters and atmosphere despite (and as well as) them having different authors, so I concede that point to you.
Good.

17. That's exactly my point. Samurai 8 and Naruto should not be compared just because they were created by the same person. I know I used Boruto in that point, which I shouldn't have, so I am substituting it for Samurai 8 since I already had Samurai 8 in my argument which backs up my argument.

18. That's exactly my point as well. We are focusing on Samurai 8 because it doesn't have anything to do with Naruto or Boruto at all. It's a completely new series which Masashi Kishimoto created, which is also the creator of Naruto. 
No. You don't get to change the argument in the last round. If your point doesn't hold, then that is a fault with your argument. We're not going to change gears and focus on Samurai 8. Remember, the subject of this debate is this: Anime Debate | The Boruto hate needs to stop. It's a good series.

19. I understand healthy comparisons, but the type of comparisons most people are doing are complaints and trashing the series when only a few chapters of the manga came out with it barely beginning.
We are not going to focus on Samurai 8.

Just as Naruto and Samurai 8 are different series despite them being written by the same author. It makes no sense to compare them as series. That's my whole point as well.


No, your whole point was that Boruto doesn't deserve the hate it gets because of its extending the Naruto story line. One of your stipulations was that your contender watched a significant amount of Boruto episodes. Your attempts to shift the discussion to Samurai 8 ends here.

Closing Arguments

  1. I can only speculate that much of the reason Boruto receives all the hate it gets is that it essentially revamps the Naruto story. Most of the children look identical (or reflect some combination) to their counterparts/parents from the previous series. As far as personalities, they're almost carbon copies. The plot itself is an extension of a nonsensical story from the prequel (i.e. Kaguya.)
  2. The story relies on gimmicks in its attempt to set itself apart from Naruto (e.g. Jogan, and ninja technology.) This is ridiculous because the technological advancement of Boruto doesn't convincingly reflect the time span of just 10 years. When compared to the series Avatar the Last Airbender and Legend of Korra, which were also Asian Feudal Fantasies, it took 70 years (the gap between ATLA and LOK) to build a working train, let alone computers and machines which can produce bending (that universe's version of ninjutsu.)
  3. When my opponent's Hunter x Hunter and Yu Yu Hakusho analogy proved unsound, he literally tried to change the argument from one comparing Naruto and Boruto to one comparing Naruto and Samurai 8.
Thank you to the onlookers. Thank you to my opponent. Vote well.
Added:
--> @Wylted
I understand. Thanks anyways
Instigator
#22
Added:
--> @King_8
I have seen neither and no the vote would be more fair from people completely ignorant of the shows (which I am). If one had seen the shows they would be more likely to have inherent biases and use rationalization to place a vote.
#21
Added:
--> @Wylted, @Ramshutu
Ramshutu -
Resolution: The series doesn't deserve all the hate that it is getting, the series at the moment is good.
What makes anime good is good story, characters, action, etc -- things like that.
The hair color/recessiveness thing was an irrelevant point Con presented first, "Boruto looks almost exactly like Naruto, when the latter was a child"
For someone who hasn't seen the series, you did good with your vote and I respect it. I understand you haven't seen these series and you aren't that well versed in anime so it's not your fault. It seems the both of us pretty much tied in your eyes, but it came to one factor in one of Con's arguments that swayed you. And yeah I enjoyed this debate, I'm glad I finally had a debate about this. I could potentially open up people's eyes (people who have seen these series and who is on my side with the same thoughts as me, or people who trashed Boruto at first, now understands my side) Thanks for voting.
Wylted -
If you seen both Naruto/Naruto Shippuden & Boruto, your vote would be greatly appreciated it. But if you haven't seen it and if you don't watch anime, then it you may be somewhat confused or it may prove challenging to vote, as per Ramshutu. I would constitute a fair vote as someone who has seen both series, since it resonates with them and they know them. There's still time within the voting period, if you want to vote go ahead but if you don't want to, then don't. I'm not forcing you. Mods might delete your vote anyways since they do that a lot, no matter what your vote looks like.
Instigator
#20
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
Yeah, I should not have let that one slip. I'll do better next time.
#19
Added:
--> @Wylted
Screenshotted!!
#18
Added:
Ramshutu gave a fair vote so there is no need for me to vite especially considering my limited tine
#17
Added:
--> @King_8
Planned on it actually
#16
Added:
--> @Wylted
I'd like for you to vote whenever you are ready. Spread the word. No rush, take your time. I worked hard in this debate and I wouldn't want it to go to waste
Instigator
#15
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
It has less than 3 days left. Please don't force me to vote on this by ignoring it.
#14
Added:
vote
Instigator
#13
Added:
vote
Instigator
#12
Added:
--> @bsh1, @Virtuoso
I would like you guys to vote as well, if you have the time. And alright Ram, thanks. I know it's a long debate (sorry) I'm not forcing you to vote. If you are interested, then go ahead
Instigator
#11
Added:
--> @King_8, @Dr.Franklin
It’s on my list - I have a huge backlog of votes. Once I’m down to debates that have > 3 days left I’ll take a look (or when this one is the next one up).
#10
Added:
--> @Ramshutu, @Ragnar
HEEEYYEYEYEYEYEY VOTE NOW!!!
#9
Added:
--> @Dr.Franklin
Since you here Franklin, spread the word cause I want people to vote thanks
Instigator
#8
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
So, I haven’t seen either series, and have not watched much of any anime; so I’m coming at this from an entirely clean slate.
The first problem : is that I don’t know what the resolution is. Is it that Boruto is a good series? Or that the hate for it isn’t deserved? Its not clear, and no one tries to spell it out for people reading.
The second problem, is regardless of what the resolution is - neither side helps me by explaining how I should weigh or judged what makes a series “Good”.
This debate is near impossible to summarize accurately there are too many points, and too many references to a variety of points that I can’t really appreciate not having seen the series. While I’m reading, I can pick out the main threads, but it’s hard to recall draw much in the way of concrete conclusions on each minor point.
There was a lot of points made that didn’t really tie in with the resolution at all - it wasn’t clear how things like the hair colour recessiveness shows me how the series was validly hated. It’s really important for the debaters to never lose site of the resolution (at least for the purposes of Voting!)
Con points out that the series relies on gimmicks that were anachronistic, with less nuanced charters. That it was based from a series that was also a let down, and not great, that a character has more screen time than needed.
Pro argues that most of the hatred is based upon the prior series clouding or setting incorrect expectations for the series; though con claims its coasting on the popularity of the previous story.
There was much more to it than this, lots of counter explanations on minor points, that the gimmicks are okay, that they were Anachronistic: but due to no objective standard of good - there’s not much I can really weight even if I came down and decided one side was accurate.
The comparison con makes is probably the best and most relatable argument: buddy/angel - that the series isn’t standalone and it is coasting on the popularity of another series and another character, that Naruto appeared too much, and
The first few rounds were difficult to really parse: but with some of the points of agreement from R3 onwards it starts to get a bit easier.
The main construct that came out was that pro argues that the hate is coming from its ties to Naruto - and that is unfair. Con argues that being tied to Naruto was intentional; that you can’t tie the series to an older one - then expect it not to be judged by those standards.
This gives me almost an agreed standard between the two that leans me towards con.
Together with the explanation of gimmicks, that characters look the same and the villains and hero’s are less nuanced; I can surmise that at probably fair that Buroto wasn’t as good as the previous series - something that pro somewhat acknowledges.
The issue here, is that con suggests that the series should be tied together as they are billed that way: and presents some comparative claims between the two that pushes me in that direction.
It’s difficult to weigh anything else without either a standard to vote on, or comparisons against a standard. Both sides were mostly untethered and were arguing particular objective opinions. I would say con does a little better to try and set down objective criteria that pro; but the only argument that gives me an objective reason to come down on either side is the con argument about Naruto.
As a result, arguments to con.
Next time, I would encourage both sides to be more objective. To qualify their arguments against a standard that voters can measure in order to get a better vote.
Maybe someone who had seen any of the series mentioned could have made a better verdict: but I can only vote based on what’s provided here.
I can be sure that both sides appeared to have really enjoyed this debate.