Brandon Stark will be the one who leads Westeros at the end of episode 6
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After 4 votes and with 10 points ahead, the winner is...
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I would like to start this off by stating I dislike sparrow a lot and I think Ragnar is one of the best debaters on this site. I'm going in telling you this because my vote may or may not be controversial.
All of this said I'll begin,
POOR CONDUCT
Con has insulted pro during the debate by stating " As Sparrow is notorious for playing BS semantic games..."
- This is an obvious personal insult made against sparrow which is poor debate conduct and overall obnoxious behavior exhibited by Con.
I ask for other voters to please consider this when voting as well.
RFD in comments
It's not disputed that Bran leads six kingdoms at the end of season 8 episode 6. Con argues that episode 6 refers to season 1, episode 6. Yet, this debate has a publication date of 5-17-19 and season 8 episode 6 aired two days later. I view it as within the purview of voters to interpret the meanings of resolutions. Given the timing, the most reasonable interpretation is that the resolution is referring to season 8, episode 6 rather than season 1, episode 6. Anyone who has been keeping up with game of thrones - which is the likely audience here - would likely share this interpretation. Nonetheless, even though I wasn't convinced by Con's semantic argument, I must acknowledge that Pro dropped Con's key rebuttal. While Bran was chosen to be king of the six kingdoms, Con argues that these six kingdoms compose perhaps half of Westeros. Pro has no rebuttal to this. I had hoped Pro had argued something along the lines that the population of the northern regions were likely negligible or that, as a Stark and prior lord of winterfell, Bran had so much influence over the North that his position was one of leadership notwithstanding the official leadership of Sansa, but these arguments weren't made. So, all I have is Con's map that he gave me with his link from the Wiki. And, absent any argument from Pro, I must accept the argument from Con. Geographically, Bran does not lead Westeros at the end of season 8, episode 6. It appears that he leads perhaps half, or somewhat less than half of Westeros.
Pro effectively concedes the debate in round 1, by admitting that While Bran is King he only partially leads Westeros.
Con points out the issues with this, by citing the example of Donald Trump being called the President of North America if he wasn’t president of Canada and Mexico also. This is dropped by pro, and is enough on its own to award arguments to con.
I don’t fully accept cons argument that episode 6 consistiutes the sixth episode ever; this is not the first thing that jumps out, so will reject this point.
Because con points out that Bran does not lead Westeros as a whole successfully - this outweighs all other points.
Someone came out with a GoT extended ending, and while intended as comedy, I'd say it's a nice improvement! https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1130581319593783296
Thanks for voting.
Note: I have zero objections to any of the votes cast.
At the top of my second half of RFD, I wrote Pro when I meant Con. Particularly confusing at the top of the argument like that. Sorry.
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Vote Reported: oromagi, Death23, Ramshutu // Mod Action: Not Removed
Reason for mod action: These votes were found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.
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NOTE: GOT SPOILERS HERE
Pro defines terms, establishes clearly which episode 6 he is discussing and continues to complete four solid reasons Bran is not King of anything in Episode 6 (Season 1, ep 6).
Pro calls Season 8, ep 6 in R2 but Pro has the superior responsibility to define terms up front and is given the advantage of the description section to set terms. Pro dropped 3 opportunities (title, description, R1) to clearly define which episode was under discussion. Pro fails to set up the goalposts for the game, even though its Pro's stadium. Con kindly sets up the goalposts so that Pro and Con can play. Pro doesn't get to complain about the goalpost's placement after the game has begun.
Con's deft maneuver leaves Pro beyond the wall in winter, out in the cold.
Sources to CON: Con over-sources stylistically in this debate, improving his authority to lay claim to which ep 6 was discussed. Very nicely done. Pro used no sources to back any claims.
Grammar tied: I'd give grammar to CON for using non sequitur as an adjective alone if I thought the mods would uphold.
Conduct tied: I agree with Pro that Pro's conduct in other debates makes an irrelevant argument but an irrelevant argument is not poor conduct. I considered whether failure to alert readers to spoilers is poor conduct. My rule of thumb is that spoiler alerts are appropriate for one week after tv premiere, two weeks after cinema. Since the argument was essentially a magic trick: a prediction that surprisingly comes true- I think a spoiler alert would have suggested that Pro had real insider info and so ruin the magical effect. I can't really fault Pro for withholding a spoiler alert in this case.
NOTE: GOT SPOILERS HERE
Thanks to Sparrow for another GOT debate & nice job to both debaters for rapid-fire arguments.
Arguments to CON: Loki v. Hulk
By good intuition or good information, Pro accurately predicts that Brandon Stark gets unexpectedly elevated as the new King of six kingdoms. Pro's phrasing of thesis allowed for at least two lines of attack:
not king of all Westeros
poorly specified episode info
Pro anticipated the former and with a little effort might have made a case that while the six kingdoms make less than half of the continent of Westeros, in most contexts Westeros and the seven kingdoms are used somewhat interchangeably. I've seen some maps that would support this argument. Few seem to think of Westeros as beyond the wall and the extent of the continent beyond the wall is unknown.
Pro failed to anticipate the latter even though Con pre-argued in the comments section. Con totally exploited Pro's failure to define terms and Pro's failure to anchor the assertion in proof (even a link to the a scene on youtube here might have given Pro some evidence to defend the intention of "final episode" or "Season 8, episode 6").
Thanks for voting.
In case you're worried about spoilers from episodes 68-73, I have a large warning around the small bit of discussion I give to them.
there's a lot of bad press today, which makes me think I liked it more than most. I think the whole season would have worked much better in the usual season format. Mostly I think this season wanted for the sex and humor of previous seasons. I think King's Landing in winter was about as beautiful a setting as I've ever seen seen in fantasy.
oh no
I've seen every episode. To include episode 6. I really liked how Bran met Osha as an enemy, but they were destined to be allies.
Debate title is a spoiler. Gotta watch things when they come out because the world is polluted with spoilers.
Who else has watched it all now?
SPOILER ALERT: Bran the Broken is not the leader of all Westeros at the end of GOT