Instigator / Con
Points: 5

Black Lives Matter

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 5 votes the winner is ...
oromagi
Debate details
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Category
Politics
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
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Contender / Pro
Points: 33
Description
Hello, this debate is going to discuss Black Lives Matter and whether it is beneficial to society and black people.
Black Lives Matter-a group that claims that Police Brutality is against blacks and that society oppress blacks a lot.
beneficial- or advantageous; resulting in good.
Good luck to my opponent.
Round 1
Published:
Thanks oromagi fro accepting.

{--BLM SITS ON A CROWN OF LIES---}Despite what The MSM and BML tells you, Police Brutality affects all races. According to The Washington Post statistics:(1).46% of police shootings was to whites compared to 23% for blacks.For unarmed the statistic is 23 whites dead to 18 blacks dead.If there really was an epidemic of cops shooting innocent blacks, these numbers should be way higher.

(2)According to John Jay College, if you are a young white man, and in a police confrontation, you are more likely to be shot by police than if you are a young black man

Yes, blacks make up around 14% of the population but commit more violent crime per capita. According to the Us Department Of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with European Americans 45.3%and "Other" 2.2%.In 2013, number and percentage of murder arrests by race were:Black or African Americans 4,379 = 51.3%White Americans (non-Hispanic Americans) 2,861 = 33.5%.

BLM activists say that Blacks should train for Police Brutality. The chance of that happening. 1 in 60,000.(the same chance as getting struck by lightning) Michael Brown. AHH, where do we start? First he robbed a convenience store and reached for a cops gun. But that is not it. He created the ferguson effect which is discussed below. The number one way to not interfere or get shot by cops in not to commit a crime. It is not useful to riot or destroy black businesses. Hands up, don't shoot = Fake News.

If America oppress blacks, then why did we elect a black president?
Black Lives Matter should be called Facts don't Matter.

{---BLM IS A BAD ASSOCIATION TO BE WITH----}MLK achieved justice for blacks because he bridged whites and blacks together.
1)Top BLM members at colleges demand for segregation.Source:(3)
2)Call for banning white people from their meetings even though their own leader is white. Sean King:
3)They call for killing dead cops
4)One of their original founders back in 2012 is on the FBI'S most wanted TERRORISTS with a 2 million dollar reward. Her mission was to create a race war between delusional blacks and cops. She got what she wanted. She killed a cop and escaped to Cuba. In St. Louis, there was a protest quoting and praising her.
5)Hijacking other civil rights movements:source:(4)
6)Co-Founder claims that All Lives Matter is racist. So according to a poll, 64% of blacks are racist.
7)BLM members torturing disabled trump
supporter
8)BLM destroyed businesses run by other black people.
9)Funded by George Soros.
10)MLK found justice through peace and unity under Constitutional foundings. BLM divides and race hates. MLK preached not to riot and march peacefully. BLM riots. They want to keep blacks dependent on welfare and the government.
11)Police Officers can not do their job because BLM will hunt them down and doxx them, call for their head and their firing. What about the ferguson effect after the Protests In Ferguson caused by the shooting of Michael Brown that August, his officers had been hesitant to enforce the law due to fears of being charged, and that "the criminal element is feeling empowered" as a result.
12)BLM also supports victimhood. Victimhood disempowers black people because they are not motivated to do anything if there are always the “Victim”.
13)Shooting cops. Dallas police Shooting Blue Lives Matter. The Left and BLM trying to dethrone cops when they protect ALL of them is ridiculous.
14) The Charlotte Riots: A BLM protest,white people were being beat up and were screaming for mercy. Rocks were being thrown at rocks and trucks,stores, and buildings were looted. A state of emergency was declared and The national Guard has been deployed. Everywhere BLM goes,Hate,riots and destruction follows. If these were a minority, how come everywhere BLM goes-violence goes. Ferguson, Baltimore, Salt-Lake City, Dallas,Milwaukee,Detroit,etc,etc. It's not a coincidence. Whenever this stupid narrative is pushed by Obama and MSM, violence happens right after. BLM is a hateful movement at heart. We have never seen this out of the KKK or other groups that are claimed to be violent. Other groups do not see the level of riots seen at BLM protests. Feminists don't burn down cities. If there was violence at every tea Party event, then the MSM would be ALL OVER the Tea Party.  Hence, why only 37% of blacks support BLM now, and only 11% for all citizens.
15. Crashing a cops wedding

As a black person, you should not be in a culture/ association of acceptance of these ideas. Don't be in a group that goes against Martin Luther King.Jr.

{---THEY ARE BIGGER ISSUES----}If BLM cared about Black people, they would address these issues.The percentage of blacks murdered by other blacks before BLM existed was 91%. Today it is anywhere near 87% to 94%. Or how about blacks are 4x more likely to undergo an abortion. In NYC, more black babies were aborted than born. Same in Georgia. How about The Victim Mentality, urban terrorism, 80 years of KKK lynching is just 6 months of black on black crime. A lack of fathers and brainwashing from Democrats, black kids undergraduates, and high prison rates. They only care about money. Join BLEXIT if black. Blacks are waking up as only 37% of them support BLM.

Think for your yourself if you are black.


Published:
Thanks to Dr.Franklin for instigating this debate.

Let's begin with a couple of objections to terms offered by CON in the description portion of this debate.

OBJECTION #1:

CON has failed to offer a framework for how to proceed over the next 4 round so PRO is assuming that all bets are off within the guidelines of the DART Code of Conduct.  Let's agree that as the instigator of this debate, CON holds the heavier burden of proof. 

Let's further note that the instigator has not presented this as cost/benefit analysis.  That it, it is not necessary for PRO to show that the overall benefits of BLM outweigh the overall costs of BLM for it to prove PRO's case true that BLM benefits society.  CON has refuted the question, "Is BLM beneficial?" and so CON must establish that BLM offers no benefit of any kinds while PRO wins this debate by demonstrating at least one certain benefit that BLM contributes to American society.

Since we are working with a more limited time for arguments than usual, PRO will refrain from countering CON in R1.  Instead, PRO will work to demonstrate one certain benefit and will devote R2 to refuting CON's R1 claims.

Given the lack of framework, CON should be on notice that PRO discerns no restraints on argument in the final round.

OBJECTION #2:

African-Americans are by definition an integral part of American society, but twice in CON's short description, an inaccurate delineation is indicated between society as a whole and black people.

A. "...it is beneficial to society and black people." 

The set of all people that comprise American society certainly and entirely includes the set of all Black Americans so this statement is (at least) redundant.

B. "...that society oppress blacks a lot."  Aren't Black people also society? PRO finds no evidence that BLM credits society generally with oppression.  The Black Lives Matter official website includes the following statements:

The Black Lives Matter Global Network is a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission is to build local power and to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.

and

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.
So, right on its front page, BLM affirms its membership in American society and accuses the "state and vigilantes" of oppression, not society generally.  CON's definition of Black Lives Matter is shown to be erroneous.

PRO recommends the following corrections to the errors in CON's description:

1.  The Thesis should be amended to read:

THESIS: "The social movement known as Black Lives Matter benefits American society."

2. The definition of "Black Lives Matter" should be amended as well.  Black Lives Matter describes itself as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and racism or as a movement which "encompasses all who publicly declare that black lives matter and devote their time and energy accordingly."

But for the purposes of improved objectivity, let's use Wikipedia:

"Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism towards black people."
Importantly, Wikipedia goes on to note that the phrase "Black Lives Matter" can refer to a (1) Twitter hashtag,  (2) a slogan, (3) a social movement, or (4) a loose confederation of groups advocating for racial justice.

However much CON refers to BLM as some monolith of singular purpose, we should note that BLM has no chairwoman or president and no particular spokesperson.  One can subscribe to BLM but, by design, no one person can or does speak for the membership as a whole.

********THESIS: "The social movement known as Black Lives Matter benefits American society."************

Now let's define a benefit derived from the BLM movement.

One of the essential elements of any healthy democratic society is a police force that:

1) is subject to the rule of law,
2) can intervene in the life of citizens only under limited and carefully controlled circumstances, and
3) is publicly accountable."
Let's agree that American Democracy offers a unique challenge to democratic policing in that citizens are by right more heavily armed than any other nation in history. 

Americans are estimated to own 120 firearms for every one hundred people, two and half times the rate of the second best armed country, Yemen, (which is in its eighth year of civil war), six times the rate of France or Germany, 25 times English gun ownership rates.

Understandably, Police killings highly correlate to gun ownership.  Which means that to maintain a healthy democracy, use of force by US Police departments must be subject to a a higher level of scrutiny than any other nation.  In practice, however, Federal US oversight of police violence is paltry and manifestly insufficient.

There are no hard national standards, no binding state policies, not even a national database that tracks how often, where, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. The result, say scholars, is a free-wheeling space in American law and police policy. The nation’s 17,000 law enforcement agencies set their own terms—and when citizens cry foul, the courts spit out wildly inconsistent results.
Since 1994, Congress has ordered the US Attorney General's office to collect and publish an annual report on police use of force in the United States.  The AG's office has never once complied. Nor does the FBI does not compile police violence data nor any other Federal Agency.

"A study of killings by police from 1999 to 2002 in the Central Florida region found that the national databases included (in Florida) only one-fourth of the number of persons killed by police as reported in the local news media and concluded that this rate of reporting was better than the National average"
Such was the sorry state of police reporting and  accountability when George Zimmerman was acquitted in the shooting of Trayvon Martin in 2013.  The hashtag #BlackLivesMatter began to rally a grassroots response demanding increased oversight of justified homicides by law enforcement.  Although murder rates and felonious police deaths were enjoying a 50 year low in 2013, the FBI estimated that police shootings were way up, at least the highest in 15 years and on the increase (while also admitting that the FBI was not actively collecting data).

In the summer of 2014, Black Lives Matter changed all that by demanding improved accountability in the wake of the deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and other unarmed minorities killed by police.  In less than a year, the Federal Govt.'s official estimate of annual US police killings more than tripled from about 400 to about 1240. 

That one statistic, by itself, represents a fairly astonishing condemnation of cover-up and non-accountability by US Police departments.  Worse, researchers estimate that these numbers still reflect significant under-reporting.

In response, a number of crowd-sourced databases were developed to check government non-accounting:

Mainly following public attention to police-related killings after several well-publicized cases in 2014 (e.g., Eric Garner, Michael Brown, and John Crawford III), several projects were begun to crowd-source data on such events. These include Fatal Encounters and U.S. Police Shootings Data at Deadspin.  Another project, the Facebook page "Killed by Police" (or web-page www.KilledbyPolice.net) tracks killings starting May 1, 2013.  In 2015, CopCrisis used the KilledByPolice.net data to generate info-graphics about police killings.  A project affiliated with Black Lives Matter,[21] Mapping Police Violence, tracks killings starting January 1, 2013, and conducts analyses and visualizations examining rates of killings by police department, city, state, and national trends over time.

Let's emphasize that- the main reason that a large number of new databases of US killings by police popped up in 2015 was the Black Lives Matter led protests publicizing the deaths of unarmed black people in 2014.

Although using different methodologies and therefore reporting different results, all of the above crowd-sourced databases seem to concur that the annual number of police killings, on the rise from 2000-2014, has now leveled off, albeit at a much higher reported rate.

So here is at least one undeniably positive contribution to American society made by the Black Lives Matter social reform movement.

Some would argue that BLM's innovations in hashtag activism served as direct precursor to other hashtag driven social reform movements like #WomensMarch and #MeToo and so benefited the speed and effectiveness of communication for many future non-violent social reforms, the bedrock of democratic change in America.  Some might argue that the effectiveness of the slogan itself, Black LIves Matter has contributed to the national dialogue over inequality and race, spawning counter movements such as All Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, etc. to the extent that all nonviolent policy debate forwards the conversation towards problem resolution, the BLM slogan has served a positive benefit.  Some would argue that another positive good is the spawning of many new civil rights organizations modeled after BLM, particularly International movements like the new Dalit rights movement in India.  But all these benefits are rather more inspirational than tangible. 

For the purposes of this debate, we need to establish at least one clear and tangible benefit enjoyed by American society because of Black Lives Matter.  Before Black Lives Matter, US citizens were getting killed by police at increasing rate in spite of historic decreases in violent crime overall as well as decreased violence against police.  After Black Lives Matter began to organize protests in 2014 and as a direct result of those protests, the Federal Govt was exposed as failing in its responsibilities for police oversight and accountability, the US Dept of Justice dramatically tripled its annual estimates of police violence and at least 7 major crowd-sourced databases were created to further ensure government accuracy in future reports.  In the three full reporting years since, the number of killings by police has level off.  Black Lives Matter improved the condition of American Democracy (and thereby, American society) by providing a necessary check on and accounting for violence by state actors in the absence of sufficient checks and accurate accounting by the state itself.

In R2, PRO plans to present multiple objections and corrections to CON's R1 arguments.  In the meanwhile, PRO looks forward to CON's R2 response.













Round 2
Published:
I don’t care about the framework, really I don’t, do whatever. Tryhard. Stop with the kritics, its annoying.

Why did you accept only to be bitching about the argument time.

Blm claims:”our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression”

So yeah society oppression against blacks.

Nope, you have prove BLM outweighs the negatives.

So you said Black Lives Matter went out over the death of Michael Brown. Which was completely stupid.”Surveillance video showed that shortly before the confrontation, 18-year-old Brown stole cigarillos from a convenience store and shoved a clerk who tried to stop him.Wilson(cop)said when he tried to open his car door, Brown slammed it back shut, then punched Wilson in the face.”
>>https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ferguson-shooting-13-facts/2014/11/25/id/609483/

You claim that BLM helped authorities report police shootings. This is true, but why does this matter, Police shootings were already happening and crimes were already put in for it

Women's March and Me to has done nothing

Published:
My thanks to Dr.Franklin

Let's recall our

THESIS: "The social movement known as Black Lives Matter benefits American society."

Instigation confers the heavier proof of burden here, with CON needing to establish that BLM offers no societal benefit of any kind.  PRO needs to show some benefit.

{--BLM SITS ON A CROWN OF LIES---}

OBJECTION #3: Mixed Metaphor
CORRECTION:The more common expression would be to sit on a throne of lies,


although throne and crown both imply some authority or power accrued by deceit.  What authority or power is Black Lives Matter implied to have accrued by this metaphor?  That is, what does the metaphor of the crown stand for?  

OBJECTION #4: Support does not link to thesis.
CORRECTION: Even if CON could show that BLM "sits on a crown of lies," lying by itself does not refute benefit.  This support does does not forward CON's claim.

Despite what The MSM [main stream media?] and BML [sic- BLM?] tells you, Police Brutality affects all races.
OBJECTION #5: Undocumented claim
CORRECTION: CON needs to provide at least one example of a mainstream media outlet claiming that some races are not impacted by police brutality and one example of Black Lives Matter making such a claim.  PRO has investigated this claim and can find no online examples supporting CON's claim.

According to The Washington Post statistics:(1).46% of police shootings was to whites compared to 23% for blacks.For unarmed the statistic is 23 whites dead to 18 blacks dead.
OBJECTION #6:  Self-refutation
The Washington Post is mainstream media.  Conservapedia lists the Washington Post as second on its list of newspapers qualifying as "mainstream media."
In the last sentence, CON characterized MSM as dishonest and in this sentence uses a primary MSM outlet to refute both MSM and BLM.  Both sentences can't be prove true.  If the MSM lies about police brutality, then the Washington Post's stats can't be trusted.  If the WashPo stats are to be trusted (PRO would argue that they should be) then CON's prior claim [that the MSM does not report that police brutality affects all races] is disproved by CON's own evidence.
CORRECTION:  The prepositional phrase, "Despite what the MSM and BML tells you" has been shown to be false and readers should disregard.

If there really was an epidemic of cops shooting innocent blacks, these numbers should be way higher.
OBJECTION #7:Undocumented, unsupported claim
"Epidemic" is a subjective adjective connoting, in this context, a recent cluster of events.  For CON to present this use as an example of BLM "lies," CON must provide specific examples and demonstrate how these statements could not possibly represent an honest characterization of police killings.
CORRECTION: Readers should disregard this claim as evidence of lying or non-benefit to society.

(2)According to John Jay College, if you are a young white man, and in a police confrontation, you are more likely to be shot by police than if you are a young black man
OBJECTION #8: Broken link to source (404 error), self refutation
CORRECTION: CON has found a viable link to the citation:


The cited paper's findings report the opposite of CON's summary.

"even when controlling for arrest demographics, participating departments
revealed racial disparities across multiple levels of force severity"

"even when controlling for the very rare occurrence of arrest for violent crime within a demographic —an event that previous research suggests is only modestly more likely in and of itself to result in a use of force incident — 25%-55% of participating departments still revealed robust racial disparities that disadvantaged Blacks."
That is, even when you take the increased incidence of crime out of the picture, cops use greater force against black suspects than white.  Even when you take violent crimes out of the picture- cops use greater force against black suspects than white. 
 
OBJECTION #9: Poor conduct
CORRECTION: Whether or not the broken link was intentional, misrepresenting a study's findings as the opposite of the reported conclusion is conduct worthy of voter consideration.

Yes, blacks make up around 14% of the population but commit more violent crime per capita. According to the Us Department Of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with European Americans 45.3%and "Other" 2.2%.In 2013, number and percentage of murder arrests by race were:Black or African Americans 4,379 = 51.3%White Americans (non-Hispanic Americans) 2,861 = 33.5%.
OBJECTION #10: self-refutation
The John Jay College report finds black crime and black violent crime rates are non-determinative for greater use of force by police.  Con has pre-refuted the relevance of this stat.
CORRECTION: Readers should disregard as irrelevant to topic.

OBJECTION #11: No citation

OBJECTION #12: No link to support
CON fails to show how these statistics support the notion that BLM lies.
CORRECTION: Readers should disregard as irrelevant to support.

OBJECTION #13: No link to thesis
CON fails to show how these statistics support the notion that BLM is entirely without benefit to society.  Men commit more crimes than women.  Are all men therefore more deserving of police violence or less entitled to police protection?  Obviously not.  
CORRECTION:  Again, disregard.

BLM activists say that Blacks should train for Police Brutality.   The chance of that happening. 1 in 60,000.(the same chance as getting struck by lightning)
OBJECTION #14: no citations

OBJECTION #15: false data.
CORRECTION: National Geographic put the chance of being struck by lightning in the average lifetime at 1 in 5000.

OBJECTION #16: false data
CORRECTION:  According to CON's John Jay College Report, the use of force rates

 "for Black residents was 273 per 100,000, which is 2.5 times as high as the overall rate and 3.6 times as high as the rate for White residents (76 per 100,000) "

and 100,000/273 =366.3 so using CON's data blacks have a 1 in 366  ANNUAL chance of experiencing police brutality.  Repeated over 60 years and you get a 1 in 6.1 chance of police brutality- CON's statistic is wrong by four orders of magnitude according to CON's own report.

OBJECTION #17:self-refuting analogy
CON argues the BLM lies because it recommends training for an event no more common than lightning strike. The National Weather Service and the Boy Scouts of America of training for lightning strikes.  Are the NWS and BSA therefore lying about the perils of lightning strikes?
CORRECTION: Readers should consider CON's claim as evidence favoring PRO: Whatever the extent of BLM's training or recommendations to train for police brutality, education is nearly always a positive benefit and about as relevant as lightning training by the National Weather Service, which few would call entirely unbeneficial.

Michael Brown. AHH, where do we start? First he robbed a convenience store and reached for a cops gun. But that is not it. He created the ferguson effect which is discussed below. The number one way to not interfere or get shot by cops in not to commit a crime. It is not useful to riot or destroy black businesses. Hands up, don't shoot = Fake News.
OBJECTION #18: false data
CORRECTION:  The Ferguson Effect is bullshit.  SEE => OBJECTION #41.

OBJECTION #19: no citations
Except for the Ferguson Effect claim, PRO & CON are in general agreement in this paragraph.
CORRECTION: The Dept. of Justice investigation in the shooting of Michael Brown found that:

"The evidence, when viewed as a whole, does not support the conclusion that Wilson’s uses of deadly force were “objectively unreasonable”

under the Supreme Court’s definition. There is no evidence that Michael Brown had his hands up in the air when shot so yes, "Hands up, Don't Shoot'
PRO & CON agree here that "hands up, don't shoot" is based on a lie.  Although BLM did not originate that lie BLM was clearly the principle exponent of that lie.

OBJECTION #20: no link to thesis
PRO concedes that BLM has propagated at least one falsehood.  PRO refutes that CON has established a standard for "crown of lies" or that PRO's concession of this point serves as evidence supporting "crown of lies" or indeed as evidence disproving any benefit.  It is perfectly possible  that BLM both once helped tp spread false information nevertheless and yet provides at least one societal benefit.

If America oppress blacks, then why did we elect a black president?
OBJECTION #21: Straw Man
CORRECTION: As shown in R1-OBJECTION #2 Black Lives Matter does not claim that America oppresses blacks.  CON must show evidence in support of this claim.

OBJECTION #22: CON again inaccurately delineates America from blacks.  (SEE => OBJECTION #2)
CORRECTION: The set of all American citizens includes the set of all black people.

OBJECTION #23: affirming a disjunct
CORRECTION: Affirming a disjunct is a fallacy when in the following form:

"A is true or B is true.
B is true.
Therefore, A is not true.*
The conclusion does not follow from the premise as it could be the case that A and B are both true. This fallacy stems from the stated definition of or in propositional logic to be inclusive."

Like this:

1.  America oppresses blacks or America has elected a black president
2.  America has elected a black president
3.  Therefore, America does not oppress blacks

The conclusion does not follow. 

Americans can and often do feel oppressed by members of their own racial group.  For example, Thomas Jefferson felt oppressed by King George III although both belonged to the same race.

Black Lives Matter should be called Facts don't Matter.
OBJECTION #24: unwarranted, speculative
CORRECTION: disregard

{---BLM IS A BAD ASSOCIATION TO BE WITH----}

1)Top BLM members at colleges demand for segregation.Source:(3)
OBJECTION #25: no citation
CON's citation "The Toronto Sun" is insufficient.  PRO has found no Toronto Sun articles or any other source that validates this claim.

2)Call for banning white people from their meetings even though their own leader is white. Sean [sic] King:
OBJECTION #26: Inconsistent definition
Barrack Obama and Jeffrey Shaun King both have black fathers and white mothers, but CON makes one argument that depends on Barack Obama being black and another argument that depends on Sean King being white.
CORRECTION:  CON must apply one rational definition and drop one or both arguments as appropriate.

OBJECTION #27: self-refutation
CORRECTION:If CON defines Shaun King as white (King identifies as mixed race), then this serves as evidence contradicting CON's statement that BLM excludes whites.  Since Sean King is not excluded from BLM meetings, King is either not white or BLM does not ban white people (or at least, not entirely).

OBJECTION #28:false data
CORRECTION: BLM has no leadership.  As argued in R1, BLM recognizes no formal hierarchy.  Shaun King may be a member of BLM but Shaun King, by design, cannot represent the views of BLM independently.

3)They call for killing dead cops
OBJECTION #29: false data
CORRECTION:  Prima facie absurdity.  No BLM statements call for re-killing the dead. This argument should be ignored.

OBJECTION #30: no citation

4)One of their original founders back in 2012 is on the FBI'S most wanted TERRORISTS with a 2 million dollar reward. Her mission was to create a race war between delusional blacks and cops. She got what she wanted. She killed a cop and escaped to Cuba. In St. Louis, there was a protest quoting and praising her.
OBJECTION #31: false data
CORRECTION: The Black Lives Matter

"movement was co-founded by three black community organizers: Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi." 

Although all three founders have been arrested in the course of non-violent protest, none of these three have ever been charged with a felony.  CON's accusation is entirely false and without merit and should be dismissed.  Also, BLM was founded in the summer of 2013, not 2012.

5)Hijacking other civil rights movements:source:(4)
OBJECTION #32: no citation
CORRECTION:  CON must link to source.  Just "Toronto Sun" is insufficient.

6)Co-Founder claims that All Lives Matter is racist.
OBJECTION #33: no citation
Which founder?

So according to a poll, 64% of blacks are racist.
OBJECTION #34: no citation. 
What poll?

7)BLM members torturing disabled trump supporter

OBJECTION #35: false data
CORRECTION:  Per Wikipedia:

"In its aftermath, the hashtag #BLMKidnapping was trending on Twitter, implying a connection with the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement.  None of the attackers specifically mentioned Black Lives Matter in the video and the police found there to be no direct connection.  Representatives for Black Lives Matter's Chicago branch denounced the beating and stated that they were uninvolved, and police stated that they found no evidence that Black Lives Matter was the motive of the incident."

OBJECTION #36: no citation

8)BLM destroyed businesses run by other black people.
OBJECTION #37: no citation
PRO is unable to determine what event(s) CON is referring to here.

9)Funded by George Soros.
OBJECTION #38: no citation

OBJECTION #39: no link to support
If true, how does taking money from George Soros serve as evidence of "a bad assoiciation?"  Soros is most famous for having bankrolled many important anti-communist dissidents at the end of the Cold War

"including Poland's Solidarity movement, Charter 77 in Czechoslovakia and Andrei Sakharov in the Soviet Union."

Wikipedia notes:

"His [Soros's] extensive funding of political causes has made him a "bugaboo of European nationalists".[21] Numerous American conservatives have promoted false claims that characterize Soros as a singularly dangerous "puppetmaster" behind a variety of alleged global plots, with The New York Times reporting that by 2018 these claims had "moved from the fringes to the mainstream of Republican politics."

10) MLK found justice through peace and unity under Constitutional foundings. BLM divides and race hates. MLK preached not to riot and march peacefully. BLM riots. They want to keep blacks dependent on welfare and the government.

OBJECTION #40: no citation
A string of fairly provocative accusations without any documentation.  What fair reporting finds that BLM is a hate group?  What fair reporting finds that BLM riots?  What fair reporting finds that BLM wants to increase black dependency?

11)Police Officers can not do their job because BLM will hunt them down and doxx them, call for their head and their firing. What about the ferguson effect after the Protests In Ferguson caused by the shooting of Michael Brown that August, his officers had been hesitant to enforce the law due to fears of being charged, and that "the criminal element is feeling empowered" as a result.
OBJECTION #41: false data
CORRECTION:  The Ferguson Effect, speculative in 2015, is now thoroughly debunked.


"Racialized changes in the quantity and quality of policing among Missouri police departments found that Changes in police behavior had no appreciable effect on total, violent, or property crime rates."

Bradley Campbell of the University of Louisville found no significant change in the number of fatal shootings after Ferguson as did Edward Maguire of Arizona State University

Pyrooz, et al found "There is no evidence to support a systematic Ferguson Effect on overall, violent, and property crime trends in large U.S. cities"


12)BLM also supports victimhood. Victimhood disempowers black people because they are not motivated to do anything if there are always the “Victim”.
OBJECTION #42: no citation
CORRECTION: To the extent that non-violent political engagement is precisely the preferred democratic remedy to government oppression, PRO argues CON's claim is manifestly false.

13)Shooting cops. Dallas police Shooting Blue Lives Matter. The Left and BLM trying to dethrone cops when they protect ALL of them is ridiculous.

OBJECTION #43: false data
CORRECTION: There was no relationship between BLM and the shooter, Micah Johnson.  BLM protesters were, of course, also fired upon by alongside the cops.  Naturally, BLM condemned the shootings immediately.

Two lawsuits that alleged that the Dallas shootings were a result of Black Lives Matter incitement have been dismissed as without merit.

14) The Charlotte Riots: A BLM protest,white people were being beat up and were screaming for mercy. Rocks were being thrown at rocks and trucks,stores, and buildings were looted. A state of emergency was declared and The national Guard has been deployed.
OBJECTION #44:no citation
CORRECTION:  PRO finds the above more or less true.  While the slogan "Black Lives Matter" was certainly tossed around the first night, I don't think it can be fairly claimed that BLM organization (or any organization) was in evidence the first or second night.  Professor and BLM member Toussaint Romain's peacekeeping efforts on the second night of the rioting certainly reflected BLM values and training and benefited the City of Charlotte by reduced harm.

Everywhere BLM goes,Hate,riots and destruction follows. If these were a minority, how come everywhere BLM goes-violence goes.
OBJECTION #45: no citation, false claim
CORRECTION: BLM membership and advocacy is commonplace- to be found in most any American city of any size.  Since all American cities are not destroyed by hate and riots, CON's claim is disproved.

Ferguson, Baltimore, Salt-Lake City, Dallas,Milwaukee,Detroit,etc,etc. It's not a coincidence. Whenever this stupid narrative is pushed by Obama and MSM, violence happens right after.
OBJECTION #46: false claim
CORRECTION: CON seems to imply that Obama and the mainstream media caused riots in six cities. CON fails to specify events but it looks like all six of these events begin with a  police shooting of an unarmed person suggesting that the violence began BEFORE not AFTER any response by the President or the News.  What is BLM accused of in these cases?  Are there any charges, investigations, documentation of BLM organization?  PRO found no such evidence but that is a lot of ground to cover.

BLM is a hateful movement at heart. We have never seen this out of the KKK or other groups that are claimed to be violent.
OBJECTION #47: false claim
CORRECTION: The Klan murdered many people. The Tuskegee Institute has documented 4,743 lynchings between 1882 and 1968.  BLM is responsible for no deaths to my certain knowledge while the KKK is responsible for thousands, at least.

Other groups do not see the level of riots seen at BLM protests.
OBJECTION #48: false claim
CORRECTION:  Manifestly false.  CON has admired the justice of the 1960's Civil Rights Movement but those protests were marked by far more violence, arrests, and property damage than anything the US has seen in the past five years.  Labor strikes and Anti-war protests were easily far more violent than BLM.  The scale of Superbowl rioting alone almost certainly accounts for more death and destruction: tens of thousands of rioters vs hundreds.

Feminists don't burn down cities.

OBJECTION #49: no citation, false data
CORRECTION: Boudica #metoo'd London in 60AD

If there was violence at every tea Party event, then the MSM would be ALL OVER the Tea Party.  Hence, why only 37% of blacks support BLM now, and only 11% for all citizens.
OBJECTION #50: No citation
CORRECTION: The most recent poll PRO can find is a 2017 Harvard-Harris poll: 83% of blacks have a favorable view of BLM and 43% favorable overall.

15. Crashing a cops wedding
OBJECTION #51: No citation

As a black person, you should not be in a culture/ association of acceptance of these ideas. Don't be in a group that goes against Martin Luther King.Jr.
OBJECTION #52: non sequitur
CORRECTION:  CON has failed to show how BLM  "goes against" Martin Luther King.

{---THEY ARE BIGGER ISSUES----}
If BLM cared about Black people, they would address these issues.
OBJECTION #53:  Whataboutism
CORRECTION:  CON's job is to show that BLM serves no benefit.  The argument that there other social problems worthy of reform does not refute the value of protesting against police brutality.

The percentage of blacks murdered by other blacks before BLM existed was 91%. Today it is anywhere near 87% to 94%.
OBJECTION #54: no citation

Or how about blacks are 4x more likely to undergo an abortion.   In NYC, more black babies were aborted than born.  
Same in Georgia.

OBJECTION #55:no citations

OBJECTION #56: no link to thesis
CORRECTION: CON must show how fewer babies does not benefit an overpopulated society.

How about The Victim Mentality, urban terrorism,
OBJECTION #57:  undefined terms
What is CON talking about with these two items?

80 years of KKK lynching is just 6 months of black on black crime.
OBJECTION #58: false data
CORRECTION:  Source for this claim is Allen West.  Politifact rates this claim as HALF TRUE.

A lack of fathers and brainwashing from Democrats, black kids undergraduates, and high prison rates.
OBJECTION #59: no citation
CON is just stringing together TV pundit talking points without any kind of documentation or evidence here.

They only care about money.
OBJECTION #60: racist generalization, stereotype

 Join BLEXIT if black.
OBJECTION # 61: undefined term
CORRECTION:  The term "blexit" was already a movement towards Black economic independence before Fox News pundits infringed on intellectual property.  CON's sloganeering needs a new term.

This Blacks are waking up as only 37% of them support BLM.
OBJECTION #62: no citation

OBJECTION #63: false data
CORRECTION:  SEE => OBJECTION #50

Think for your yourself if you are black.
OBJECTION #64: no link to thesis
How does CON's imperative directed towards black people forward CON's case that Black Lives Matter serves no kind of benefit?


The entirety of CON's argument is so riddled with unsupported statements, unsupportable statments, half-truths, out right falsehoods, and irrelevant claims that PRO finds little argument to refute on the merits.  PRO will summarize, address CON's R2 remarks and counter any new arguments in R3.

In the meanwhile, PRO looks forward to CON's R3 response.

























Round 3
Published:
I concede because you are a fucking tryhard who sweats his ass off while debating. You are 15-0 for a reason. Calm down. Why would you accept this debate just to massacre me. You are now longer allowed to my debates. Have a good day AND PEACE
Published:
Peace back at you, Dr.Franklin and thanks for the concession.  I had my next argument all written out so CON can take satisfaction in that the "tryhard" appellation  proves out:  now those arguments would only be seen as piling on and will be wasted.

Extend all arguments to R4.




Round 4
Forfeited
Published:
Thanks again to Dr.Franklin for conceding.

Extend all arguments.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

not an elegy for Mike Brown

I am sick of writing this poem
but bring the boy. his new name

his same old body. ordinary, black
dead thing. bring him & we will mourn
until we forget what we are mourning

& isn’t that what being black is about?
not the joy of it, but the feeling

you get when you are looking
at your child, turn your head,
then, poof, no more child.

that feeling. that’s black.

\\

think: once, a white girl
was kidnapped & that’s the Trojan war.

later, up the block, Troy got shot
& that was Tuesday. are we not worthy

of a city of ash? of 1000 ships
launched because we are missed?

always, something deserves to be burned.
it’s never the right thing now a days.

I demand a war to bring the dead boy back
no matter what his name is this time.

I at least demand a song. a song will do just fine.

\\

look at what the lord has made.
above Missouri, sweet smoke.

-Danez Smith

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Added:
--> @Gatorade
HAH
Instigator
#5
Added:
Votes on conceded debates are not moderated
#4
Added:
https://youtu.be/oBZk6JZwJCU
https://www.conservapedia.com/Mainstream_media
https://policingequity.org/images/pdfs-doc/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/natural-disasters/lightning/
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/03/16/lesson-learned-from-the-shooting-of-michael-brown/?utm_term=.9dba44efa1d0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_fallacy
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_King
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Chicago_torture_incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235217301289?via%3Dihub
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0011128716686343?journalCode=cadc
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07418825.2016.1236205?journalCode=rjqy20
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047235216300010?via%3Dihub
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Dallas-Police-Shooting-Sniper-Black-Lives-Matter-NAACP-385997131.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toussaint_Romain
http://racialviolenceus.org/Data/tuskegeelynchingstatistics.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/344985-poll-57-percent-have-negative-view-of-black-lives-matter-movement
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/27/allen-west/allen-west-more-black-black-murders-six-months-86-/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2018/11/21/will-the-real-blexit-please-stand-up/#23265a9740e7
Contender
#3
Added:
sources:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/what-we-believe/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter
http://web.mit.edu/gtmarx/www/poldem.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/9/17205256/gun-violence-us-police-shootings
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-police-brutality-depends-where-you-live-n8816
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States,_2014
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2004-05-24-0405240017-story.html
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/murder-topic-page/murdermain_final
https://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/police-shootings-not-at-a-record-level/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/reminder-the-fbis-police-homicide-count-is-wrong/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-new-estimate-of-killings-by-police-is-way-higher-and-still-too-low/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-new-estimate-of-killings-by-police-is-way-higher-and-still-too-low/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_the_United_States
https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-11-08/black-lives-matter-activists-indias-discriminated-dalit-learn-tactics-press
Contender
#2
Added:
sources:
1.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police-shootings-2018/
2.https://www.jjay.cuny.edu/news/race-use-force-and-crime-new-report-analyzes-links-and-disparities
3.The Toronto Sun
4.Ibid
Instigator
#1
#5
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
pro was a tryhard
#4
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Concession
#3
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
C R3
#2
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Normally I give conduct for concessions, but conceding while trying to insult someone for being better at the shared hobby makes no sense. If smarter people routinely disagree, maybe there's some truth to what they say.
#1
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
" I concede because you are a fucking tryhard who sweats his ass off while debating. You are 15-0 for a reason. Calm down. Why would you accept this debate just to massacre me. You are now longer allowed to my debates. Have a good day AND PEACE"
- Very poor debate conduct by Con, he pretty much conceded the entire debate and insulted Pro at the same time.
At least if you're going to admit defeat, do it nicely and politely.
Also, I might add that Dr.Franklin clearly demonstrated he was a coward who ran away due to Pro clearly outsmarting him.
Dr.Franklin is banning pro from ever participating on their debates again for a VERY poor reason, not because pro demonstrates poor conduct, not because Dr.Franklin doesn't want to waste his time if pro was too ignorant, and not even because of pro ff every single round constantly.
It's because Pro outsmarted him...
Very poor debate conduct on Dr. Franklin's part and very poor reasoning in general.
There're reasons to ban people from participating in your debates, heck I recently just banned Tiwaz.
However, banning someone simply because they're " massacuring " you is just a coward move.