Instigator / Con
Points: 14

Take the Knee

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 2 votes the winner is ...
Dr.Franklin
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Politics
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender / Pro
Points: 5
Description
Hello mairji23, I would like to debate you on the topic of take the knee. This was a protest where NFL players took a knee during the national anthem. I will be taking Con.
Round 1
Published:
Reason 1: Police Brutality is not a race issue.-Despite what The MSM and BML tells you, Police Brutality affects all races. According to The Washington Post statistics:.46% of police shootings was to whites compared to 23% for blacks.For unarmed the statistic is 23 whites dead to 18 blacks dead.If there really was an epidemic of cops shooting innocent blacks, these numbers should be way higher.

According to John Jay College, if you are a young white man, and in a police confrontation, you are more likely to be shot by police than if you are a young black man

Reason 2:They are protesting America but they make millions of dollars off an American thing. 

Reason 3:It could offend veterans who died for the flag.

Reason 4:Kolin CRAPernick the founder of the movement praised Fidel Castro, supported the hate group Black Lives Matter and wears a shirt with the Black Panthers on it, a hate group. 
Published:
I can see that you went straight to the stat sheet while disregarding the facts, but I'll play devil's advocate.

You said that police brutality isn't a race issue. BBC News Canada presented a news story of "Why Do US Police Keep Killing Unarmed Black People." Did you know that in 2015, more than 100 (unarmed) black people were killed by the cops? Give me the number of unarmed whites that were killed in 2015 by cops.

Yeah, that kind of obliterates the nonsense you're spewing. 

Who's protesting America? Why are we trying to read someone else's pockets? How can dead veterans be offended if they're already dead?

When did the Black Panthers ever become a hate group? Why can't Black people say that their lives matter as well?

But, you're the same guy who labeled me as racist.
Round 2
Published:
"You said that police brutality isn't a race issue. BBC News Canada presented a news story of "Why Do US Police Keep Killing Unarmed Black People." Did you know that in 2015, more than 100 (unarmed) black people were killed by the cops? Give me the number of unarmed whites that were killed in 2015 by cops."
497 white people shot dead by cops in 2015,nice try


Who's protesting America?
Colin KRAPernick. 

Why are we trying to read someone else's pockets?
Because their narrative is bullshit.

How can dead veterans be offended if they're already dead?
Did you really just say that. Wow,just WOW. What about the families or current veterans.Or how about Alejandro Villanueva, us army veteran, the filthy steelers tried to force him in the locker room but he refused, standing alone for the flag.

When did the Black Panthers ever become a hate group? 
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-nationalist. This website identifies Black Panthers as Black supremacists and a hate group.

Why can't Black people say that their lives matter as well?
They can totally say their live matter as well, but the problem is how these people are protesting the flag.

But, you're the same guy who labeled me as racist.
I think your racist because you said:"All problems in the world is because of the white male"


Published:
And how many of the 497 were "Unarmed?" I'll wait...……….

So, what you're saying is that kneeling, which is a form of peaceful protesting, is bullsh**? Dude, nobody tried to force Alejandro Villanueva into the locker room. By the way, have you seen the size of that guy? Seems to me that you're trying to rewrite the script with a fake story because you don't have a case. 

You said verbatim, "it could offend veterans who died for the flag." Did you not say that? As I said earlier, defending yourself doesn't make you a terrorist. The Black Panthers were actually started as a means of neighborhood protection against the crooked cops, but I'm sure you knew that...Right? 

I'm paraphrasing, but you say that "black football players are wrong for the way they are protesting the flag." We've debated this topic before, but looks like I'll have to explain ne more time...(Veterans Told Kaepernick That It Would Be Fine If He Kneeled.) Keyword: Veterans...On the other hand, the Star-Spangled Banner was written by a well-known racist, and it possessed racist lyrics. Are you even aware that the racist lyrics were removed? 

When I say the word (all), I'm actually generalizing. Yes, generalizing is wrong, but white people do cause the majority of the world's problems. Your history backs up my claims to the highest degree.
Round 3
Published:
32 unarmed white people killed to 38 black HOWEVER blacks commit more crimes like stealing and assault which frequently includes no weapon, also in the case of Micheal Brown, he robbed a convenience store and assaulted the cop. You also didn't respond to my argument where John Jay college did a study which found white people get shot more a rate than blacks. 

Yes, they forced the team to be in the locker room, get it right, 

The Black Panthers are still a violent hate group today and aligning with them is illogical. Pro also ignored my argument where KRAPernick praised Fidel Castro and supported the hat group BLM. Again this website identifies the black panthers as a HATE group who caused increase in murders-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pf2eNDww7E. Try and debunk the source who identified the Black Panthers as a hate group-https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/black-nationalist.

History is not a argument for today. Please tell me what "veterans" liked KRAPernick for kneeling. My dad is a veteran and HE HATES KRAPERNICK. So please, tell me because at the end of the day their just brainwashed. 

Generalizing is racist, racsim-prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race.

By saying that white people are mentally ill and the cause of all problems is straight racist
Published:
Yet again, let me address the nonsense that my antagonist is spewing.

Even though you're still pulling faux stats from government sites, you still fell short. You said 32 unarmed whites were killed while 38 unarmed blacks were killed. It's simple mathematics that 38 is more than 32. My source, https://mappingpoliceviolence.org, is credible because it actually monitors what law enforcement does, it retains the legitimate statistical data, and it keeps reports of violent trends. 

No, the Pittsburg Steelers didn't try to force him in the locker room. Coach Tomlin said that it's up to each player to stand or to wait in the locker room. This story was covered on multiple sports channels, and everyone knows that you're lying. You may want to study the deposition that killer-cop Wilson gave to the Grand Jury, which completely different from killer-cop Wilson's initial interrogation. Yes, he surely contradicted himself, and it's documented. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/is-everything-we-thought-we-knew-about-the-michael-brown/article_9639102d-d318-566b-a397-25d735a5d225.html...So what you're saying is that an unarmed Michael Brown assaulted Wilson, who was sitting in his patrol car with a gun in his holster? So...if Brown assaulted Wilson while sitting in his patrol car, then why was Brown's body laying nearly 20 feet away from the patrol car when the bullet hit him? Hmmm.

John J. College? Is this the same John J. College that issued a report that publicly noted "Blacks Are Still More Likely Than Whites To Be Targeted By Force." The report was noted by Dr. Philip Atiba Goff, and the study compares police departments that are registered with the Center's National Justice Database. 

If you think that BLM is a hate group, then let me ask you something? Who has BLM ever killed? Before you start scrubbing the internet for answers, just now that (If) a black person kills a white cop, then that doesn't mean the person is tied to BLM. Some people say that BLM incites violence, but you must remember that Martin L. King was also blamed for inciting violence in which he never did...Yes, I just pre-empted your soon-to-be lie with quote-on-quote Facts.

You said that "history is not an argument for today." I'm just going to let you sink your own ship with that comment. Not to be disrespectful, but for arguments sake, if your parents had never met in the past then you wouldn't be here today....You asked, "what veterans liked Kaepernick for kneeling." Your question is gladly answered right here https://theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from-american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/. Well, I'm a vet and love him.

You're trying to school me on the definition of racism while your entire lifestyle and existence was built on racism so step your game up.


Round 4
Published:
ah, mairji, you still dont get it, do you? Denying statistics, classy, well let me destroy you with facts.

1. 63k backs were shot by whites in 2010, while 320k whites were shot by blacks.Thats 5x more. Oh and if you account for population its 25x more. In aggravated assault, black on white crime is 200x more than white on black crime. 
2.Blacks commit half of violent crime.
3.Blacks are 5x to 10x more likely to put themselves in a Police confrontation.
4. So wouldn't more black people get shot by cops, doesn't matter if they are unarmed or not, well no.I bring my point earlier-"Washington Post statistics:.46% of police shootings was to whites compared to 23% for blacks.For unarmed the statistic is 23 whites dead to 18 blacks dead.If there really was an epidemic of cops shooting innocent blacks, these numbers should be way higher."

THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL STORY:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20801902/pittsburgh-steelers-remain-locker-room-national-anthem, DO YOU know how hard it is, where the coach is practically forcing everyone to be in the locker-room but you dont and being a veteran you run out and stand for the anthem. THATS bravery. 

Your source wont load for me but he was 20 feet away, because oh well I dont know maybe he was running away after assaulting a cop.Come on,use that big brain. In Missouri, thats legal. He was dangerous. Again as Newsmax reports


1. Surveillance video showed that shortly before the confrontation, 18-year-old Brown stole cigarillos from a convenience store and shoved a clerk who tried to stop him.

2. The autopsy report showed that Brown had marijuana in his system when he died.

3. Officer Wilson, driving from the scene of a medical emergency, first encountered Brown walking in the middle of a street and told Brown and his friend to walk on the sidewalk. Brown responded with an expletive.

4. Wilson chose to confront Brown only after he saw the cigarillos in his hand and recalled the radio report of a robbery at the convenience store.

5. Wilson said when he tried to open his car door, Brown slammed it back shut, then punched Wilson in the face.

6. Fearing another punch could knock him out, Wilson drew his gun, he told the grand jury, and Brown grabbed the gun, saying "you are too much of a pussy to shoot me."

7. An African-American witness confirmed that Brown and Wilson appeared to be "arm-wrestling" by the car.

8. Another witness saw Brown leaning through the car's window and said "some sort of confrontation was taking place."

9. After Wilson fired a shot that struck Brown's hand, Brown fled and Wilson gave chase. Brown suddenly stopped. An unidentified witness told the grand jury that 6-foot-
292-pound Brown charged at Wilson with his head down. Wilson said Brown put his hand under the waistband of his pants as he continued toward Wilson. That's when Wilson fired.

10. A witness testified that Brown never raised his hands.

11. Gunpowder found on the wound on Brown's hand indicated his hand was close to the gun when it fired. According to a report, the hand wound showed foreign matter "consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm."

12. Judy Melinek, a forensic pathologist who reviewed the autopsy for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, said the gunpowder "supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has particulate matter in the wound."

13. Wilson said Brown was physically uncontrollable and "for lack of a better word, crazy." He said that during the confrontation, he was thinking: "He's gonna kill me. How do I survive?" Legal experts say police officers typically have wide latitude to use deadly force when they feel their safety is threatened.
So yeah, Micheal Brown is a fraud.

You can try and debunk John Jay College, all day long. But the facts dont lie. Blacks commit more crime but are shot less by police>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHvppVEBTY

Black Lives Matter. Oh yeah, well the BLM supporters that tortured a disabled trump supporter was in BLM. Lets not forget the inspiration behind BLM is on the FBIS most wanted terrorist list>>https://www.infowars.com/inspiration-behind-black-lives-matter-is-on-the-fbis-most-wanted-terrorists-list/. BLM supporters and one celebrity supported her.

Now I will absolutely destroy you with facts.Ready set gooooo

1.They call for killing dead cops-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQXmnMr_w8
4.The Charlotte Riots: A BLM protest,white people were being beat up and were screaming for mercy. Rocks were being thrown at rocks and trucks,stores, and buildings were looted. A state of emergency was declared and The national Guard has been deployed. Everywhere BLM goes,Hate,riots and destruction follows. If these were a minority, how come everywhere BLM goes-violence goes. Ferguson, Baltimore, Salt-Lake City, Dallas,Milwaukee,Detroit,etc,etc. It's not a coincidence. Whenever this stupid narrative is pushed by Obama and MSM, violence happens right after. BLM is a hateful movement at heart. We have never seen this out of the KKK or other groups that are claimed to be violent. Other groups do not see the level of riots seen at BLM protests. Feminists don't burn down cities. If there was violence at every tea Party event, then the MSM would be ALL OVER the Tea Party.  Hence, why only 37% of blacks support BLM now, and only 11% for all citizens.-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsaAi56oVqg
5.Shooting cops. Dallas police Shooting Blue Lives Matter. The Left and BLM trying to dethrone cops when they protect ALL of them is ridiculous.-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOT1dX8eQ6s

Their BLM is HATE, VIOLENCE and RACISM.Checkmate

That veteran is stupid, i'm sorry had to be said. One veteran BTW. HE claims that he fought for his right to protest. Ok, so what. If you want to protest a myth, then they are a MILLION more better ways to get your point across. This solved nothing but more divide.

1.Social Media hashtag
2.A march

Thats just 2 that is a million times more effective than ANYTHING KRAPERNICK has done. Please give me ONE reason you would actually be so insane to think for a trillionth of a second that when you make a salary of 20 million off of An AMERICAN thing you would dare protest that thing that gave you so much and then to Praise Fidel Castro, unbelievable. Protesting this on 9/11 WOW GOOD MOVE IDIOTS-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdRCoSPckJQ

If you think Black people are not mentally ill, then you are racism you think a race is inertially different and worse than one race. Which is textbook racism, just admit you don't like white people. Just admit you are racist. Its not that hard.


In conclusion, I have proved that Kolin KRAPernick is a fraud and my opponent ignores arguments and denies statistics.
Published:
I'm going to try to cover as much of this psycho-babble as I can. If you have to write a full-novel to get your point across, then it shows just how uninformed you truly are. 

As I've stated before, government stats have been proven to be misleading and false on a regular basis. If you didn't know, this government has a long history of corruption in which you can't dispute. Running to government stats is basically a last resort. Let's see how credible your government is by answering a few simple questions.

1. Where are those Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq that the government blatantly announced on nation tv ? 
2. What ever happened to the 40-Acres & A Mule that the government was suppose to give to freed slaves?
3. Why did the government earmark $1 million for the Notre Dame Cathedral, (which is in another country), even though people in Flint, Michigan haven't had clean drinking water in over a year?
4. Why doesn't the government-FBI report its stats on hate crimes?
5. And on and on...

This list doesn't even scratch the surface, but you can find an entire list of Government Scandals at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States Word of advice: It's too many to count. 

As you can see, my opponent has ditched the topic of discussion because his arguments are getting shutdown with facts and common sense. You can run to faux stats all you want, but reality perfectly contradicts your argument. This is why I don't have to spend copious amounts of time arguing. Since the majority of these killer-cop cases have been recorded, you don't have any possible foundation to stand on. So tell me...how do you argue against murders that have been recorded?

I'll wait...……………………..

Now you're babbling about the Pittsburg Steelers. How convenient that my link won't open, but your link will. Yeah...sure....ok. Despite what your link says, coach Tomlin said that the players can either stay in the locker room or they can stand for the anthem...Oh yeah! He stated this in an interview on national tv.

You told me to use my "big brain" for the Mike Brown murder. You just said that, killer-cop Wilson shot Brown in the hand for assaulting him. Brown would then run away after getting shot in the hand. Killer-cop Wilson went on to pursue him. Brown would then charge killer-cop Wilson with his head down...Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?...So, if Brown had a gun, then why would he get shot in the hand, run away and return by charging with his head??? Really? Despite what you say...killer-cop Wilson gave (two contradicting statements) to the Grand Jury before his case went to trial. Yep, that kind of destroys your nonsense. In addition to that, killer-cop Wilson's former-police force was disbanded because of...….quote-on-quote...excessive force and corruption. Don't believe me? https://www.salon.com/2014/08/24/darren_wilsons_former_police_force_was_disbanded_for_excessive_force_and_corruption/

Now you're trying to say that anytime a black person and a white person gets into an altercation, the person is with BLM. You then go on to say that these people are part of a terrorist group...Dude, I've been labelled a Black Identity Extremist for speaking about black-related issues. Are you even aware that your government created this faux title a few years ago? Lol...Now Let's Look At The Facts On Who's Committing The Most Crimes.
1. Child Pedophilia Cases: White
2. Serial killers: White
3. School Shooters: White
4. Hate Crimes: White
5. Discrimination Crime Cases: White
6. Multimillion-Dollar Ponzi Schemes: White
7. Rape: White
8. Nightclub/Bar Shooting Cases: White
9. Job Site Shootings: White
10. Teachers Sexually Assaulting Students: White
11. Disorderly Conduct: White
12. Meth Arrests: White
13. Heroin Arrests: White
14. Cocaine Arrests: White
15. Police Brutality Cases: White
16. Grand Theft: White
17. Larceny: White
18. Arson Cases: White
19. Mass Murder Cases: White
20. Fake Police Reports: White
21. Tax Evasion: White
22. Bank Robbery Cases: White
23. Etc.

The funny thing about it is that I don't even need to justify the crimes by displaying percentages or stats. 

I'd also like to mention the case in Minnesota. So tell me...why haven't white people "backed the badge" when the Somali cop shot & killed the white woman who created a disturbance by banging on his patrol car in the dead of night? I'll wait...……………………….Yep, I just threw a monkey wrench in your whole game plan which proves you people are hypocrites. May I ask, where was Blue Lives Matter? I'll wait...…………………………………….

If Kaepernick didn't posses any talent then he wouldn't have been in the NFL so be thankful that you have enough talented players to even have a league.
The protests were about police brutality, not the disrespecting of veterans...Since you people try to portray that you're so patriotic, then let's take a quick trip down to our nearest military recruitment office and enlist for service?...…………………….Crickets...…………………………………………………

In conclusion, that long list of crimes above is courteous of yours truly. 
Oh yeah!...After you enlist for service, email me a copy for proof...………...I'll be waiting.


Added:
--> @mairj23
I have problem with he way their disrespecting the flag
Instigator
#21
Added:
Good luck to con.
#20
Added:
--> @Dr.Franklin
As expected, but you're the same guy who's got a problem with someone kneeling.
I rest my case.
Contender
#19
Added:
--> @dustryder
*******************************************************************
Vote Reported: dustryder // Mod Action: Removed
Points awarded: 1 point to pro for conduct
RFD: Thanks for both opponents for the debate
POOR CONDUCT:
Throughout the entire debate Pro was insulted by Con several times, this includes...
"I think your racist because you said:"All problems in the world is because of the white male""
And also,
"If you think Black people are not mentally ill, then you are racism you think a race is inertially different and worse than one race. Which is textbook racism, just admit you don't like white people. Just admit you are racist. Its not that hard."
And my PERSONAL favorite...
"my opponent ignores arguments and denies statistics."
Additionally Con has maintained an obnoxious, petulant and condescending attitude throughout the entire debate, this includes...
Refering to Colin Kaepernick as Kolin CRAPernick
And also,
"Protesting this on 9/11 WOW GOOD MOVE IDIOTS-"
And my PERSONAL favourite...
"Did you really just say that. Wow,just WOW. "
On the hand, in the face of Con's insults and attitudes which were downright disrespectful and condescending, Pro maintained a calm and logical demeanor.
All other points are tied as neither were particularly convincing and both of their sources and spelling were relatively good
Reason for mod action: Unless a debater forfeited more than half the rounds, one still needs to explain a tied argument point.
The voter should review the COC here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
The voter should also review this: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/346?page=1&post_number=4
*******************************************************************
#18
Added:
--> @Pinkfreud08
*******************************************************************
Vote Reported: Pinkfreud08 // Mod Action: Removed
Points awarded: 1 point to con for conduct
RFD: I would like to thank both opponents for this debate
POOR CONDUCT:
Throughout the entire debate Pro insulted Con several times, this includes...
" Yet again, let me address the nonsense that my antagonist is spewing."
And also,
" Yeah, that kind of obliterates the nonsense you're spewing."
And my PERSONAL favorite...
" I'm going to try to cover as much of this psycho-babble as I can. If you have to write a full-novel to get your point across, then it shows just how uninformed you truly are. "
Pro's insults were obnoxious and downright disrespectful to Pro who maintained a logical attitude.
All other points tied, neither convinced me and both had relatively good sources and spelling
Reason for mod action: Unless a debater forfeited more than half the rounds, one still needs to explain a tied argument point.
The voter should review the COC here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
The voter should also review this: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/346?page=1&post_number=4
*******************************************************************
#17
Added:
--> @mairj23
No, Im not going into the military
Instigator
#16
Added:
--> @Dr.Franklin
Hey man, have you went to your local recruitment office to enlist for service? It's been a few days and I never received the email as proof.
You also didn't explain yourself for (Not) supporting the Somali cop in the Minnesota case. Where's that patriotism for Blue Lives Matter?
Back the Badge?...………………….
Contender
#15
Added:
--> @dustryder
Meh, thats fair.
Instigator
#14
Added:
--> @Dr.Franklin
Absolutely. However that is not what he said. And apart from this, personal attacks just do not belong in a debate regardless
#13
Added:
--> @dustryder
I think its fair to call someone racist when they say
"Murder, theft, ponzi schemes, larceny, sexual abuse, pedophilia, hate crimes, perjury etc...equals the white male."
Instigator
#12
Added:
--> @dustryder
" Pro maintained a calm and logical demeanor."
lol
#11
Added:
--> @mairj23
"Fake Police Reports: White"
JUSSIE SMOLLETT
Instigator
#10
Added:
--> @mairj23
Sorry,I have real work to do.
#9
Added:
--> @DarthVader1
Step your game up, then come back and holler at me.
Contender
#8
Added:
--> @mairj23
Do I?
#7
#2
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Con outlined a series of statistical evidence that outline his position for why athletes shouldn’t take a knee: specifically given that he claims racial driven disparities don’t exist. While this feels like con strips out much of the context and doesn’t provide a full summary of the data, I have to accept this point pending rebuttal.
The remaining points don’t appear to have a good argument supporting them, and do not appear explicitly linked to the resolution: so i won’t anaylze them further.
Pros issue here is that he attacks cons data, which appears valid, rather than attacking the context of the data. This undermines pros position as it allows con to build up an appearance of legitimacy - pro needs to outline the bigger picture, to contextualize all the data. Instead of a broad and robust argument, the debate quickly deteriorated into the weeds, becoming a he said/she said argument surrounding who did what and when. None of this was able to move the needle away from con - due to the implicit lack of real context from the data as a whole I was given by pro, I can only score based on the context con gives me.
I feel pro quickly went off topic, lost site of the resolution and was far too passionate and emotionally engaged into the core of the argument, rather than focusing on the resolution.
Given this, pros focus on individual cases and questioning the statistics pushed me further into cons direction: without a clear bigger picture and working in raw stats alone, I have to give this one to con.
#1
Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
(note: repost bc of an error)
CONDUCT: CON
Blatent rudeness by the PRO is clear here. Labeling people as "racist" and raised from "racist values," is not an on topic debate discussion. Personal attacks violate the sites COC, and turns their racist definition around. PRO was more irratable with his know it all attitude, and his cussing, leads me vote for CON
S&G: Punctuation errors. Doesn't deteriorate the debate, so no changes
SOURCES: CON
Sources were used by both. PROs source was wikipedia, which I count as more of a "reference" than a source. I also don't buy organization sources. They usually are very manipulative and try to lean you in a direction so they can get a consumers support. The facts are somewhat fipped. The other sources were not bad. PROs sources were simply better. While PRO does use organizations, these were clearly better and showed less bias. With various articles coming from reliable sources, my vote goes CON
ARGS: CON
It was hard to follow this debate and it seemed hard to keep track of points. I have a lot of into to site and it comes down to clarity and overall meaning and source citations
PRO relies on police to be the people, and the victimization of blacks and racism toward them. CON focused a lot on civilian to civilian crime and how the result show that blacks lead the charge. These points are kind of answered by the PRO, but not to the extend of a complete dismantling of the PROs main issue by CON. He states the flaws of the Michael Braun case and uses source to prove the overhyped. I am lost in the PROs rebutal and it leads me in different directions. This ends up stirring away from the case as such. A drop topic I noticed in the debate form the flows is the BTM being terrorists, which is extended by CON, but dropped. CON extends a little, and gives me clarity.
When it all comes down, I think CONs dismantling of the case made by PRO will lean my ballot CON for the arguments. He keep his attacks safe and prevents damage and builds off a lost argument by PRO by extending enough for validation of the point