Disney Ruined Star Wars
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After not so many votes...
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I am Pro.
You may not use information from Star Wars The Clone Wars series, Star Wars Rebels, or any TV specials. Just the main OT, PT, DT, Rogue One, and Solo.
OT- Original Trilogy (IV-VI)
PT- Prequel Trilogy (I-III)
ST/DT- Sequel Trilogy or Disney Trilogy (VII-IX)
I loved the addition of Maul, Dooku, Windu, and Qui-Gon to the Universe.
they're thematically airtight for the most part... The main conflicts were sound, but the side plots like Anakin's love story are what people really hate.
The sequels haven’t ruined Star Wars. They have made it a lot better.
Con made the kritik that Star Wars was already ruined by the prequels, which is obviously false...the prequels did not ruin the saga by Con's standard (entertainment value) or mine (consistency).
If you will still defend the science of the originals, let me ask you this. Why can we hear sound whenever there’s a battle in space?
If you want to make a general point like that "the plot is bad", why not criticize the plot instead?
I don’t see how your point about Phasma is relevant, though. She served her purpose as a minor villain, and died. Were you expecting them to delve into her backstory for 20 minutes of screentime?
You add that “movies aren’t made by the romance”. I’m not sure if it’s romance, friendship, or a sibling-like connection, but I don’t see why you’re dismissive of character interaction. That’s what makes a movie worth watching, in my opinion.
You claim that the ST doesn’t have any bad-a moments like Vader’s appearance in Rogue One.
about Snoke, I agree that he wasn’t an amazing villain, but the way I see it, he wasn’t meant to be.
The sound is thematic. It isn't shown to be heard by the characters in the story. It is a theatrical embellishment.
In other words, Rey+Ben was not only a romance contrived by the screenwriters, but by Snoke as well. It is literally artificial.
Ren's turn to the light and defeat of Snoke would be more interesting if it wasn't literally just the OT's plot all over again.
Starkiller base was just another Death Star. Nothing original. BB-8 is just a new R2-D2.
They managed to keep the Luke/Rey training, but even that was only a cliched redo of Luke/Yoda,
By what metric are you deciding whether or not something “really happened” in a movie? What rules are telling you what counts as “embellishment” and what doesn’t? Because it seems to me that you’re only dismissing my point about sound in space because it’s inconvenient for your argument.
So, you have admitted that the story we see on the screen isn’t necessarily an accurate portrait of what happened in the Star Wars universe. In that case, couldn’t I argue that all the plot holes you mention are just “theatrical embellishment” as well?
You argue that the ships would be alright because, even without fuel, an object in space would naturally stay in perpetual motion in the same direction. But that’s exactly what was happening in the movie. They didn’t need fuel because they would stop moving if they ran out; they needed fuel in order to pick up speed and have a chance at escaping this standoff with the First Order ship. If they ran out, they would be stuck in perpetual motion, unable to change course or steer away from any obstacles - and that’s the problem they’re trying to solve.
Of course, there are plenty of ways the First Order could have captured them faster, but that doesn't necessarily make the story “impossible”. And certainly no reason to dismiss everything else in the movie.
In other words, Rey+Ben was not only a romance contrived by the screenwriters, but by Snoke as well. It is literally artificial.How is that a bad thing, though?
Many critics of the sequels lashed out at Force Awakens for being too similar to the originals, then lashed out at The Last Jedi for being too different. TLJ has its problems, but I don’t think anyone’s saying that it’s too much like old-school Star Wars. Rian Johnson was deliberately trying to avoid doing the OT’s plot all over again, and people gave him hell for doing it, so I’m a little perplexed at this comment. How is The Last Jedi a rehash of any of the original movies?
There are plenty of examples of prequels that turned out good: X-Men First Class, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, Better Call Saul. Even several Shakespeare plays, such as Richard II and Henry V, served as prequels to ones he had written earlier. In the hands of a capable storyteller, a prequel isn’t inherently harder to do. And even if they were, I don’t think most prequels suffer from incoherent writing, wooden acting, and horrific special effects to the extent that the Star Wars prequels do.
You could make a solid case that Disney is ruining Star Wars with the endless loads of sequels they're planning to dump on us every year. Or that the Star Wars fandom has been ruined by the endless fearmongering over "SJWs". But by limiting yourself to the 2 existing movies of the sequel trilogy, you've severely limited what arguments you can make.
If they need the fuel to avoid being stuck going in a straight line, then they should conserve fuel until they need it to avoid obstacles or change course.
Because society shouldn't supported contrived romance!...Rey's forced feelings are like having your spouse chosen for you by a random stranger.
Does "Dark Apprentice defeats his Master after being shown the light in himself by the main protagonist" Ring any bells for Return of the Jedi? Vader, Palpatine, and Luke? Now look at The Last Jedi. Ren, Snoke, and Rey fit the same roles.
I normally get annoyed when people Bump things too much, but a reminder a couple days before this left the voting period would have been nice.
"He had limited himself in the description by saying we could only use information from the main series movies"
"You may not use information from Star Wars The Clone Wars series, Star Wars Rebels, or any TV specials. Just the main OT, PT, DT, Rogue One, and Solo."
It could be argued they did not kill L3, merely enslaved and never mentioned her again...
As for the villains from the prequels, I disagree with calling them badly acted. Two of them had some great talent (not sure about the CGI guy), the fault lies with the director.
The most powerful and skilled force user of all time... In her sleep...
Disney: "Let's make Leia suddenly exhibit the Force, and also be capable of surviving the vacuum of space with only relatively minor side effects." XD
"The rebel fleet, traveling through the vacuum of space, should be able to maintain its speed without the additional expenditure of fuel for propulsion"
And of course Carrie Fisher's duex ex machina.
Could you be more specific? Both of my arguments mentioned burning fuel. And what do you mean by unconscious?
I had no problem with the fuel bit, but the related thing that if burning fuel they are accelerating, and then unconscious people fly faster than them...
Hello there. I will be both arguing two main points: that the prequel trilogy is awful and Star Wars was already "ruined" by them, and that the sequel trilogy is actually pretty good so far. Not perfect, but far better than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.
I could argue either side of that one. However, I have a job interview this weekend, so really shouldn't get involved in another debate (I've got a weird one going on right now).
I of course advise knowing the common arguments against it being outright ruined, and have counters ready. Expect minor K's in the form of 'well the old movies are not harmed' and 'well they can ignore it like that did with Star Trek: Intro Darkness' (obvious counter to the second being that rebuilding something does not mean it was not ruined).
Ruin: 1. cause great and usually irreparable damage or harm to; have a disastrous effect on.
2. fall headlong or with a crash, as in a collapse (usually of a building).
In this sense, they basically threw a couple too many cracks into the stained glass window. Midichlorians from the PT can be ignored because they're only important to the plot in that it allowed a convenient measure of Anakin's force ability.
The cracks from the DT are plot important and can't be ignored.