This site is disappointing

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 109

I really haven't had many worthwhile conversations on Dart. Most of the dialogue on here is inane banter, which is fine in portioned amounts, but tedious and pointless in large doses. The rest of the dialogue tends to be shallow opinions, which are poorly masqueraded as intellectual thought. It seems like I run into the same stupid cliches and debunked talking points, whenever I post something outside of the box, or when I post something with a large amounts of references. It is disappointing to think and write heavily on a topic, only for some idiot dickhead to post a drive-by response. This was also a problem on DDO, but at least you had enough non-idiot dickheads to post worthwhile things.

I thought most people came to sites like these to have interesting, intellectual conversations, of which the vast majority of people aren't capable of having irl (not to mention the social blowback). Instead, it's now clear that the majority of people on here (not all, to be fair) are here to waste everyone's time with half-baked posts, shallow opinions, inane activity, mafia and petty drama. Again, these things, to a small degree, help to keep a site interesting. But when the site is saturated in all this garbage, it defeats the purpose of a site like this. Nowadays, I think that a large proportion of the site has poor social skills, and the reason they come here is because irl socialising is too hard for them. 

I'm also not a fan of this moderation. Bsh seems to be doing a much better job, and I haven't seem much of Castin, but the mods before that were dreadful. I got banned out of nowhere, with no explanation, nor specification of how long it would be. I can't remember exactly how long it was (because I just stopped caring), but I remember attempting to log in like a month and a half after it happened, and was honestly shocked to see it work. That's poor moderation. This kind of incompetent moderation happen with other people, too. I've also seen some bloody inconsistent moderation, too, wherein some people have nine lives, whereas others have a gun to their head at all times. Airmax wasn't perfect, but he sure as hell was better than this, and it makes you realise how often he did get it right.

I might get an ironic banning, or perhaps this post will be deleted, but either way I don't care and it will only prove my points.

After all the hype, this site failed to deliver. 
--> @Analgesic.Spectre
Most of the dialogue on here is inane banter, which is fine in portioned amounts, but tedious and pointless in large doses. The rest of the dialogue tends to be shallow opinions, which are poorly masqueraded as intellectual thought. It seems like I run into the same stupid cliches and debunked talking points, whenever I post something outside of the box, or when I post something with a large amounts of references. It is disappointing to think and write heavily on a topic, only for some idiot dickhead to post a drive-by response. This was also a problem on DDO, but at least you had enough non-idiot dickheads to post worthwhile things.
I think this is fair enough to say. Some posts are half baked skim responses to what people say. I have to admit my flaws, I do tend to do this, however it is the essence that I am simply helping the website and trying to get the popularity running so people post. There are so many dry spots during the day, so some drama and things really boost activity a lot. I think you are fair it is excessive, but some people crave attention like that, and some do it to simply get this site active 
I thought most people came to sites like these to have interesting, intellectual conversations, of which the vast majority of people aren't capable of having irl (not to mention the social blowback). Instead, it's now clear that the majority of people on here (not all, to be fair) are here to waste everyone's time with half-baked posts, shallow opinions, inane activity, mafia and petty drama. Again, these things, to a small degree, help to keep a site interesting. But when the site is saturated in all this garbage, it defeats the purpose of a site like this. Nowadays, I think that a large proportion of the site has poor social skills, and the reason they come here is because irl socialising is too hard for them. 
To be fair, the last people on DDO were people that were forum, drama based people that wanted to continue the legacy of this website. I'm sure that intellectuals will come on the site by a year or so, but give it time. new website, and we already seeing a boom to a certain degree. not a boom you may like, but it is something that gives us hope. Plus Mike is the GOAT. He works hard on the site. I have very good people skills. I see frustration in people and can read it in an instant. I can start up convos and topics on this site. But I agree, some people lack social skills irl
I'm also not a fan of this moderation. Bsh seems to be doing a much better job, and I haven't seem much of Castin, but the mods before that were dreadful. I got banned out of nowhere, with no explanation, nor specification of how long it would be. I can't remember exactly how long it was (because I just stopped caring), but I remember attempting to log in like a month and a half after it happened, and was honestly shocked to see it work. That's poor moderation. This kind of incompetent moderation happen with other people, too. I've also seen some bloody inconsistent moderation, too, wherein some people have nine lives, whereas others have a gun to their head at all times. Airmax wasn't perfect, but he sure as hell was better than this, and it makes you realise how often he did get it right.
If this is true, then I have some troubling thoughts now... I think he is a better mod to be fair. I have not been on bsh's bad side, but he got a ton of shit for his modding and kinda changed his philosophy. His bans now have been justifiable.
I might get an ironic banning, or perhaps this post will be deleted, but either way I don't care and it will only prove my points 
I don't think you'll get banned.

Your not irrational nor are you insulting anyone. I'm sure he will listen to what you are saying. You and him agree on Drama and stuff too with the same point of it being in excess

--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I hope your experience on the site get's better :)

If you want to talk to me, just let me know. I may be 15, but I have a brain and I can engage in chats always. I tend to stay here because my forum friends from DDO were here, but I am open to new people so just ask. i don't bite

*bites into skin*
--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I think that this is kind of a function of an inexact CoC and a moribund debate culture. You can have argument with people who hold one of a limited set of canned opinions anywhere online, and it gets tiresome once you realize that they absorbed these opinions through osmosis and then rationalized them post hoc. A red flag for this is people who just don't change their mind, and tick every box on an ideological checklist. Usually these people can't even adequately defend their ideas, and the result is the same boring conversation played out a hundred times. A forum full of people like this is almost like a cave full of automatons, endlessly reenacting the same scripted battles. Intellectual exchange is only ever interesting when someone brings something fresh and original to the table, and defends their ideas not as some totem of identity but as rooted beliefs which they've cultivated through long debate and discussion. I think that you are like that, and I think that the DDO forums were successful because the debate segment of the site attracted people with this sort of mettle. However, people are increasingly afraid to express controversial views online, and if I were a lone internet sojourner with 'heretical' views reading this site's CoC it would set off a whole bunch of warning bells in my head, even though they aren't really enforced in a way that is super oppressive. I would take a look at most of the debates on this site and raise an eyebrow. And if I made a debate of my own and it got accepted by someone who just can't argue competently (a common occurrence) then I would probably say 'screw it'. The CoC is easy to fix, but the debate problem is likely bigger, and more of a problem, because it's an issue of critical mass. The internet environment in which DDO built up an ideologically diverse group of competent debaters simply doesn't exist any more.

Personally, I like the idea that Mike floated a while ago about people being able to form 'private threads' which were invite only, and in which the thread starter acts as a sort of thread mod. It would be really helpful to have a private thread where the membership was curated to include only people who can argue complex topics standing on their own two feet, to create a sort of oasis for people to retreat too when the rest of it becomes too tiresome. These threads could in themselves act as draws, as people might join the site in order to join a given discussion and later start debating. Debate challenges could arise there without certain members either weighing down the discussion or accepting every open debate and then filling the thing with incoherent word vomit.
--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I'm not sure what the backstory on your previous ban was, so I can't really comment on that. As for getting banned as a result of this thread? I doubt it. Apparently to get banned around here you need to create 30 sock puppet accounts, use every known profane word, harass approximately half the site, become best buddies with the other half, then directly insult a moderator in the final round of a debate, while holding a live badger, preferably all at the same time. That will get you a two day temp ban. Believe me, you don't want to know what it takes to get a permanent ban. That involves a cloak of invisibility, direct access to North Korea and the bowels of an elephant.

As for the rest of what you said,

Most of the dialogue on here is inane banter, which is fine in portioned amounts, but tedious and pointless in large doses. The rest of the dialogue tends to be shallow opinions, which are poorly masqueraded as intellectual thought.
I believe almost the exact same thing was being discussed in another thread recently, and I wholeheartedly agreed.
--> @ResurgetExFavilla
 I like the idea that Mike floated a while ago about people being able to form 'private threads' which were invite only, and in which the thread starter acts as a sort of thread mod. 
I actually have suggested several similar ideas, to at least make blocking trolls easier, and have not seen much traction. I don't know if the site owner is really considering features like this, but even if he is, such features don't seem like a top priority.

--> @Raltar
Getti g banned for insulting a mod who has openly stated people have a free pass to attack him. Taking a similar stance as what airmax took. Atleast openly taki g that stance despite using a fanboy of his to do his bidding

--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I've definitely had worthwhile conversations on DART. But you haven't really made any criticism of the quality of discussion that I feel couldn't be made of any public forum. I never keep my expectations that high on the internet. It's important to be realistic. You're not always gonna get the Algonquin Round Table.

A lot of the site's problems are probably due to it suffering from a pretty small community at present, because we haven't even started to advertise it yet. Mike says the site needs to spend a bit more time in the oven before it can handle larger crowds. I feel like some complaints about DART are down to impatience that it isn't becoming a polished finished product overnight. It's still pretty raw and it basically has only one guy working on it.

--> @Raltar
 I like the idea that Mike floated a while ago about people being able to form 'private threads' which were invite only, and in which the thread starter acts as a sort of thread mod. 
I actually have suggested several similar ideas, to at least make blocking trolls easier, and have not seen much traction. I don't know if the site owner is really considering features like this, but even if he is, such features don't seem like a top priority.
I'm interested. Though I'd rather have a quote system, signatures, or group PM's first, personally.

--> @Castin
I've definitely had worthwhile conversations on DART.
Yeah no offence, but you're not exactly a stellar poster. All I've seen you post is memey drivel. So, it's not surprising that you'd find "worthwhile conversations" on a website plagued with inane noise.

But you haven't really made any criticism of the quality of discussion that I feel couldn't be made of any public forum. I never keep my expectations that high on the internet. It's important to be realistic. You're not always gonna get the Algonquin Round Table. 
Wrong. I specifically said, "This was also a problem on DDO, but at least you had enough non-idiot dickheads to post worthwhile things." Try reading the entirety of my post, before you attempt to respond to it.

A lot of the site's problems are probably due to it suffering from a pretty small community at present, because we haven't even started to advertise it yet. Mike says the site needs to spend a bit more time in the oven before it can handle larger crowds. I feel like some complaints about DART are down to impatience that it isn't becoming a polished finished product overnight. It's still pretty raw and it basically has only one guy working on it. 
I'm sorry but did you even read my post? How on Earth did you conclude that my problem is impatience, when I complain about inconsistent moderation? How would waiting longer help rectify the incompetent mods?

If you can't be bothered to read my post before responding to it, don't tag me in your comments.

Thanks.



--> @ResurgetExFavilla
I think that this is kind of a function of an inexact CoC and a moribund debate culture. You can have argument with people who hold one of a limited set of canned opinions anywhere online, and it gets tiresome once you realize that they absorbed these opinions through osmosis and then rationalized them post hoc. A red flag for this is people who just don't change their mind, and tick every box on an ideological checklist. Usually these people can't even adequately defend their ideas, and the result is the same boring conversation played out a hundred times. A forum full of people like this is almost like a cave full of automatons, endlessly reenacting the same scripted battles.
Yes. They are literally NPCs.

Having said that, I don't think the average person has the time to properly research topics, in order to give worthwhile opinions (even if they had the I.Q. necessary). There isn't a fix for most of these people. Besides, politicians and media will continue to use psychological tricks to pump these useful idiots with whatever narrative they want -- not only do you have to wake these people up to fact that their political ideas are constructed through emotional nonsense, but you need to prevent other nefarious people from manipulating them.

Intellectual exchange is only ever interesting when someone brings something fresh and original to the table, and defends their ideas not as some totem of identity but as rooted beliefs which they've cultivated through long debate and discussion. I think that you are like that, and I think that the DDO forums were successful because the debate segment of the site attracted people with this sort of mettle.
Yeah, I agree with all of this.

I'd add to that the experimental ideas that people bring. Envisage and Wylted played devils advocate more often than he espoused his own beliefs, and it was exciting to read. 

However, people are increasingly afraid to express controversial views online, and if I were a lone internet sojourner with 'heretical' views reading this site's CoC it would set off a whole bunch of warning bells in my head, even though they aren't really enforced in a way that is super oppressive. I would take a look at most of the debates on this site and raise an eyebrow. And if I made a debate of my own and it got accepted by someone who just can't argue competently (a common occurrence) then I would probably say 'screw it'. The CoC is easy to fix, but the debate problem is likely bigger, and more of a problem, because it's an issue of critical mass. The internet environment in which DDO built up an ideologically diverse group of competent debaters simply doesn't exist any more.
I don't understand why people would be afraid of expressing controversial views online. The repercussions online are far less than irl. That's part of the reason why I like the internet so much: you can test and espouse views that would get you shunned irl, and face minimal blowback. The anonymity is a double-edged sword, but it certainly has major benefits.

I got banned on here, and my irl life didn't suffer at all. Most of the time, it doesn't matter what you say online.

Personally, I like the idea that Mike floated a while ago about people being able to form 'private threads' which were invite only, and in which the thread starter acts as a sort of thread mod. It would be really helpful to have a private thread where the membership was curated to include only people who can argue complex topics standing on their own two feet, to create a sort of oasis for people to retreat too when the rest of it becomes too tiresome. These threads could in themselves act as draws, as people might join the site in order to join a given discussion and later start debating. Debate challenges could arise there without certain members either weighing down the discussion or accepting every open debate and then filling the thing with incoherent word vomit.
But who would participate? Would there even be 10 people worth listening to on here? I'm happy to wade through the muck, like I used to do on DDO, because I'd find worthwhile comments sooner or later. 

But sure, if we had enough people to participate in such threads, then I think it would be a slight upgrade.



Honestly Anal, the quality of your own posts is often to merely mock users for participating in a site you yourself attend and apparently care enough about to make a 3 paragraph thread describing your feelings about. You seem to sort of go around judging people you don't know for leading lives you know nothing about, but assume to be deficient. No offense. Being mocking and judgmental isn't explicitly against the rules or anything, and I certainly don't claim to make diamond posts myself, but all the same, I really don't think you're in a position to be judging others for post quality.

But I was responding to your remark "at least you had enough non-idiot dickheads" on DDO. DDO had a much bigger population, so there were bound to be more users there who met with your approval. It's gonna take some time for DART to build up a bigger population.
--> @SupaDudz
I think this is fair enough to say. Some posts are half baked skim responses to what people say. I have to admit my flaws, I do tend to do this, however it is the essence that I am simply helping the website and trying to get the popularity running so people post. There are so many dry spots during the day, so some drama and things really boost activity a lot. I think you are fair it is excessive, but some people crave attention like that, and some do it to simply get this site active 
This isn't helping the website, in the long run. The website needs quality content, in order to survive. Merely having a whole lot of posts full of drama doesn't generate quality content. In fact, you're likely going to scare the potentially quality posters away, because they won't be interested in soap operas.

Having a little bit of drama is fine. Inundating the site with it is not.

To be fair, the last people on DDO were people that were forum, drama based people that wanted to continue the legacy of this website. I'm sure that intellectuals will come on the site by a year or so, but give it time. new website, and we already seeing a boom to a certain degree. not a boom you may like, but it is something that gives us hope. Plus Mike is the GOAT. He works hard on the site. I have very good people skills. I see frustration in people and can read it in an instant. I can start up convos and topics on this site. But I agree, some people lack social skills irl
Before you joined DDO, there used to be quality content at a semi-regular pace. Sure, there was drama and bs. But there was sufficient quality content that people of intellectual merit would wait around for it.

I'm not looking for hope, either. People were hopeful DDO wouldn't die. Now look at it. We need results.

Also, I haven't seen enough of your posts to determine whether what you write is worthwhile.

If this is true, then I have some troubling thoughts now... I think he is a better mod to be fair. I have not been on bsh's bad side, but he got a ton of shit for his modding and kinda changed his philosophy. His bans now have been justifiable.
I don't know if it was bsh that banned me (I actually doubt it). I think it was before he was a mod. But yes, from what I can tell (not a whole lot tbh), bsh seems to be doing a great job.

I don't think you'll get banned.

Your not irrational nor are you insulting anyone. I'm sure he will listen to what you are saying. You and him agree on Drama and stuff too with the same point of it being in excess
I'm fairly certain bsh isn't the only mod. I'm referring to the incompetent mod who banned me before.

I hope your experience on the site get's better :)

If you want to talk to me, just let me know. I may be 15, but I have a brain and I can engage in chats always. I tend to stay here because my forum friends from DDO were here, but I am open to new people so just ask. i don't bite

*bites into skin*
Lol I don't need to talk to anyone, as if I need to rant. I made clear points on why this site is disappointing, and that's all that needs to be seen. This has less to do with "my experience", and more to do with the health of the entire site.

--> @Wylted
Getti g banned for insulting a mod who has openly stated people have a free pass to attack him. Taking a similar stance as what airmax took. Atleast openly taki g that stance despite using a fanboy of his to do his bidding
I'm not gonna tolerate the kind of behavior I saw in a moderated formal debate. Live with it.

I always wondered why you didn't just make an unmoderated debate for some "anything goes" fun. I would so have enjoyed that.





--> @Castin
Honestly Anal, the quality of your own posts is often to merely mock users for participating in a site you yourself attend and apparently care enough about to make a 3 paragraph thread describing your feelings about. You seem to sort of go around judging people you don't know for leading lives you know nothing about, but assume to be deficient. No offense. Being mocking and judgmental isn't explicitly against the rules or anything, and I certainly don't claim to make diamond posts myself, but all the same, I really don't think you're in a position to be judging others for post quality. 
I mock people, like you, whom post emotional, tangential, irrelevant fits like this. You're just proving my point that you're another example of shallow, drivel-posting detritus that clogs the site with nonsense -- someone who should be mocked.

Sorry.

But I was responding to your remark "at least you had enough non-idiot dickheads" on DDO. DDO had a much bigger population, so there were bound to be more users there who met with your approval. It's gonna take some time for DART to build up a bigger population. 
You don't understand what you're writing about, all because you weren't on DDO during its peak. On DDO, during its peak, it had a noticeably higher percentage of active users posting thought-provoking content. Here, Dart is plagued with NPC dialogues and other malignant messes.

Some friendly advice for you, Castin: before you type on topics you know nothing of (something you accused me of lol), actually think about whether you know what you're talking about. Otherwise, you will get called out and get your underwear in a horrid twist, like you did here.

Just trying to help :)
--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I don't think your ban was representative of what moderation on this site is like now.

I'm also pretty sure that your post/this thread won't get deleted. 
--> @Castin
Hypocritical bullying is the Aristocracy here. Don't mess with them, your rank means nothing to them.

They have full influence of bsh1 as he yearns for their acceptance. Analgesic is free to insult and taunt users and tell them to not give a shit about the site while also showing she cares a deep amount about the site and its contents. If you so much as get caught smirking at the irony, kingladdy and REF will pile on you and make fun of you unless another of the clique does it for them.

Prove me wrong, keep trying.


Hypocritical bullying is the Aristocracy here. Don't mess with them, your rank means nothing to them.
Mate, it's a frigging online debating site. I'd be embarrassed to admit that I spend my time maintaining a little, insignificant title on a nearly empty site. If you're so desperate to go on a power trip, go and do it irl where it actually matters.

They have full influence of bsh1 as he yearns for their acceptance.
Lol who the hell is "they?"

Besides, what do you expect bsh to do: yearn for their rejection?

Analgesic is free to insult and taunt users and tell them to not give a shit about the site while also showing she cares a deep amount about the site and its contents. 
I care for intellectual, wholesome discussions, but I do not care for the location. I thoroughly detest the trivialities regularly showcased on here. If I can't find satiation here, I will search elsewhere. The future of this website is of no interest to me.

If you so much as get caught smirking at the irony, kingladdy and REF will pile on you and make fun of you unless another of the clique does it for them.
Yes, little boy. The whole world is against you.

Now, keep me blocked and get out of here.
--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I expect bsh1 to care about the ones who give a shit to fund the site via Patreon, who spend blood and sweat and tears giving high quality feedback to a broken system and who care so passionately they snap at times to those triggering them.

He cares nothing for people and is a scarily inefficient power-yielder whose only goal is a smile on the face of those he thinks are popular enough to be valid to comment.

In time his method will backfire though, I have seen plenty of mods in the past. Bsh1 will fall horribly at some point, Mike needs to analyse who cares, who funds and who is truly having his back when it comes down to it. 

You're so mad at bsh for banning you twice that you literally couldn't see anything else I wrote that wasn't in reference to bsh.

You're not just a hot head, you're a volcanic head.
Funny how Wylted and me as well as Drafter are 75% of the funding-base for the site that doesn't get a single thing in return for it other than a colour swirl which Drafter never bothered to ask for and I also haven't got yet.

Funny how the ones who laugh, cackling sadistically in the seats, as they prod, throw tomatoes and abuse anyone who is passionate enough to take the limelight and care about the site or advocate an unusual idea at time are the ones Bsh1 helps and supports even punishing the guy on stage if they retaliate in a way that's less abusive.

I am not the type of guy you want to be fucking around with Spectre, but if I explain why that would get me banned.

Keep at it, don't cry about the justice system actually working for once if you go get backlash for it. Abuse Castin and anyone else who cares remotely about the site. Keep taunting and prodding us shitposting your way through your campaign against shitposting.

You're a sad troll to the community, out to drag us all down to your level of loathing anyone who tries hard at the site and then the next day you make the most passionate 'omg we aren't trying enough with post quality' that completely contradicts the whole 

>caring about an online site pahahahah

Attitude you mock others with.

--> @Analgesic.Spectre
Eh that post was only "emotional" by, like, Vulcan standards (live long and prosper). As for irrelevant, I disagree -- you're talking about the quality of posts and discussions on this site, and I was talking about the quality of some of your own posts and what they contribute to discussions on this site. I think the kind of personal mocking you do can degrade rather than enrich discussion, and in fact create more of the very same petty drama and shallow discourse you're complaining about -- a complaint I think makes a valid point, btw. So I think it's pretty relevant.

It's cool to see you care about the site a bit more than it previously appeared, though. I mean, before now I would've expected you to point and laugh at someone who had written as much text about DART as you have now in this thread. No matter what I think of any of your posts, I do think people on the internet ought to have thick skins, and I'd rather have you around than not have you around. Dat controversy. Currently reading this baby.

It may have been early enough that it was actually Mike who banned you. In the first few weeks of DART, he banned a few people without talking to them. This was before a moderation interface had even been coded. I can definitely understand the objection to being banned without notice. That's against policy now. But I'm not certain it was Mike. Can't even recall why you were banned. I think I remember a flamewar where you and Rash were revealing behind-the-scenes behavior about a member that... disturbed me.
Funny how the ones who laugh, cackling sadistically in the seats, as they prod, throw tomatoes and abuse anyone who is passionate enough to take the limelight and care about the site or advocate an unusual idea at time are the ones Bsh1 helps and supports even punishing the guy on stage if they retaliate in a way that's less abusive.
If you can recall correctly (you don't), you'd realise that you instigated this interaction with your passive-aggressive attack on me. I hadn't mentioned you at all, up until then.

I am not the type of guy you want to be fucking around with Spectre, but if I explain why that would get me banned.
I know you think I'm a complete pushover because I'm a girl, but I have my own history of unsavoury interactions, and they haven't exactly ended me.

Keep at it, don't cry about the justice system actually working for once if you go get backlash for it. Abuse Castin and anyone else who cares remotely about the site. Keep taunting and prodding us shitposting your way through your campaign against shitposting.
Again, Castin instigated our interaction by posting passive-aggressive comments about me. Thus, I responded in kind. Seeing the pattern?

Also, I'm not campaigning for anything. I merely made an extended comment on the state of this site, being as factual as I possibly could.

You're a sad troll to the community, out to drag us all down to your level of loathing anyone who tries hard at the site and then the next day you make the most passionate 'omg we aren't trying enough with post quality' that completely contradicts the whole 
Lol the timeless 'hurr ur trolle' comment.

I'm going to mock triviality in all its forms. I see someone so proud of a silly, insignificant title as trivial. I see the incessant banter on the forums as trivial. I see mafia as trivial. I don't mind the odd quip or plunge into frivolity, but (again *sigh*) when it's incessant, you're going to hear from me. And if you don't like me shining a bright torch on your actions, then perhaps it's your actions that need fixing, not the torch.

>caring about an online site pahahahah

Attitude you mock others with.
Yeah, it's rather comical the extent to which you're hysterically supportive of it. If you can't stand me typing that, then get out of this thread and never write to me again.


--> @Analgesic.Spectre
I will be in your thread as much as I please. What are you going to do about it? Don't for a second thing you can chase me off your thread, I am allowed to be here.
--> @RationalMadman
I'm just talking to Anal person to person right now, so I'm not asking my "rank" to mean anything to anyone.

I have really got to find a better nickname/shortening. Gesic? Spec? No, they don't fit. I'll find something.

Why do you think bish "yearns for their acceptance"?