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@ludofl3x
Like I said, retard.
Incontrovertible evidence of a god...but uh oh!.... (Thought Experiment)
Posts
Total:
90
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@ludofl3x
The Ultimate Reality certainly is God, I will not fall for these tricks of the devil.
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@disgusted
Yes, throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you deny The Truth itself.
Foolishness.
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@ludofl3x
Suppose you were presented with a three-sided square. Would you still believe squares had four sides?And Mopac, you're coming from you believe in Jesus and even when presented with incontrovertible proof that there wasn't any jesus or god or ultimate truth, you chose to deny it anyway and be punished forever. Again, where is that incorrect?
I hope that makes no sense to you, because it was intended to be nonsensial! The point is that to mopac 'presented with incontrovertible proof there wasn't any jesus' makes no more sense than me presenting you with a three-sided square and expecting you to make some sort of meaningful response.
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@keithprosser
It seems a bit of a false equivalency: I'm not going around claiming that squares REALLY only have three sides and those who think they have four are all deluded, then being presented with incontrovertible evidence of a figure with four equal edges and only right angles being a square and still choosing to say "fine, but the one with three sides is still the only square."
Given how little sense I can make of anything that guy says in response to any question, I'm not sure the problem lies with my thought experiment. I've had plenty of people take this one on without all this struggle, believers and non-believers alike, too.
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@ludofl3x
I'm guessing the problem is that the scenario is unimaginble to a certain type of theist. A trolley problem can be visualised without creating a paradox but my 3-sided square cannot. It could be that a disproof of god (or of their particular conception of god) appears paradoxical to mopac et al in way it does not seem padoxical to non-believers.
Or maybe theists aren't much good dealing with hypotheticals!
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@ludofl3x
I mean if the trolley problem were ever really presented, I don't think anyone can know what they'd do...
You're going to love this - [LINK]
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@ludofl3x
Let's say tomorrow you wake up to find that indeed, an almighty power DOES exist, and said power has provided evidence overnight to the entire earth of its existence. It's all over the news, it's doing interviews, it's demonstrating its powers, it's explaining the meaning of life, etc. etc. In short, there is literally no way to deny its existence. There's one problem though: it's some god OTHER than the one your grew up worshiping. To use the Christian example, it's definitely not Jesus or the holy spirit or god or the ultimate truth, it's absolutely something or someone different. Good thing for you, though, this deity is granting amnesty from retribution for not believing in it, for a limited time! It knows it could have communicated better, or been more present, but the long and short of it is that he doesn't blame you. He does, however, demand that you present yourself to him within 48 hours, bend the knee and renounce your old belief. You can do it and enjoy his good graces, or you can deny it, and be sent to some equivalent of the punishment you used to fear from your old religion.Would Christians then immediately renounce Jesus? Muslims Allah? Hindus their pantheon? Etc. Etc. Etc. Remember now, this is unquestionable evidence. There's no doubt this thing exists.
Incontrovertible evidence? Sounds like a foregone conclusion. Where do I sign up? Let me be the first to welcome our Holy Overlords.
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@Mopac
I see you are still incapable of responding to any and all posts.
No it's that theists are too stupid to exist yet. Fucking bigots.
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@ludofl3x
You can't prove there is no Truth.
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@ludofl3x
This is why an omnist view of spirituality and religion makes mores sense and in all aspects superior, because then the position is that religions are observing and interpreting basically the same reality with many dynamics involved rather than one particular group of people that have the only truth about God, have the only answers, that is nonsense and completely immature. God doesn't speak or give revelations to only one group of people and leave everyone else in the dirt, no that is not how this works. All religions and paths of spirituality have truths and errors as the process of spirituality is about observing what is true and what is baloney and this involves religious knowledge as a whole.
If this interests you at all feel free to test it and ask whatever you want about it. I wasn't always in this position I had to come to a place where I know this is true and I can answer anything you need to know.
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@EtrnlVw
I'm not sure how that pertains the thought experiment at hand. You've voted, you already took on punishment. In fact, you even say if it WAS Jesus, you wouldn't believe it was Jesus! I don't get you at all. EDIT: This was for Mopac, not you Eternal. This next one's for you.
wasn't always in this position I had to come to a place where I know this is true and I can answer anything you need to know.
I'd ask how you know you're right and everyone else is wrong, what is the proof and why so few agree with you. But I think the words realms and planes and spiritual and revelation will be in there, the hallmarks of bullshit deepities. It's also not the topic at hand. TO make your view the topic at hand, the being that shows up is not ALL gods, and doesn't agree with you, you've been wrong, but it's willing to allow you to continue your existence and avoid eternal punishment provided that you renounce your former convictions as false. Would you do so? Say "I am clearly wrong, you are the true deity," or would you say "Well in fairness to me, I believed in ALL gods and religions, so technically, I DID believe in you" knowing that this being would be able to unequivocally confirm if it was in your venn diagram of viable deities.
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@Mopac
You can't prove there is no Truth.
Not a claim I've ever made. Also, not the topic.
The dumbest thing about this is if some being shows up and says I am god atheists buy it. Anyone who believes in god must be a dipshit by the atheists standard. Guess all you need to do to do run an atheists life is say you are god and slap them once or twice. Yet theist are the mentally ill, child abusing, mental retards.
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@ludofl3x
I'm not sure how that pertains the thought experiment at hand.
Why not? do you know what Omnist means?
You've voted, you already took on punishment. In fact, you even say if it WAS Jesus, you wouldn't believe it was Jesus! I don't get you at all. EDIT: This was for Mopac, not you Eternal. This next one's for you.
wasn't always in this position I had to come to a place where I know this is true and I can answer anything you need to know.
I'd ask how you know you're right and everyone else is wrong,
I never said everyone was wrong, and who is everyone? I'm not the only Omnist. I'm simply pointing out that all religions have truth and errors, this is also obvious correct?
what is the proof and why so few agree with you.
It's obvious and common sense. Why would God only relate to one group of people when every soul comes from the Creator? common sense man....
But I think the words realms and planes and spiritual and revelation will be in there, the hallmarks of bullshit deepities.
Lol let me know what it is you want to know or ask.
It's also not the topic at hand.
I'm giving you another angle to look at this from, do you have a problem with that?
TO make your view the topic at hand, the being that shows up is not ALL gods, and doesn't agree with you, you've been wrong, but it's willing to allow you to continue your existence and avoid eternal punishment provided that you renounce your former convictions as false. Would you do so? Say "I am clearly wrong, you are the true deity," or would you say "Well in fairness to me, I believed in ALL gods and religions, so technically, I DID believe in you" knowing that this being would be able to unequivocally confirm if it was in your venn diagram of viable deities.
Someone with an Omnist view doesn't have to do any of that, which is my point. And there is no eternal punishment, that's a farce. Religions are observing from the same source mixed in with many things.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The dumbest thing about this is if some being shows up and says I am god atheists buy it.
You continue to struggle with the whole idea. There is no more "believing" in any god once this thing shows up. It's there, there's proof of it. Everyone would "buy it" the same way that we "buy" that the sun rises every day from the east, or that we buy "water is wet." Maybe sit out further posts until the next time whatever institute you're in brings you back to the library and your handler forgets to keep you away from the public access computer. You're mad, I get it. It's tedious when you don't add anything at all. Just because I believe YOU are mentally ill does not mean I believe THEISTS AS A GROUP are mentally ill. And before you say it, no, believing you are mentally ill doesn't make me a bigot.
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@ludofl3x
But the Jesus that we believe is The Word of God who as St. John the Theologian writes...
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
So The Word of God that is God, or as is written in the Creed of The Church.. "Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."
Or as St Jammes the Just writes...
"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
So to make it very clear, to say Jesus Christ doesn't exist is to say there is no truth, because Jesus Christ is The Truth.
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@EtrnlVw
Why would God only relate to one group of people when every soul comes from the Creator? common sense man....
I cut all that other stuff down to just this. Demonstrate the creator and then convince every religion ever, each of them exclusive of the other, that they were all wrong and YOU'RE right.
Someone with an Omnist view doesn't have to do any of that, which is my point. And there is no eternal punishment, that's a farce. Religions are observing from the same source mixed in with many things.
Then maybe someone with an omnist view can just say "I don't want to play by the rules of the experiment" and not post? There's a whole thread on justifying why you believe what you believe. This thread's about what you'd do if presented with incontrovertible evidence that WHATEVER you believe is 100%, undoubtedly incorrect, and you have the chance to recant or be punished for what then becomes willful ignorance. You don't believe in eternal punishment, okay, but that wouldn't stop you from being eternally punished in this scenario. I think you're like the other two theists who voted: they'd rather cling to their beliefs in the face of fact.
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@Mopac
So to make it very clear, to say Jesus Christ doesn't exist is to say there is no truth, because Jesus Christ is The Truth.
And to make it even clearer, even if presented with undeniable evidence that Jesus from your bible never, ever existed, you'd still believe he did. Right? Or would you say "I love truth so much that even when it doesn't fit with what I want or what I used to think about it, namely that it was also Jesus, that I'm going to have to abandon anything related to Jesus because it clearly and unquestionably was not true."
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@ludofl3x
According to you if a being says I am god we are supposed to buy it. You are too stupid to even realize that many theists say this about other gods all the time without hating other theists. I am not mad, I hate you. Big difference.
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@ludofl3x
Demonstrate the creator
So now this is about demonstration and not a discussion?
and then convince every religion ever, each of them exclusive of the other, that they were all wrong and YOU'RE right.
I don't have to, they can believe whatever they want, it is obvious and the alternative is baloney. Very simple.
Then maybe someone with an omnist view can just say "I don't want to play by the rules of the experiment" and not post?
It is you that doesn't want to play, not me. I can't play that game because that is not my beliefs. If you don't want to discuss this from this angle fine, bye bye.
There's a whole thread on justifying why you believe what you believe. This thread's about what you'd do if presented with incontrovertible evidence that WHATEVER you believe is 100%, undoubtedly incorrect, and you have the chance to recant or be punished for what then becomes willful ignorance. You don't believe in eternal punishment, okay, but that wouldn't stop you from being eternally punished in this scenario. I think you're like the other two theists who voted: they'd rather cling to their beliefs in the face of fact.
This is simply a strawman which is why it can't be answered.
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@EtrnlVw
keith said the same thing from the other side and bigot troll was ok with it.
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@ludofl3x
What you are asking commes from a fundamental misunderstanding concerning the nature of The Son's person.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Wouldn't surprise me none.
ETFOOL
Oh please mean it, the kindergarten has been much better without you.If you don't want to discuss this from this angle fine, bye bye.
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@ludofl3x
You were a bigot before you ever spoke to me you fucking prick.
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@disgusted
I'm sure it was, easy pickings.
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@Mopac
Prove that someone called St John the theologian wrote this."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
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@disgusted
You can't prove something to someone who says "Prove to me that it is true that there is truth!"