More Guns Thread

Topic's posts
Posts in total: 111
More { weapons } = more sanity?
Sure

More { weapons } = more security?
No

More { weapons } = more peace?
No

More  { weapons } = less crazy people to abuse them?
Correlation does not mean causation


More  { weapons } = intellectually best path forward for humanity?
Putting the equation aside, the general idea probably holds true if you mean more people assume responsibility for themselves, unless the intellectually best path forward is savagery.  If savagery is preferable, than probably not.

More { weapons } = humanities best short term solutions to violence?
No
--> @Outplayz, @mustardness, @Alec
I made a place to reply on the topic of expansive gun ownership in the interest of defense.  Enjoy.

--> @Snoopy
Sure

If more guns { weapons } = more sannity, then why did humanity choose to reduce the insane number of hydrogen bombs?

Why did USA and USSR choose to go off high alert status in the early 90s?

Why then has Union of Concerned Scientist now reset doomsdays clock  to closet point { 2 minutes } to apocalyptic doomsday since the cold war?
--> @mustardness
Oh yeah, I'm only referencing small arms suitable for personal defense.
--> @mustardness
It's impossible to remove all the guns in the world.  The number of nukes/hydrogen bombs on the other hand are gradually getting reduced and it is therefore possible to eventually remove all of the hydrogen and nuclear bombs.  It's not like an individual can get nukes illegally like they can for guns.
--> @Snoopy
The problem with this topic is that we've never done it. I can't think of any country that has this sort of "wide open carry" type situation. All i'm saying is if we can try banning "assault rifles" for a short time, why can't we try the opposite and see what happens. However, this is a two edged problem. Although it may save some lives (or not), if we can't figure out poverty and crime as well... there will always be violence no matter what we do. I just think more armed would be a safer reality than a bunch of sheep running around waiting for the wolves. 
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts, @mustardness, @Alec
Moved to the More Guns Thread


DPirate....What % of gun crimes are committed by males w/o father figures?  I'd bet it's very high.
What percentage of gun crimes are from people who do not have access to guns?

More guns { weapons } is just plain dumb and is takes away from resources that humanity needs for living, not killing.

The easier access to guns is sign of the level of intelligence of humanity.

There was a rational, logical common sense reason for USSR and USA to pull back from Mutuallly Assured Destruction.{ M.A.D}.

There exists rational, logical common sense set of reasons for humanity to put away their desire to have weapons to kill each other.

This is obvious conclusion to mature and mentalitty balanced adult humans. How we get to this on a global scale is a seperate question. First humanity has to unite behind and idea. The idea that we want humanity to survive on Earth for longest time period possible.


--> @mustardness, @Alec
Alec: If you ban guns, people will get them illegally.
You mistated you argument. If'we' i.e humanity, ban all guns {weapons } by destroyng the ones we have, and no mass-production  of guns, then some indivdduals will build them.  Why would they build them?

Because they are crazy, or the sane ones know crazy people exist on Earth? Is there an alternative way to deal with these crazy people?

No there is no other ways to deal with crazy people than guns? We dont know which crazy people are crazy until they kill { bite } us?

Do some people go crazy because others intent is to drive.

That is insane


--> @Snoopy
Gun policy is a political topic. Why are you trying to shoehorn it into miscellaneous?
--> @dustryder
This is the "More Guns Thread" not the "Gun Enforcement Policy" thread, although I have no intention of limiting such discussion if it interests you.  Its for people to discuss expansive ownership of small arms.
--> @Outplayz
"I can't think of any country that has this sort of "wide open carry" type situation."

The closest example I can think of is Sweden. 
There are some states with premissive gun laws and some of them have the lowest gun murder rates.  It's common logic and backed by interviews of criminals that they seek easy victims.  Cost/benefit the chances of a big muscled man being robbed or mugged is far less than an elderly female.  should we ban all elderly females?
Which house is more likely to be robbed, one that appears to have a survivalist living in it or similar?  Or the home of some beta male who doesn't even know how to start a push mower?
this all holds true for armed vs unarmed

if concealed carry was unregulated, it would seem logical that there would be a higher risk of a random person being armed.  Now let's take this a step further.  What if everyone or most wore something under their clothes that printed in such a way it could appear to be a gun?  Now you have a situation where anyone that wants to can easily be armed and everyone or most everyone appears that they are.  How do you choose a victim?  Not so easy anymore is it.  Now the risk has increased greatly, for many, much more than any potential reward.

Since mass shooting victim numbers are directly tied to how long it takes for the shooter to be stopped, more people with guns who have the opportunity to stop them = less victims.
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts
The closest example I can think of is Sweden.
I'm aware Sweden has some pretty relaxed gun laws.. but do they let you carry anywhere? I feel like the answer is no, but i don't know. 

how to start a push mower?
I'm definitely not Beta, but i'm also not Alpha how it's usually portrayed... but i have no idea how to start a push mower... never had one or needed one. lol. I'm sure it's easy though... but i get what you mean. 

Yes. That is exactly how i see it (the wolves going after sheep). Why would they struggle or be in danger when they can pick a victim that's easy pickings? I also think gangs don't progress out of their areas bc they know everyone is armed. I think a clear indication of what potential gangs have to grow is seen in South America. So, already, citizens owning guns the way we do benefits us. We really need to arm everyone... i'm totally on board with that idea. 

There are arguments against that... accidental shootings will go up, collateral damage, but... i think all of that can be minimized with proper training. I would be okay with making a one week training course, or something like that, for people that want to carry. Just to minimize any damage this type of open carry law would have. Maybe even, if someone can't pass the training... they can't carry until they do. I don't know. We are creative enough to figure it out. I personally think whatever argument there is against it will fall short in this new world... for criminals will truly have to think twice. But i don't know... we've never tried it. I say F* gun control... and lets do, umm... idk, what would be a catchy phrase? You make it up. F* control more guns? i suck at slogans.  


--> @mustardness, @Alec
Alec: but so does arming civilians and teachers for defense.
Mustardness:

More guns { wepaons } on Earth is dumb.  Humans are dumb and barbaric.  How does a dumb and barbaric humanity survive the most years forward on Earth. Not by building and dispersing guns { weapons } to more and more humans.

Why do you think USSR and USA got rid of so many hydrogen bombs? Because is was M.A.D.  Maybe you still dont grasp what M.A.D means some 30 years later.  Mutually Assured Destruction of humanity on Earth


--> @Outplayz
an armed populace would be extremely hard to control, consider a what if scenario in Venezuela.  this down play that it could never happen in the U.S. it wouldn't do any good etc I find a bit concerning.  Even in these countries the military doesn't always support the dictator, not 100% of the military anyway.  How else could regimes falls, which they have.  Then you have the likes of Spartacus running for 2020 and his federal licence b.s., people should be very concerned about people like him and what he espouses.  Given the platforms most if not all the dummycrats are running on Trump should remove as many gun restrictions as possible while he can.
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts
an armed populace would be extremely hard to control
I absolutely agree. Although i have progressive type views, i believe some things just need to be left alone for good reason. It's okay to be progressive in my opinion, bc humans evolve... but, i always say it's a mix bw the two. Be progressive but in a conservative way. Think through what you are doing, and test it. I feel we have done that with gun laws and i don't see any gun law that would stop mass shootings in particular. That is a low percentage of gun deaths however. The real question is what it would do where the most gun death happens. I really don't know in that case. Would it help reduce gang crime, would gang crime stay the same, or will it get worse? Bc ultimately, gangs aren't going to stop being gangs. As long as we have a black market... they're in business. So i don't know up to that level. I think they would be scared to go after the random citizen... but what will it do to the in-fighting? I don't think it would change personally... which is why i believe it would be safer. 

Then there are the arguments of "people will just shoot each other in bar fights when drunk" "the teachers will shoot kids trying to run away" "they aren't trained enough to handle a situation" "Cops would shoot the wrong person" ... those are most arguments i here against it... but i think they are all wildly fantasy scenarios.  
--> @Outplayz
would gang crime stay the same, or will it get worse? 
there would no longer be a need for a gun black market, so gun thefts would no longer be worth the risk.

it's an interesting question which imo would be like the cold war, you have equally armed opponents who know if either one starts the fight the losses will be great on both sides and there really won't be a winner.  the battlefield would now be level.  I don't believe a rival gang would go after a better armed one so if there's a balance/equality it's a stalemate I think.
A larger group would still be at a disadvantage going after a smaller group who is better/more armed.
High causality rate is probably not a good recruitment tool for gangs.
Some of the problems with everyone being armed are vigilante groups which could form as a neighborhood watch, though they may not as everyone being armed sounds like a great crime deterrent.
So long as people are imperfect accidents will happen just as they currently do.  Though I would advocate for no cost training and practice.  Tax payers pay for law enforcement training which should also be open to anyone else interested in relation to the topic.

Another school shooting in Colorado, the shooters stopped shooting when they were stopped (by students) which is often the case, unfortunately one of the students was killed because all they could do is throw bodies at them.  another armed person could have changed what happened for the better.  They were very lucky it turned out like it did.
--> @Outplayz
D-Pirate....So long as people are imperfect accidents will happen just as they currently do.
Duhh, that is just one  of the precise reasons  humans stopped M.A.Destruction in the 90's. It was a minimal  brainer then and still is a minimal brainer.

"Cops would shoot the wrong person"
Duhh, they already shoot innocent people on purpose much less and error of who deserves to be shot.  War is hell and being a cop is a just step below the hell of war. Tho both are often given benifit of doubt.

Trump just pardon some USA soldiers accused of murder{?} in Iraq?

More weapons instead of less weapons on Earth is dumb.  War is "obsolete" { Fuller } because the ultimate tool of war is hydrogen bomb.

Humans are dumb and barbaric. The question then becomes how stupid will humans be in the coming years?  Their lack of response to  to Erratic Climate Change is evidence how stupid humans and smart humans tend toward.  My guess it will come to too little too late as there are many who feel we are already over the PPMillion limit of irreriversable  runaway Erratic Climate Changes due to Global Warming { greenhouse effect }.

So yes, lest continue to create more nucelars waste and a host of other toxic waste around the planet and ability for more and more humans to get The Bomb!.  Sad :--(

--> @mustardness
I agree humans are stupid... but if they're dumb enough to assault someone with a 357 on his side, then they deserve being wiped off this earth. Maybe everyone carrying is what it will take to clean this earth up. Fact is... you don't know what will happen bc we've never tried it. I say we do and see what happens. Being a gun enthusiast myself... i see how fast even the dumbest human gets humbled when they hear that first gun shot. Maybe we should fear each other in order to humble ourselves and understand our differences. 
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts
balance/equality it's a stalemate
Yes, indeed. But i don't think the gang problems will be fixed until we fix ourselves. We need to realize freedom again. The two main contributions to these gangs are sex and drugs. I don't see why prostitution is illegal, i don't see why drugs are illegal. If we want to focus on evil, we can't muddy the waters by putting resources into punishing people that just want to live... have some sex and do some drugs. They're just being human and we are punishing them for that. I personally think we need to rewrite a lot of our laws. Our priorities are very off imho. Just imagine... in such a world where we allow people freedom, people would likely allow full invasion of privacy. Why not? If i'm not going to get punished for just doing things that doesn't hurt anyone... then there could be cameras everywhere. Then we can focus on the people that really have something to hide... murders, rapists, people harming us. I don't know... but i think we're headed that way, but only if we stop calling things evil and wrong that just aren't. I know i digressed, but ultimately, i think if we don't figure that out... gangs will war, kids will kill, insanity will create chaos. Being armed against that is the first step. It also would show the majority are good and we don't need daddy to tell us what's right or wrong. Idk, it's just a dream lol. 

Though I would advocate for no cost training and practice.  Tax payers pay for law enforcement training which should also be open to anyone else interested in relation to the topic.
That's a great idea. Yeah... i wouldn't want country wide carry without some kind of training and practice for those that want to carry. I'd go as far as making it tough and you can't carry until you pass the course. I think that would greatly minimize a lot of the potential harms. 

Another school shooting in Colorado
Yeah i noticed. They're lucky on two fronts 1) getting rushed; and 2) this kid probably wasn't the best shot. What really bugs me about these school shootings is how little people understand the mindset of these kids. Blaming it on games, bad parenting, media, etc. They don't understand it's all of that... but most importantly, it's an absolute lack of fear of dying and an outward projection of chaos. That's what got me into trouble when i was young. I went the drug route bc i had an inward projection of chaos... But yet, i have a loving family, i had everything i needed, i didn't think anything of the games i played, or movies... they all played a factor in who i was, but it was society as a whole... life in general that i was battling. So i get where these kids are coming from... so, i know there is no law that will stop them. I'm not trying to say pity them, i just know there are no laws that will stop them. This will continue to happen bc people like them exist, and now they know how to create that chaos without opposition.  
--> @Outplayz
life has no value to these kinds of people and it's getting worse imo.  Consider when one of these nut jobs kills some people, family members whatever and then kills themselves, that just makes no sense at all.
you are right there's no fear of consequences or even being killed, in some of these cases their goal is to be killed.

If you look back you can see the trend that has lead us to this point imo, lack of respect and morality has snowballed into what we are experiencing now.  Unfortunately you can't put the genie back in the bottle nor turn back the hands of time.  This is our new normal.  All anyone can do is protect them and their own the best they can.
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts
Consider when one of these nut jobs kills some people, family members whatever and then kills themselves, that just makes no sense at all.
Being a teen with my own demons it makes sense to me. I was never on the level of truly ending my life or others... but i had that anger. It really has little to do with everything else although everything else does effect it. It's just an internal battle... and a lot of F* this world mentality. That is the route cause. That internal voice that just wants to see the world burn. Some deal with it and defeat it like i did, some turn it on themselves, and some turn it on others. People like this will continue to exist until we figure out why they want the world to burn. At that age i can tell you, it's usually feelings of not belonging, girl problems (or boy problems), depression and anxiety, isolated thoughts, ignorance, fear that you'll always be like this, fear that you're cursed, fear that this reality is a punishment, etc.

If you look back you can see the trend that has lead us to this point imo, lack of respect and morality has snowballed into what we are experiencing now.  
That has to do with it but what teen really has respect or understands morality? Like i said above, if you want to understand why... you have to understand why they get to the point of wanting to inflict chaos. If i take myself as an example, it was what was going on around me. I had popularity but i wanted more, i had girls that liked me, but i didn't see them... it's bc it was an internal battle of feeling this reality is a curse. I imagine this is going up bc of social media. So not only is it what they see around them that they think they don't have, it seeing the world happy and not knowing why they're cursed. I would bet a lot of them have this internal struggle. This is what happens. The people with everything flaunting what they have will always have a consequence on those that have nothing (or think they have nothing). Humans are like wolves, you push them in the corner they will bite. But at least with wolves you know a bite is coming... with humans you don't see it coming. 

I really don't know what will fix this other than fixing ourselves and rethinking our priorities. 


--> @Outplayz
I really don't know what will fix this other than fixing ourselves and rethinking our priorities.
Getting fixed is a phrase also used for neutering an animal.

Getting a fix on a location aka triangulating.

Satisfying a fix { fixation } is also used for acquiring the drug their addicted to.

Producing more guns and making  them more easily ccessable to all people is M.A.Destruction or N.U.Ts

Mass murder by sick-n-the-head people is harder to do with kitchen utensil.  So they will start looking for farmers phosphate ---Timothery McVeigh and Terry Nichiols ---- if they have the intellectual abilities and then they can take out even more people than they could with an assault weapon.

The homegrown militia-men have not gone away, they have evovled into the racist alt-right. Duhh, ..'nice people on both sides'.... states Con-Artist-Trump

..."One recurring theme running through many of the shocking images and videos that streamed from Charlottesville on Saturday was that of heavily armed men in camouflage, walking through crowds while carrying semiautomatic weapons and tactical gear."...



--> @mustardness
Producing more guns and making  them more easily ccessable to all people is M.A.Destruction or N.U.Ts
And letting people be sitting ducks is sane? 

--> @Outplayz
they fail to see the big picture and future technology, if you haven't yet, look up diy lowers.
--> @TheDredPriateRoberts
diy lowers.
Yeah... it will eventually be easy to make. We're basically there.