JESUS condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths in HELL

Author: BrotherDThomas

Posts

Total: 133
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
  “You don't even believe in original sin so it is deceitfulfor you to suggest that Paul in the latter verse is attributing it to Eve.  Everyone noticed your running away.  Genesis and Paul were in accord with eachother.   Paul does not suggest Eve wasresponsible for the Original sin. He says Eve was deceived. Adam is responsible.’

You comically stated that “He says Eve was deceived. Adam is responsible." Huh?  Read the passages below, therefore how can Adam be responsible subsequent to EVE eating the forbidden fruit FIRST AND FORMOST in initiating the original sin!
Yes let me repeat myself. Obviously you are having trouble grasping what I am saying.  Paul tells us that sin entered through one man - Adam. Now so far you have not denied this doctrine although you clearly do not believe it, thus denying the WORD of God. I have no issue with Eve eating the fruit first. Can you show anywhere where what she did is called sin? Or will you just assume it? For the record I think it was sin - but not the original sin. Hence she cannot be responsible for the original sin. 

1.  Who ate the forbidden fruit FIRST before Adam did, therefore initiating the original sin FIRST?  Correct, it was EVE as the transgressor

"When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.” ( Genesis 3:6))

I don't have an issue with Eve eating first. But where is it called sin? Did Eve transgress the covenant of works? Absolutely. But is it called sin? And is what she did "the original sin". I say no. Adam committed the original sin. 

2.  Who agreed that EVE ate the forbidden fruit FIRST and then gave it to Adam? Correct, it was Jesus with His inspired word!

“To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ (Genesis 3:17)
Again I have no issue with agreeing that Eve ate the forbidden fruit first and that she gave it to Adam. But is it called sin? Or are you just making it up as you go along? I know you really need it to be sin - but is it ever called sin? 

3.  Who agreed that Adam was not deceived, but EVE was the FIRST to be deceived and transgress in initiating the original sin?  Correct, it was Timothy!  

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” (1 Timothy 2:14)
Boring. Paul told Timothy that Adam was not deceived but Eve did. She transgressed. But is it ever called sin? And was what she did the original sin? I say no. Why? Because Adam was the head of the home. And if Adam had acted like a man - he would have told her to repent of her sin - and beg for forgiveness from God. She would have died - and sin would not have been passed on from generation to generation. Adam was the covenant representative of the family. It was when the head of the family sinned - it became original sin. Again - I ask you - explain the difference between sin and sins. Your ignorance and avoidance of this question is making you look like a bigger fool than you need to be. 

4.  Who agreed with the aforementioned passages that EVE was the FIRST to sin, therefore being the originator of original sin?  Correct, it was Paul!  

“But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.” ( 2 Corinthians 11:3)
The verse does not say that Eve sinned first. It says she was deceived and ate the fruit first. She was led astray and I agree it was into sin - but it was not original sin. Again you have no clue. Until you can distinguish between sin and sins - you live in ignorance. Have you heard of the word covenant? 


keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
God let Pharaoh do what Pharaoh wanted
We aren't told what Pharaoh would have done if God had not hardened his heart!   Given that God took the trouble to do so implies Pharaoh might well have let the Israelites go.  God forced Pharaoh to do what God wanted him to do on that specific occasion.

We are talking about a story written before philosophers had spilt gallons of ink on 'free will'.  I doubt the scribes who wrote Exodus ever discussed 'free will'!  

Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,555
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Yor lying
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret



.
Tradesecret,


YOUR INEPT QUOTE: “What did you prove? Did you prove Paul wrong? Seriously!So you don't believe that Paul's words are the words of God? You really have aproblem reading and understanding.”

Barring your horrific spelling and where you cannot separate words, conversely, don’t you believe that Timothys words are the words of Jesus as well when he stated that Adam was not deceived, but Eve was the one deceived and transgressed FIRST?  You are really making a fool of yourself in your posts of late!  LOL


YOUR REVEALING QUOTE MAKING WOMEN 2ND CLASS: “Adam committed the original sin as covenant head.”

I see, therefore this is the start of making women ruled by their husbands!  So this is where it started that women are 2nd class citizens, not only towards their husbands, but also in the eyes of Jesus since He created the covenant situation in the first place.  No wonder the bible treats women in disrespect!


YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE: “Adam knew it was wrongto eat the fruit.

NO, he did not know it was wrong because HE HAD YET TO EAT THE FRUIT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE WHEN EVE HANDED IT TO HIM TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, GET IT?  ARE YOU THAT DUMBFOUNDED TO MAKE AN IGNORANT STATEMENT LIKE THAT? OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE!   Jesus H. Christ, why do you let yourself be made the bible ignorant fool all the time?


Here is my gobbly-gook presentation on the whole Adam and Eve narrative that is equal to your comical presentations:

The bottom line is Eve ate the forbidden fruit FIRST, therefore she committed the original sin FIRST, barring any perceived notion of a covenant  where Adam HAS YET TO RULE OVER HER AT THIS TIME!!! GET IT? Original sin was initiated in the Garden of Eden, otherwise, why do they call it the "FALL?"

Besides, the original sin scenario was all a setup by Jesus as our Jewish Yahweh God incarnate because He created the serpent known as Satan in the first place and allowed it to deceive Eve, what a nice Guy, huh?  Also, in Jesus being omniscient, He knew beforehand that Eve was going to go against His command, and subsequently Adam as well relative to eating from the Tree of Knowledge! I am telling you, Jesus was a real schemer!  

Since the earth was void before the creation of man and woman, Jesus as God was seemingly bored, so He took his vindictive modus operandi out upon His first couple by knowingly having them initiate the original sin so He could place guilt upon them and their following earthly passengers!  Therefore, He now had something to do until the end of time, especially when Jesus brutally murdered His creation in the following years, praise!



TRADESECRET:   Since you are too SCARED to fill out a biography page, in what division of Christianity do you follow? Are you a Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, JW, or?


.




BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


.
Tradesecret,

YOUR MOST REVEALING QUOTE RELATIVE TO FREE WILL IN YOUR POST #57!!!!!! : " I think free will is true"

Thats it!  You "THINK" free will is true?  You are NOT in an absolute state on this topic?!  When one "THINKS" it is true shows that they are in doubt! You are now DONE in holding any further discussion on the topic of Free Will because you showed your hand to all! LOL!

As explicitly shown on my godly free will topic, YOU DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN, PERIOD!  Now, I told you before to take a Reading Comprehension Class so you won't be made the Bible fool all the time, remember?  Again I will give you an online class that you desperately need so as to not be so biblically ignorant!  

Reading Comprehension 101

You have yet to realize that Jesus is watching you make a mockery of His Christianity because of your bible ignorance! (Hebrews 4:13)



.



Harikrish
Harikrish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 550
2
1
3
Harikrish's avatar
Harikrish
2
1
3
-->
@BrotherDThomas
TRADESECRET:   Since you are too SCARED to fill out a biography page, in what division of Christianity do you follow? Are you a Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, JW, or?


Tradesecret claims he is a, "For the record, I am not a Catholic. I am a protestant. Indeed a Presbyterian - in Australia. We are reformed and reforming if that makes sense."


BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Harikrish
@Tradesecret


Harikrish,

WTF?!  If this is true that the biblically dumbfounded Tradesecret is a member of the UNGODLY DEMONIC PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, then it is no wonder he doesn't accept Jesus' true words as shown within the true scriptures, but instead, he tries to rewrite them as if they were spoken by Satan himself!

The Satanic PRESBIES have been reforming their pagan church since it's beginning in the mid 1500's, where they are still changing Jesus' true words today!  What Christian church have you heard of that accepts Gay Marriage, and still believes in Jesus the Christ where He said that all gays should be murdered and their blood shall be upon them?  Yes, the pagan Presbyterian Church, BLASPHEME!!!

Thanks for the "heads up," where since his biography page is as vacant as his mind regarding the Bible, I am sure he wouldn't have told me his particular division of Christianity being a Presbie because he is probably to embarrassed about it to have told me. What a joke.


.

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,068
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Yep. 

A perfect example of how modified conditioning, can results in a slightly different output..

You have been conditioned to assume that god data is externally meaningful and so relate sin to it.

Whereas I do not assume that god data has an external meaning. Therefore god and sin are just held as internal data.





Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@keithprosser
We aren't told what Pharaoh would have done if God had not hardened his heart!   Given that God took the trouble to do so implies Pharaoh might well have let the Israelites go.  God forced Pharaoh to do what God wanted him to do on that specific occasion.

We are talking about a story written before philosophers had spilt gallons of ink on 'free will'.  I doubt the scribes who wrote Exodus ever discussed 'free will'! 

That just shows that you don't understand the Hebrew word in question.  The word means - let of the shackles. It is a picture of God holding Pharaoh back like the dog on a chain - and then letting him of the leash. Or like God is a dam holding back water and then opens the gates. God was holding Pharaoh back from acting consistent with his nature - and then let him of the chain to do whatever Pharaoh wanted to do. 

This is the meaning of the words in the Hebrew. You cant just ignore their meaning - by referring to the English translation of an idiom. Or I suppose you can. The point is though - God did not force Pharaoh to do what he did - prior to that time God's force - was a holding back - and restrain - a keeping a dog on the chain. 
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
“What did you prove? Did you prove Paul wrong? Seriously!So you don't believe that Paul's words are the words of God? You really have aproblem reading and understanding.”

Barring your horrific spelling and where you cannot separate words, conversely, don’t you believe that Timothys words are the words of Jesus as well when he stated that Adam was not deceived, but Eve was the one deceived and transgressed FIRST? 
The book of Timothy was written by Paul, not Timothy. I explained I don't have an issue with Paul's words. I agreed that Eve transgressed first. I just stated that her sin was not the original sin - the one that cause humanity to fall. For the record - it is probably correct to state the Satan sinned first. 

“Adam committed the original sin as covenant head.”

I see, therefore this is the start of making women ruled by their husbands! 
Actually, I think her sin enabled that to take place. Yet, Adam being the head or ruler does not make females inferior or children for that matter. It just means that Adam was responsible for what happened. 

“Adam knew it was wrong to eat the fruit.

NO, he did not know it was wrong because HE HAD YET TO EAT THE FRUIT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE WHEN EVE HANDED IT TO HIM TO KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG, GET IT?  
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil did not give him the capacity to know wrong, it gave him the capacity to decide what was right and wrong. Adam knew it was wrong - why else would Eve question Satan? Also - they knew their was a consequence of eating it - death. It is just silly to say Adam did not know it was wrong. 

The bottom line is Eve ate the forbidden fruit FIRST, therefore she committed the original sin FIRST, barring any perceived notion of a covenant  where Adam HAS YET TO RULE OVER HER AT THIS TIME!!! GET IT? Original sin was initiated in the Garden of Eden, otherwise, why do they call it the "FALL?"
I never disagreed that Eve sinned first. I have maintained that her sin was not the original sin. Yes, first in time can mean original for her - but it does not follow that it was original for humanity.  This is why I say to you: distinguish sin from sins. You still have not because your brain does not understand what the bible talks about. Adam's sin according to Paul brought death into the world, not Eve's. You have yet to explain that point. I have. 

Besides, the original sin scenario was all a setup by Jesus as our Jewish Yahweh God incarnate because He created the serpent known as Satan in the first place and allowed it to deceive Eve.  Also, in Jesus being omniscient, He knew beforehand that Eve was going to go against His command, and subsequently Adam as well relative to eating from the Tree of Knowledge!  
All those things only demonstrate that God knows all things and is omniscient. It might even go towards first causes. but it does not go at all towards understanding second causes and responsibility. Your ignorance is astounding. 


TRADESECRET:   Since you are too SCARED to fill out a biography page, in what division of Christianity do you follow? Are you a Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, JW, or?
No - what have I to be scared about. Why would I give you any opportunity to squirm out of discussing these matters - and give you information so you can attack me ad hominin? Because that is what you will do immediately you know my background - because that is how people like you think you can argue. You don't have an argument against my points - so you attack me or my church or my background. I wonder if that is what you will do? 
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret
Strong’s Definitions
קָשָׁה qâshâh, kaw-shaw'; a primitive root; properly, to be dense, i.e. tough or severe (in various applications):—be cruel, be fiercer, make grievous, be ((ask a), be in, have, seem, would) hard(-en, (labour), -ly, thing), be sore, (be, make) stiff(-en, (-necked)). LINK

@keithprosser
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
I'm very ready to admit I know nothing about idioms in ancient Hebrew!  I'd be interested to know how you got your expertise - or are you relying on the say-so of an unnamed 'expert'?

Are you sure you're not adopting an interpretation because it suits your prejudice?   In any case I don't see a problem... it's only a story!



Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherDThomas
 Don’t you realize the membership is watching your outright stupidity regarding this topic?

I get a lot more satisfaction and hilarity watching yours. 
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
therefore she committed the original sin FIRST
It really gets my goat when people use the term 'original sin' wrongly!

'Original sin' is the state of sinfulness we are all born with - it is 'original sin' in the sense it belongs to our beginning (origin) to be a person.

It doesn't refer to the 'first sin ever commited'. 

It's like 'immaculate conception' - Jesus was not the subject of 'immaculate conception'.  

Mary - and no-one else - was born without original sin (see above!).   Mary was 'immaculately conceived' in her mother's womb.  This was so the mother of jesus was herself sinless.

So Adam and Eve did not commit the 'original sin' and 'immaculate conception' is not an alterative term for 'virgin birth'.

</peeve>




BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen


Stephen,


Shhhhhhhh, I have already applied enough proverbial egg upon your face for a lifetime regarding your blatant bible ignorance and perceived knowledge of Christianity, therefore, to save even further embarrassment, just STFU and you will be better off, understood?  Good.


.

BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


.
Tradesecret,



NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!

TRADESECRET IS TO EMBARRASSED TO TELL DEBATEART IN WHAT DIVISION OF CHRISTIANITY HE FOLLOWS, BLASPHEME!

TRADESECRET’S DISRESPECTFUL QUOTE TOWARDS CHRISTIANY AND JESUS, #70:  "No - what have I to be scared about. Why would I give you any opportunity to squirm out of discussing these matters - and give you information so you can attack me ad hominin? Because that is what you will do immediately you know my background - because that is how people like you think you can argue. You don't have an argument against my points - so you attack me or my church or my background. I wonder if that is what you will do? "

As shown above in one of the most embarrassing quotes a Christian could ever make in front of a Religious Forum, and in front of Jesus as well (Hebrews 4:13), is for TRADESECRET being to embarrassed to tell us in what division of Christianity that he follows! Unbelievable disrespect towards Jesus and his church!  

TRADESECRET is obviously ashamed and HIDES from his choice of which church he attends, where he goes directly againt this Jesus inspired passage: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

TRADESECRET goes against another Jesus inspired passage where his church must not be honorble, herewith: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

TRADESECRET is mocking Jesus outright because he continues to HIDE from telling us in what division of Christianity he follows, to wit: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galations 6:7)

TRADESECRET cannot defend his choice of a church affiliation by not being able to follow Jesus’ words herewith: ”We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

TRADESECRET obviously cannot hold firm to the trustworthyness of his church because he is to embarrassed to tell us what church that is: ”He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)


As I have explicitly and biblically shown, I have attacked Tradesecret upon his Satanic position of trying in vain to rewrite the Judeo-Christian bible to his unbiblical way of thinking. Now to make it even worse for Tradesecret, he hides behind one of the lamest excuses that most of us have ever seen, and that is not telling us in which division of Christianity he follows.  This can only surmise that he is to embarrassed to tell us, or he is hiding something that he cannot defend and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! 

TRADESECRET, WHAT CREDIBILITY YOU HAD LEFT ON DEBATEART HAS PLUMMETED TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL AS YOU EMBARRASSINGLY TRY TO WEASEL OUT OF YOUR PARTICULAR ACCEPTANCE OF CHRISTIANITY! WE CAN ONLY WONDER IN WHAT YOUR CHURCH WOULD THINK BY NOT MENTIONING IT, BUT ONLY TO RUN AWAY FROM IT AND JESUS AS WELL!

TRADESECRET, DO YOU SMELL SULFUR YET? YOU ARE DONE, PERIOD!


.
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@keithprosser
I'm very ready to admit I know nothing about idioms in ancient Hebrew!  I'd be interested to know how you got your expertise - or are you relying on the say-so of an unnamed 'expert'?

Are you sure you're not adopting an interpretation because it suits your prejudice?   In any case I don't see a problem... it's only a story!
hi Keith,

I preached from this passage recently - in the past 12 months - and was referring to commentaries and a book on word pictures. I will have a look and find out where I obtained the information. it is readily available. It was not first time I have heard it. I used that picture because it is helpful. give me a couple of days - and remind me if I have not got back to you. I lent some books and will need to go back to the library to get the source. 
 
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas

"No - what have I to be scared about. Why would I give you any opportunity to squirm out of discussing these matters - and give you information so you can attack me ad hominin? Because that is what you will do immediately you know my background - because that is how people like you think you can argue. You don't have an argument against my points - so you attack me or my church or my background. I wonder if that is what you will do? "

As shown above in one of the most embarrassing quotes a Christian could ever make in front of a Religious Forum, and in front of Jesus as well (Hebrews 4:13), is for TRADESECRET being to embarrassed to tell us in what division of Christianity that he follows! Unbelievable disrespect towards Jesus and his church!  

TRADESECRET is obviously ashamed and HIDES from his choice of which church he attends, where he goes directly againt this Jesus inspired passage: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

TRADESECRET goes against another Jesus inspired passage where his church must not be honorble, herewith: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

TRADESECRET is mocking Jesus outright because he continues to HIDE from telling us in what division of Christianity he follows, to wit: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galations 6:7)

TRADESECRET cannot defend his choice of a church affiliation by not being able to follow Jesus’ words herewith: ”We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

TRADESECRET obviously cannot hold firm to the trustworthyness of his church because he is to embarrassed to tell us what church that is: ”He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)


As I have explicitly and biblically shown, I have attacked Tradesecret upon his Satanic position of trying in vain to rewrite the Judeo-Christian bible to his unbiblical way of thinking. Now to make it even worse for Tradesecret, he hides behind one of the lamest excuses that most of us have ever seen, and that is not telling us in which division of Christianity he follows.  This can only surmise that he is to embarrassed to tell us, or he is hiding something that he cannot defend and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath! 

Well I guess I was right, eh? Ad hominin attack after attack. I take your refusal to answer or respond to my points above a concession to the topic. I accept your defeat. 

Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@keithprosser
therefore she committed the original sin FIRST
It really gets my goat when people use the term 'original sin' wrongly!

'Original sin' is the state of sinfulness we are all born with - it is 'original sin' in the sense it belongs to our beginning (origin) to be a person.

It doesn't refer to the 'first sin ever commited'. 

It's like 'immaculate conception' - Jesus was not the subject of 'immaculate conception'.  

Mary - and no-one else - was born without original sin (see above!).   Mary was 'immaculately conceived' in her mother's womb.  This was so the mother of jesus was herself sinless.

So Adam and Eve did not commit the 'original sin' and 'immaculate conception' is not an alterative term for 'virgin birth'.
I am happy with that explanation to an extent. Although I think that Adam's fall from grace is whereby "original sin" arose.  Without his fall from grace we might still be in an estate of grace and not in an estate of sin. 

I don't hold to the view that Mary was sinless.  I am not sure that Jesus was without original sin. He was sinless of course. Yet, this is why I have been asking Brother DT to explain the difference between sin (original sin) and sins (sins we individually commit as a result of the fall. He has not bothered - I suspect because unlike you he does not see the difference. 


Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,555
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
another shutdown of BrotherD!!
keithprosser
keithprosser's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,052
3
3
3
keithprosser's avatar
keithprosser
3
3
3
-->
@Tradesecret
I don't hold to the view that Mary was sinless. 
It's Catholic dogma.  My point was that people tend to use the term 'immaculate conception' in refernce to  the virgin birth of jesus, which is just plain wrong! 

Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Shhhhhhhh, I have already applied enough proverbial egg upon your face for a lifetime



 Indeed you dole out egg to every member so often you must have your chickens on overtime.



,just STFU 

Now now 'brother' , I have had warnings for using such acronyms as you well know, you have complained enough about them.
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


Tradesecret, THE RUNAWAY FAKE CHRISTIAN,

YOUR PATHETIC LITTLE BOY DOUBLE COPY QUOTE: "No - what have I to be scared about. Why would I give you any opportunity to squirm out of discussing these matters - and give you information so you can attack me ad hominin? Because that is what you will do immediately you know my background - because that is how people like you think you can argue. You don't have an argument against my points - so you attack me or my church or my background. I wonder if that is what you will do?"

You are so inept regarding the Bible, you didn't have anything else to say in your embarrassment, other than your SAME LAME QUOTE from your last quote? Priceless!


TRADESECRET is calling my APPROPRIATE JESUS INSPIRED PASSAGES AS AD HOMINEN ATTACKS, even though they are 100% appropriate  to his embarrassment of running away from telling us which division of Christianity that he follows?! Are you kidding?! This action by the FAKE Christian TRADESECRET is very telling, where if the truth were known, what would his church think of him running away from it in embarrassment which admits that his church is open to embarrassment!!!  Priceless admittance, thank you TRADESECRET!  


This is probably the first time on DebateArt where a FAKE Christian like TRADESECRET whimpers in front of the membership that by using Jesus' TRUE WORDS against them, as I have shown below, are ad hominem attacks and is just not fair, boooo hooo cry baby, *sniff, sniff!"

TRADESECRET
 is obviously ashamed and HIDES from his choice of which church he attends, where he goes directly againt this Jesus inspired passage: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

TRADESECRET goes against another Jesus inspired passage where his church must not be honorble, herewith: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

TRADESECRET is mocking Jesus outright because he continues to HIDE from telling us in what division of Christianity he follows, to wit: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galations 6:7)

TRADESECRET cannot defend his choice of a church affiliation by not being able to follow Jesus’ words herewith: ”We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

TRADESECRET obviously cannot hold firm to the trustworthyness of his church because he is to embarrassed to tell us what church that is: ”He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)


TRADESECRET'S THOUGHT BUBBLE:  "I shouldn't be responsible in having to tell everyone my division of Christianity, but in turn, I can still attack others of different religions and divisions of their faith, so there, neener, neener, neener!  I can't defend my church of choice against the Brother D and others, so it is better that I remain silent to save what face I have left in this forum, even though it makes me look unchristian to my faith and church.  I will continue to throw out "smoke screens" to hide behind, because if I actually told this forum my church affiliation, they would probably laugh and make me the greater fool than what I am now, shhhhhh!  It is a good thing that no one knows who I am at my church on DebateArt because they would look down upon me by being too embarrassed to respect them and to tell others in what they represent!   'I am sorry Jesus, hopefully you understand that I can't defend your division of the faith, okay?"


TRADESECETS biblical knowledge is as EMPTY as their biography page where there is NOTHING within it, other than to RUNAWAY from the questions that it asks of its members! How pitiful is that, and TRADESECRET wants to be called a Christian? NOT!

TRADESECRET, RUN AWAY FROM YOUR EMBARRASSING CHURCH AND BIOGRAPHY PAGE, RUN IN THE NAME OF SATAN!  LOL!!!


.


BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE: "Now now 'brother' , I have had warnings for using such acronyms as you well know, you have complained enough about them."

I have NEVER complained about your inept tactics of using profane words.  I want you to use them because it continues to show in just  how weak you are by having to talk in that manner! Therefore, please continue to your expletives as you try in vain to have cogent responses to the members of DebateArt, okay?  Thank you.


.
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
"No - what have I to be scared about. Why would I give you any opportunity to squirm out of discussing these matters - and give you information so you can attack me ad hominin? Because that is what you will do immediately you know my background - because that is how people like you think you can argue. You don't have an argument against my points - so you attack me or my church or my background. I wonder if that is what you will do?"

TRADESECRET is calling my APPROPRIATE JESUS INSPIRED PASSAGES AS AD HOMINEN ATTACKS, even though they are 100% appropriate  to his embarrassment of running away from telling us which division of Christianity that he follows?! Are you kidding?! This action by the FAKE Christian TRADESECRET is very telling, where if the truth were known, what would his church think of him running away from it in embarrassment which admits that his church is open to embarrassment!!!  Priceless admittance, thank you TRADESECRET!  

This is probably the first time on DebateArt where a FAKE Christian like TRADESECRET whimpers in front of the membership that by using Jesus' TRUE WORDS against them, as I have shown below, are ad hominem attacks and is just not fair, boooo hooo cry baby, *sniff, sniff!"


TRADESECRET
 is obviously ashamed and HIDES from his choice of which church he attends, where he goes directly againt this Jesus inspired passage: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

TRADESECRET goes against another Jesus inspired passage where his church must not be honorble, herewith: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

TRADESECRET is mocking Jesus outright because he continues to HIDE from telling us in what division of Christianity he follows, to wit: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galations 6:7)

TRADESECRET cannot defend his choice of a church affiliation by not being able to follow Jesus’ words herewith: ”We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

TRADESECRET obviously cannot hold firm to the trustworthyness of his church because he is to embarrassed to tell us what church that is: ”He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)

TRADESECRET'S THOUGHT BUBBLE:  "I shouldn't be responsible in having to tell everyone my division of Christianity, but in turn, I can still attack others of different religions and divisions of their faith, so there, neener, neener, neener!  I can't defend my church of choice against the Brother D and others, so it is better that I remain silent to save what face I have left in this forum, even though it makes me look unchristian to my faith and church.  I will continue to throw out "smoke screens" to hide behind, because if I actually told this forum my church affiliation, they would probably laugh and make me the greater fool than what I am now, shhhhhh!  It is a good thing that no one knows who I am at my church on DebateArt because they would look down upon me by being too embarrassed to respect them and to tell others in what they represent!   'I am sorry Jesus, hopefully you understand that I can't defend your division of the faith, okay?"


TRADESECETS biblical knowledge is as EMPTY as their biography page where there is NOTHING within it, other than to RUNAWAY from the questions that it asks of its members! How pitiful is that, and TRADESECRET wants to be called a Christian? NOT!

TRADESECRET, RUN AWAY FROM YOUR EMBARRASSING CHURCH AND BIOGRAPHY PAGE, RUN IN THE NAME OF SATAN!  LOL!!!
Again, since you have no rebuttals - no arguments in respect of our discussion - then once again  - there is nothing for me to respond to. You are defeated. I take no particular pleasure in defeating a dunderhead. But there you have it. You have actually run out of anything useful to say. 
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


TRADESECRET, THE RUNAWAY FAKE CHRISTIAN,

As I have stated ad infinitum, I need to know your division of Christianity for me to continue A TRUE discussion about your blatant bible ignorance, understand YET?! Huh? Now, go and hide from your church affiliation, shhhhhhh, mums the word!  WWJD?

You just keep running away from your church affiliation because you are too embarrassed about it, and I will keep showing you to be one of the most biblically ignorant FAKE Christians on Debate
BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret


TRADESECRET, the runaway FAKE Christian,


YOUR EMBARRASSING CONTRADICTION IN TERMS QUOTE #79: "I don't hold to the view that Mary was sinless.  I am not sure that Jesus was without original sin. He was sinless of course.”

HUH?  WHAT DID YOU SAY?!  First thing, where do you get the authority to usurp Jesus' inspired modus operandi within the scriptures as Yahweh God Incarnate?  Then you Satanically claim that YOU ARE NOT SURE THAT JESUS AS GOD WASN'T BORN WITHOUT ORIGINAL SIN, AND THEN POSTULATE THAT JESUS WAS WITHOUT SIN, which is a blatant contradiction in terms, huh? Barring your comical ruse of the difference between original sin and earthly sin, You cannot have both sin propositions, and still posit that Jesus was without sin OVERALL, key word, OVERALL, understand?  Hello, anybody home today?  Does your biblically inept mind need further explanation again on your continuous Christian-Foot-in-Mouth-Disease, huh?

HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A CHRISTIAN STATE THAT OUR GOD WAS POSSIBLY BORN INTO ORIGNAL SIN WHERE IT GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST JESUS' PURITY AND MODUS OPERANDI AS GOD OF THE UNIVERSE? HUH?  WELL, WITH THE BIBLLICALLY INEPT TRADESECRET, HE HAS DONE THIS UNGODLY AND SATANIC ACT IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP OF DEBATEART, BLASPHEME!

TRADESECRET, you are so guilty of the following Jesus inspired passage: “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”  (2 Timothy 4:3)


TRADESECRET, you were certainly sent here from Satan Himself, where you must be so proud!



.



BrotherDThomas
BrotherDThomas's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 2,140
3
3
7
BrotherDThomas's avatar
BrotherDThomas
3
3
7
-->
@Tradesecret
@Dr.Franklin


.
Tradesecret, the runaway FAKE Christian,


As explicitly shown within this thread, you still CANNOT address the Jesus inspired passages below regarding your namby-pamby child like scaredy cat position where you are too embarrassed to tell the membership of your division of Christianity, that in turn, must deserve embarrassment to begin with, otherwise you would tell us all about it.  Priceless admittance on your part!

TRADESECRET is obviously ashamed and HIDES from his choice of which church he attends, where he goes directly againt this Jesus inspired passage: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

TRADESECRET goes against another Jesus inspired passage where his church must not be honorble, herewith: "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Philippians 4:8)

TRADESECRET is mocking Jesus outright because he continues to HIDE from telling us in what division of Christianity he follows, to wit: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." (Galations 6:7)

TRADESECRET cannot defend his choice of a church affiliation by not being able to follow Jesus’ words herewith: ”We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

TRADESECRET obviously cannot hold firm to the trustworthyness of his church because he is to embarrassed to tell us what church that is: ”He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)


Tradesecret, listen up, for the comedy relief that would present itself, get the equally bible inept Dr. "C&P" Franklin to help you "TRY" and explain away your embarrassing predicament above that goes directly against Jesus' passages above! In doing so, this could be a written audition, whereas you two may end up on Saturday Night Live! LOL!


.

Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,555
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@BrotherDThomas
Where's the link for your school?
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,325
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@BrotherDThomas
 "I don't hold to the view that Mary was sinless.  I am not sure that Jesus was without original sin. He was sinless of course.”

First thing, where do you get the authority to usurp Jesus' inspired modus operandi within the scriptures as Yahweh God Incarnate?
Where did I usurp the Scripture or Jesus' authority? Firstly, I used the words "not sure" because I don't know. I said he was sinless because the bible clearly states this. Jesus was God Incarnate - but he was also FULLY man. As God he cannot sin - as man he must have been able to. Otherwise his claim to defeat sin is a façade. 

Then you Satanically claim that YOU ARE NOT SURE THAT JESUS AS GOD WASN'T BORN WITHOUT ORIGINAL SIN, AND THEN POSTULATE THAT JESUS WAS WITHOUT SIN, which is a blatant contradiction in terms.?
It is not a contradiction. You have not even bothered trying to understand sin v sins. Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit but his mother was human.  Mary did have original sin - and since she was Jesus' mother, he too must have inherited the estate of sin. You can produce scriptures to contradict me. He knew no sin. Yet he was born on this earth. It is clearly possible to be subject to original sin and not sin  because Jesus did not sin. As man, Jesus according to Philippians put his deity aside and attended this earth in the power of the Holy Spirit. His miracles don't attest that he is God per se- they attest that people should repent (Matt 11:20).  


Barring your comical ruse of the difference between original sin and earthly sin, You cannot have both sin propositions, and still posit that Jesus was without sin OVERALL, key word, OVERALL, understand?  
I read what you write - but can you prove this from the Scriptures? How can Jesus be born of a sinful woman and not inherit sin? I state that both propositions are clearly in the Bible. He was conceived by the Spirit of God because he was both fully God and fully Man. You seek to diminish his human nature. That is heresy according to church history and the bible. 


HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN A CHRISTIAN STATE THAT OUR GOD WAS POSSIBLY BORN INTO ORIGNAL SIN WHERE IT GOES DIRECTLY AGAINST JESUS' PURITY AND MODUS OPERANDI AS GOD OF THE UNIVERSE?
Obviously, you are not a scholar of church history. You must only read books that agree with you. Well good for you.