Animals and the Afterlife

Topic's posts
Posts in total: 113
--> @BrotherDThomas
Jesus was a "Rock Star" of his era, therefore, I assume that at times He needed a rest from the multitudes and went into town undercover, get it?

Hahahhahahhahahahhahah. I love it. So he didn't want anyone to know him for what and who he was eh? I find that very odd considering the place he said was not  going to, but did go to,  that nobody knew who he was anyway!!!!!!!. hahahhahahhahahahhhah

 He just wanted to enter the town as a normal person would, what's so bad about that? Huh?  In my preaching, I have had to do the same at times!

But not because you are a " rockstar"  bible basher but more likely because normal folk believe you to be unbalanced fire and fury contradictory lying bible basher, who doesn't know his Ark from his arse, and is best avoided should you ever  be recognised.

Oh, for the record, tell us what chapter and verse in the Bible you used to disparage our Jesus the Christ when He allegedly lied, and disguised Himself going into town, okay?
So you don't know your scripture as well as you lead others to believe you do. This shouldn't surprise anyone should it? Because  just as all devout christians do,  you will  alter, translate and interpret any  biblical verses that  are problematic to your faith. GET IT!!!?



 

--> @Stephen



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Stephen,

YOUR LACKING OF BIBLICAL KNOWLEDGE QUOTE:  "So you don't know your scripture as well as you lead others to believe you do. This shouldn't surprise anyone should it? Because  just as all devout christians do,  you will  alter, translate and interpret any  biblical verses that  are problematic to your faith. GET IT!!!?:

Uh, logic 101, which you lack in spades, states that anyone that makes an assertion, is to follow up with its foundation.  SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR ASS FROM A WILD GRAPE UPON THE TOPIC THAT YOU BROUGHT FORTH, YOU ARE EMBARRASSED ONCE AGAIN IN FRONT OF THE DEBATEART MEMBERSHIP!  LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are excused, now go and hide somewhere once again because of you removing one foot to insert the other!


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--> @BrotherDThomas
You haven't answered the questions ' brother d'. Why is that? 

Why did Jesus say he wasn't going into the city but then went into the city in secret? Why didn't he trust his hand picked trustey disciples enough to  impart to them the gospel truth? Why the secrecy? No one in the city knew who he was anyway. Matthew 21:10-17 New International Version (NIV)
10 When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?”

And  If he had just gone into the city without all the razzamataz of palm waving tambourine slapping and baby kissing to attract attention to himself in the first place, he would have gone completely unnoticed. The story as it has been taught to us is absolute bullshite and makes absolutely no sense at all. 
--> @Stephen



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Stephen,

Again, poor, poor, poor, poor Stephen is RUNNING AWAY from my question to him in my post #74 regarding his assertion in his post #73!!!
Why are we not surprised?  Heads up, YOU stated that Jesus was in disguise and scared that he would be recognized when he went into town with absolutely NO BIBLICAL VOUCHSAFING, but only speculation. STOP!

My follow up post $74 asked you where in the Bible did your information come from, STOP.  Then your irrational thinking tried to put the onus upon me of where this biblical information was derived from, STOP.   HELLO, AGAIN YOU ARE NOT AT HOME AT ANY TIME WHEN YOU ARE ON THIS FORUM!  It is YOU that has to bring forth where you obtained your assertion within the scriptures upon the topic at hand, get it bible ignorant fool?

For your convenience, I want you to take this logic 101 online class that you severely need to save yourself further embarrassment upon this forum, okay?  https://www.coursera.org/learn/logic-introduction. You can thank me later.

Please, for the sake of what credence you have left, DO NOT "try" and put the onus upon me again when it is YOU that is hanging out in embarrassment since you made the assertion FIRST without giving your biblical source, do you understand? Sure you do.

NEXT?


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--> @BrotherDThomas
You are doing it again. Just like all bible bashers do when they have painted themselves into a corner and find the question awkward and uncomfortable. You are attempting to answer a question with questions of your own. This is not discussion or debate. 

Now. Answer the above or leave the thread.


--> @Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR INITIAL QUOTE, POST #73: “Jesus told quite a few lies . He told his close disciples that he wasn't going into town but went in disguise. Why the disguise? Why was he so scared of being recognised? Why couldn't he trust his hand picked disciples with the truth? 

YOUR LAST IGNORANT QUOTE TO THE TOPIC AT HAND POST #80: "You are doing it again. Just like all bible bashers do when they have painted themselves into a corner and find the question awkward and uncomfortable. You are attempting to answer a question with questions of your own. This is not discussion or debate."


LOGIC 101, READY?  

1. YOU made the claim in your quote #73 above.  
2. You did not cite your biblical references to your claims.
3.  I asked you to cite your biblical references in my post #74
4.  In your post #76 you were embarrassed, then you tried to put the onus upon me to help you out and tell you where your references are! LOL
5.  In my post $77, I bible slapped you silly because you didn't know where your references were within the scriptures!
6.  In your post #78 you start grasping for straws to save further embarrassment, along with adding more sophomoric lame excuses.
7.  In my post #79 I tried to regress to a 2nd grade level for you to understand that it is up to you to provide the references, not me.
8.  Your post #80 reverts back again in trying to put the onus upon me, whereas it is LOGICALLY put upon you since you made the claim!!!!

2+2=4, oil and water don't mix, and you think everyone is as dumbfounded as you are in not understanding the logical fallacy of "THE SHIFTIING OF THE BURDEN OF PROOF! I suggest that you play this infantile game with your equally ignorant friends that lack the knowledge of logical fallacies, okay? Now, wipe the egg from your face once again.

The irony is that you obviously don't know where you got your biblical references from for your direct quotes about Jesus in your initial post #73!   Therefore, I suggest that to save further embarrassment amongst the membership, JUST LEAVE DEBATEART ALTOGETHER!

Subsequent to your departure, and to bring you up to speed in an ADULT FORUM next time, you severely need to take an online Logic 101 class so you won't find yourself in another embarrassing situation like this again, okay?  For your convenience, go to the link below of "beginning logic" and join, and after HOPEFULLY passing the course, tip toe back into DebateArt and give it another try.  You can thank me later.

You are excused once again at your expense. :(




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--> @Stephen, @BrotherDThomas
Oh, for the record, tell us what chapter and verse in the Bible you used to disparage our Jesus the Christ when He allegedly lied, and disguised Himself going into town, okay? When answering this question, it will prevent you from continuing to be a biblical fool again, get it?
The passage that Stephen is referring to is in John 7. The passage indicates Jesus says to the disciples - you go up to the feast. I am not going up to the feast. However, after his brothers had gone up, he went up also, privately. 

The lie is supposedly suggested in the fact that Jesus said he was not going up and then did. 

What are we to make of this? Did Jesus lie? Did Jesus change his mind? Did Jesus deliberately deceive his disciples? 

Interestingly, when people lie generally, it is to protect their own self- interests. Sometimes, it is to protect others. V. 1 clearly states Jesus' life was in danger. V. 3 his disciples are encouraging him to go to Judea. The threat seems genuine.  Jesus tells us his time was not yet come. v. 9 interestingly says he remained in Galilee.

Now with respect, there are some manuscripts which actually have "yet" - after I am not YET going up to the feast. If those manuscripts are correct, then there is an easy fix to this dilemma. Yet, many people will not find that a satisfactory answer. It is clear that Jesus intended to go to the feast. It is also clear that he was not going to put himself into danger by doing it publicly. It is also reasonable to assume he did not want his disciples discouraging him from going up to the feast and putting them in danger as well.  It is further clear that he was going to remain in control of his own mission and preaching. so is this some kind of cloak and dagger situation? Was he in disguise? Probably not. 

The question remains - is this a lie? I say no. It is no more a lie than Rahab telling the soldiers of Jericho that the spies from Israel had gone one way when in fact they were hiding with her. Was that a lie? Many would say "absolutely". Yet the question remains - what is a lie? Is a lie - all deception? For instance, telling  a joke, which is intentionally trying to deceive one to get the right punch line, is that a lie? Or does the intention - of deceiving the hearers to make them laugh, make it not a lie, but something else? If my wife asks me "how do I look darling"? Should I tell the truth always or is it ok to deceive her because my intention is not for me - but for her? 

In other words, is it a lie whenever we deceive someone else whatever the intention and whatever the interests happen to be? Or is there something else going on? 

Here Jesus whatever it is he is doing, is not to grandiose himself. It is not to make a million dollars. It is not to rob someone else of someone else's joy. It is not being at someone's expense.  His motives are pure. Hence I could not in good conscious deem it a lie. 

--> @BrotherDThomas

Tradesecret, the FAKE runaway Christian,

Whoops again!  Oh, oh, a pattern is forming with you, in that you forgot once again to give one of your comical apologetic spins, where this time it is to the end of my post #55!  AGAIN, You don't want to become what you are accusing me of, do you hypocrite?  YOUR QUOTE #47:  "You are the one who ran away in the other topic - because your arguments were shown to be false and shallow."  

To make it easy for you, I have reprinted it below, you can thank me later, okay?


Here, let me try to help you in jettisoning your Devil Speak with this simple proposition, what Jesus said ONCE, He did not mean for His creation to take in many different and contradicting ways. Understood, minion of Satan?

Your form of ungodly Christianity, where you interpret the scriptures in what you need them to say, is the embarrassing reason why there are over 33,000 DIFFERENT DIVISIONS of Christianity, where they all contradict each other, but at the same time, EACH ONE is allegedly correct in their subjective specific doctrines!  Where comically, your Satanic church of being a Hell bound Presbyterian is one of 33,000, but to you


Having read your response to my questions - I am puzzled as to the need of responding to anything in it. I did not run away from your posts. You are the one who refuses to answer my questions. I have nothing to hide. I just think there is no reason to tell you anything about me except what I choose to reveal. I am a Christian. That is all you need to know. I believe the Bible and I believe the Trinity is correct. I also believe Jesus is the second person of the Trinity. My denomination is irrelevant. My colour of my skin is irrelevant. My sex or gender is irrelevant. My age is irrelevant. If at times it is becomes necessary in the telling of some story or event of my life - or is necessary to provide some background to a view I will disclose all and any of these things. But until then, it is irrelevant. 

After all, how does knowing what denomination I am change your answers? How does it add to your responses? How does it strengthen or weaken my responses? It does not. It cannot so it is irrelevant. 

As for my interpretation of Scripture, almost all Christians come to the same conclusion. You on the other hand, make it up as you go along and no one has the same view as you. This makes it more likely that you are the one in error, not me. I at least am able to logically arrive at a conclusion that others do. You don't have any one who arrives at the same one. 

--> @Tradesecret



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Tradesecret, the runaway FAKE Christian,


Before you get easily bible slapped again, I was worried about your absence! I am so glad you returned because I am always worried subsequent to me having to biblically correct my weak FAKE Christian opponents. Whereas, they either have to heal from their biblical ignorance and embarrassment after engaging me, or they just run away to try and save face and regroup, then sneak back into DebateArt like nothing has happened to them!  Hmmmm, I wonder which scenario you represent? (Hint, both)

WHOOPS AGAIN, 3RD TIME! Yes, an absollute pattern has now formed in your behalf by you running away AGAIN from the last paragraph in my post #55!  Can you tell us what "running shoes" you wear in the name of Satan?  Inquiring minds want to know!

1.  In my post #55, you did not address the last paragraph in question in your subsequent postings numbered 57, 58, 59, and 60.  RUNAWAY #1

2.  Therefore, in my post #61 I called you out upon you running away from this paragraph in my post #55!  RUNAWAY #2

3.  Now, in your post #83, you at least finally “tried” to address the paragraph, BUT, “Houston, we have a problem!” Barring your non descript jibberish in yet running away from said paragraph again, you conveniently left off the last part of it that was the crux of the content! Hmmmmm, I wonder why? As if the acute eye didn’t notice your Satanic ruse! Tsk, tsk, tsk.  RUNAWAY #3

Here, to your humiliation again, I will post the entire paragraph with the addition that you just happened to leave off in bold type! 


“Your form of ungodly Christianity, where you interpret the scriptures in what you need them to say, is the embarrassing reason why there are over 33,000 DIFFERENT DIVISIONS of Christianity, where they all contradict each other, but at the same time, EACH ONE is allegedly correct in their subjective specific doctrines!  Where comically, your Satanic church of being a Hell bound Presbyterian is one of 33,000, but to you, your church is the correct word of Jesus the Christ over the other 32,999 divisions!  Laughable at best at your expense once again! LOL!!!”

You certainly didn’t think that your insidious and sophmoric response to the paragraph above being: “As for my interpretation of Scripture, almost all Christians come to the same conclusion” was going to hold water, did you? Surely you jest!, you ‘ol kidder you! LOL

Now, after reading the ENTIRE PARAGRAPH THIS TIME with the wording that you conveniently left off, and remember, what Jesus said ONCE, He didn’t mean for His Jewish creation to take in many different and contradicting ways, tell us, how do you know that your ungodly pagan Presbyterian Church, BEING ONE of 33,000 CHRISTIAN DIVISIONS OF THE FAITH, is the specific correct one in the eyes of Jesus? 

BEGIN:



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--> @Tradesecret



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Tradesecret, the runaway FAKE Christian,

A follow up to your humiliation regarding your post #83 is herewith:


YOUR INEPT AND COMICAL QUOTE: “As for my interpretation of Scripture, almost all Christians come to the same conclusion.”

Key word in your bible ignorant response, “interpretation” whereas you are NOT to interpret the bible to your perceived understanding: Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20). Do you want to call Paul a LIAR?! Please, save us any further Devil Speak by spin doctoring the verse above with your Satanic mind numbing apologetics where what it literally says, is not what it really means, okay?!

Furthermore,  and again, there are 33000 DIFFERENT divisions of Christianity, therefore, why aren’t you one of the 32999 that are left instead of the Presbyterian Church that you have Satanically chosen?


YOUR LYING SATANIC QUOTE: “You on the other hand, make it up as you go along and no one has the same view as you.”

Your biblical ignorace is without bounds, because I can’t “make it up” since I am a LITERALIST and accept what Jesus said, is in fact, what He said!  2+2=4. Whereas, as shown, you Satanically spin doctor away what Jesus’ inspired word LITERALLY states by using your PRESBIE crystal ball and decoder ring!  This is blatantly obvious since your church is only one division of over 32999 left of your faith! Hello, anybody home today?


YOUR INEPT QUOTE TO YOUR FAITH: “After all, how does knowing what denomination I am change your answers?”

We already know what division of Christianity that you swallowed, and that is the ungodly Presbyterian Church that we will definitely be talking about in the near future at your continued humiliation.  It is NOT the answers, but the questions that are to be asked, understand?

Oh well, we can explicitly see that your time off did not help you in any way whatsoever because you still operate with your Satanic apologetic and hermeneutic spin doctoring modus operandi!  Do you need more time off before you try in vain to engage me again? Yes? Maybe?  Seriously, I do not like to engage the already severly wounded like you in any discussions, but like Jesus’ inspired word states, i am to show you sympathy. (1 Peter 3:8)


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--> @Tradesecret



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The mindless Satanic jibberish continues where TRADESECRET sways in the wind, back and forth, with the issue of whether “works” are needed for salvation or not. Seriously, try not to laugh at Tradesecrets following “double speak” in the name of Satan, okay? He thanks you.


TRADESECRETS DIRECT SATANIC “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTES THAT STATE “WORKS ARE NOT NEEDED” FOR SALVATION, TO WIT:

“Works are not needed for salvation. God's grace is needed for our salvation.” (POST #58)

“We are saved by grace not by works lest anyone boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.” (POST #46) 

“We are saved by grace, through faith.” (POST #46)

“We don't need to do things to get to heaven” (POST #35, admitting “NO WORKS”)

“I said we don't need works to earn salvation” (POST #58)

“So, you do think that salvation is by works. OK. I hold to the view that God saves us.” (POST #35)

“Yet, our good works wont get us to heaven just like our bad works wont” (POST #46)


TRADESECRETS DIRECT SATANIC “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTES THAT NOW STATE “WORKS ARE NEEDED” FOR SALVATION, TO WIT:

“But we are saved unto good works” (POST #46)

“Christians are commanded to do good works” (POST #58)

“but that true faith is always accompanied by works” (POST #46)


Huh? Can Tradesecret spell "C-O-N-T-R-A-D-I-C-T-I-O-N?" LOL!  Tradesecrets  “double talk mish mash jabberwocky mumbo jumbo nonsense ” may be entertaining to him and his equally confused FAKE Christians, but it is NOT entertaining in the eyes of Jesus the Christ where he makes a mockery of His words! (Hebrews 4:13)

Where does Tradesecrets Christian humiliation end?  Yes, at the Pearly Gates where Jesus will meet him with the lever in hand to open the trap doors of Hell on his behalf, praise Jesus’ revenge upon the minions of Satan like Tradesecret!



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--> @Tradesecret



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Tradesecret, the runaway FAKE Christian,


As if the aforementioned posts showing TRADESECRET to be a minion of Satan weren’t enough for his outright disgrace in front of Jesus, lets add one more for good measure, shall we? Why of course!


TRADESECRETS DIRECT SATANIC “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTE THAT STATES ONE CANNOT PLEASE GOD, TO WIT:

“We cannot please God” (POST #58)


TRADESECRETS DIRECT SATANIC “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTE THAT STATES THAT YOU NOW CAN PLEASE GOD, TO WIT:


Yes, we please God because we are ALREADY saved. Not to get into heaven. (Post #58)

We please God by obeying his commandments - not to earn salvation to get into heaven. (POST #58)

“We please God by obeying his commandments - not to earn salvation to get into heaven”  (POST #46)


As embarrassingly shown above, barring Tradesecrets lack of understanding the English language and by not having the acumen to use correct syntactical sentence structuring, he doesn’t know his ass from a wild grape relative to Jesus’ “works” regarding salvation!   WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM AN UNGODLY HELL BOUND ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT LIKE TRADESECRET?!!!




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--> @Tradesecret
However, after his brothers had gone up, he went up also, privately. 

10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. KJV

Clearly he doesn't just saunter into town here, it clearly makes the point of saying  " not openly"  and inferes that he went up in secret and  in disguise. So you trying imply that this wasn't any type of deceit  and that it was jesus just wanting a little ' me time' by changing the wording from "secret" to private is simply you  attempting to play down the fact that there certainly was something deceitful going on. And something his hand picked and trusted disciples were not privy to.

This is yet another enigmatic, ambiguous half story offered to us by these scriptures that I continuously point and  that believers struggle to explain without altering the text of what is there to be seen and read.


--> @Stephen
10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. KJV

Clearly he doesn't just saunter into town here, it clearly makes the point of saying  " not openly"  and inferes that he went up in secret and  in disguise. So you trying imply that this wasn't any type of deceit  and that it was jesus just wanting a little ' me time' by changing the wording from "secret" to private is simply you  attempting to play down the fact that there certainly was something deceitful going on. And something his hand picked and trusted disciples were not privy to.

This is yet another enigmatic, ambiguous half story offered to us by these scriptures that I continuously point and  that believers struggle to explain without altering the text of what is there to be seen and read.
I am just reading the NIV. I am not changing words - quoting them infact.  

going up in secret does not mean he went up in disguise. Privately - and not publicly makes sense. Was he being deceitful? I cant see that in the text. In secret does not imply deceitful. 

But do not accuse me of changing the words - I quoted from the text I was using. If you don't like it - take it up with the publishers - not me. 
--> @BrotherDThomas
Before you get easily bible slapped again, I was worried about your absence! I am so glad you returned because I am always worried subsequent to me having to biblically correct my weak FAKE Christian opponents. Whereas, they either have to heal from their biblical ignorance and embarrassment after engaging me, or they just run away to try and save face and regroup, then sneak back into DebateArt like nothing has happened to them!  Hmmmm, I wonder which scenario you represent? (Hint, both)
If that was a slap, Let me turn the other cheek.  Yet, your comments are not a slap. They are hardly worth replying to. 


1.  In my post #55, you did not address the last paragraph in question in your subsequent postings numbered 57, 58, 59, and 60. 
No runaway. Why would I run? Duh! there was nothing to reply to. 

2.  Therefore, in my post #61 I called you out upon you running away from this paragraph in my post #55! 
Similarly! What in your post deserves or needs a reply?

“Your form of ungodly Christianity, where you interpret the scriptures in what you need them to say, is the embarrassing reason why there are over 33,000 DIFFERENT DIVISIONS of Christianity, where they all contradict each other, but at the same time, EACH ONE is allegedly correct in their subjective specific doctrines!  Where comically, your Satanic church of being a Hell bound Presbyterian is one of 33,000, but to you, your church is the correct word of Jesus the Christ over the other 32,999 divisions!  Laughable at best at your expense once again! LOL!!!”
Yes, I read that piece of drivel. There is no question. It is your statement - again it is an assertion. No proof. No evidence. No argument. Simply an unfounded assertion. No question. Nothing to respond to. It is your opinion. You can believe it if you like. It is no skin of my nose. 



--> @BrotherDThomas
“As for my interpretation of Scripture, almost all Christians come to the same conclusion.”

Key word in your bible ignorant response, “interpretation” whereas you are NOT to interpret the bible to your perceived understanding: Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20). Do you want to call Paul a LIAR?! Please, save us any further Devil Speak by spin doctoring the verse above with your Satanic mind numbing apologetics where what it literally says, is not what it really means, okay?!
LOL! I was making a my v yours interpretation. My interpretation is in accord with traditional methods of interpretation. YOURS is from your own mind. I notice you TOTALLY avoided any reference to your own interpretation. So take your foot out of your own mouth. 

Furthermore,  and again, there are 33000 DIFFERENT divisions of Christianity, therefore, why aren’t you one of the 32999 that are left instead of the Presbyterian Church that you have Satanically chosen?
Again I repeat, I have never said I was Presbyterian. You have simply allowed Harriet to lead you on in this belief. LOL! But believe whatever you will. 

“You on the other hand, make it up as you go along and no one has the same view as you.”

Your biblical ignorace is without bounds, because I can’t “make it up” since I am a LITERALIST and accept what Jesus said, is in fact, what He said!  2+2=4. Whereas, as shown, you Satanically spin doctor away what Jesus’ inspired word LITERALLY states by using your PRESBIE crystal ball and decoder ring!  This is blatantly obvious since your church is only one division of over 32999 left of your faith! Hello, anybody home today?
LOL!. At least I can spell.  You do make it up. You are not a literalist. You are an imbecile. 

“After all, how does knowing what denomination I am change your answers?”

We already know what division of Christianity that you swallowed, and that is the ungodly Presbyterian Church that we will definitely be talking about in the near future at your continued humiliation.  It is NOT the answers, but the questions that are to be asked, understand?
Do you? And who told you? It was not me.  LOL! Surely you are not going to rely upon the words of Harikrish. Has he not been banished for another month because of his delightful and well thought out lies? But of course, if you are going to trust the words of a known liar, why would that surprise me?

Oh well, we can explicitly see that your time off did not help you in any way whatsoever because you still operate with your Satanic apologetic and hermeneutic spin doctoring modus operandi!  Do you need more time off before you try in vain to engage me again? Yes? Maybe?  Seriously, I do not like to engage the already severly wounded like you in any discussions, but like Jesus’ inspired word states, i am to show you sympathy. (1 Peter 3:8)
I am still waiting for you to actually say something that NEEDS a response. 
--> @BrotherDThomas
TRADESECRETS … “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTES THAT STATE “WORKS ARE NOT NEEDED” FOR SALVATION, TO WIT:

“Works are not needed for salvation. God's grace is needed for our salvation.” (POST #58)

“We are saved by grace not by works lest anyone boast. Ephesians 2:8-9.” (POST #46) 

“We are saved by grace, through faith.” (POST #46)

“We don't need to do things to get to heaven” (POST #35, admitting “NO WORKS”)

“I said we don't need works to earn salvation” (POST #58)

“So, you do think that salvation is by works. OK. I hold to the view that God saves us.” (POST #35)

“Yet, our good works wont get us to heaven just like our bad works wont” (POST #46)

LET ME REPEAT. I absolutely agree I said these words - and will repeat them again and again and again. 


TRADESECRETS “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTES THAT NOW STATE “WORKS ARE NEEDED” FOR SALVATION, TO WIT:

“But we are saved unto good works” (POST #46)

“Christians are commanded to do good works” (POST #58)

“but that true faith is always accompanied by works” (POST #46)

AGAIN LET ME REPEAT. I absolutely said these words and will repeat them again and again. But let me add one thing. I never said they were needed for salvation. That is your lie and misrepresentation. 

I have said - as I did above - that we are saved by God's grace. I quoted Paul's words from Ephesians 2 that works don't save. I have also said which ninny here has repeated in the second list that true Christian will demonstrate good works. Grace saves us - UNTO good works. Grace first - good works second. Is this a contradiction? NO. 

Christians cannot save themselves. It is a free gift of God. It is done by Christ on the cross. Salvation belongs to the Lord. We are incapable of saving our selves. We were dead in sin. Dead people cannot do anything including good works. God saves us. We are saved by grace through faith. 

Yet, when people become Christians, as James rightly says, good works will accompany the Christian life. We cannot continue in a Christian life and not do good works.  but good works is not a CONDITION of obtaining salvation - - it is the fruit of salvation. Good works is the fruit of being saved. It is not the root that saves. Grace is the root that saves. Good works is the evidence that the tree / person is now alive and is capable of bearing fruit. 


--> @BrotherDThomas



TRADESECRETS .. “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTE THAT STATES ONE CANNOT PLEASE GOD, TO WIT:

“We cannot please God” (POST #58)

Again let me repeat  - TRADESECRET wrote this. 


TRADESECRETS … “DOUBLE SPEAK” QUOTE THAT STATES THAT YOU NOW CAN PLEASE GOD, TO WIT:


Yes, we please God because we are ALREADY saved. Not to get into heaven. (Post #58)

We please God by obeying his commandments - not to earn salvation to get into heaven. (POST #58)

“We please God by obeying his commandments - not to earn salvation to get into heaven”  (POST #46)

AGAIN LET ME REPEAT - TS wrote this. And is very proud of what he wrote. 


The problem for Brother DTs is that his DTs are kicking in. He just missed the obvious. 

No one can please God. This is a biblical given. Yet, once a person is born again with the Spirit of God, they are obligated to please God. The difference between the two situations are - one is without the Spirit of God - and the second has the Spirit of God. Unless, one is born again, it is impossible to please God. Yet once a person is born from above, born with the Spirit, then what is impossible becomes possible.  open your eyes, stop and think. 

--> @Tradesecret



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Pertaining to the runaway FAKE Christian Tradesecret ,

It is truly sad to watch the FAKE Christian Tradesecret unravel before our very eyes, and in front of Jesus as well (Hebrews 4:13), and succumb to his division of Christianity being a Presbyterian, because as embarrassingly shown, he runs away from his division of the faith instead of defending it as Jesus proposed ( Titus 1:9, 2 Corinthians 10:5, 1 Peter 3:15) 

Yes, we TRUE Christians have encountered many FAKE runaway Christians like TRADESECRET over the years in forums like this, where they were shown to be Burger King Christians, where they Satanically want their bible “their way” through Satanic apologetics and hermeneutics, instead of "Jesus’ way," through what Jesus said literally to the multitudes without any spin doctoring whatsoever!


TRADESECRET RUNAWAY POST #90:  Within this post it explicitly shows Tradesecret running away once again from biblical questions with child like sophmoric responses. What did we expect from a FAKE sexual deviant Christian?



TRADESECRET RUNAWAY POST #91:  Within this post, poor ol’ Tradesecret scrapes for what scraps are left for him in asserting that I interpret scripture wrong, where in fact, I read it LITERALLY where you cannot “interpret” it! HELLO?  Whereas Tradesecret uses Satanic apologetics and hermeneutics, decoder rings, and crystal balls to make the scriptures anything that he needs them to be at any given time. Therefore, he is guilty of this verse: “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” (1 Timothy 4:3)



TRADESECRET RUNAWAY POST #92:  As shown once again, Another example of Tradesecret making a mockery of the bible is his vain refutation to his Satanic “double speak” that I have shown at his expense.  As if his initial double speak wasn’t enough regarding “works,” READ HIS 4 PARAGRAPHS of mish mash jabberwocky to why speaking out of both sides of his mouth is somehow acceptable!  Priceless Devil Speak!  



RUNAWAY TRADESECRET POST #93:  Again, Tradesecret trashes the scriptures when he stated that no one can please god even though I had shown that the scriptures say that you are to please our serial killer Yahweh/Jesus God in my post #54!!!  Do you see why Tradesecret is an actual minon of Satan that was sent here to cause discord amongst the Christian community?! Sure you can.


What should scare the death of any TRUE Christian at DebateArt, is the fact that Tradesecret preaches his Satanic version of the Bible to others! YES, can you imagine the damage he is doing to the equally of simple minds of the faith by postulating his Devil Speak to others in the name of Satan???!  His double speak alone to others will take years to repair when they finally find out that Tradesecrets knowledge of the scriptures were from being a minion of Satan!  



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--> @Tradesecret



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TRADESECRET RUNAWAY POST # 95:  Oh, oh, wait a minute, there is no post #95 from him!  Why isn’t Tradesecret addressing what I had shown at the end of my post #87, in that he is Hell Bound upon his earthly demise because of being an ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and he wants to be called a Christian? HELL NO!


Tradesecrets sickening and utterly disgusting ungodly sexual deviant quotes in front of the membership and Jesus (Hebrews 4:13):

“Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess. She would be proud of us. I am not proud - but she would.”

“They are quite nice. We meet lots of other persons who share our sexual deviancies - it is like going home. All of our brothers are there - and dads and uncles.”




What does Jesus' inspired words say about Tradesecrets disgusting sexual deviancy and his outcome upon his demise?!

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

As an absolute, the sexually immoral person like Tradesecret will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur upon his demise! 

“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,” (1 Corinthians 6:9)

As an absolute, do not be deceived, the sexually immoral like Tradesecret will not inherit the kingdom of God!

Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” (1 Corinthians 6: 18-20)

As an absolute, Tradesecret DID NOT flee from sexual immortality as he continued to slap Jesus in the face because his body is a temple of Christ that was bought for a price!

Tradesecrets lack of Biblical intellect has to understand that our Yahweh/Jesus did not, I repeat, did not create Hell, and not plan on using it as Jesus supports by sending His creation to Hell in this one of many instances! Jesus stated: “My friends, don’t be afraid of people. They can kill you, but after that, there is nothing else they can do. God is the one you must fear. Not only can he take your life, but he can throw you into hell. God is certainly the one you should fear!” (Luke 12:4-5)



Since Jesus admits there is a Hell that He created (Colossians 1:16 ), and people like Tradesecret performing disgusting sexual immorality acts are going there upon their death, I then pity poor Tradesecret upon his demise.

Jesus stated: “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Jesus stated: “So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:49-50)

Jesus' inspired words stated: “The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42)



Now, if Tradesecret steps in the proverbial poo again and brings forth the “Forgiveness Doctrine” where everyone is saved nonetheless, then barring the fact that there is no incentive NOT to sin under this doctrine, then Tradesecret outright calls Jesus the Christ a LIAR in the above passages which equals blaspheme to the extreme towards Jesus!  Do you think that Tradesecret is this stupid to do this ungodly act in calling Jesus a LIAR? We shall see at his expense once again. The irony is the fact that Tradesecret should follow this passage to save any further humiliation here at DebateArt! "Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues."  (Proverbs 17:28)



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--> @Tradesecret



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TRADESECRET BLATANTLY LYING ONCE AGAIN IN HIS POST #91!!! : “Again I repeat, I have never said I was Presbyterian. You have simply allowed Harriet to lead you on in this belief.”

TRADESECRET DIRECT QUOTE AGAINST HIS QUOTE ABOVE: “Harikrish suggested I was Presbyterian, I never denied it. I merely mentioned that I don't see it as a relevant consideration.”

TRADESECRET DIRECT QUOTE #36:  “I am not ashamed of my church. Nor is the Presbyterian Church hell bound.”

As blatantly shown above, Tradesecret LIED when he stated that he was not a PRESBIE in his post #91!  Now, let's see some more of his insidious Devil Speak to try and weasel his way out of his direct statements above showing that he is a PRESBIE, when he said that he was not!  Lets prepare ourselves for some more lame excuses why his direct comments above are not to be taken LITERALLY!  This should be quite the comical event as usual with his last ditch efforts of the past!  Who has the popcorn concession for this event? Who as the beer concession for this event? WAITING!


In closing the godly humiliation of Tradesecret, he is shown to be biblically challenged, very predictable in being biblically inept, a blatant LIAR, a minion of Satan, a Burger King Christian where he wants his bible "his way" instead of "Jesus' way," a truly FAKE Christian, a Christian that talks out of both sides of his mouth in contradicting "double speak," a Christian who shows contradicting biblical passages, and who TRUE Christians should stay far away from as the Bible so states in the following passages, Titus 3:10, Romans 16:17, and 2 Timothy 3:5!





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--> @BrotherDThomas
It is truly sad to watch the FAKE Christian Tradesecret unravel before our very eyes, and in front of Jesus as well (Hebrews 4:13), and succumb to his division of Christianity being a Presbyterian, because as embarrassingly shown, he runs away from his division of the faith instead of defending it as Jesus proposed ( Titus 1:9, 2 Corinthians 10:5, 1 Peter 3:15) 
You don't realise it do you? Oh well, I suppose it may dawn on you one day, but probably not. I have not run away once, unlike you in https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2301/jesus-condemns-entire-cities-to-dreadful-deaths-in-hell. I have nothing to hide. I don't need to fall into line just because you abuse me. I have not said I am a Presbyterian, no matter what spin you put on it. Whatever I am is actually none of your business and I aim to keep it that way.  I do not shy away from my faith. You on the other do not demonstrate any good fruits which leads to only one conclusion Matthew 7:15-21; Matthew 12: 37. 

Yes, we TRUE Christians have encountered many FAKE runaway Christians like TRADESECRET over the years in forums like this, where they were shown to be Burger King Christians, where they Satanically want their bible “their way” through Satanic apologetics and hermeneutics, instead of "Jesus’ way," through what Jesus said literally to the multitudes without any spin doctoring whatsoever!
I do not use spin in relation to the Bible. That I don't agree with you is not evidence of the same. Jesus was not a literalist. Jesus said "I am the door". He said I am the way and the truth. He said I am the bread of life. He said I am the everlasting water. He said I am the good shepherd. He said I am the resurrection. None of those things are to be taken literally, but all metaphorically. 

POST #90:  Within this post it explicitly shows Tradesecret running away once again from biblical questions with child like sophmoric responses.
Only to someone who cannot read English. What is says is that you wrote nothing that needed a response to. 

#91:  Within this post, poor ol’ Tradesecret scrapes for what scraps are left for him in asserting that I interpret scripture wrong, where in fact, I read it LITERALLY where you cannot “interpret” it! HELLO?  Whereas Tradesecret uses Satanic apologetics and hermeneutics, decoder rings, and crystal balls to make the scriptures anything that he needs them to be at any given time. Therefore, he is guilty of this verse: “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” (1 Timothy 4:3)
Now here we really do see garbage out of your mouth.  The fact is - you don't even interpret it literally. You interpret it according to your own distorted mindset. 


#92:  As shown once again, Another example of Tradesecret making a mockery of the bible is his vain refutation to his Satanic “double speak” that I have shown at his expense.  As if his initial double speak wasn’t enough regarding “works,” READ HIS 4 PARAGRAPHS of mish mash jabberwocky to why speaking out of both sides of his mouth is somehow acceptable!  
LOL! 


#93:  Again, Tradesecret trashes the scriptures when he stated that no one can please god even though I had shown that the scriptures say that you are to please our serial killer Yahweh/Jesus God in my post #54!!! 
You have not actually shown anything except you are unable to argue or form an argument. 



--> @BrotherDThomas
# 95:  Oh, oh, wait a minute, there is no post #95 from him!  Why isn’t Tradesecret addressing what I had shown at the end of my post #87, in that he is Hell Bound upon his earthly demise because of being an ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and he wants to be called a Christian? HELL NO!
I don't have to address lies and fabrications. I don't have to respond to statements you make that have no basis. I don't have to respond to your rhetoric. I deny I made any comments in relation to being a sexual deviant. Harriet had been proven and banned for making false statements on numerous occasions. Hence I don't feel a need to reply any more than this. And I wont. 














--> @Tradesecret



Tradesecret,

YOUR QUOTE: "I deny I made any comments in relation to being a sexual deviant."


YOUR QUOTES THAT SAY DIFFERENT YOU DID SAY YOU WERE A SEXUAL DEVIANT:


“Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess. She would be proud of us. I am not proud - but she would.”

“They are quite nice. We meet lots of other persons who share our sexual deviancies - it is like going home. All of our brothers are there - and dads and uncles.”



Tradesecret, you are excused once again for being an outright LIAR!



.





--> @Tradesecret



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Tradesecret, the runaway FAKE Christian,

Your refutations are waning, they are getting weaker with every subsequent post of yours, deep down you know that you are only bringing a Boy Scout pocket knife to my Abrams M-1 fully loaded tank in our discussions!

Now, what part of this statement of mine relative to your true MO here on DebateArt didn't you understand?  In closing the godly humiliation of Tradesecret, he is shown to be biblically challenged, very predictable in being biblically inept, a blatant LIAR, a minion of Satan, a Burger King Christian where he wants his bible "his way" instead of "Jesus' way," a truly FAKE Christian, a Christian that talks out of both sides of his mouth in contradicting "double speak," a Christian who shows contradicting biblical passages, and who TRUE Christians should stay far away from as the Bible so states in the following passages, Titus 3:10, Romans 16:17, and 2 Timothy 3:5!

You're a joke in calling yourself an assumed Christian, and I will continue to show you to be one of the most FAKE hypocritical Christians upon this forum, understood?


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