The Solution To Poverty?

Author: ethang5

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@Greyparrot
Morality is survival.
Your still a confused human and the last statement clearly shows that you really do not grasp or care, that, one of the key differrences between the animal that survives and,

1} the human animal that survives and has morals and most access to complex metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts.

You must be a young teenager.
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@Greyparrot
If poverty is the result of overpopulation, then why do cities have a high GDP per capita while being more overpopulated then the rural areas?
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@Alec
Overpopulated city areas have more poor. Overpopulated rural areas have more poor. Scarcity of resources is a real thing. People can't just crap raw materials out of their asses.
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@Greyparrot
Raw materials aren't the only source of wealth.  The parts of electronics are cheap but the finished product is worth more.  Wealth is generated.  It's partly why most countries have a higher GDP now then they did 10 years ago. 
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@Alec
All wealth is based off of scarce raw resources, which includes landspace. When you run out, you run out.

If wealth was created from more population. It would be called underpopulation. Not overpopulation.
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@Greyparrot
Wealth of energy
..... coal to cook a meal.....

Wealth of knowledge
....parabolic shaped surface using sunlight to cook a meal.......

We agree win/win that overpopulation is a problem, based on the operating systems we have in place.

On the other hand, Fuller in the 70's states that humanity the potential for all humans to be likened to billionaire if we used our minds more effectively  for doing-more-with-less, instead of our current butt-forward, class 2, evolutionary process.

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@TheRealNihilist
In your terms I thought my first comments were a reductio ad absurdem.  You could not ever get rid of poverty in a realistic way.  It will always be relative.  It's like trying to make everyone exactly the same.  If the end of poverty were the goal the most basic attempt may be to kill the poor people or the rich.  Only then the differences between who is left would be emphasized and you would end up with some income inequality.  Everyone just decides what is reasonable to them because it is not going away unless you are an advocate of extinction.

I can't really gauge very well if it isn't blatant and I am pretty annoyed as is. 

I thought that suggesting outright that we kill all poor people to amend poverty was blatantly ridiculous.
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@Titanium
In your terms I thought my first comments were a reductio ad absurdem.  You could not ever get rid of poverty in a realistic way.
I have heard people express similar views and they were being serious so I take the position people are being serious rather than joking.
It will always be relative.
Moral relativism is self-defeating so instead of using relative use it depends on X.
Everyone just decides what is reasonable to them because it is not going away unless you are an advocate of extinction.
Yeah there will always be people better off but that doesn't mean we are just going to allow the rich to get rich and the poor to either stay poor but comparing to the rich they are getting poorer. If the margins increase enough I think the majority will be advocate for violence. Populism is a way to address their concerns if that person isn't a fake populist like what Trump is. It is kind of a good thing that people who did vote for Trump have some kind of unconditional love for him because it does stop a revolution because they are too st*pid to realise Trump is not helping them but it is awful when they are out of the spell and realise their problems are getting worse which can mean they are going to be even closer to revolution. 
I thought that suggesting outright that we kill all poor people to amend poverty was blatantly ridiculous. 
I was annoyed at something else that impacted this but people do actually think they like. If you don't think so Ben pretty much says poor people choose to be poor. That is really similar to your statement but I am sure he is being serious so I much take people seriously then be shocked by such st*pid statements. 
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@Greyparrot
All wealth is based off of scarce raw resources
If this were true, then someone's labor would be worthless.  But labor is not worthless.

which includes landspace
Due to labor, land space can actually increase.  An example would be building apartment buildings.  You get more land from building upwards.

If wealth was created from more population. It would be called underpopulation. Not overpopulation.
Overpopulation is present in some parts of the world like India and China.  However, some would say under population is present in the west, which is partly why there is so much immigration to the west.  If wealth isn't created from population, then why does the GDP per capita of countries generally go up as the population goes up?
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If this were true, then someone's labor would be worthless.  But labor is not worthless.

Go sell some pies crafted with your own feces then and tell me how your labor is worth something.

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@Greyparrot
Some labor is worth something, like every job.  Would you rather have the parts for an Iphone or an actual Iphone?  
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@Alec
Lol labor isn't worth a damn thing until someone else values it.
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@Greyparrot
Basically.  More people means more people to provide/produce valuable services and goods.
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@Alec
Sure. I guess we can also grow humans like cattle and sell the human flesh as burgers. More population means more burgers.

Too bad India and China with the low average wealth due to overpopulation and scarcity of resources haven't learned how to turn overpopulation into a commodity.
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@Greyparrot
I don't think that turning humans into burgers is a good idea because it infringes on the rights of those being slaughtered.  Eventually, we won't have to slaughter farm animals because of lab grown meat.  That project is in progress.
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@TheRealNihilist
In your terms I thought my first comments were a reductio ad absurdem.  You could not ever get rid of poverty in a realistic way.
I have heard people express similar views and they were being serious so I take the position people are being serious rather than joking.
It will always be relative.
Moral relativism is self-defeating so instead of using relative use it depends on X.
What I meant by relative is that some are always worse off than others.  We may well agree that the poorest in the U.S. are much better off than the bulk of populations in others.  I was not advocating moral relativism but only that a millionaire is poor with respect to Jeff Bezos and a homeless man is able to eat and find shelter in the U.S. which is often not possible in other countries.

Everyone just decides what is reasonable to them because it is not going away unless you are an advocate of extinction.
Yeah there will always be people better off but that doesn't mean we are just going to allow the rich to get rich and the poor to either stay poor but comparing to the rich they are getting poorer. If the margins increase enough I think the majority will be advocate for violence. Populism is a way to address their concerns if that person isn't a fake populist like what Trump is. It is kind of a good thing that people who did vote for Trump have some kind of unconditional love for him because it does stop a revolution because they are too st*pid to realise Trump is not helping them but it is awful when they are out of the spell and realise their problems are getting worse which can mean they are going to be even closer to revolution. 
We are at least on the same page here in that I am opposed to Trump as an advocate for groups of disenfranchised workers whose industries have been destroyed by the market.  Also, I am opposed to extreme levels of income inequality when they use wealth to oppose the market and force all other businesses out.

I was annoyed at something else that impacted this but people do actually think they like. If you don't think so Ben pretty much says poor people choose to be poor. That is really similar to your statement but I am sure he is being serious so I much take people seriously then be shocked by such st*pid statements. 

Ben who, Shapiro?  I think his positions are more nuanced but he does not seem to see that modern 'capitalism' is anti-market/competition and has served to create vast levels of income inequality by force not merit.
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To clarify, trump screws over the workers he pretends to help.  I agree there.
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@NoodIe
Are you Titanium or do you just wanted to respond to my comments?
What I meant by relative is that some are always worse off than others.  We may well agree that the poorest in the U.S. are much better off than the bulk of populations in others.  I was not advocating moral relativism but only that a millionaire is poor with respect to Jeff Bezos and a homeless man is able to eat and find shelter in the U.S. which is often not possible in other countries.
Depending is a better word. That is what I am only saying.
We are at least on the same page here in that I am opposed to Trump as an advocate for groups of disenfranchised workers whose industries have been destroyed by the market. Also, I am opposed to extreme levels of income inequality when they use wealth to oppose the market and force all other businesses out.
Wage stagnation is most important for me. If a person I am sure spends most of his/her time in a job and does not have a way to increase their salary. There isn't a motive to work harder or even care about your job enough so that you can get a raise. I advise unions to be prevalent. Universal healthcare is also good but unions specifically addresses wages.
Ben who, Shapiro?  I think his positions are more nuanced but he does not seem to see that modern 'capitalism' is anti-market/competition and has served to create vast levels of income inequality by force not merit.
Watch this and tell me how he is not a d*mb d*mb. 

NoodIe
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@TheRealNihilist
Are you Titanium or do you just wanted to respond to my comments?
Titanium was a bit of reflection, like a flat circle.  But yes, Titanium here.
What I meant by relative is that some are always worse off than others.  We may well agree that the poorest in the U.S. are much better off than the bulk of populations in others.  I was not advocating moral relativism but only that a millionaire is poor with respect to Jeff Bezos and a homeless man is able to eat and find shelter in the U.S. which is often not possible in other countries.
Depending is a better word. That is what I am only saying.
We are at least on the same page here in that I am opposed to Trump as an advocate for groups of disenfranchised workers whose industries have been destroyed by the market. Also, I am opposed to extreme levels of income inequality when they use wealth to oppose the market and force all other businesses out.
Wage stagnation is most important for me. If a person I am sure spends most of his/her time in a job and does not have a way to increase their salary. There isn't a motive to work harder or even care about your job enough so that you can get a raise. I advise unions to be prevalent. Universal healthcare is also good but unions specifically addresses wages.
Sure, income inequality is a thing when billionaires stumble on wealth by chance and then exercise this power to subjugate others with that power.  I am against that and do my best to resist this.

Ben who, Shapiro?  I think his positions are more nuanced but he does not seem to see that modern 'capitalism' is anti-market/competition and has served to create vast levels of income inequality by force not merit.
Watch this and tell me how he is not a d*mb d*mb. 


He is not dumb as fk.  He's been brainwashed.  So much of what he says is extremely rational.  As an ex fundamentalist I understand this.  It's a confusion with the facts of reality.  I like to listen to him with respect to his view of capitalism and to undertsand his intense influence on the intellectual right.  

He's poisonous because he misses some basic facts.  I't's a fucking tragedy.
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@NoodIe
Titanium was a bit of reflection, like a flat circle.  But yes, Titanium here.
Isn't that illegal? You should say your forgot your password to your account.
Sure, income inequality is a thing when billionaires stumble on wealth by chance and then exercise this power to subjugate others with that power.  I am against that and do my best to resist this.
The rich get wealthy because of other people. So I think the more the rich are richer the better they are exploiting people and machines. 
He is not dumb as fk.  He's been brainwashed.  So much of what he says is extremely rational.  As an ex fundamentalist I understand this.  It's a confusion with the facts of reality.  I like to listen to him with respect to his view of capitalism and to undertsand his intense influence on the intellectual right.  

He's poisonous because he misses some basic facts.  I't's a fucking tragedy.
I know right. 
NoodIe
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--> @NoodIe
Titanium was a bit of reflection, like a flat circle.  But yes, Titanium here.
Isn't that illegal? You should say your forgot your password to your account.
Someone else found my password would be more accurate.  
Sure, income inequality is a thing when billionaires stumble on wealth by chance and then exercise this power to subjugate others with that power.  I am against that and do my best to resist this.
The rich get wealthy because of other people. So I think the more the rich are richer the better they are exploiting people and machines.
Sure, the concern of those that exercise their empathy is that this does not happen too fast so that intense pain does not afflict too many.

He is not dumb as fk.  He's been brainwashed.  So much of what he says is extremely rational.  As an ex fundamentalist I understand this.  It's a confusion with the facts of reality.  I like to listen to him with respect to his view of capitalism and to undertsand his intense influence on the intellectual right.  

He's poisonous because he misses some basic facts.  I't's a fucking tragedy.
I know right. 
;|
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@NoodIe
Someone else found my password would be more accurate.  
Okay.
Sure, the concern of those that exercise their empathy is that this does not happen too fast so that intense pain does not afflict too many.
Yes.
;|
Was that a joke? 
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Greyparrot
I don't feel like reading all 11 pages, but thought the title was a bit odd.
Is poverty a bad thing?  Considering anyone rarely starves to death in the U.S. and many of the poor are obese.  Trying being poor in some of these other countries.
Hell many people in these other countries would LOVE to be one of the poor in the U.S.
Poverty has been a great motivator to many successful people who have contributed a lot to the U.S.
So what really is the downside of being poor and what does being poor mean exactly?
Not everyone can have the best, that only happens on tv like Star Trek

saw something funny, in the old days only the rich had cars and everyone else had horses, now everyone has a car and only the rich can afford horses.

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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Inequality is a feature of humanity, not a bug.
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@Greyparrot
Now there's no more oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw

          Rush  The Trees

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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Oh how the progressives want everything placed in neat little baskets to cull those they deem "unequal"
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@Greyparrot
Oh how the progressives want everything placed in neat little baskets to cull those they deem "unequal"
Hydrogen bombs{ 457 magum } = peacekeeper aka the great equalizer.

So on one hand Trumpanzees all for giving the small woman { or man } or country etc a 457 mangum or larger, weapon so as they can be considered equal to the big man or woman who does not have a gun.

OMG!  These Trumpanzees fully support this concept as being equal, yet think this is equality does carry over to standard of living equality.

Hypocrcrits at best and at worst....?

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@mustardness
Equality is inhuman. Beep boop.
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@Greyparrot
Equality is inhuman. Beep boop.
That humans come in more than one size is very human. Are you on precription medications, or off the ones yous supposed to be on?

To equalize is ok for some but not others.  Hypocritical at best and at worst....?.......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hydrogen bombs{ 457 magum } = peacekeeper aka the great equalizer.

So on one hand Trumpanzees all for giving the small woman { or man } or small country etc a 457 mangum or larger weapon, so as they can be considered equal to the big man or woman who does not have a gun.

We have seen this scenario playing out for thousand of years.

OMG!  These Trumpanzees fully support this concept as being equal, yet think this is equality does carry over to standard of living equality.



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Killing all people in poverty, simple!