The Solution To Poverty?

Author: ethang5

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sadolite
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@mustardness
Yes capitalism is the only system by which the individual through his own efforts and own risk can create wealth. No other system allows that. They all without exception pick and choose who will win and who will lose, pretty much like you would do. "You make to much money I have to take it and give it to this person who did nothing to earn it like you did."  I on the other hand would handle all poverty through the private sector. I would give huge tax incentives to donate to private charities. Private charities would be more mindful of those who deserve help and those who don't. Your system doesn't differentiate a real person in need and a useless pile of lazy ass shit that will milk your system for every dime they can get.
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@sadolite
Yes capitalism is the only system by which the individual through his own efforts and own risk can create wealth.
Real wealth { 2 }=

1} energy resources to sustain individual and/or whole set { humanity and ecological systems },

2} wealth as metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts of individual and whole set of humanity

No other system allows that.
Again, your lack of spiritual/moral considerations for both individual and whole set of

They all without exception pick and choose who will win and who will lose, pretty much like you would do.
Huh?  Again more false projections by you. Your stuck in your armpit of individualism only counts.  See narccisstic Super-Trumpanzee mindset https://www.debate.org/Greyparrot/


"You make to much money I have to take it and give it to this person who did nothing to earn it like you did." 
Money is not real wealth.  

I on the other hand would handle all poverty through the private sector.
"private sector" = pure capatilism ergo no government and no spiritual/moral concerns.

I would give huge tax incentives to donate to private charities.
I see money and taxes being in the way of real wealth and human resources increase or deplete those resources.

Charity = addresses low end of fat class ergo lower standard of living aka poor.

Again we need to be moving away from dumb-bell >< society and toward fewest poor and rich. Again, this is beyond capatilism. This is about spiritual/moral concerns for humanities survival with least amount of sufferring being priority.

You capatlist approach is capatilism first all else will hopfefully fall into place as result of capatilism.

Your stuck in your armpit of capatilism only.  That has led to dumb-bell >< society and that is only getting worse. That approach will have bad endings

You have no place for spiritual/moral concerns of humanity and ecological enviroment that sustains all, and none for government.


Private charities would be more mindful of those who deserve help and those who don't.
Your approach >< dumb-bells and those in higher standards are allowed to give to lower standard of living if they choose to. 

Your system doesn't differentiate a real person in need and a useless pile of lazy ass shit that will milk your system for every dime they can get.
I dont have a system. I have an approach that begins with spiritual morals.

You have an approach that begins with all for self and all others can stay out of your way to whatever you so choose to do.

You lack both spiritual/moral considerations and a government to regulate the distribution of all resources that tend toward a octahedral <> resultant for humanity standards of living.

<> vs ><

So how to do we get to here <> is the question you and humanity needs to be asking itself.

The question your asking yourself is how to get more for yourself and all else is irrelevant. Narrow/short sighted/minded.

<> inclusive of whole set

>< exclusive of any outside of self


sadolite
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@mustardness
Like I said you would pick who wins and who loses. You would decide what people make and what they spend their money on. You would micro manage every aspect of every human being. I want no part of your collectivism, I would rather starve and suffer during hard times. I would rather starve and suffer for my bad life decisions.  Which by they I did and still do. I'm just not dumb and naive anymore so my suffering is all but a thing of the past. 


"If you can't explain something simply and succinctly you most likely don't know what youre talking about" 

Einstein

Your walls of line by line eye bleed are proof of that. 

Just one question and we will bring this discussion to an end as we agree to disagree with everything with everything each of us say say.


Why did Venezuela fail so miserably and so quickly? It was a Democratically elected govt and the people by a huge majority chose to have a collectivist system. They had all the greatest minds in the world from Moscow to Hollywood and from Sweden to Mexico advising and watching to make sure it would work. Why didn't it? It wasn't because of a lack of resources. It is rich in oil and a vast plethora of other natural resources. It was once a very rich country with little poverty. What happened? They still have all that. Why doesn't it work?  
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@sadolite
Like I said you would pick who wins and who loses.
Huh? Your confused. I,m for win/win. Your stuck in your ego based armpit that begins with all for self and all others can stay out of your way to whatever you so choose to do.

You would decide what people make and what they spend their money on.
Your still confused dude and trying to put me in position of King or authouatarian dictator when I have never suggested any such nonsense.  Please play fair.

You would micro manage every aspect of every human being.
Ex people who stick their noses *v* into a pregnant womans bodily business without her consent. My guess is you have more friends a party affiliation with those type of sick-n-the-head people than I do.

I want no part of your collectivism, I would rather starve and suffer during hard times.
Based on your own commments any approach other than your given capatilistic system, will lead to "starve and suffer hard times", so now your contradicting yourself.  Do you undestand how your being contradictory Sadolite? No. Yeah, I didnt think so.

I would rather die knowing my attempts in life where for the greatest whole of humanity, and not just my own armpit of existence.

I would rather starve and suffer for my bad life decisions.  Which by they I did and still do. I'm just not dumb and naive anymore so my suffering is all but a thing of the past. 
Same comments are contradictory to what system is going to lead "starve and suffer".

Your walls of line by line eye bleed are proof of that. 
Huh? What nonsense are you going on about here above?

Why did Venezuela fail so miserably and so quickly? ....... Why doesn't it work?  
I dunno.  You can and have probably already told me why.

You still stuck in your armpit of historical. multiple nation-states, that are inherently pitted against each other.

When you decide your ready evolve into a global community that,  has systems of governance are  based on spiritual-morals, then perhaps, you will be able to leave your armpit of ego-based capatilism for self/one, and enter a wholistic system of one-for-all and all-for-one mentality.

( * )( * ) = greater wholistic considerations

*V* = self only consideration


mustardness
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@ethang5
“All for one and one for all, united we stand divided we fall.”

― Alexandre Dumas, The Three Musketeers

How do we unite 195 differrent nations and their Spaceship Earth Captains?

First there has to exist  desire or education as to why we should unite as a global community called Earth Is Our Home or Earthian First or  Humanity First or whatever catchy phrase that is not already taken.

All-of-Earth and Earth-for-all.



22 days later

disgusted
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Prune the top 1% of the tree and feed the roots.
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@sadolite
I would rather starve and suffer during hard times. I would rather starve and suffer for my bad life decisions
Have you ever and are you making those decisions for your children and grandchildren? Nobody would rather starve except to give their offspring food in their place, but it seems your allegiance to capitalism outweighs your care for your offspring. That is the perfect example of capitalism.

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It won't work. 

Why cause most people will spend it. So therefore they will become poor again.

Secondly, what will happen to the minimum wage work force?  If they have this much money, they won't work... 

Nice theory, but I can't see it working positivity for the work force.  Unless, the U.S. replace these workers with Refugees and Migrants from other countries. But then they will suffer the same vicious cycle of being poor still.


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@disgusted
My children must suffer for my poor life decisions. My children are my responsibility and no one else's. You expect me to pay for your children because you make poor life choices? Only the mind of a liberal would think that. They are your damn kids You take care of them. If I wanted to take care of your kids I would take them away from you. If your kids suffer because you make poor life choices they should know it. That way they won't grow up to be like you. Kids should understand they have shity parents and learn from it. That way when they come of age they can get the hell out of your house and not have to rely on you and your shity life choices.
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@sadolite
Bloody kids choosing to be born in Yemen, what were they thinking? You have no idea what starvation is and only a privileged wingnut would make such a spurious claim.
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@disgusted
That's Yemen's problem. I can't care about all the suffering in the world and wont try.  I will care about the suffering that I can do something about and that is it. I can only care about the suffering 5 people at a time. I do not have the resources or the time to care about the suffering of any more people than that. To try to care about the suffering of anymore would make me suffer. You can't take care of anyone if you can't take care of yourself. How many people do you personally provide financial assistance to out of your after tax income? I will not give Govt one more dime of my money than I can legally not give govt. They waste all of it.

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@sadolite
You are a liar. You would no more rather starve than have your nuts ripped off and as a christian your love and care for your fellow humans is admirable. NOT
sadolite
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@disgusted
Um I lived in my car for three weeks and survived on bread and bologna the whole time. I never once considered asking the taxpayers to bail my ass out. I know what it is to be poor and go without.  That is why I have zero empathy for people living on welfare with their 3 bedroom house cell phones 60" wide screen TV and cadillac escalade sitting in their driveway. Nobody in this country knows what real poverty is. I wasn't even poor when I was living in my car eating bologna sandwiches. Human suffering is 99.9% self inflicted and I am no exception. I have learned to live without and expect nothing. That is why I am not poor anymore. In the end, no one cares about your lot in life except you. Look to no one for anything unless it is reciprocal by agreement by both parties. Never have pity for anyone who has destroyed their own life by obvious bad life choices, not ever. Let them hit rock bottom and suffer. Helping them only enables them to continue a destructive lifestyle.
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@sadolite
Jesus taught "I'm alright Jack, fuck you"
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@sadolite
I will care about the suffering that I can do something about and that is it.
I.e. I'm in this box, and cannot get out of it, see out of it or hear anything from the outside of this box.

See no evil, hear no evil, but will speak plenty of evil about those who they have no knowledge of their circumstances yet believe they all lack if even the most basic humans qualities  for their existence much less that they should expect consideration or empathy from others humans to aid or consider the validity of  their existence on Earth.

It has been shown that collectively human groups  can shut off the empathy centers, in the brain,  to others of race{ color }, religion, financial status gender etc.





sadolite
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@mustardness
Your attempt to paint me as a closed minded dimwit only shows your inability to understand that all the world's suffering cannot and will never end. You can only help who you can help. The fact that I don't act like a bleeding heart pussy doesn't change anything. I will ask you again, how many people do you help financially with your own after tax income? You won't answer because it is 0. I have raised 5 children in my life and paid all of their bills. I have fixed countless cars and houses over my life time for people who could not afford to have it done professionally for free or one tenth of the cost. I have donated hundreds of man hours doing such things. Tell us about how you help people other than giving lip service about how the govt should do everything at my expense the taxpayer. I already pay the govt 40% of everything I earn between federal state and local taxes and to this day have seen nothing to show for it. People are as poor as they ever were and there are no fewer but more.
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@sadolite
The fact that I don't act like a bleeding heart pussy doesn't change anything. I will ask you again, how many people do you help financially with your own after tax income? You won't answer because it is 0.
1} I addressed this question previously and do again here. I will not go into the specifics as I do not like to give out to much private information about myself,
2} time is money/finance and again, I will not go into that,

3} in considering how much someone gives, has to be relative too perecentage of how much they make ergo obviously the more a person makes the more they have the option to give, but the percentages may be the same for both kinds of money making individual.

The world is not all black and white and I think you tend to not to be a more considerate type of persons I dunno, just as you really do not know me or my actions over my lifetime.

I have raised 5 children in my life and paid all of their bills.
I have had no biological children.

I have fixed countless cars and houses over my life time for people who could not afford to have it done professionally for free or one tenth of the cost.
Again, I'm not going into the specifics of my actions and I feel I could have done more in some ways.  Regret I never got out of a blame mentality as that kept me from passing on my knowledge based experiences to those younger than me.

I have donated hundreds of man hours doing such things. Tell us about how you help people other than giving lip service about how the govt should do everything at my expense the taxpayer.
I'm satisfied, for the most part, with my efforts {  lots } to do for others.  You will never know what I have done because of reasons Ive given you previously.

I already pay the govt 40% of everything I earn between federal state and local taxes and to this day have seen nothing to show for it. People are as poor as they ever were and there are no fewer but more.
They pay most in some Scandanivian countries?  They may have paid, for the greater good, with their lives  in some cases.  Some consider sacrificing self for the others a great thing. A great act. It takes more courage to die for death than to kill for death.

The greatest evil may  be in denying truth when we know that, or believe it is the truth.

All-for-one and one-for-all is the best way forward for humanity for most years with least sufferreing.

Mind-forward instead of butt-forward bumping into future of errors and bruising our rear end.

sadolite
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@mustardness
So basically you believe you are morally superior to me because you pretend to care more but in reality I have helped far more people than you ever will
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@sadolite
So basically you believe you are morally superior to me because you pretend to care more but in reality I have helped far more people than you ever will
I never made any such statements as you repeated and falsely project on to me. 

I dunno how many Ive helped along the way of my life, and I certainly believe that, you have even less idea of how many Ive helped along the way of my life. 

Are you on prescription medications for mental issues?

Is this some kinda of male pissing contest your going on about?

Or some other lower chakra competition to pump your ego?

Ego is not the solution to poverty and is in fact the greatest danger to humanity. You need look no further so called leaders in the USA white house.

They are sick-in-the-head and should have been locked away long ago. Do you understand?  No? I didnt think so.






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@mustardness
You are the one with the ego. This conversation is going in circles. You have made not one relevant point about suffering. I have made many. Suffering is part of life. it will never end. You can confiscate all the world's wealth and give it to who you think is poor and it will all be right back in the same hands of the people you took it from in ten years. You don't care about suffering and the poor, you give useless lip service and try and place blame on people like me that call out your BS.


mustardness
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@sadolite
You are the one with the ego.
Never claimed I dont have an ego. Your confused. 

You can confiscate all the world's wealth and give it to who you think is poor and it will all be right back in the same hands of the people you took it from in ten years.
Tiger Woods wife made this abundantly clear when she stated that, 'money does bring a person happiness but it does make it easier to do things' ex fly back-n-forth internationally with children during and after divorce procedings.

You don't care about suffering and the poor, you give useless lip service and try and place blame on people like me that call out your BS.
OMG your ego is on a continual INward --or OUTward spiral--  blaming others for your intellect, compassion and empathetic shortcomings. 

Are you on prescriptions of mental issues?

They pay most in some Scandanivian countries? 

Some may have paid, for the greater good, with their lives  in some cases.  Some consider sacrificing self for the others a great thing. A great act. It takes more courage to die for death than to kill for death.

The greatest evil may  be in denying truth when we know that, or believe it is the truth.

All-for-one and one-for-all is a circle of being communitarian and tehe best way forward for humanity for most years with least sufferreing.

Mind-forward instead of your butt-forward bumping into future of errors and bruising our rear end.


sadolite
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@mustardness
My ego has nothing to do with it. Your ignorance of human nature is beyond pale. Your ignorance of what real poverty is is beyond pale. Your ignorance of the entire world around you is beyond pale. You are nothing but a cacophony of personal attacks, ignorance and lip service. You are a dime a dozen.
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@sadolite
My ego has nothing to do with it. Your ignorance of human nature is beyond pale. Your ignorance of what real poverty is is beyond pale. Your ignorance of the entire world around you is beyond pale. You are nothing but a cacophony of personal attacks, ignorance and lip service. You are a dime a dozen.
Both of our egos have everything to do with the future of humanity. 

And again, your presume to know something about my life experiences beyond what I stated in this thread, and you do not.  That is your ego speaking with any evidence for its claims.

>< = dumb=bell effect of growing divide between rich and poor

<> = octahedral fat middle class and least amount or rich and poor is the best way forward for humanities longer term survival.

The evolutionary way forward needs to be hybrid of social concerns via a spiritual based governance and capitalism creativity of the individuals initiative.

All-for-one and One-for-all is the best option moving forward.

>< = diametrically extreme polarization is likened to EMRadiational charges of pos + and -neg and is ok for specific speccal-case targeting, however, it has to be subject to a great set of considerations as;

( ) = integral unification as one wholistic set.

(><) = greater whole contains the special/local-case, not the other way around.

sadolite
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@mustardness
This conversation has become meaningless and pointless. It isn't about poverty or suffering. It is about you trying to counter everything I say. You could not give a rats ass about the poor except to give lip service and you really aren't even doing that.
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@sadolite
You presume to know something about my life experiences ---beyond what I stated in this thread-- and you do not.  That is your ego speaking with -out any evidence for your claims.

We need a hybrid pathway into the future that involves spiritual based government that allows for initiative of the individual. Consider the Swiss hybrid approach to advancing the German based Swiss Knife.

Swiss Army Knife

..."1. They were born in Germany, not Switzerland.

The first Swiss Army knives { 1890 }were actually produced in Germany by Wester & Co.

....In order to provide a level of competition and ensure the quality of goods and goals of production, the Swiss government awarded 50 percent of their order contract to Victorinox, and 50 percent to another Swiss cutlery company, Wenger.

...5. Some even come with thermometers. And ballpoint pens. And_____g  flashlights.

The SwissChampXAVT is the largest production Victorinox Swiss Army Knife, and includes over 44 tools that serve over 80 functions. (). s

......Every inch of raw steel is inspected, as well as the content of the metal digitally analyzed for tensile strength. The blades are cut, polished, forged and then ground down and sharpened, and then stamped—where again, they are inspected by real eyes and real hands and real micrometers after every single step of production. Perfectionism is an understatement.

....Luckily, spotting the difference between a real-deal Swiss Army Knife and a fake is simple. The trick is in the spring mechanism and the telltale Swiss Army Knife “snap” of the tools. You can also tell by the classic Victorinox shield, as well as the inscription on the big blade: “Victorinox Swiss Made.” If your knife doesn’t have these qualities, chances are, you got duped.

You just can’t fake quality.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>< = dumb=bell effect of growing divide between rich and poor is well, just plain dumb pathway forward

<> = octahedral fat middle class and least amount or rich and poor is the best{ smart } pathway forward for humanities longest term survival.

The evolutionary way forward needs to be hybrid of social concerns via a spiritual based governance and capitalism creativity of the individuals initiative.

All-for-one and One-for-all is the best option moving forward.



sadolite
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@mustardness
complete irrelevant blather, you talk to hear yourself talk
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@sadolite
complete irrelevant blather, you talk to hear yourself talk
That you consider truth to be  "blather" is not suprising to any rational, logical common sense users of DArt.

That you only see "meaningless" and "point-less" disscussion of concepts is not suprising to rational, logical common sense useers of DArt.

The truth exists for those who seek it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need a hybrid pathway into the future that involves spiritual based government that allows for initiative of the individual. Consider the Swiss hybrid approach to advancing the German based Swiss Knife.

Swiss Army Knife

..."1. They were born in Germany, not Switzerland.

The first Swiss Army knives { 1890 }were actually produced in Germany by Wester & Co.

....In order to provide a level of competition and ensure the quality of goods and goals of production, the Swiss government awarded 50 percent of their order contract to Victorinox, and 50 percent to another Swiss cutlery company, Wenger.

...5. Some even come with thermometers. And ballpoint pens. And_____g  flashlights.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>< = dumb-bell effect of growing divide between rich and poor is, well, just plain dumb pathway forward

<> = octahedral fat middle class and least amount or rich and poor is the best{ smart } pathway forward for humanities longest term survival.

All-for-one and One-for-all is the best option moving forward.



94 days later

EternitiesGate
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@ethang5
The solution to POVERTY is the END of CURRENCY...which is now in progress with BLOCKCHAIN TECHNOLOGIES

Soon actual paper and coin will join the rotary phone in history....not as a practical TOOL....

The evolution of INFORMATION ACCESS to the human species along with all of humanity itself cooperating to design and
build infrastructure where all humans can exist in comfort is beyond some idiotic MONETARY VALUE...

Take for example the GHOST CITIES of CHINA which can accomodate 2 - 4 million humans and are EMPTY ?
These Cities were built in a very short period of time...which proves beyond any doubt that HUMANS can
design - develop - build clean safe reliable energy empowered cities....and preserve the land space for other
uses beyond ravaging and cancer spreading communities that destroy the landscape and much more
environmentally...

Emphasis on GREEN WORLD ENGINEERING using ...sun - atmosphere water extraction - water desalination and
purification facilities - and abundant AC energy like TESLA pondered in his time...

All of the great minds that had solutions to the energy and water issues were EXTERMINATED or OPPRESSED
by the Global GAME of THRONES psychopaths..who are concerned with power and control of the masses and
Earth resources...

The SOLUTION to POVERTY is the EXTERMINATION of the ELITE POWERBASE CONSTRUCT which is built 
on BANKING....end IT and THRIVE !
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@ethang5
If you’re not allocating resources at all, you are creating new money—you’re effectively engaging in an extreme form of quantitative easing by injecting money directly into the economy (without purchasing any securities). In fact, it’s not even quantitative easing, because in quantitative easing, (1) governments get assets, in the form of government bonds, out of it, and (2) the money is used to increase the liquidity of banks, not directly transferred to individuals. That would be a problem because it would result in high inflation, reduce the purchasing power of that money, and, by extension, damage the lives of people. 

Money only has value because we create such value—so it is a limited resource, albeit not an intangible one. If you’re not creating new money, you’d be giving out a $1 million cash transfer to the poor (most cash transfers are through bank accounts anyway; bank money isn’t, in the large scale, functionally different than physical cash). 

This something you’d learn in Econ 101.
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@ethang5
To explain this slightly further. 

The system of money that virtually every country in the world uses is called “fiat money.” The money itself is imaginary. It may be represented by paper, by a check, or by numbers on a digital screen. But the paper of a $10 note doesn’t have $10 of intrinsic value. It’s value that is accepted by society. 

Given that, printing $1 million in cash and giving every poor person $1 million in cash and creating new $1 million bank accounts are the exact same thing. But the creation of huge amounts of money suddenly causes inflation—in fact, it has, almost always, been the main cause of inflation. Zimbabwe and Venezuela experienced hyperinflation crises by doing far less. 

Economist Greg Mankiw, in his popular Econ 101 textbook Principles of Economics, explains:

In January 1921, a daily newspaper in Germany cost 0.30 marks. Less than two years later, in November 1922, the same newspaper cost 70,000,000 marks. All other prices in the economy rose by similar amounts. This episode is one of history’s most spectacular examples of inflation, an increase in the overall level of prices in the economy.

Although the United States has never experienced inflation even close to that of Germany in the 1920s, inflation has at times been an economic problem. During the 1970s, for instance, when the overall level of prices more than doubled, President Gerald Ford called inflation “public enemy number one.” By contrast, inflation in the first decade of the 21st century ran about 2½ percent per year; at this rate, it would take almost 30 years for prices to double. Because high inflation imposes various costs on society, keeping inflation at a low level is a goal of economic policymakers around the world.

What causes inflation? In almost all cases of large or persistent inflation, the culprit is growth in the quantity of money. When a government creates large quantities of the nation’s money, the value of the money falls. In Germany in the early 1920s, when prices were on average tripling every month, the quantity of money was also tripling every month. Although less dramatic, the economic history of the United States points to a similar conclusion: The high inflation of the 1970s was associated with rapid growth in the quantity of money, and the return of low inflation in the 1980s was associated with slower growth in the quantity of money.
Another explanation is from economists Tyler Cowen and Alex Tabarrok, in their Econ 101 textbook, Modern Principles of Economics:

Yes, economic policy can be useful but sometimes policy goes awry, for instance, when inflation gets out of hand. Inflation, one of the most common problems in macroeconomics, refers to an increase in the general level of prices. Inflation makes people feel poorer but, perhaps more important, rising andespecially volatile prices make it harder for people to figure out the real values of goods, services, and investments. For these and other reasons, most people (and economists) dislike inflation.

But where does inflation come from? The answer is simple: Inflation comesabout when there is a sustained increase in the supply of money. When peoplehave more money, they spend it, and without an increase in the supply of goods, prices must rise. As Nobel laureate Milton Friedman once wrote: “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.”

The United States, like other advanced economies, has a central bank; in the United States that bank is called the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve has the power and the responsibility to regulate the supply of money in the American economy. This power can be used for good, such as when the Federal Reserve holds off or minimizes a recession. But the poweralso can be used for great harm if the Federal Reserve encourages too much growth in the supply of money. The result will be inflation and economic disruption.

In Zimbabwe, the government ran the printing presses at full speed for many years. By the end of 2007, prices were rising at an astonishing rate of 150,000 percent per year. The United States has never had a problem of this scope or anything close to it but inflation remains a common concern.

Amazingly, the inflation rate in Zimbabwe kept rising. In January of 2008, the government had to issue a 10-million-dollar bank note (worth about 4 U.S. dollars), and a year later they announced a 20-trillion-dollar note that bought about what 10 million dollars had a year earlier. In early 2009, the inflation rate leaped to billions of percent per month! Finally, in April of 2009 the government stopped issuing the Zimbabwean dollar altogether and permitted trade using foreign currencies such as the South African rand and U.S. dollar.