Talking to God

Author: Castin

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@ResurgetExFavilla
Well, I say things but I don't hear a voice. That's really, really, rare, and usually involves some sort of apparition or command to carry out a great holy work.
So how does it happen? I mean from the sound of it that would freak me out. Like not just the apparition thing but the whole being responsible for doing some great divine task thing.
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@Tejretics
All of that is interesting and makes sense.

To be honest I'm glad to not be an atheist any more because (in the US especially) atheism has developed into this weird cottage industry of smug intellectual kitsch.
I agree with this.

I usually just identify as “non-religious,” for the same reason.
I just say I'm an atheist because it's the truth. People usually do then attribute to me the stigma you are trying to avoid.

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@Castin
Really?   Here in the UK atheism is just about the norm.  To quote wikipedia.

"Non-religious people have risen to the highest ranks of UK politics, including at least three Prime Ministers, one Deputy Prime Minister, and several Leaders of the Opposition."  

Practically everyone I know is non-religious.
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@keithprosser
I think just the fact that you're using "non-religious" and "atheist" interchangeably here might be telling of the difference in our cultures. In America the two carry very different weight.

I expect that because America is much more fervently religious than the UK, to the extent that affirming one's religious pride is a necessary step to winning any serious political election, atheist culture and religious culture share pronounced mutual hostility that has influenced both sides and turned them into something different in America. Particularly I think it's made American atheists angrier, more impatient, even smug and contemptuous. Imo it's fair to say they're confronted by fundamentalism and religious ignorance on a more frequent basis. Many of them have allowed this to turn them into the same prejudiced black-and-white thinkers they claim religious people to be.
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@Castin
Well, the most prevalent examples are things like apparitions, where someone is told to build a church somewhere or found a holy order, and then all the stars seem to align to allow the person to fulfill the task. Perhaps the most famous modern example is Mother Angelica, who built the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament in Alabama after receiving a vision instructing her to do so. Typically these apparitions appear to people who already have a very strong relationship with God, it doesn't just happen to a random person. After all, if God knows what your disposition is. There would be no point in Him asking you for something that you could not provide. One of Mother Angelica's more memorable quotes is 'Unless we're willing to do the ridiculous, God will not do the miraculous.' When God looks at a person, there is no past or future, only the present, and God sees every potential chain of reaction which that person could possibly take from that moment. He sees not only a person's entire life, but every possible life that they could have. So when he intercedes in such a drastic manner, it is because he understands what the outcome will likely be beforehand. The person is in a sort of 'dead end' branch of the maze of free will where most of the paths lead to one narrow chokepoint. People typically only get to this point through a lifetime of striving to align their own will to the will of God.

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@ResurgetExFavilla
How is it that you know so much about what god knows?
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Since every atheist claims to be present when ever religion was started I can claim to talk to gods. 
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@witchypoo.
Citation witchypoo.
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@keithprosser
America is much more religious than most of Europe.
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@Tejretics
I must visit sometime.
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@Tejretics

All of that is interesting and makes sense.

To be honest I'm glad to not be an atheist any more because (in the US especially) atheism has developed into this weird cottage industry of smug intellectual kitsch.
I agree with this.

I usually just identify as “non-religious,” for the same reason.

I read your profile and I'm interested to know if you have always been an atheist or was it your high school education that changed your mind on theism. A weak atheist is more like an agnostic, is it not? According to some Gallup poles, high school and university are the environments that most who once proclaim Christ shuffle off their Christianity. I believe they do so because they were unprepared by the Church environment to meet the challenges of skepticism and were not given enough knowledge of the reasonableness of the Bible to counter secularism and materialism.

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@Tejretics
I see you just initiated an abortion debate on DDO as well.

Since this is not an abortion thread can I ask you a few questions on this particular subject, perhaps through private correspondence?
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@PGA2.0
I must've forgotten to respond to this, P.

let's say you had lived as a contemporary of Joan of Arc, a devout Christian who claimed that God spoke to her, telling her it was his will that she help lead France to victory against England. Judging her claim against the "blueprint" of the Bible, would you have believed her? 
I do not know enough of her story to make a decision at present. I have not done much reading on her or the culture of the time.
That's a valid answer. I don't consider it a dodge. Intimate knowledge of the situation is necessary to make an informed judgment.

You say you believe some wars are just, and I agree -- well, more like I think some wars start for reasons that are just. But do you think that God ever truly supports the sociopolitical goals of certain nations or powers, ever favors one side over another in a political conflict? He was known to do this in the Bible. Do you believe he takes sides in post-biblical history?

I used to have a friend who claimed to be a "Word of Faith" or what some call a "name it and claim it" believer. I struggled with his teachings for years, questioning them and praying about them and their truth content. Finally, after much prayer and answers, the Bible became clearer to me on such teachings and I rejected these claims. I did not see any witness of what he claimed believers should be able to do, yet he had claimed to have done some of these acts he spoke of. He believed that one day he would be able to go into a hospital and do what the first-century disciples did in healing the sick, and yes, even raising the dead. He also believed that believers should be the richest people on earth, yet he lived a pretty meager existence.
I'm not really clear on what the "Word of Faith" movement is. But why does conditional salvation mean it must be you who saves you?
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@Castin


let's say you had lived as a contemporary of Joan of Arc, a devout Christian who claimed that God spoke to her, telling her it was his will that she help lead France to victory against England. Judging her claim against the "blueprint" of the Bible, would you have believed her? 
I do not know enough of her story to make a decision at present. I have not done much reading on her or the culture of the time.
That's a valid answer. I don't consider it a dodge. Intimate knowledge of the situation is necessary to make an informed judgment. 
Yeah, I would botch it up.


You say you believe some wars are just, and I agree -- well, more like I think some wars start for reasons that are just. But do you think that God ever truly supports the sociopolitical goals of certain nations or powers, ever favors one side over another in a political conflict? He was known to do this in the Bible. Do you believe he takes sides in post-biblical history?
I see Him blessing nations that honor Him. I believe the USA is one of those nations. I see similarities when nations forget or turn from Him to what happened with OT Israel.  






I used to have a friend who claimed to be a "Word of Faith" or what some call a "name it and claim it" believer. I struggled with his teachings for years, questioning them and praying about them and their truth content. Finally, after much prayer and answers, the Bible became clearer to me on such teachings and I rejected these claims. I did not see any witness of what he claimed believers should be able to do, yet he had claimed to have done some of these acts he spoke of. He believed that one day he would be able to go into a hospital and do what the first-century disciples did in healing the sick, and yes, even raising the dead. He also believed that believers should be the richest people on earth, yet he lived a pretty meager existence.
I'm not really clear on what the "Word of Faith" movement is. But why does conditional salvation mean it must be you who saves you? 

There is always truth in false worldviews because they related to God in some way but I see the "word of Faith" movement it as aberrant Christianity. They twist the gospel message into something it is not. One of its many teachings is that we should be able to do the miracles that Jesus commisioned the early church to do. Another is that we as Christians should be the richest people on earth. Another is the gift of tongues.

Conditional salvation was the message of the Old Covenant. It is the message of all world religions, but one. Conditional salvation is whether or not you can measure up to God's requirements. Christianity is about the One who has, and what He has done for those who will believe. 

She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Again, there is nothing of ourselves in the Gospel message of salvation. It is by His grace that we are saved. 

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

We, as Christians, cannot boast of what we have done, our good works, before God as merit in His eyes to earn our salvation because we fall short of His perfection and purity.


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@PGA2.0
and what He has done for those who will believe. 


That's a condition, no cognitive dissonance allowed.
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@disgusted
That's a condition, no cognitive dissonance allowed.
In context, 'conditional' and 'unconditional' are technical terms used in theological debates between believers.   That is even if belief in Jesus is a given, salvation can be unconditilonal or conditional on other factors.   Natually there is no consensus between sects which is correct!

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@keithprosser
It's still conditional. They play with themselves to claim differently.

345 days later

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@Castin
Talking to God/Universe
To say 'Thank You' is a blessing and a prayer at the same time as well as speaking to God/Universe and a fellow human at the same time.

To be appreciative of life or death is an internalized 'Thank You' for existence or relief from existence.

God/Universe speaks to self via cause and effect aka..... 'Gods Will'.....

Integrity as occupied space exists, and is the primary distinction between that which lacks integrity, the macro-infinite, non-occupied space, that, embraces/surrounds our finite, occupied space Universe.