Should churches give free psychological evaluations

Author: Singularity

Posts

Total: 84
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
It seems there is multiple users here who have a mental illness, who are very vocal Christian's or spiritual in some other respect. 
 
I am not referring to mental illness such as depression, but ones where there are some clear problems with grasping reality. Should religious institutions be required to provide free psychological evaluations to new converts, to see if it was an honest conversion or just the result of some disorder that causes delusions?

Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@Singularity
It should be up to the church.  Some churches would rather donate the money to help people by other means.
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,006
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Singularity
No, as they are entirely unqualified to do so, like in every possible way. For pete's sake the Catholic church believes in actual ghosts. Would you want a mental health check from someone who believes in magic as a cure all?
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Singularity
You are the one who is having trouble grasping reality. If you can't admit The Ultimate Reality exists, you don't even believe in reality. If nothing is ultimately real, the very concept if reality is meaningless.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7

For the record, The Orthodox Church does have a vetting process. The catechuman phase lasts a year or more.


Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@ludofl3x
Psychological evaluations can only legally be performed by licensed psychologists, so preachers or church administration would likely not be the ones the church paid to conduct these evaluations 
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Mopac
Reality obviously exists lol
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,006
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@Singularity
I think any church that wanted to make sure it had sincere followers would swear off recruiting children through the various methods used today. They'd tell parents not to bring children to church once they could understand stories, for example. There wouldn't be CCD (for Catholics) or any other rites of passage. The churches would then have to rely on convincing adults and adults only. 
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@ludofl3x
Eh, probably fair game. People of every possible ideology are already trying to indoctrinate children through school, media and other avenues, it is only fair that the church is allowed to compete with these mostly secular sources in terms of indoctrination. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Singularity
Can you say there is ultimate reality?

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
If the church didn't educate children, the alternative is that they would be educated by secularists who consider religion a mental illness. 

And the end goal is so that secularists such as yourself can bring about something like The Soviet Union, and I bet every single one of you would look the other way if the government tried to stamp out our faith, even if now you pretend to be appalled.


Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Mopac
Reality just is. If you want to label reality as ultimate that is fine. I could also label our sun as the ultimate sun, but really it just the sun. 
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
If we are in a computer simulation and there is some ultimate reality that we are not privy too, I wouldn't assume there was a god as a result if it. Seems like a silly conclusion to jump to
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Mopac
secularists who consider religion a mental illness. 

LMAO that is not what the word secular means.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Singularity
You don't  get it.


It isn't "such and such conception or reality is the ultimate reality". 

It is "The focus and object of our worship is The Ultimate Reality."

And you are confused because you refuse to accept that The Ultimate Reality is what is meant by God.


So now, you say, "of course reality exists", so you know God exists. Your issue is that you still don't recognize what is meant by the word God.


In doing so, you project your own superstitions on to me.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
The world secular means worldly.


And worldly people are indeed blind to the spirit.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,068
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mopac
You don't get it either.


Sure ultimate reality.

But you have no way of knowing what that actually is.


zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,068
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Singularity
Bums on seats, that's where the profit is.

A little something in the collection for God Madam.

Do you think that they really give a toss if the congregation is full of nutters?

Though some cynics might argue that Churches are already full of nutters.

The mad evaluating the mad, if you like.

God help us!
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@ludofl3x
For pete's sake the Catholic church believes in actual ghosts.

Among many other supernatural things, if the scriptures are to be taken at face value.
Deb-8-a-bull
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,940
3
2
3
Deb-8-a-bull's avatar
Deb-8-a-bull
3
2
3
A Church is a building FULL STOP
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
The catechuman phase lasts a year or more.

 Calm me a cynic, but that would be a simple 'probationary' period of initiation. One of five. This is a simple bullshit ritual to convince the new disciple that he is on the way to being accepted by god  (and the movement) This of course will also depend on how much money the new disciple can offer to the movement. The more you have , the more you give, the higher you get. Just like any other freeloading organisation.


This is what happens when one doesn't give to the movement;


But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. [...............................]

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Yes this poor man and his wife were excommunicated (died)  from the "church"  for not giving all they had earned from a sale of some land. But Jesus (and the movement in particular) loves you, If you have enough fkn  Dough.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Mopac
You don't  get it.


It is always someone else who " doesn't get it", isn't  it, Mopac. It never YOU or your church, is it?

disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@zedvictor4
Bums on seats, that's where the profit is.
Sorry zed but you mean prophet. lol

disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
As the Jesus god said, let the mad psychoanalyse the mad.
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,555
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
no one has a mental illness
Singularity
Singularity's avatar
Debates: 11
Posts: 1,013
2
3
8
Singularity's avatar
Singularity
2
3
8
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Would you like to provide premises for why you think there are zero people on the planet with mental illness 
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,555
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Singularity
It seems there is multiple users here who have a mental illness,
No one HERE has a mental illness

Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@Singularity
Would you like to provide premises for why you think there are zero people on the planet with mental illness 
Because "abnormality" is not the same as illness. Illness is a pathological condition which produces symptoms. There has yet to be a mental "illness" that either fits the aforestated description or produces a biochemical basis. This is the reason the APA rarely includes--if at all--the term "illness" when publishing the DSM (currently DSM-5.) The APA has instead opted to use the term "disorder," which is not the same as illness. The inclusion of "illness" in psychiatric lexicon is merely the residual of Jean-Martin Charcot's failed attempt to prove that hysteria had a neuropathological basis.

So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness."

zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,068
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@disgusted
Yep.

Well, they like to thing that they're prophets.
Prophets of false hope, perhaps.

Keep up the good work.

Regards.




Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,256
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Athias
So as of yet, it has not been demonstrated that anyone on the planet has a mental "illness."


Was Jesus "mad"?  Anyone knows that to call someone "mad" is simply a cheap form of abuse. But what is it when the bible uses the word? What's more, what is it when Jesus' own family say of him  having  "lost his mind" -   thought he was "crazy"  -  said  "he's gone mad" -  and to be  "out of his mind" - and  " he has become mad" ?  Mark 3:21



madness

the state of having a serious mental illness.




out of one's mind


  1. having lost control of one's mental faculties. having lost control of one's mental faculties.

Similar:
mad

insane

deranged

demented

not in one's right mind

non compos mentis

unbalanced

mad as a hatter

mad as a March hare

away with the fairies