The fundamental problem with capitalism (as described by Bo Burnham

Author: secularmerlin

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Lemming
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@secularmerlin
I don't believe in a perfect world.
Except for an odd side idea of this being the best of all possible worlds for 'me, by virtue, I wouldn't be 'me without everything that's happened in my life.
Though it's not a side idea I take very seriously, just one I had 2 or 3 years ago when I read Candide by Voltaire.
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@Lemming
Ok, perhaps "perfection" is too restrictive.

Can you please provide a "rough sketch" of your general political framework?

Or perhaps just a few key "improvements" you'd like to see implemented?
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@Lemming
That sounds like government regulation to me.
In this proposal, there would be ZERO regulation of BUSINESS (specifically).
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@fauxlaw
I am talking about charitable giving, and you throw me an industrial fire, with complaint about wages. I don't see the connection, and will not ask for one. I doubt one exists. Try stayng on point.
This is only one tiny example of exactly how "charitable" a corporation is when they are "free from regulation".

There is no reason to try and resort to "hypotheticals".

Just glance over a few pages of history.
Lemming
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@3RU7AL
If people are 'guaranteed something.
Then it implies 'someone is guaranteeing it.

I'm fairly weak on knowledge of government and economics.
I suppose that people forming Unions is good.
The breaking of Monopolies seems good.

I don't have much of a political framework, well thought out I think.
I like tradition.
I like freedom.
I like limited government.
I like benevolent laws, but again, 'limited laws.
I think communities should solve their own problems, and not blame others, or beg help so much.
I like a balanced amount of economic imports and exports.
I think America should expand more, less our culture be swallowed. By that I mean an immigration policy the same as economic policy.
I think guns are a right, to the able and the proven.
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@Lemming
I think communities should solve their own problems, and not blame others, or beg help so much.
So would you say you're pro-self-reliance and anti-FEMA?
Lemming
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@3RU7AL
I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
I figure if communities gave more effort, care, and planning. . They wouldn't 'need the government so much.
If the heating is out in a school, or it doesn't have much money, what type of community is it, that can't look after itself, or has 'NO members of the community able or willing to solve the problem themselves.

Not that I'm one for community or charity work myself.
Just seems to me, people sometimes, perhaps often, have themselves to blame for their circumstance.
secularmerlin
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@Lemming
I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
I figure if communities gave more effort, care, and planning. . They wouldn't 'need the government so much.
If the heating is out in a school, or it doesn't have much money, what type of community is it, that can't look after itself, or has 'NO members of the community able or willing to solve the problem themselves.

Not that I'm one for community or charity work myself.
Just seems to me, people sometimes, perhaps often, have themselves to blame for their circumstance
Communities that are economically disadvantaged are by definition less able to be 'self reliant'. Does that mean that people in poorer areas are less deserving of education, heat and food? Is deciding whose 'fault' it is that some areas are disadvantaged really more important than finding some solution to the problem?

Also you never answered my question. What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
Lemming
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@secularmerlin
What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
I don't know. But I'll offer, express the will of the people.
(Edit) - Perhaps as well regulation for the good of the people, despite their will at times. Though 'careful on that one.

Communities that are economically disadvantaged are by definition less able to be 'self reliant'. Does that mean that people in poorer areas are less deserving of education, heat and food? Is deciding whose 'fault' it is that some areas are disadvantaged really more important than finding some solution to the problem?
I do not believe that communities should be 'discriminated against.
I believe that it is in the interest of communities to help one another, for net gain.
The solution, sometimes, feels obvious.

Understanding that one's circumstance rests within our own hands, should give rise to effort, I say.
Rather than being a 'victim of circumstance.
My second brother is a drug addict and a bum, one could argue that his circumstances led to this, that it is not important to place the blame on him, but instead to seek ways to help him.
But I say people should be aware of themselves and their 'own power to endure life, to change it.
It 'IS, my second brothers fault that he is the way he is.
And he 'Deserves such circumstance, so far as any person 'can deserve their circumstance.

We've talked about free will before, and causation.
But without personal 'Responsibility, what becomes of people?

I am saddened by my brothers circumstance, and when I speak of deserve, I mean that more in the sense, that you get what you give.
It's just being practical.
To say a person deserves, is to say what occurs.
. . .
. . .
Perhaps, I'm not set on such an interpretation. But I am a fan of Ego, Pride, Self Worth.
secularmerlin
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@Lemming
What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
I don't know. But I'll offer, express the will of the people.
What if the will of the people is heinous as it was in the southern states before the civil war? Is a government regulation that informs and enforces the will of the people to be prejudiced a 'good' regulation?
Lemming
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@secularmerlin
Seems to me government is the expression of the people, for good or ill.
Government is a tool, an expression, an avatar.
To express 'what the people are, is it's nature.
This may be a tyrant, or a democracy.
Slaves, or Freemen.

That we should want the Government to be 'good, is an expression of our nature.
But in the end, the government is a tool.
3RU7AL
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@Lemming
I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
WTF.
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@Lemming
I do not believe that communities should be 'discriminated against.
I believe that it is in the interest of communities to help one another, for net gain.
The solution, sometimes, feels obvious.
(IFF) you have not the skill or the resources to GROW AND GATHER YOUR OWN FOOD (THEN) it doesn't matter how much "good will" your "community" has, you will be required to beg, bully, and or steal to survive.

This is what was done to the Lakota.

All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.

They didn't want cash-religion-of-money-token$.

They didn't want "free" (dogfood) hand-outs.

They didn't want "disaster relief".

They didn't want "education" (brainwashing and cultural annihilation).

All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.

All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.
Lemming
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@3RU7AL
I don't see a problem with the Government helping people out if it's able.
Though I think people should be able to help themselves out.

The American people 'are the American government.
If a city possesses a Mayor, Police. It possesses government.

I am not familiar with the details of the Lakota's struggle.
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@Lemming
Seems to me government is the expression of the people, for good or ill.
Government is a tool, an expression, an avatar.
I WISH.

Lemming
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@3RU7AL
If the government is corrupt, or the government a yoke upon the people.
Then this too, represents the people of that nation, and their nature.
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@Lemming
I don't see a problem with the Government helping people out if it's able.
MORAL HAZARD.


After a storm "the government" pays the wealthy hotel owners to "rebuild" (over and over and over and over again).

They also maintain the beautiful beaches (with your tax dollars).

Ask yourself WHY your taxes are paying for private security for airports?

Ask yourself WHY your taxes are paying for private air-traffic-controllers?

How much do you think a plane ticket would cost if they had to pay for their own security and their own logistics??
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@Lemming
If the government is corrupt, or the government a yoke upon the people.
Then this too, represents the people of that nation, and their nature.
Well stated.

"the people" are like sleeping children.
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@secularmerlin
What if the will of the people is heinous as it was in the southern states before the civil war? Is a government regulation that informs and enforces the will of the people to be prejudiced a 'good' regulation?
Actually yes.

If a county or a state wants to allow certain behavior within their jurisdiction, no matter how "morally repugnant" that behavior is to "outsiders" they must be free to exercise their sovereignty WITHIN their territorial borders.

When that behavior crosses county lines, it becomes a STATE concern.

When that behavior crosses state lines, it becomes a FEDERAL concern.
fauxlaw
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@3RU7AL
Just glance over a few pages of history.
I have a PhD in history, my friend. You don't need to lecture. You?

History says, even after 50 years of OSHA regulation, that the leading cause of worker death is motor vehicle accidents, and the majority of those is driver error. Next is falls, and the leading cause of that is worker error. That's history. Industry has been fighting against worker irresponsibility since the industrial revolution. Highest issue: training retention. You can lead a horse to water...
secularmerlin
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@Lemming
So in your view 

A: persons born into impoverished communities are less deserving of education and resources 

And

B: government regulations that promote harm to certain groups are of equal value as government regulations that promote wellbeing equally to all groups.

If I am mistaken I welcome any clarification 0f your arguments.
secularmerlin
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@3RU7AL
What if the will of the people is heinous as it was in the southern states before the civil war? Is a government regulation that informs and enforces the will of the people to be prejudiced a 'good' regulation?
Actually yes.

If a county or a state wants to allow certain behavior within their jurisdiction, no matter how "morally repugnant" that behavior is to "outsiders" they must be free to exercise their sovereignty WITHIN their territorial borders.

When that behavior crosses county lines, it becomes a STATE concern.

When that behavior crosses state lines, it becomes a FEDERAL concern.
Perhaps but I wouldn't want to live there.
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@fauxlaw
History says, even after 50 years of OSHA regulation, that the leading cause of worker death is motor vehicle accidents, and the majority of those is driver error. Next is falls, and the leading cause of that is worker error. That's history. Industry has been fighting against worker irresponsibility since the industrial revolution. Highest issue: training retention. You can lead a horse to water...
Are you suggesting that OSHA has led to a net INCREASE in workplacerelatedinjuries??

It seems obvious to me that there were MORE injuries when "industry" was left to its own devices.
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@secularmerlin
Perhaps but I wouldn't want to live there.
We should vote with our feet (and our wallets).
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@secularmerlin
If a county or a state wants to allow certain behavior within their jurisdiction, no matter how "morally repugnant" that behavior is to "outsiders" they must be free to exercise their sovereignty WITHIN their territorial borders.

When that behavior crosses county lines, it becomes a STATE concern.

When that behavior crosses state lines, it becomes a FEDERAL concern.
Perhaps The Wicker Man (1973) might be a reasonable illustration of this idea.
Danielle
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@secularmerlin
Without rapists, who's gonna buy your whistles?

There are many things wrong with the critique of capitalism presented in the OP, but just for the record there could be zero rapes and you could still sell a shit ton of rape whistles so long as #1 people still fear rape will occur and #2 people think rapes are being deterred by the whistles. 
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@Danielle
It is an oversimplification but it illustrates one of capitalism's largest weaknesses in regards to promoting human welbeing.
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@secularmerlin Forgot to direct this at you, was focused on writing it.
So in your view 
A: persons born into impoverished communities are less deserving of education and resources 
And
B: government regulations that promote harm to certain groups are of equal value as government regulations that promote wellbeing equally to all groups.
If I am mistaken I welcome any clarification 0f your arguments.
No, that is not the view I intend to say.
. . . My view is 'intended to speak of people's 'own power over themselves and their situation.
To argue that they should look to themselves, not lament or cry so for help.
Not that I haven't grumbled over circumstance, or asked for help before.
I don't even mean it as 'that damning of an idea.
It's similar to how in some forum post, the user Willow, once lambasted some religious family for praying, rather than working to improve their circumstance amidst a disaster.
Though I did not care for his interpretation, finding his words unduly harsh, and lacking an understanding that some people do not possess the capability to respond to certain circumstance or that certain circumstance can overwhelm.
. . .
Still, so long as one places value on human understanding, action, autonomy.
So too, do they hold value in the idea of humans being able to make their own circumstance.
If a person messes up at work due to carelessness, then they have brought that mistake upon themselves, they deserved it for being careless.
I don't mean to leave it at that, criticism, I mean.
But as admonition to practice and build 'stronger awareness of one's surroundings.

Nor do I mean it as merely criticism, when I frown upon a community for not being able to help themselves, but because I believe they can be better than that.
If it were a community of people possessing mental frailty and illness, I would simply remark upon it with no criticism,
But for the standard human, why should more 'not be expected?
Lemming
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@secularmerlin
I think individuals and groups should have a sense of responsibility for how they confront existence, no matter what it is.
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@Lemming
My view is 'intended to speak of people's 'own power over themselves and their situation.
No one has power over the situation although arguably the wealthy have more power over their situation. 
Though I did not care for his interpretation, finding his words unduly harsh, and lacking an understanding that some people do not possess the capability to respond to certain circumstance or that certain circumstance can overwhelm.
I can relate to that feeling right now. 
when I frown upon a community for not being able to help themselves (due to systemic poverty), but because I believe they can be better than that (being subject to systemic poverty).
Ok but communities are made up of individuals and impoverished individuals do not have the same power to enact change as wealthy individuals. 
If it were a community of people possessing mental frailty and illness, I would simply remark upon it with no criticism,
Ok what about a community socially/economically disadvantaged people?
I think individuals and groups should have a sense of responsibility for how they confront existence, no matter what it is.
Yes but not for how existence confronts them.