Man arrested for owning the wrong book

Author: Wylted

Posts

Total: 28
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Recentlya man was arrested for owning the anarchist cook book and having right wing views. https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19321249.former-university-student-jailed-terrorism-offence/

This is a book that is just a copy paste of openly available military manuals available several decades ago, for anyone who doesn't know, and something we have basically all owned as children for the shock value it got us. Not that it matters, the fact is it should never be illegal to own a book, even if that book is controversial.  
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
At least he isn't reading Mein Kampf with Mao stickers on it.
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
The funny thing is it is legal to own the anarchist cookbook in England, but he happened to own it while also having the wrong political ideology. 


Rules for me, but not thee
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Wylted
Anarchist COOKBOOK? Does it include how to make Molotov Cocktails?

I have no trouble regarding its legal status, but what exactly made the cookbook anarchist?

And, WHY would a right-leaner own such a book?
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
Nothing really makes it anarchist, it talks about things like making pirate radio stations, bomb making and manufacturing drugs.
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
Man arrested for owning the wrong book
In fact, Oliver Bel was under investigation for contacts with terrorist cells when he posted on Facebook that he was ready to go "on a killing spree" and the police felt compelled to act.

it should never be illegal to own a book, even if that book is controversial.  
It is not illegal to purchase or own "The Anarchist's Cookbook" in the UK.    

Authorities noted that Bel bought the book immediately after contacting National Socialist Anti-Capitalist Action, a far-right neo-Nazi terrorist organization based in the UK and registered as a banned Terrorist organization, who Bel asked for ways to take action in support of their terrorism.  This book served as one piece of evidence that Bel was actively collecting intelligence for the benefit of a terrorist organization and for the purpose of committing terrorist acts.  We might note that Anarchist's Cookbook was the source for recipes for bombs in a large number of high profile terrorist events including the London Nail Bombing, the London Public Transport Bombings, The Oklahoma City Bomb, the Atlanta Olympics Bombings,  and the Columbine shooters. I own a copy myself, somewhere, and  I'd point out that there's no information in the book that isn't readily available online.

We should note that a similar case of a young soldier of fortune who fought with Kurds in Syria against ISIS was similarly charged  in the UK in 2017 for downloading the book while googling how to get away with credit card fraud.  A jury found that defendant innocent because he wasn't acquiring the book on behalf of any terrorists and an inquiry was launched into how such an unsupportable charge could be laid.

So
buying books about bombs=good
buying books about bombs for active terrorist cells=bad


Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
I still say that gathering information for terrorists should be legal. No action should be taken until you do a crime. 

Participate in planning = should be clear legally.

Carry out plans= should be illegal.

This makes it easier for high IQ people to reach their objectives, and we as a society want high IQ individuals such as those termed "master minds " to be uninhibited when pursuing their goals. 

A person with an IQ of 100, should have less freedom than one with a IQ of 180, the suggested changes to the laws I make above would help high IQ individuals have more influence over society.  
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,689
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Wylted
A person with an IQ of 100, should have less freedom than one with a IQ of 180,
thus establishing that we need never mistake Wylted's philosophy as a reflection of American values.
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@oromagi
thus establishing that we need never mistake Wylted's philosophy as a reflection of American values.

God I hope not. American values are crap.  American values are better than liberal values by far. Like conservatives believe cheating is bad, and you saw how stoic Mike Pence was. He behaved like a conservative even when Trump put him in danger. 

American values is what created the bureaucracy that put me in abusive foster homes, and when I ran away from an abusive parent the police brought me back and called me a bad role model for my younger siblings. 

I like sharing personal stories, but if things like MKULTRA, the Tuskegee experiments, slavery and a destructive foreign policy don't prove America is evil both before and after the liberal infestation of government, I don't know what will. 
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,087
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@Wylted
I still say that gathering information for terrorists should be legal. No action should be taken until you do a crime. 

Participate in planning = should be clear legally.

Carry out plans= should be illegal.

This makes it easier for high IQ people to reach their objectives, and we as a society want high IQ individuals such as those termed "master minds " to be uninhibited when pursuing their goals. 

A person with an IQ of 100, should have less freedom than one with a IQ of 180, the suggested changes to the laws I make above would help high IQ individuals have more influence over society.  
This is the most fun opinion anyone's ever had on here. Wylted, you really are some sort of genius. 
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,087
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
You might make the argument that making it easier is lowering the bar a little bit too, maybe what we really want is the super geniuses that come out of nowhere altogether, as if godly creation, and we'll ignore a few explosively bad ideas that way too. But I do like this idea of a world shaped by bombers. The debates surely do get boring after a while. 
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@badger
This is the most fun opinion anyone's ever had on here. Wylted, you really are some sort of genius. 
That's true. I think statements like that being uncomfortable yet objectively true is why you will never see a too debater like oro, challenge my assertion that smart people should have more rights by instigating a debate
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,087
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,087
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@Wylted
I read zero debates but I would read this one. 
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Wylted
LMAO - sure - let's let the people who "know what they're doing" run everything let's see how well that does

Supporters of IQ testing have been quick to point to correlations between IQ and job performance as evidence of test validity. A closer look at the data and results, however, suggests a rather murkier picture. Here we have acknowledged the methodological advances in meta-analyses from which such evidence has been drawn, while drawing attention to the problems surrounding them in this particular area. We conclude with a summary of the main points:
  1. Much in developmental theory, and psychology in general, depends upon the validity of IQ tests.
  2. In the absence of agreed construct validity this has weighed heavily on indirect validity using correlations with criterion outcomes among which job performance has a special status.
  3. Hundreds of studies prior to the 1970s reported low and/or inconsistent correlations between IQ and job performance.
  4. These correlations have been approximately doubled using corrections for supposed errors in primary results and combining them in meta-analyses. Such corrections have many strengths, theoretically, but are compromised in these cases by the often uncertain quality of the primary studies.
  5. The corrections to sampling errors, measurement errors, and to range restriction have required making a number of assumptions that may not be valid and have created a number of persistently contentious issues.
  6. The claim that the IQ-job performance correlation increases with job complexity is not born out in more recent studies.
  7. A range of other—including noncognitive—factors could explain a correlation between IQ and job performance, and even constitute part or all of the enigmatic “general factor.”
  8. There remains great uncertainty about the interpretation of IQ-job performance correlations and great caution needs to be exercised in using them as a basis for the validity of IQ tests and associated concepts.
As others have pointed out, statistical corrections are no magical compensation for weak data and that it is risky to reach conclusions about test validities from those currently available (Oswald & McCloy, 2003; Russell & Gilliland, 1995). The only solution is properly conducted primary studies, with larger representative samples, better measures, and so on. Until they are available, investigators should be extremely cautious about disseminating conclusions about IQ test validities, from correlations between IQ and job performance.
We don't even know if IQ tests can accurately predict job success much less if they're leaders. 
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Theweakeredge
We don't even know if IQ tests can accurately predict job success much less if they're leaders. 

It can predict ability to acquire knowledge and understand obscure theories. Geniuses are more likely able to solve world problems than plebs. So I say give them a free pass to do what they want.
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
-->
@Wylted
pirate radio stations, bomb making and manufacturing drugs.
Someone is getting the labels wrong. At least Molotov Cocktail is a modified drink that is flammable. These have no right being in a COOKBOOK. It is a craftbook alright.

Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
A person with an IQ of 100, should have less freedom than one with a IQ of 180, the suggested changes to the laws I make above would help high IQ individuals have more influence over society. 
IDK if I am too late for this.

However, you probably should give them all the same basic human rights. If the 180 IQ man made more out of the same things given because he is smarter, that is his responsibility for being smart.

For opportunities, The same also. You are picking the 180 IQ one for the position because he is smarter anyway.

In the end, there is absolutely no need to change laws. Changing those laws will only make the less smart more angry at you and even less smart because anger makes their thinking span short. What we need is to make the less smart smarter, not less smart.

Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
I still say that gathering information for terrorists should be legal. No action should be taken until you do a crime. 
That is too idealistic. Most of the time, when one explosion happen, the second one is already in planning.

If the police are an all-benevolent God, then that statement would probably be taken. However, when harm has been done, it is normally too late.

Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Wylted
Suure - got any sources to back up that claim?
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Intelligence_06
However, you probably should give them all the same basic human rights. If the 180 IQ man made more out of the same things given because he is smarter, that is his responsibility for being smart.
You know that all kinds of good stuff is banned from intelligent people, because dumb people ruin it for everyone. Different laws for geniuses fix this. No need to ban me from hallucinogen for example
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Theweakeredge
I am not going to give sources to back up the claim intelligent people are more intelligent LOL
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Wylted
I am asking you to back up the claim that IQ testing is an accurate way to determine intelligence, and that IQ is, in any way, an indicator of general intelligence. 
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Theweakeredge
It really is an accurate predictor.  Not sure why people let obvious mumbo jumbo hinder their common sense. Go find a person with an IQ of 60 and one with an IQ of 120 and have a ten minute conversation. If you can't figure out which one is smarter after that, you likely have an intelligence problem yourself.

I didn't want to go there, but you actually cherry picked points on the study you shared. One part talked about and cited some other studies showing a moderate amount of IQ with performance. 

Youth really shouldn't let things like this confuse you though. There is a reason why mentally disabled people score low on IQ tests and why people M in fields like Doctornor engineer score high on IQ tests. That is because it accurately measures intelligence 
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Wylted
So.. can you give me the studies that support those claims? And please, do quote that part of the study. 

From your general positions and citations so far, I think you're just bullshiting me. 
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Theweakeredge
They have a handy chart here, but have good citations. https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/occupations.aspx

This is sad you need evidence of things like doctors having Higher average IQs than janitors. Or that mentally disabled people are lower IQ than those scoring 1600 on the SAT. 

Out of curiosity what is your IQ?
Intelligence_06
Intelligence_06's avatar
Debates: 167
Posts: 3,837
5
8
11
Intelligence_06's avatar
Intelligence_06
5
8
11
Some illegal organizations have real smart people. For example, Anonymous the hacker group.

I don't know why we are talking about IQ here. Sure, someone trying to make a weapon from an anarchist craftbook isn't as smart, but those who hacked governmental sites are. We just fear that the former is as smart as the latter and they have an A up their sleeves and actually cause damage.
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@Wylted
Using the Henmon-Nelson model sure - that 20 year old chart is totally going to change my mind - also disregarding the clear sample limitation (graduates from a high school in Wisconsin), and the conclusion of the actual author of the study you pulled from:
"On the basis of the evidence reviewed here, I think it is fair to conclude that the traditional psychometric literature on cognitive ability—popularly resurrected in The Bell Curve—vastly overstates the case for the role of IQ in the stratification process. On the other hand, to say that the case has been overstated—even that it has been overstated with great lapses of scholarship and with racist overtones—does not say that there is no place for cognitive ability in our understanding of the stratification process. Both as defense against excessive claims on both sides of the “IQ debate” and in pursuing the scientific enterprise, we ought to seek and produce new evidence of the role of cognitive abilities in social stratification" (pg. 57)
So yeah - forgive me if I'm not exactly convinced. 

What's my IQ score? Last time I had it tested it was 145.