2022 NBA Finals: Golden State Warriors vs. Boston Celtics.

Author: Athias

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Athias
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Who are your picks? Who do you think will win? Who do you want to win? How does this affect LeBron James? All answers are welcome.
Dr.Franklin
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I'm going with Boston, of course I say this with no bias.

As for Lefraud James, I personally think he can recover from this. A superteam on paper that can't even reach the playoffs? Yeah, he is finished. The guy can't win a ring without the bubble or Ray Allen. Total fraud in my book
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@Dr.Franklin
I'm going with Boston, of course I say this with no bias.
There's always bias, but that's okay, because we're discussing sports.

As for Lefraud James, I personally think he can recover from this.
I don't think that LeBron James is a fraud; it think his well-placed media sycophants are frauds, and that his performance and "all-time status" as a basketball player are overrated. But yeah, his brand will recover from his playoff absence. His sponsors will see to that.

A superteam on paper that can't even reach the playoffs? Yeah, he is finished.
That was a "super-team" in name only.

The guy can't win a ring without the bubble or Ray Allen.
I agree that most of his championship wins have occurred under extraordinary circumstances. I do however give him full credit for his 2012 bout against the Oklahoma City Thunder. While they were a young team, that OKC team beat a veteran Spurs team, and drafted three future MVP's.

As for my pick, I'm going with the Golden State Warriors. While I do think that the Celtics are a great defensive team, the Golden State Warriors are also a great defensive team. And I don't think that Boston will be able to keep track of Golden State's offense. Boston had two match ups which went to a game seven, i.e. the Milwaukee Bucks and Miami Heat, and neither of those teams are of the same caliber as Golden State offensive, and defensively. Besides, I want them to win--that is my bias.
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I want Boston but I think GSW wins in 6.
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GSW in 7
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@Athias
Who are your picks?
Boston in 7

Who do you want to win?
I picked Boston because I don’t believe in Steph come crunch time but I would love to see the greatest shooter of all time prove me wrong with his 1st FMVP.

How does this affect LeBron James?
LeBron James legacy as the 2nd greatest basketball player of all time is pretty much set (him passing Kareem next season might enhance it to some folks) but if anything comes close to challenging it this upcoming finals it’s if Steph’s Warriors win because he would then tie James in championships with a chance of passing him (considering his age and collection of talent around him).

his performance and "all-time status" as a basketball player are overrated.
Just out of curiosity where do you have James ranked all-time as a basketball player?
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@Dr.Franklin
As for Lefraud James, I personally think he can recover from this. A superteam on paper that can't even reach the playoffs? Yeah, he is finished. The guy can't win a ring without the bubble or Ray Allen. Total fraud in my book
He lead 3 different teams to NBA championships. When he was in Cleveland the Cavs had the best record in the NBA. When he left they had the worst record in the NBA. Then he returned and they won a title.

He's not Jordan, but to call him a fraud is crazy.

As for this "super team", we've seen this before. The rockets had Olajuwan, Pippen, and Barkly. The Lakers had Shaq, Malone, Payton, and Kobe. No titles for either of them. The problem is that they're superteams on paper only, and almost always made up of players well past the peak of their careers. This isn't really anything new.
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@Tarik
I picked Boston because I don’t believe in Steph come crunch time but I would love to see the greatest shooter of all time prove me wrong with his 1st FMVP.
He doesn't need a Finals MVP to be a good crunch time player. In fact, Steph Curry is one of the greatest crunch time players despite the narratives put out there. Curry has two of the highest fourth-quarter scores in the history of the NBA Finals. (LeBron James is tied with just one.) Furthermore, Curry has five of 22 of the highest scoring Fourth quarters in the NBA Finals. I also remind that Steph still has the record for highest point total in an overtime during the playoffs. As far as I'm concerned, Curry was the 2015 Finals MVP, and probably should have been the 2018 Finals MVP as well. But I suspect politics and agendas were behind his snubs.

LeBron James legacy as the 2nd greatest basketball player of all time is pretty much set (him passing Kareem next season might enhance it to some folks) but if anything comes close to challenging it this upcoming finals it’s if Steph’s Warriors win because he would then tie James in championships with a chance of passing him (considering his age and collection of talent around him).
I don't think the machine behind LeBron James will allow the narrative to focus on Steph's possibly eclipsing LeBron James in total championships because LeBron James has fewer championships than Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabar, and the narrative still suggests that he's the "second greatest player of all time."

Just out of curiosity where do you have James ranked all-time as a basketball player?
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Stephen Curry
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@Double_R
He lead 3 different teams to NBA championships. When he was in Cleveland the Cavs had the best record in the NBA. When he left they had the worst record in the NBA. Then he returned and they won a title.
I don't count the bubble. I state this because the Lakers had such a precipitous drop off after that bubble championship, despite retaining most of their key pieces (some might say that they enhanced their team) that I call into question the championship caliber of that 2020 Lakers team.

He's not Jordan, but to call him a fraud is crazy.
I agree. I do not think LeBron James is a fraud. LeBron James is a transcendental basketball talent who, despite being a bit overrated, has done a great service to the NBA especially following Michael Jordan's third retirement. I actually think his critics are bit too hard on him.


As for this "super team", we've seen this before. The rockets had Olajuwan, Pippen, and Barkly. The Lakers had Shaq, Malone, Payton, and Kobe. No titles for either of them.
A good system is just as potent as star power. That's the reason I like the Golden State Warriors: star power + championship system.

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@Double_R
yeah it's a joke. I know he's good
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@Athias
Curry has two of the highest fourth-quarter scores in the history of the NBA Finals.
That doesn’t make him clutch. Especially since not all 4th quarter situations are created equal, in some instances it’s garbage time. Since you want to link me to stats how about I return the favor https://mobile.twitter.com/bball_ref/status/1139377970156429317

So don’t bring up any of his finals to me. You mentioned earlier that he should’ve gotten FMVP over Iggy that’s a subject for another day so I won’t argue it but his 1st ring was against a team that had nobody but LeBron on it. His 2nd trip to the finals he played awful in game 7 and had his team won Draymond would’ve gotten FMVP over him but this is about crunch time not the whole game right? So here you go https://youtu.be/wgVOgGLtPtc

His 3rd he and his whole squad flew to the Hamptons to recruit KD (because the 2nd greatest player of all time humbled the former unanimous MVP and took his heart out his chest) where he rode shotgun to form what some may call the greatest team of all time. Did he have something to do with that? Sure, but the whole league was lopsided once KD joined them where it isn’t even fair to bring up anything good he did or accomplished. His 4th was like a similar situation to his 1st except worse because KD was there. His 5th he could’ve showed the world something by making a clutch game winning shot but he bricked it as usual but hey he’s the greatest shooter of all time so I guess we can’t say anything critical about him right? Like I said he still has a chance to prove the naysayers wrong but until I see him hit a clutch shot like Ray Allen did in game 6 of the 2013 Finals, he will always be a big choker in my eyes.

But I suspect politics and agendas were behind his snubs.
The same politics and agendas that made him the 1st unanimous MVP in NBA history? Even before the 9 NBA greats (from your list not mine) greater than him?

I state this because the Lakers had such a precipitous drop off after that bubble championship
That precipitous drop off was largely due to injuries to two of the Lakers key players, do me a favor and name a team that sustained the same amount of playoff success without a healthy roster resembling the lakers situation in 2021.

LeBron James has fewer championships than Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabar, and the narrative still suggests that he's the "second greatest player of all time."
True but there are some guys that put those guys ahead of LeBron for that reason as well.

7. LeBron James
In case you didn’t know Shaq has played on more teams than anybody else in your top 10? On the top of your head could you even guess how many? Could you guess how many times he’s been SWEPT? He’s leading in that category as well as far as your top 10 list is concerned.

There's always bias, but that's okay, because we're discussing sports.
I resent that, I think my analysis is pretty objective, but you might’ve been speaking for yourself because this notion that Steph is clutch is just a bad take.
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@Tarik
That doesn’t make him clutch. Especially since not all 4th quarter situations are created equal, in some instances it’s garbage time. Since you want to link me to stats how about I return the favor https://mobile.twitter.com/bball_ref/status/1139377970156429317
So, in your opinion, ONLY the last shot-clock regulation period in a game's entire regulation is "clutch"? Nothing before that is "clutch"?

So don’t bring up any of his finals to me.
Why not?

You mentioned earlier that he should’ve gotten FMVP over Iggy that’s a subject for another day
We could this discuss that subject today. Steph Curry should have won the 2015 Finals MVP over Andre Iguodala. Even Andre Iguodala concedes to that point.

his 1st ring was against a team that had nobody but LeBron on it.
By then LeBron James had already made five finals appearances and won two championships. Why would this "tip the scales" if he played against a team with a player who by then had only two all-star appearances, no Finals appearances, his first MVP, and just one other all-star cohort? Remember that Kevin Love-less Cavaliers team swept the Boston Celtics in the first round, and made it to the Finals. They were still losing Game 1 of the 2015 Finals before Kyrie exited with knee injury.

His 2nd trip to the finals he played awful in game 7
He did.

And had his team won Draymond would’ve gotten FMVP over him
As poorly as Steph Curry played, he still played better than Draymond Green.

What it does it tell you that in light of a series of catastrophic events that occurred with precision that LeBron James and the Cavaliers won that 2016 Finals in Game 7, by only two possessions? Nevertheless, they did win.

His 3rd he and his whole squad flew to the Hamptons to recruit KD
"Here's the thing that's interesting about Golden State -- their players have been recruiting Kevin Durant all year. And it goes back to early in the season when the Thunder were struggling."

(because the 2nd greatest player of all time humbled the former unanimous MVP and took his heart out his chest)
Okay, Kellerman Bayless.

where he rode shotgun to form what some may call the greatest team of all time.
They weren't. But certainly, they were up there.

His 4th was like a similar situation to his 1st except worse because KD was there.
Why did KD's being there make it worse?

His 5th he could’ve showed the world something by making a clutch game winning shot but he bricked it as usual
You mean when he was blitzed and chased after Klay went down?

but hey he’s the greatest shooter of all time so I guess we can’t say anything critical about him right?
You can criticize him all you want. If however you want to convince me of your criticism's merit, you're going to have to do more than just repeat narrative.

Like I said he still has a chance to prove the naysayers wrong
He doesn't have to prove naysayers wrong; naysayers have to prove their arguments correct.

but until I see him hit a clutch shot like Ray Allen did in game 6 of the 2013 Finals, he will always be a big choker in my eyes.
To each his own.

The same politics and agendas that made him the 1st unanimous MVP in NBA history?
Actually no. That was one of, if not the most impressive single season MVP cases ever. If Shaquille won in 2000 or LeBron won it in 2013, I'm sure no one would've batted an eye, but it doesn't make Curry's 2016 MVP case any less deserving.

That precipitous drop off was largely due to injuries to two of the Lakers key players, do me a favor and name a team that sustained the same amount of playoff success without a healthy roster resembling the lakers situation in 2021.
Lakers recruit an injury prone Star, and constructed the oldest team in NBA. Injuries were inevitable. But the fact that they weren't able to replicate their championship success, much less their aspirations since, has called into question, at least for me, the merit of that 2020 championship, which by the way was on against an injured Miami Heat team.

True but there are some guys that put those guys ahead of LeBron for that reason as well.
None with a more influential platform than the sycophants in mainstream Sports media.

In case you didn’t know Shaq has played on more teams than anybody else in your top 10?
I did know.

On the top of your head could you even guess how many?
I don't have to guess. I know. He's played on six teams: Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat, Phoenix Suns, Cleveland Cavaliers, and the Boston Celtics. (And I didn't even have to look that up.) I've been watching the NBA since the 80's, and I even remember when Shaquille O'Neal was drafted in '92.

Could you guess how many times he’s been SWEPT?
Again, I don't have to guess. I watched the first finals he got swept. That was the '95 Finals against the Houston Rockets where Hakeem owned him. He got swept by the Chicago Bulls in both '96 and '98. He would then get swept by the Utah Jazz and San Antonio Spurs the years he first joined the Lakers. He got swept by the Chicago Bulls again in 2007. So?

I resent that, I think my analysis is pretty objective
Far from it, and beside "Objectivity" is irrational. But that's okay. Sports illicit strong emotions. I don't expect anyone to be impartial--that's the better term--not even myself.

because this notion that Steph is clutch is just a bad take.
The notion that he isn't is the bad joke.
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@Athias
I actually think his critics are bit too hard on him. 
How is that when YOUR THE ONE that called him overrated? Your a critic too as far as I can tell.

I don't think the machine behind LeBron James will allow the narrative to focus on Steph's possibly eclipsing LeBron James in total championships
The only reason I made that argument is because you posed the question 

How does this affect LeBron James?
Which I thought came somewhat out of left field, you mention the machine behind him but it shouldn’t affect him anymore then it should affect any other player that’s not in the finals. With that being said I think it would’ve made more sense if you asked that in regards to Jimmy Butler since he had the best chance of making the finals for players that’s not there.

So, in your opinion, ONLY the last shot-clock regulation period in a game's entire regulation is "clutch"? Nothing before that is "clutch"?
There’s other clutch situations like Bron’s block in game 7 of the 2016 finals, I just brought up the shots because that was the only stat I had handy at the time and he’s the GREATEST SHOOTER EVER so it seemed more than appropriate to ask for a clutch shot here and there, and the fact that he’s been in those situations 9 times and failed in each of them can’t be ignored.

They were still losing Game 1 of the 2015 Finals before Kyrie exited with knee injury.
That’s one game, do you really believe had Kyrie stayed healthy he and LeBron would allow that to continue throughout the remainder of the series? Hell no, Bron and Love without Kyrie probably would’ve been enough to get the job done.

As poorly as Steph Curry played, he still played better than Draymond Green.
Your forgetting how great Draymond was in that game 7


Look closely at Draymond’s numbers then Steph’s. You probably would’ve thought it was the other way around since Dray was never accused of being a scorer and Steph (the 1st unanimous MVP in NBA history) broke the record for most 3’s in a season, won the scoring title, and did all of that by joining the 50 40 90 club.

Okay, Kellerman Bayless.
Feel free to explain that one for me.

Why did KD's being there make it worse?
Because the finals odds were even more lopsided, the Cavs literally had no shot.

You mean when he was blitzed and chased after Klay went down?
🥱 Excuses, excuses, fact of the matter is we’ve seen countless times Steph take and make shots way tougher than that only difference is he made them when it didn’t really count for much and he never made one in a close out game situation with the game on the line.

it doesn't make Curry's 2016 MVP case any less deserving.
I didn’t say it did, remember when I brought up all his impressive stats earlier? That’s because I recognize talent when I see it. I have absolutely no issue with Curry when it comes to the regular season, it’s the postseason where there’s a massive drop off. My argument is that you can’t accuse the media of having an agenda against Curry when they granted him an honor that nobody in NBA history achieved.

Lakers recruit an injury prone Star, and constructed the oldest team in NBA.
That was this season not last season, they still managed to take a 2-1 lead to the Western Conference Champions with a banged up AD (eventually completely injured).

So?
Why do you rank him ahead of Bron?

Far from it, and beside "Objectivity" is irrational.
Care to explain that one as well?

The notion that he isn't is the bad joke.
I hope he enjoys that Magic Johnson award because it very well may be the only postseason individual accolade he’ll achieve, you say

politics and agendas were behind his snubs.
But it seems like they made that award tailor made for him.
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@Tarik
How is that when YOUR THE ONE that called him overrated? Your a critic too as far as I can tell.
I can be a critic particularly as it concerns his "all-time" status, and his performances, but that doesn't mean that all the criticism levied his way have merit. For example, some--well one--criticizes his performance as a clutch player. I actually think that LeBron James is quite the clutch player (and I'm not talking about Klutch Sports) especially in the playoffs. I think he has quite a high "basketball I.Q," for someone who came in the NBA just out of high school. My main criticism of LeBron James has always been his unwillingness to be deferential in order for his teammates to get into rhythm--though he did prove me wrong with his willingness to take a proverbial "back seat" in the beginning of the 2020-2021 season.

The only reason I made that argument is because you posed the question
I did pose the question. And I responded to your response.

Which I thought came somewhat out of left field,

Exactly. That was the point. It's a snipe at the Sports Media's preoccupation with LeBron James even when he's not in the playoffs. Some of it is to be expected, but most of it is just overkill.

you mention the machine behind him but it shouldn’t affect him anymore then it should affect any other player that’s not in the finals.
Except, it's "LeBrawn Jae-imes."

There’s other clutch situations like Bron’s block in game 7 of the 2016 finals
That was clutch, yes.

I just brought up the shots because that was the only stat I had handy at the time
I'm sure it was.

and he’s the GREATEST SHOOTER EVER
Yes, he's the greatest pure shooter.

so it seemed more than appropriate to ask for a clutch shot here and there,
He's had clutch shots here and there, in the regular season, the playoffs, and yes, the Finals.

and the fact that he’s been in those situations 9 times and failed in each of them can’t be ignored.
Yes, when one is ridiculously SELECTIVE like the final 24 seconds in regulation, you can make anyone appear to have "failed."

That’s one game, do you really believe had Kyrie stayed healthy he and LeBron would allow that to continue throughout the remainder of the series? Hell no, Bron and Love without Kyrie probably would’ve been enough to get the job done.
When the Warriors and Cavaliers ran it back the following year, the Warriors had a commanding 3-1 lead against a healthy Cavaliers roster. It took a series of precisely timed catastrophic events for that Cavaliers team to win in a Game 7 by just two possessions. So yeah, I do believe that even with Kyrie, and Kevin Love, the Warriors had just as a good a shot to win that series because as I said before, a good system is just as potent as star power.

Your forgetting how great Draymond was in that game 7




Look closely at Draymond’s numbers then Steph’s. You probably would’ve thought it was the other way around since Dray was never accused of being a scorer and Steph (the 1st unanimous MVP in NBA history) broke the record for most 3’s in a season, won the scoring title, and did all of that by joining the 50 40 90 club.
I didn't forget. I watched the game. But you're missing (or purposefully omitting) that Steph had a better series than Draymond Green. If you're going to isolate single game impact, then you're only making my point that Steph Curry probably should've won the 2018 Finals MVP since he was more impactful in more games than Kevin Durant. You can't have it both ways: either box score over a series matters more, or impact does.

Feel free to explain that one for me.
I suspect you already know what I'm talking about. But in case you don't, it's a reference to sports personalities Max Kellerman and Skip Bayless.

Because the finals odds were even more lopsided, the Cavs literally had no shot.
The Cavs had no shot? Why not? Was it because they had fewer "stars" or because they had an inferior system?

🥱 Excuses, excuses, fact of the matter is we’ve seen countless times Steph take and make shots way tougher than that only difference is he made them when it didn’t really count for much and he never made one in a close out game situation with the game on the line.
They're not excuses; they're facts. Both the Cavaliers coach, and Toronto Raptors Coach Tyronne Lue and Nick Nurse respectively have explicitly stated that their game plan was to blitz Steph Curry. And these weren't regular season lottery defenses; these were championship contending defenses.

That’s because I recognize talent when I see it. I have absolutely no issue with Curry when it comes to the regular season, it’s the postseason where there’s a massive drop off.
What "drop off"?

My argument is that you can’t accuse the media of having an agenda against Curry when they granted him an honor that nobody in NBA history achieved.
They had no choice but to give it to him; that's how dominant his season was.

That was this season not last season, they still managed to take a 2-1 lead to the Western Conference Champions with a banged up AD (eventually completely injured).
Yes, when I talked about that "precipitous drop off after the bubble championship" I'm including this latest regular season as well.

Why do you rank him ahead of Bron?
Because Shaquille O'Neal was more impactful in his team's championship runs than LeBron is.

Care to explain that one as well?
Because there's no experience you'll have, or any perspective you maintain, where YOU ARE NOT THE SUBJECT. Objectivity is irrational because it presumes that one can experience in spite of one's own experience.

I hope he enjoys that Magic Johnson award because it very well may be the only postseason individual accolade he’ll achieve, you say
Doesn't look very convincing.

But it seems like they made that award tailor made for him.
Seem is not an argument; but that's okay, this is a Sports discussion after all.
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@Athias
What it does it tell you that in light of a series of catastrophic events that occurred with precision that LeBron James and the Cavaliers won that 2016 Finals in Game 7, by only two possessions
Dude really? Those two possessions the Warriors could’ve very well have won by if Steph made some of those threes he bricked.

I think he has quite a high "basketball I.Q
Yet you critique it by saying he should defer to lesser teammates 🤔.

My main criticism of LeBron James has always been his unwillingness to be deferential in order for his teammates to get into rhythm
You mean like he did when he first got to Miami? His passiveness is what cost him that championship (among other things).

He's had clutch shots here and there, in the regular season, the playoffs, and yes, the Finals.
You can easily nip this in the bud don’t stop sending me links now, I’ve yet to see it.

Yes, when one is ridiculously SELECTIVE like the final 24 seconds in regulation, you can make anyone appear to have "failed."

Yeah only some no name and the worst statistical three point shooter ever in Westbrick, that’s a large sample size.

When the Warriors and Cavaliers ran it back the following year, the Warriors had a commanding 3-1 lead against a healthy Cavaliers roster.
The Warriors were no where near as good the year before.

You can't have it both ways: either box score over a series matters more, or impact does.
The two coexist pretty often.

it's a reference to sports personalities Max Kellerman and Skip Bayless.
I get the Kellerman reference but Bayless? Really? He’s an even bigger LeBron hater than you and he would never accuse him of being the 2nd greatest player of all time.

The Cavs had no shot? Why not? Was it because they had fewer "stars" or because they had an inferior system?
Doesn’t have to be either or it could be both, but let’s be real anyone with sense knew the Cavs wasn’t going past 5 against the Warriors. That team was too loaded and Kyrie left making it one of the most lopsided finals ever.

Toronto Raptors Coach Tyronne Lue and Nick Nurse respectively have explicitly stated that their game plan was to blitz Steph Curry
Like I said I’ve seen him make tougher shots then that he had a good look he just folded because the moment was too big for him.

They had no choice but to give it to him; that's how dominant his season was.
But they had a choice when they denied him in the finals right?

Because Shaquille O'Neal was more impactful in his team's championship runs than LeBron is.
LeBron was the first FMVP to comeback from 3-1 against a 73-9 team (but wait there’s more) and lead all statistical categories. Not to mention his triple double in game 7. What impact did Shaq leave that resembles anything remotely close to that? Often times teams would hack a Shaq and Lakers would have to depend on Kobe to close for them. Shaq even said himself that once LeBron passes Kareem he would declare him as GOAT although I strongly disagree with him there.

Because there's no experience you'll have, or any perspective you maintain, where YOU ARE NOT THE SUBJECT.
So what are you saying facts are an illusion?
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@Tarik
Dude really? Those two possessions the Warriors could’ve very well have won by if Steph made some of those threes he bricked.
Exactly. So what does it say that it took, again, a series of precisely timed catastrophic events and bricks from the opposing team's leading player to win in a Game 7 by just two possessions?

Yet you critique it by saying he should defer to lesser teammates 🤔.
"Lesser" teammates, whom he had a hand in recruiting. And again, I'm critical of his not deferring to them in order to get them in rhythm, not that he doesn't defer to them, "entirely."

You mean like he did when he first got to Miami? His passiveness is what cost him that championship (among other things).
No. He was too deferential, and didn't have much of an impact when he was on the floor. I'm talking about 2012-2013 LeBron, when he was not afraid to let his teammates get involved in the offense while also seeking to be dominant--which he was.

You can easily nip this in the bud don’t stop sending me links now, I’ve yet to see it.
Steph Curry with about "27.6" seconds left in regulation in the first game of the 2018 Finals, drives to the rim making a layup while also drawing a foul on Kevin Love. As I recall, the Warriors were down by two points in a game where LeBron was completely dominant. You could argue that Just Retarded Smith's antics were what cost Game 1, but a clutch shot is a clutch shot, right?

Steph Curry with about "11.6" seconds left in regulation in Game 2 of the 2015 Finals drives to the rim making a layup which ties the game and forces overtime.

Steph Curry with about "1:34" in Game 6 of the 2019 Western Conference Semi-Finals against the Houston Rockets, crosses up P.J. their best perimeter defender, and creates a five point lead for the Warriors. By the way, Steph Curry scored 23 points in that fourth quarter (after having 0 points in the first half) which is a playoff record.

Steph Curry has a series of clutch three pointers in Game 3 of the 2015 NBA Finals. Even though it was losing effort, Steph Curry hit "clutch 3" after three, giving the Warriors their best chance at winning that game. This by the way is when he set the record for highest 4th quarter point total by single player in the NBA Finals.

Steph Curry with about "9.6" seconds in Game 3 of the 2015 Playoffs First Round against the Pelicans hits a clutch three to force overtime.


And there are a lot more. You can learn a lot when you watch players play, and not just repeat narratives.

Again, incredibly SELECTIVE time frame.

The Warriors were no where near as good the year before.
Going from 67-15 to 73-9 would suggest that they were "nearly as good" the year before.

The two coexist pretty often.
They can. So, why was Steph Curry snubbed for Finals MVP considerations in the 2015 Finals? Didn't he have the highest box score amongst the Warriors? Wasn't he the most impactful, especially in Game 5, where the Warriors created separation after being tied with the Cavaliers at 2-2? Why didn't a single one of the 11 voters cast a vote for Steph Curry in the 2015 Finals even though he was the team's leading scorer? Iguodala's defense? That apparently was not enough to convince 4 of the 11 voters to cast their votes for LeBron James.

I get the Kellerman reference but Bayless?
So you did know who I was talking about. I called you Kellerman Bayless to describe your arguments as somewhat of a hodgepodge of both of their typical takes in reference to Steph Curry.

He’s an even bigger LeBron hater than you
I don't "hate" LeBron. I don't know LeBron James personally or intimately, so why would I "hate" him? As a basketball player, LeBron James is actually one of my favorite players to watch, the others being Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard, and Kyrie Irving.

and he would never accuse him of being the 2nd greatest player of all time.
Because he isn't. Kareem Abdul Jabar is a SIX-TIME NBA CHAMPION, TWO-TIME FINALS MVP, SIX-TIME REGULAR SEASON MVP, 19-TIME ALL STAR, TWO-TIME SCORING LEADER, FOUR-TIME BLOCKS LEADER, ONE-TIME REBOUNDING LEADER, A THREE-TIME COLLEGE CHAMPION, AND IS THE ALL-TIME LEADING SCORER! Kareem has a case for being the best player ever! And if someone argued to me that Kareem was the best player, and some individuals I know personally have done just that, I wouldn't invest in a counterargument. I watched Kareem play in the latter end of his career, and LeBron has a lot to do to eclipse Kareem, much less Bill Russell, Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, and Shaquille O'Neal.

Doesn’t have to be either or it could be both, but let’s be real anyone with sense knew the Cavs wasn’t going past 5 against the Warriors.
Yeah, because the Cavaliers had an inferior system, not because they were short a couple of stars. Does it not strike your curiosity just a little how many of those Cavs players went on to do well on other teams, e.g. Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, George Hill, etc?

Like I said I’ve seen him make tougher shots
Yeah, he's made tougher shots, and I've seen him miss easy shots; it's make or miss.

he just folded because the moment was too big for him.
Okay, Kellerman Bayless.

But they had a choice when they denied him in the finals right?
Obviously they did. Doesn't make it the right choice.

LeBron was the first FMVP to comeback from 3-1 against a 73-9 team (but wait there’s more) and lead all statistical categories. Not to mention his triple double in game 7. What impact did Shaq leave that resembles anything remotely close to that?
Shaquille was absolutely dominant in three straight Finals. And the reason they embarrassingly lost the fourth Finals in 2004 was that, and the late Kobe Bryant even admitted this, is that he didn't want to rely on  and pass to Shaquille O'Neal. I don't blame Shaq for the 2004 Finals. Note, there's a reason Kobe Bryant isn't on my top 10 despite his winning five championships.

So what are you saying facts are an illusion?
How have you reached this conclusion from what I've stated?

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So what does it say that it took, again, a series of precisely timed catastrophic events and bricks from the opposing team's leading player to win in a Game 7 by just two possessions? 
That Curry choked especially since that Game 7 was in Oracle, if it were the Q it probably would’ve been by more than two possessions.

And again, I'm critical of his not deferring to them in order to get them in rhythm, not that he doesn't defer to them, "entirely."
Honestly, it feels like we’re talking about two different players. LeBron is always looking to pass before scoring (this season being a drastic exception) so much so that he often gets criticized for that. I’ve seen countless times he had an opportunity for an easy bucket and he gives it up. He even said it himself that nothing fills him up more than someone else scoring off his pass.

I'm talking about 2012-2013 LeBron, when he was not afraid to let his teammates get involved in the offense while also seeking to be dominant--which he was.
So I guess he proved you wrong a lot earlier than the 2020-2021 season.

Going from 67-15 to 73-9 would suggest that they were "nearly as good" the year before.
You can’t just look at a teams regular season record (in that case that 73-9 was better than any Warriors team that added Durant) there was a reason Steph got unanimous MVP that year and not the year before because that was the beginning of his peak, also I think that chip he won gave him and his team confidence that probably wouldn’t have happened had a healthy Cavs team rip there hearts out the year prior.

So, in your opinion, ONLY the last shot-clock regulation period in a game's entire regulation is "clutch"? Nothing before that is "clutch"?
What if I said yes?

That apparently was not enough to convince 4 of the 11 voters to cast their votes for LeBron James.
Well if we’re ignoring who’s on the winning team would you agree that LeBron deserved FMVP over Curry?

So you did know who I was talking about. I called you Kellerman Bayless to describe your arguments as somewhat of a hodgepodge of both of their typical takes in reference to Steph Curry.
I did but I didn’t understand the correlation between the two and me, I also don’t recall either one of them saying those exact words but whatever you say man.

Does it not strike your curiosity just a little how many of those Cavs players went on to do well on other teams, e.g. Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, George Hill, etc?
You and I have very different standards of well, because none of them done well enough to make any all-star teams and none of them are going to the hall of fame.

Shaquille was absolutely dominant in three straight Finals. And the reason they embarrassingly lost the fourth Finals in 2004 was that, and the late Kobe Bryant even admitted this, is that he didn't want to rely on  and pass to Shaquille O'Neal. I don't blame Shaq for the 2004 Finals. Note, there's a reason Kobe Bryant isn't on my top 10 despite his winning five championships.
🤦🏾‍♂️ this Kobe disrespect is getting ridiculous, nonetheless is he at least in your top 15? Because if he is then I ask if you take other factors into account when you assess dominance and although Shaq dominated (most dominant force since Wilt Chamberlain) he did it with a top 15 player by his side (which LeBron never had) and against way inferior competition in the finals (especially Iverson’s 76ers).
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That Curry choked especially since that Game 7 was in Oracle, if it were the Q it probably would’ve been by more than two possessions.
Okay, so what does it indicate when a series of precisely timed catastrophic events occur to the opposing team, and simultaneously have their leading scorer "choke" in a Game 7, that it took LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers seven games to win by just two possessions?

Honestly, it feels like we’re talking about two different players. LeBron is always looking to pass before scoring (this season being a drastic exception) so much so that he often gets criticized for that. I’ve seen countless times he had an opportunity for an easy bucket and he gives it up. He even said it himself that nothing fills him up more than someone else scoring off his pass.
No one mentioned his passing ability. Deferring, does not necessarily equate to assists.

So I guess he proved you wrong a lot earlier than the 2020-2021 season.
I never said it was the one and only time.

You can’t just look at a teams regular season record (in that case that 73-9 was better than any Warriors team that added Durant) there was a reason Steph got unanimous MVP that year and not the year before because that was the beginning of his peak, also I think that chip he won gave him and his team confidence that probably wouldn’t have happened had a healthy Cavs team rip there hearts out the year prior.
And this is an example of the reason your statements aren't "objective." Employing abstracts in your arguments like "confidence," which I'm sure bears value in Sports discussions which I've said don't have to necessarily be quantifiable. I could just as easily argue that Steph Curry wanted to respond to those who doubted his previous MVP case--particularly those who thought James Harden should've won it.

What if I said yes?
Don't beat around the bush. Are you saying yes?

Well if we’re ignoring who’s on the winning team would you agree that LeBron deserved FMVP over Curry?
Winning cannot be ignored. And no, while LeBron did have the higher box score, his efficiency was down. And it defeats the purpose of awarding the player most valuable to their team's success. You can't have that without success (Jerry West being the one and only aberration.)

I did but I didn’t understand the correlation between the two and me, I also don’t recall either one of them saying those exact words but whatever you say man.
I'm not accusing you of using their exact words, only employing an identical tact in your criticisms.

You and I have very different standards of well, because none of them done well enough to make any all-star teams and none of them are going to the hall of fame.
Probably not, but LeBron was in fact responsible in large part for the construction of that roster, which was a tactic used to alleviate cap-space for the team he would eventually join. Nevertheless, they are NBA players and one of those players won 6th man of the year while playing for the Utah Jazz; one of those players played an instrumental part in forcing the Phoenix Suns six games in the 1st Round. One of those role players went to the conference Finals in 2019. If anything, this latest Lakers Season should demonstrate to you that stacking stars =/= success.

🤦🏾‍♂️ this Kobe disrespect is getting ridiculous
How have I disrespected the late Kobe Bryant?

nonetheless is he at least in your top 15?
Yes.

Because if he is then I ask if you take other factors into account when you assess dominance and although Shaq dominated (most dominant force since Wilt Chamberlain) he did it with a top 15 player by his side
What factors? Wilt Chamberlain put up high box scores, but he was bested by Bill Russell. Why? Because Russell was better basketball player despite Chamberlain having more talent and athleticism. Are you going to attribute this to Russell's having Cousey and Havlicek? Shaq took advantage of Phil Jackson's system. When a great system is implemented, any player can excel.

(which LeBron never had)
Sorry, I don't indulge LeBron James apologism.

and against way inferior competition in the finals (especially Iverson’s 76ers).
One can only play against those in the Finals who make the Finals. Wilt Chamberlain frequently lost to Bill Russell's all-time great Celtics teams, and Kareem's Bucks Teams. This no more mitigates Wilt's all-time status than it would LeBron's.
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Okay, so what does it indicate when a series of precisely timed catastrophic events occur to the opposing team, and simultaneously have their leading scorer "choke" in a Game 7, that it took LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers seven games to win by just two possessions?
Seriously dude quit implementing every answer I give into your next question, if you have something to say then say it.

No one mentioned his passing ability. Deferring, does not necessarily equate to assists.
So help me out here, can you give me an example of him not being deferential and it having a negative impact on teammates? Because one thing I know is LeBron is more than willing to play off-ball he’s just not that good at it (if I’m being honest) that’s why systems usually crumble once he leaves because he is the system, you can’t just plug him into one.

And this is an example of the reason your statements aren't "objective." Employing abstracts in your arguments like "confidence," which I'm sure bears value in Sports discussions which I've said don't have to necessarily be quantifiable.
Remember when you said

Seem is not an argument;
Well neither was that, however what I said prior to what I felt was if you don’t want to argue the abstract fine but the numbers speak for themselves.

Don't beat around the bush. Are you saying yes?
Fine, yes.

Winning cannot be ignored.
Yet YOUR THE ONE that brought up the 4 of the 11 voters to cast their votes for LeBron James.

And no, while LeBron did have the higher box score, his efficiency was down.
I think Iggy’s defense had a little something to do with that, especially in game 4.

And it defeats the purpose of awarding the player most valuable to their team's success.
There’s some success in putting your team in a position where they take a 2-1 lead, and why can’t it mean awarding the best player on the floor? Is there no value in that?

Probably not, but LeBron was in fact responsible in large part for the construction of that roster, which was a tactic used to alleviate cap-space for the team he would eventually join.
I’m sorry but are we talking about LeBron the player or GM?

Nevertheless, they are NBA players and one of those players won 6th man of the year while playing for the Utah Jazz; one of those players played an instrumental part in forcing the Phoenix Suns six games in the 1st Round. One of those role players went to the conference Finals in 2019. If anything, this latest Lakers Season should demonstrate to you that stacking stars =/= success.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand this point, originally you said

Yeah, because the Cavaliers had an inferior system, not because they were short a couple of stars. Does it not strike your curiosity just a little how many of those Cavs players went on to do well on other teams, e.g. Jordan Clarkson, Rodney Hood, George Hill, etc?
Based off you assessment of them “doing well” I took it to mean you thought they were stars and just wasn’t utilized properly in the Cavs system, my retort to that was my case as to why that’s far from the case and you seemed to agree with the “Probably not”. 

How have I disrespected the late Kobe Bryant?
By emphasizing that he’s not a top 10 player, that was one of the first things I noticed when you gave me your list and I let it go because I had other things I wanted to address but now since you mention it again YES it’s disrespect.

Sorry, I don't indulge LeBron James apologism.
That’s funny since I’ve been called a LeBron hater in regards to the GOAT debate, but in all seriousness if your arguing that LeBron played with a top 15 player then who? (BTW I don’t count your top 6 player Shaquille O’Neal because he was way past his prime when LeBron had him as a teammate).

One can only play against those in the Finals who make the Finals. Wilt Chamberlain frequently lost to Bill Russell's all-time great Celtics teams, and Kareem's Bucks Teams. This no more mitigates Wilt's all-time status than it would LeBron's.
I’m not saying your competition in the Finals mitigates your status, but I think your doing more deserving players a disservice by only judging Shaq on the championships in which he was dominant, but what about when he wasn’t as dominant? I mean you said it yourself Hakeem owned Shaq (a guy you have ranked lower than LeBron BTW).

Objectivity is irrational because it presumes that one can experience in spite of one's own experience.
No, it presumes one can be honest without letting personal biases get in the way, I think the fact that I said I would love to see Steph prove me wrong proves that.
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Seriously dude quit implementing every answer I give into your next question, if you have something to say then say it.
It's not as significant coming from me because I already understand the reasoning. I've already extended the conclusions. My intention is to present rationales and reasoning, and determine what conclusions you extend. So once more: what does it indicate when a series of precisely timed catastrophic events occur to the opposing team, and simultaneously have their leading scorer "choke" in a Game 7, that it took LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers seven games to win by just two possessions?

So help me out here, can you give me an example of him not being deferential and it having a negative impact on teammates?
The latter half of this last regular season when he prioritized the scoring title.

Because one thing I know is LeBron is more than willing to play off-ball
He has demonstrated no such willingness, at least since he left Miami.

Remember when you said

Seem is not an argument;
Well neither was that, however what I said prior to what I felt was if you don’t want to argue the abstract fine but the numbers speak for themselves.
And remember when I stated this:

Seem is not an argument; but that's okay, this is a Sports discussion after all.
We can argue abstracts. I'm indicating to you that I can reciprocate with abstracts because I'm not indulging the pretense of being "objective."

Fine, yes.
Then by that measure, LeBron is more "clutch" than Kobe Bryant despite the narratives. And I've presented you with at least three occasions where Steph Curry's performance meets your criterion.

Yet YOUR THE ONE that brought up the 4 of the 11 voters to cast their votes for LeBron James.
Yes, to highlight that not one single member of the 11 voters voted for Steph Curry in the 2015 Finals despite his being the team's leading scorer, putting up 26, 6, and 5. Thus, my suspicions about agendas and politics in the voting having a role in the decision are informed. If you're going to state that somehow Iguodala was more impactful despite the box score--at least defensively--then I simply refer you back to 2018 where despite the box score, Curry was more impactful than Durant (Not that Durant wasn't impactful.) The inconsistency in criteria where narrative takes priority over impact on team's success is what I criticize. But there's a consistency between Iguodala, LeBron, and Durant, that has nothing to do with basketball performance.

I think Iggy’s defense had a little something to do with that, especially in game 4.
You can't have it both ways: you can't reward the one who shuts down, while simultaneously attempting to reward the one who was shut down. That's what made the 2015 FMVP vote ridiculous.

There’s some success in putting your team in a position where they take a 2-1 lead,
Maintain that argument with Steph Curry's 2016 Finals performance. As I recall, he didn't receive any Finals MVP votes then either. (And he shouldn't have.)

and why can’t it mean awarding the best player on the floor? Is there no value in that?
Only if one is trying to circumvent that process of actually winning in an attempt to gerrymander in success.

I’m sorry but are we talking about LeBron the player or GM?
Doesn't matter. If he has a role in selecting his teammates--and he has--then don't seek to mitigate his playoff failures by attempting to diminish his teammates.

Based off you assessment of them “doing well” I took it to mean you thought they were stars
I never stated that. You can do well without being an "all-star" which is a rather rare selection--which is primarily determined by popularity--given that you have only 24 of them out of 450 players (5%) every season. If we were to indulge the insinuation that non all-star = not playing well, then in any given season, 95% of the league does not play well. That's a rather ridiculous proposition.

and just wasn’t utilized properly in the Cavs system
Exactly.

my retort to that was my case as to why that’s far from the case and you seemed to agree with the “Probably not”. 
"Probably not" was a response to the suggestion that the players I mentioned would be hall of famers. Again, Hall of Fame Induction is a rather rare occurrence. I think there's a little more than 400 inductees out of over 4,300 players who've played in the NBA. If non hall of fame = not playing well, then the insinuation is that 91% of all players ever have not played well. That, too, would be a ridiculous proposition.

By emphasizing that he’s not a top 10 player, that was one of the first things I noticed when you gave me your list and I let it go because I had other things I wanted to address but now since you mention it again YES it’s disrespect.
Why is it disrespectful to keep Kobe out of my top 10 list? Why does he deserve to be on the top 10? I mean considering that he's in my top 15, it would mean that he's among 0.3% of players I consider the greatest of all time.

That’s funny since I’ve been called a LeBron hater in regards to the GOAT debate, but in all seriousness if your arguing that LeBron played with a top 15 player then who?
I never said LeBron played with a "top 15" player. I'm not arguing that it mitigates anything, nor would I hold it against a player that they did play with a top 15 player.

I’m not saying your competition in the Finals mitigates your status, but I think your doing more deserving players a disservice
You mean LeBron? How is he "more deserving"?

by only judging Shaq on the championships in which he was dominant, but what about when he wasn’t as dominant?
Shaq was drafted in '92 and made his first Finals Appearance in 1996, where he, Penny, and the Orlando Magic would get swept by the Houston Rockets; LeBron James was drafted in '03 and made his first Finals Appearance in 2007, where he, Larry Hughes, and the Cleveland Cavaliers, would get swept by the San Antonio Spurs. Shaq would be part of a three-peat, where he was absolutely dominant, and goes on afterward to win his fourth championship with Dwayne Wade in Miami. LeBron would have staggered Finals Appearances after Cleveland, playing poorly in 2011, playing great in 2012-2013, and playing sub-par in 2014. He wouldn't play great again until 2016, and played well in 2017, and flamed out (not in terms of box score) after game 1 of the 2018 Finals. While true that Shaq has been part of playoff embarrassments, so has LeBron; so has many great players and teams--e.g. '91 Lakers, '95 Bulls, etc.

I mean you said it yourself Hakeem owned Shaq (a guy you have ranked lower than LeBron BTW).
It's my opinion that Hakeem would've owned the Bulls, had Jordan not retired, given that Hakeem and the Rockets dominated them in their regular season matchups. Even Jordan himself claimed that they, the Chicago Bulls, had no answer for Hakeem. That's the reason Jordan claims to respect him so much. But there's more that goes into all time list than individual matchups. You can't sneak some discount "transitive property" proposing that because I have LeBron ranked than Hakeem, and Hakeem dominated Shaq in their individual matchup, LeBron must therefore be ranked higher than Shaq.

No, it presumes one can be honest
"Honest" is subject to your perspective.

without letting personal biases get in the way
Not possible.

I think the fact that I said I would love to see Steph prove me wrong proves that.
That wasn't even remotely "unbiased."
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Because Russell was better basketball player despite Chamberlain having more talent and athleticism.
Not sure how a less talented player is better but (just like Curry) Wilt wasn’t clutch.

Are you going to attribute this to Russell's having Cousey and Havlicek?
Those guys did play a role yes.

what does it indicate when a series of precisely timed catastrophic events occur to the opposing team, and simultaneously have their leading scorer "choke" in a Game 7, that it took LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers seven games to win by just two possessions?
It means that in spite of Steph and Klay playing poorly Draymond was still dominant enough to keep the game within just two possessions.

The latter half of this last regular season when he prioritized the scoring title.
So who else was gonna score Russ? The difference between this year and last year is AD was hurt more than he usually is if AD was healthy I’m sure he would’ve taken that “proverbial back seat” like he did in the beginning of last season.

We can argue abstracts. I'm indicating to you that I can reciprocate with abstracts because I'm not indulging the pretense of being "objective."
But stats aren’t subjective there data and data is a collection of facts. Are you claiming that facts are subjective?

Then by that measure, LeBron is more "clutch" than Kobe Bryant despite the narratives. And I've presented you with at least three occasions where Steph Curry's performance meets your criterion.
I don’t give a damn about narratives, LeBron is more clutch than Kobe. I presented you with 9 occasions where Steph folded in the clutch (without mentioning the OT shot he missed against houston in game 4 of 2018 and his disappearance against Memphis in OT of the play-in game) and layups don’t compare to threes especially for the greatest shooter of all time.

Even Andre Iguodala concedes to that point.
He retracted that “Iguodala somewhat agreed with Ariza, saying "OK, you're right. That's mine." https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/andre-iguodala-addresses-steph-currys-nba-finals-mvp-case

You can't have it both ways: you can't reward the one who shuts down, while simultaneously attempting to reward the one who was shut down. That's what made the 2015 FMVP vote ridiculous.
I wasn’t, if FMVP went to best player on the court Bron would’ve snatched that, not Iggy and not Curry.

Maintain that argument with Steph Curry's 2016 Finals performance. As I recall, he didn't receive any Finals MVP votes then either. (And he shouldn't have.)
Not only because his team lost but because he wasn’t the best player on the court.

Only if one is trying to circumvent that process of actually winning in an attempt to gerrymander in success.
That makes no sense, we assess greatness by players attempt to WIN whether or not there successful is a separate issue.

Doesn't matter. If he has a role in selecting his teammates--and he has--then don't seek to mitigate his playoff failures by attempting to diminish his teammates.
But it does, just because he’s responsible for them being there doesn’t mean he’s responsible for there play, these are GROWN MEN they’re accountable for themselves.

I never stated that.
But you said a lack of stars is not why they lost and then went on to say how well they did to prove that point, excuse me if I put two and two together.

LeBron would have staggered Finals Appearances after Cleveland, playing poorly in 2011, playing great in 2012-2013, and playing sub-par in 2014. He wouldn't play great again until 2016, and played well in 2017, and flamed out (not in terms of box score) after game 1 of the 2018 Finals.
So what about 2011-2012? He literally had his best game that year. And why do you say he didn’t play great until 2016, because his team won the championship? In my opinion Bron was better the year prior then he was in 2016.

While true that Shaq has been part of playoff embarrassments, so has LeBron; so has many great players and teams--e.g. '91 Lakers, '95 Bulls, etc.
91 Lakers was old and 95 Bulls had a baseball not basketball MJ.
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I don’t give a damn about narratives, LeBron is more clutch than Kobe. I presented you with 9 occasions where Steph folded in the clutch (without mentioning the OT shot he missed against houston in game 4 of 2018 and his disappearance against Memphis in OT of the play-in game) and layups don’t compare to threes especially for the greatest shooter of all time.
Enjoy your night, sir. I'm not having this conversation anymore.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other news, the Boston Celtics win Game 1 of the 2022 NBA Finals.
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In other news, the Boston Celtics win Game 1 of the 2022 NBA Finals
Yes I know I’ve watched the game.

On a different note since you mentioned LeBron’s pursuit of the scoring title I’m curious to know your take on this, what do you think about him being once upon a time being in contention for that award despite missing a significant amount of games? Do you think it’s fair? Do you think the league should change its award system?
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Yes I know I’ve watched the game.
That wasn't meant for just you, it was more of a general statement to onlookers of this thread.

On a different note
No different notes shall be indulged. At this juncture, we'll just agree to disagree (or not.) Enjoy your day, sir.
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That wasn’t meant just for you
Didn’t say it was.

No different notes shall be indulged.
Except the Boston Celtics winning Game 1 that is.

we’ll just agree to disagree
On a debate site? Okay sir, have it your way ✌🏾 
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Feel free to discuss or mention any thoughts you have on the subject of these Finals, or any tangential basketball related topic. After all, that is what this thread is for. I'm just not going to push a discussion any further on measures with which we obviously disagree. So, enjoy your day, sir.
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@Athias
I'm just not going to push a discussion any further on measures with which we obviously disagree.
If disagreement turns you off so much maybe you shouldn’t engage in a DEBATE site, just saying.
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@Tarik
If disagreement turns you off so much maybe you shouldn’t engage in a DEBATE site, just saying.
Nah, I'm good. Thanks for the advice. Enjoy your day, sir.

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@Athias
Nah, I'm good
I thought so, I guess the dis word that’s more prevalent is dishonesty and not so much disagreement.
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I forgot to post this yesterday, the Golden State Warriors win Game 2 in the 2022 NBA Finals.