PLEASE BE AWARE: Obviously this entire debate will contain a ton of spoilers potentially as rebuttals get going. This round also has some gentle ones.
I'm going to keep the case simple and avoid psychology research and concepts of optimal sorting until Round 2 as I want to see what I'm up against in that it is Con upholding the status Quo so I want to see how Con justifies the very basis of the original policy in the first place.
In this debate, Con is not allowed to take a stance of a more complex sorted-by-3-system but if demanded to explain why I'd opt for 2 instead of 3, I'll explain why a 3/4 system per house is not only suboptimal but is simply a one-per system reversed.
In essence, and I am sure Con would agree, the correct interpretation of the houses isn't nearly as simple as the average fan thinks.
Gryffindor represents the willingness to do despite the logic against doing so.
Slytherin represents the capitalising of the willingness to do what is illogical.
Ravenclaw represents knowing the logic and gathering the data so as to know just how wise the decisions you make are.
Hufflepuff represents wilfully ignoring logic when it comes in line with what should be done.
In reality, in my eyes Gryffindor and Hufflepuff are actually very similar individuals morally, and very different individuals in temperament and ego. Slytherin and Ravenclaw are quite the same.
When you put a person into a house, you are missing out an extremely key element of the person in the four-house system.
A Gryffinpuff would be an individual who would sooner do the right thing than know a single 'true thing' at all in life whereas a true Slytherclaw would sooner know a 'true thing' than do the right thing (and may well believe there's no actual right option without irrational prioritising by which ot optimise one's judgement system etc).
Now, you may say 'but won't the naming itself be unfair' and it likely would for two reasons:
I hate to be sexist here, as this is a formal debate, but it's not sexist if it's only 2 women. I think the 2 women were ultimately the 2 more submissive personalities and had less domineering and thus more humble ethos by which their houses stood. Rowena Ravenclaw and Helga Hufflepuff would more willingly have agreed to a system which has only one house with 'Raven' at the start and 0 houses with Huffle:
This would likely be agreed on by the Founders not only because of the awkwardness of ending something in 'ryn' (and in my eyes Slytherin is actually the more dominant persona even though Gryffindor stands for courage) but because their personalities genuinely match that way.
What I mean by this is anyone who is a 'puff' variant is foremost the other house in the first place. This is a huge, unfair plot-hole in the entire book. There's not a single HufflePuff member, be it Cedric Diggory (who would be a Gryffinpuff) or Pomona Sprout (who would be a Ravenpuff) who properly 'fit their house'. It's basically the 'trash can' house where whoever doesn't seem too brave, street-smart or knowledge-seeking is going to end up being put. This is why it's actually unfair on the submissive personas and ethos to have the four-house system and why every single relevant character was either a Gryffindor or a Slytherin. This is literally directly due to the dominant nature and ethos they hold as people and thinkers.
If there has been a six-house system, not only would this have been a far fairer legacy, enabling the submissive nuances of the difference between a Claw and a Puff to be made clearer and truly accentuating the individuality of such-sorted individuals but it would blatantly have furthermore stopped the bastardising of Slytherin which occurred the entire book even when Snape's tragic story was revealed, HE STILL WAS CONSIDERED A 'BAD GUY'.
The issue with the entire book is that Hermione is clearly a Gryffinclaw and is more extremely claw than Gryffin but you can imagine why someone who values courage and is already entering the school on a social backfoot being muggle-born is going to beg the hat to put her into Gryffindor. Ron also would have been Gryffinclaw and his genius-level IQ was not remotely hinted at past the first book and only in the last book was his on-the-spot thinking regarded as astonishing given the things he did with the book-Horcrux and such.
To take this a little further we need to ask what the Houses were even designed for and the purpose of the concept in the wizarding world. You see, in the four-house system one could justify punishing all Slytherins for the sins of a few that year and making Gryffindor the jundeserving winners (as occured) the reason being that Slytherdors naturally do such cunning, brutal things (Voldemort is the epitome of a slytherdor). They do not care about the reasons unless the reasons help them to take the right risks. They are the type who are both adrenaline-seeking and adrenaline-punishing (think of a typical high-ranking Pirate, although arguably some high ranking Pirates would be slytherclaws instead such as Barbossa so let's not go too into that analogy). The point is, the way you tame and punish Slytherdors is indeed to make their whole house lose due to their innate sins due to their ethos and make them learn there's such a thing as too much risk and that others will play dirty as well to take your trophy (last-minute disqualifying etc). On the other hand, the two other types of half-Slytherins would be punished in a totally wrong way and in a way that makes them even more cynical and unhappy. A Slytherclaw isn't going to cheat the system, they're going to abuse every rule, bend every rule but never actually break it and would loathe their riskier, ignorant opponents for playing that irrationally in the competition for most points. A Slytherpuff isn't going to cheat because to them, cunning would be a means to an end (think benevolent secret agent-types, teacher's pets etc).
The nuances of the 2-house-per system are just the right amount to split people exactly into their outlook on life, magic and morality in general. This is therefore superior to the four-house system that my opponent must represent.
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>Reported Vote: TheGreatSeal // Mod action: Not Removed
>Points Awarded: 4 points to Con for arguments and conduct
>Reason for Decision: Neither pro or con went beyond the book much to find sources, but since this is a literary debate on Harry Potter, its perfectly understandable. Since Pro had one other source, Pro can make a really good argument for winning siurces, but its also the case that "most reliable sources" doesn't translate to the same quantity. Using New Criticism itself doesn't make a source unreliable, so I'll tie this one.
The forfeits really cursed Con to lose arguments. There is too much unrefuted by Pro, which really swings my vote here. Pro was also able to refute con unopposed. By volume, and frankly a lack of effort by Con, Pro wins arguments. The full forfeit also costs Con conduct.
>Reason for Mod Action: This debate is a full forfeit. FF debates are no moderated unless the voter voted for the conceding side. This did not occur, so this vote is not actionable.
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Ron is borderline RP not "CP" I was thinking 'claw'
Will correct in r5.
Hufflepuff represents wilfully ignoring logic when it comes in line with what should be done.
COMES IN CONFLICT NOT COMES IN LINE, I WILL CORRECT THIS IN ROUND 2
Ron was good at certain things but he wasn't an intellectual in general. being really good at one thing like chess or math doesn't make you an intellectual. Hermione seems like a Ravenclaw on the surface but the houses represent more what is at your core and having certain traits from other houses doesn't make you that house if it's not the core of your being. Hermione is a true Gryffindor because doing the "right" thing is far more important to her than intellectual persuits at the end of the day. In a similar way I superficially appear to be a Slytherin a lot of the time because life has made me cold, spiteful and aggressive but at heart I just want to understand everything and the Slyhterin traits are something I feel I'm being pushed into.
Hermione being in Gryffindor is hilariously erroneous. Ron is a Gryffynclaw and more claw than Gryffindor. He was a chess savant.
There is absolutely nothing about Andy or Bronto that is Gryffindor-like. Gryffindors are honorable and brave, being brash irrational and arrogant as a gryffindor is possible but not a necessary trait. Do you think Hermione is brash or irrational? Bronto is a lying, greedy dick head who is willing to violently distort and/or dismiss facts to defend his idiotic ideologies. In the four house system he is a Slytherin and with six houses he would be slytherpuff because of his foolish and cuck-like loyalty to the country that stole his ancestors' land and the religion he has been indoctrinated with. Andy has no Gryffindor traits either, I think he is probably more of a Hufflepuff or with 6 houses a Slytherpuff. being a Cuck or a pussy is a Hufflepuff thing since they are loyal people, Any of the houses can be "teachers pet" types but whereas a Raven would be liked for their smarts, Gryffindor would be liked for their character and a Slytherin would be manipulating the teacher, a Hufflepuff is the most likely to be one out of blind obedience and passivity. I imagine Andy as being the type of kid who would kiss every authority figures ass and gasp at the mere thought of naughty words. A Gryffindor can be a goody-two-shoes but at least they have balls and can be defiant, Andy is a hufflecuck type of guy.
Andy and Bronto are definitely gryffindors.
Gryffindor is worse than hufflepuff.
A hufflepuff member, with its variants (which is the issue I will address here) is an honest, hard-working, humble individual.
A gryffindor is a brash, irrational, arrogant individual.
Gryffindor and Slytherin share arrogance, ravenclaw and hufflepuff share humility but the variants are exactly why the four-house system makes no sense. You can get a humble but brave person, they are just the minority is all. They would be a gryffinpuff/huffledor.
PS, I was contemplating what house various CD members would be in a few months back. Me, Nom and Mathfan would be Ravenclaws. You and most of the other members would be Slytherin. Only a few Hufflepuffs like Mint_Tea and pretty much no one there is a gryffindor type.
I took a cross-sorting quiz just now and I got Slytherclaw, same as you. I have been a Harry Potter fan since age 6 and I always considered myself a mostly ravenclaw type with some slytherin and gryffindor traits and pretty much no hufflepuff traits.