Instigator / Con
4
1641
rating
63
debates
65.08%
won
Topic
#718

Is Christianity Disadvantageous To An Individual?

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Wrick-It-Ralph
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
7
1402
rating
44
debates
40.91%
won
Description

We will argue whether Christianity, based on the Bible, is disadvantageous to the person who believes. This is based on the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

Do make sure to tell Speedrace that source is not properly sourced and when finding the actual source it is a survey. Thank me later.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/bulletins/measuringnationalwellbeing/july2017tojune2018
I also have the idea that the data is fabricated. No mention of Religion so would like you to also mention that. Do make sure the readers know that Speedrace is incapable of sourcing properly. Remember people who are either Republican or Religious more than likely mis-represent data in order to lie about what it actually says. Again thank me later

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

More than likely he is the DDO profile of Our_Boat_is_Right. I wouldn't blame you if they think they are alike because the Republican party is the party of the establishment not facts feelings.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

have no idea wut ur talking about. Who is darthvader1?

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

Hmmmm. Maybe. But I doubt it.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

no im not wrong guy

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@K_Michael

No, because you're giving up your life. You don't think that' s a gamble, because you don't value you life on earth enough. I'm taking the safe bet by living a good and secular life and ANY god who is good and just WOULD NOT send me to hell for not believing without evidence. So MY BET is the best by a wide margin.

You subscribe to a God and ANY god who seen you in an evil religion would be FURIOUS at how you thought of him and since you have a ridiculously small chance of choosing the right heaven, you'll probably end up on that God's Troll list

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

"I'm just an atheist to one more than you."
So a larger gamble then? Just as I said.

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@Our_Boat_is_Right

You're darthvader1 correct?

lol wrick it ralph is getting destroyed so far

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@K_Michael

Well when most of the world is religious it necessarily follows that they will have more charity.

If you go per capita, then atheists organizations are least tied.

Phil Sessions Mans at least 4 atheist charities that I know of.

You're thinking of the gamble wrong. It's not "Atheism or Hell"
It's "Atheism, or Hell X, or Hell Y or Hell z or etc, or etc, or etc."

There's 10,000 plus religions in the world and I'm being quite modest with that number.

So how do you know you're saving yourself from the right hell?

You're an atheist to 9,999 religions.

I'm just an atheist to one more than you.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

"Your way doesn't help humanity,"
I disagree. In case you haven't looked at humanitarian aid in the last few decades, there's a large portion of Christian funding.

" it's a bold gamble on a man-made game."
Is it as bold as risking eternal damnation? According to my view, that's what you're doing. My gamble pales in comparison to yours. I am, just like you, " I can do what matters for me."

"Humans create meaning"
So meaning is an abstract. Like in your other debate (https://www.debateart.com/debates/657), merely "A tool we use to describe reality around us."
If meaning is just a mental construct, then it is no more real than you claim my conception of a God to be.

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@K_Michael

I was hoping it would so I wouldn't have to do it the hard way.

You're making the assumption that your life matters or that the universe gives a singular crap about any of us.

Look at the universe. Does it look like it cares about anything? No, it's just a bunch of things floating around.

Humans create meaning. That makes it a real human thing. Who cares if there's not god, at least now I know I have my life and I can do what matters for me. I happen to think that helping humanity does matter for me. Because I want The next genereations 60 or so years on earth to be equal or better quality than mine.

Your way doesn't help humanity, it's a bold gamble on a man made game. You could spend your life actually helping people but instead you look to the sky and wait for the "next step". Well what if there's no next step? That means everything you thought was good was a waste and you could have been finding your own meaning in life.

aaaand that's the long way.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

Please clarify.

Was that supposed to make sense?

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@K_Michael

What meaning can you even try to make of your life if you get to the end of what you thought was the beginning and it turns out it is the beginning of what you now know is the end?

Paul testified “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” Christianities man focus is after life according to the scriptures.

What point is life if it all ends when you die? Your "legacy" will likely die out with the human race, or you'll just be forgotten. There is no basis for trying to make a difference in other people's lives if it's all pointless in the long run.

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@K_Michael

Who told you that atheists think life is meaningless? You're confusing me with a nihilist.

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance, the only thing it cannot be is moderately important." - C.S. Lewis

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

"Christianity can waste you[r] life."
Seeing as atheists believe that life is just a meaningless stretch of time when specific molecules arrange themselves into a conglomeration that acts intelligently until inevitable decay destroys that organism, I can hardly view this seriously. If you're just going to die anyway, why does it matter if you limit yourself and fruitlessly spend a decade or so's worth of time? If I spend one in seven days entirely devoted to God, I waste a fraction of something meaningless, which is just as meaningless.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

Ohh, I see. I misunderstood what we disagreed on, fair enough.

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@killshot

well I never said that generalizing about Christians believing in the resurrection was fallacious. That's a reasonable statement. I simply disagreed about that necessarily making them delusional.

While it's true that some sects might not specifically hate gays, that doesn't exempt the rest of Christians who do and there are other immoral ideas that those same sects pick up. Even if Christians weren't picking up any tenants at all, the fact that they believe in god would ultimately be disadvantageous to them and the more they believe the more disadvantageous it is.

If someone follows Christianity, but doesn't believe a word of it would hardly apply to this argument because we're talking about it being disadvantageous and we can't cite advantage if it's having zero impact on their life at all.

It then logically follows that the cases to look at are those that take on at least some tenants.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

What about denominations who are pro LGBT? One example I can think of is Lutheranism (there are plenty others). They have sub denominations on both sides of LGBT. If you are a Christian who belongs to the pro LGBT side, you'd never "always run the risk" of condemning homosexuals, because it's not a stance taken by that version of Christianity.

Generalizing Christians as "anti homosexuals" seems very similar to me generalizing Christians into believing in Jesus's death, resurrection & ascension; mine I would argue is even more imperative since it's the basis of Christianity.

That being said, I totally agree with you regarding the homosexual stuff and compliment you on your arguments.

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@killshot

Well I'm not saying that all Christians believe that. I'm simply saying that if one becomes a Christian, they are likely to adopt the tenant.

Regardless of whether they do adopt that tenant, the fact that they're Christians means that they always run that risk so I consider disadvantageous on average because I cannot simply speak to individual cases in this topic. I have to address how it affects people on average.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

I absolutely agree with you and your points, but aren't you making the same generalization you ridiculed me for making in my previous debate?

You are essentially saying "all Christians condemn homosexually, etc", and this would be inclusive to all individuals who confess themselves as Christian.

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@Speedrace

Thanks!

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

Well thanks, I appreciate that! You and killshot are my favorite people to debate

The funny thing is this depends entirely on the situation the individuals find themselves in. If you are trying to pass bible studies class christianity is very advantageous, if you are trying to pass science class not so much. If you are in Europe during the middle ages you should at least pretend to be a christian in most cases, if you are in Iraq then christianity is a one way ticket to getting stoned or beheaded.

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@Speedrace

This should be a fun debate. Even though we disagree profusely on many things, you have a high level of logic compared to the average debater.

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@Speedrace

lol, I just refreshed at the right time I guess.

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@Wrick-It-Ralph

That was so fast lol

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@Speedrace

I'll argue for The New Covenant only. However, I think you and I both know that most Christians apply both to their lives.