How much do you value free speech?

Author: RemyBrown

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#1
RemyBrown
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Would you be willing to have some female you don't know in a different state than where you live get r@ped if that is what it took for you to keep your free speech?

I'd be willing to make that sacrifice; I don't like her getting r@ped, but to be honest, my free speech is more important to me than some faceless female stranger's bodily autonomy.  If you disagree, then that's understandable, but then don't call yourself someone who values free speech above all else (because tbh, you don't).  And I'm not a free speech absolutist, for example, I would rather never utter my opinion again than get murdered because I value my life more than my voice.  If America repealed the 1st amendment, then I wouldn't fight to bring it back because I don't want to die.  But am I willing to have other people fight and die for my free speech?  Yes, because my life is worth more to me than their lives.
#2
TheGreatSunGod
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@RemyBrown
Free speech is the main condition for a debate and flow of information. To make an informed choice, one must be aware of all possibilities and options, and have all knowledge. Banning free speech makes informed choice impossible, and then you dont really have a choice. Another problem is knowing what is true and what not - this is impossible without free flow of information.
#3
FLRW
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@Shila

  Shila ?
#4
Shila
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@FLRW
Shila ?
Check my profile for answers.
#5
fauxlaw
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@RemyBrown
This is a vile subject, period. To suggest that anyone may be willing to allow any such abuse for anything borders on offensive posting, even when posed as supposition and not actual factual condition. God in heaven, what fifth. Stop it.
#6
Swagnarok
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What kind of unhinged scenario is this? What does one thing have to do with the other?
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#7
RemyBrown
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@TheGreatSunGod
Banning free speech makes informed choice impossible
Would you be fine with a woman getting r@ped to protect your personal free speech?  Yes or no.
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#8
RemyBrown
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@fauxlaw
Alright; so you aren't a free speech absolutist then.  Come as advertised.
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#9
RemyBrown
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@Swagnarok
What does one thing have to do with the other?
What do you value more?  A woman not getting r@ped or your personal free speech?

Just like 2 kids getting killed has nothing to do with your kid getting killed, but you would prefer one group getting killed over the other.

What do you value more?  A woman not getting r@ped or your personal free speech?  For me, it's my free speech.  If that's not the case for you, then you aren't a free speech absolutist and you should come as advertised.
#10
TheGreatSunGod
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@RemyBrown
Would you be fine with a woman getting r@ped to protect your personal free speech?  Yes or no.
You mean, my speech would somehow result in a woman getting raped, or lack of my speech would prevent a woman from getting raped?

Or free speech generally resulting in women getting raped?

Or are we discussing a scenario where if I dont give up on free speech, a woman gets raped?
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#11
RemyBrown
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@TheGreatSunGod
Or are we discussing a scenario where if I dont give up on free speech, a woman gets raped?
This is the correct answer.

Your free speech or a stranger woman's bodily autonomy in the context of r@pe.  What takes precedence to you?
#12
TheGreatSunGod
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@RemyBrown
My free speech is very important to me. It would be kinda stupid to give up all free speech in a country to prevent one rape. It would be like sacrificing all freedom to save one life. When you give up on freedom and free speech, there is nothing left to even live for.
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#13
RemyBrown
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@TheGreatSunGod
My free speech is very important to me. It would be kinda stupid to give up all free speech in a country to prevent one rape.
We're not talking about all free speech for everyone vs preventing one r@pe.  We're talking about YOUR free speech (1 individual) vs one female not getting r@ped.
#14
TheGreatSunGod
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@RemyBrown
I would not give up on all my free speech or all my freedom just to prevent 1 rape. No one would do that. It is actually possible to prevent almost all rape and abuse by placing cameras and sound recording everywhere, even in all houses, run by AI, and having each person wear a locating device. But who would agree to lose so much freedom for some safety? No one.
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#15
RemyBrown
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@TheGreatSunGod
I would not give up on all my free speech or all my freedom just to prevent 1 rape.
Alright.  I respect the honesty and I agree with this statement.

But you can understand how this statement would turn off virtually every normie?
#16
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@RemyBrown
But you can understand how this statement would turn off virtually every normie?
Well, maybe average person doesnt care about free speech much unless its their own speech.
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#17
RemyBrown
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@TheGreatSunGod
Well, maybe average person doesnt care about free speech much unless its their own speech.
That is a good point.  People are extremely selfish whether they have the guts to own it or not.
#18
AdaptableRatman
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@fauxlaw
@RemyBrown
Agreed Fauxlaw.

RemyBrown, please consider what you are suggesting here. You are supporting sex slave abuse for no just cause at all.
#19
AdaptableRatman
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I am not a free speech absolutist so this 'dilemma' is not a dilemma for me.

Really I should have been far more censored in my past and God saved me.
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#20
RemyBrown
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@AdaptableRatman
I am not a free speech absolutist so this 'dilemma' is not a dilemma for me.
Fine.

RemyBrown, please consider what you are suggesting here. You are supporting sex slave abuse for no just cause at all.
How much are you willing to sacrifice for free speech?  If it's nothing, then you don't value free speech.  If it's something, then please indicate what it is.

I'm autistic; I don't have empathy for human beings.  I only care about people (including my family) to the extent that they are useful to me.  The only thing stopping me from murdering and r@ping is I find these activities etremely immoral.  But if I see some rando person get murdered or r@ped, then I don't shed a teer for them because they're a stranger.

I don't act on Patheos wrt ideological positions; I only use logic and morality.  I'm a Juror 4.
#21
AdaptableRatman
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@RemyBrown
I am also autistic and have no idea why you confuse psychopathy for autism.
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#22
RemyBrown
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@AdaptableRatman
I know you are RM.

Psychopathy is a personality construct characterized by impaired empathy and remorse, along with traits such as boldness, disinhibition, and egocentrism. Individuals with psychopathy often exhibit callousness, manipulation, and superficial charm, which can mask their lack of emotional depth. While psychopathy is not a formal clinical diagnosis, it is frequently associated with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), sharing symptoms like low empathy and high manipulativeness. Understanding psychopathy involves recognizing its complex traits and how they differ from other personality disorders.
I don't do participate in disinhibition.

I usually don't have superficial charm unless I'm at work.

But empathy is for leftists and the majority of the nation has no desire to convert to leftism.

I would also add that thinking empathically/emotionally wrt political ideology leads to massive hypocrisy if done too much.  I would rather be callous than a hypocrite.
#23
AdaptableRatman
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@RemyBrown
I prefer the term was/were RM, it may mean not much to you but it means something to me the was vs is/are distinction there. RM is dead to me in a sense. That is not who I ever want to be again. I made my username obvious so this is not about deceit at all. I really am reformed as a person and trying my best to be polite and kind always (that doesnt mean always mr nice guy or passive but nice and passive is my new default)

There are MANY right wing charity volunteers and philanthropists.

#24
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@RemyBrown
I do not see hypocrisy in my stance.
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#25
RemyBrown
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@AdaptableRatman
There are MANY right wing charity volunteers and philanthropists.
Sure, but how is right wing ideology empathetic?

Take Immigration: If a parent is separated from their child for nothing more than being undocumented, and the child is traumatized from it, then how is it possible for a right winger to claim that being pro ICE is the empathetic position?  It's impossible.  Empathy is for leftists.  There may be some anti abortion charity or something like that, but they care about preventing fetal homicide; they aren't empathetic.

I do not see hypocrisy in my stance.
If you get too much empathy with respect to your ideology, then you end up with wanting to ban desalination plants because you don't want to steal water from fishes due to high amounts of empathy for fishes (yes; as crazy as this stance is, I've met multiple people with this stance).

Too much empathy is a thing.
#26
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@RemyBrown
Too much empathy is not a thing, too much sympathy is.
#27
WyIted
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Freedom does come with considerable danger and I am okay with that danger. 

I think it's fair to ask what our freedoms rely on and how much pain that brings to others. The rape example has been used in different varietions before. Most notably in the book "The ones who walk away from Omelas"


The book has a bunch of people living in a paradise but this paradise is upheld by the suffering of an innocent child who is tortured to make it happen. 

The question is, do we have an ethical obligation to walk away from Omelas. There are two ways to look at this. By walking away you no longer contribute to the suffering of an innocent person. However those who stay will point out that the suffering will happen whether you walk away or not, and in fact a different type of suffering will occur even if you could get everyone to walk away.

I think the best we can do is recognize the suffering our peace and prosperity causes others and then try to mitigate that damage until it can be removed. Personally I only buy clothes from thrift shops because of the sweat shops nearly every piece of clothes comes from. 

However there is other suffering I cause to others and hopefully we as a society can also support some policies to mitigate that damage. For example huge tarrifs on China helps to increase the prices of their products made in sweat shops so that way we can at least lower the amount of labor and shift it to nations where this type of abuse of employees is less prevalent like the United States, England or California. 

Diamonds are mined with the blood of children so I refuse to get my wife a wedding ring that costs more than $50. I just try to do my part.
#28
WyIted
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Take Immigration: If a parent is separated from their child for nothing more than being undocumented, and the child is traumatized from it, then how is it possible for a right winger to claim that being pro ICE is the empathetic position? 
Given the amount of child trafficking across the border, separating children from adults reduces the contact potential traffickers have with innocent children and there is minimal harm done if it's their actual parents because they are returned. 

Maybe there is some trauma there but it's less trauma than the alternative of keeping children in the care of sex traffickers
#29
fauxlaw
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@RemyBrown
I do not respond to filth. You are selling filth. Stop it, petulant child.
You are blocked.
#30
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@WyIted
Diamonds are mined with the blood of children so I refuse to get my wife a wedding ring that costs more than $50. I just try to do my part
I bought a diamond ring that was factory made instead of mined.