Game Show Mafia DP1

Author: Lunatic

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#451
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
As Savant and I have already noted, Austin has shown up late at least three times and been town each time. This really isn't unusual for him, even if it's a bit annoying.
Are you town reading him for not showing up? It’s NAI, and if he doesn’t show up, he should probably be lynched. 
#452
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@Casey_Risk
Survivor is a popular show. I wouldn't claim a show like that. Its my mod given character. You know, because I'm town.
#453
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I really think Banana is town. Her logic here regarding Earth relies a lot on how she views Mikal's push, and not so much on Earth’s own behavior. I don't think this is good logic, but it's really reminiscent of The Russian Mafia, where she used an extremely similar line of logic to defend That2 - Banana thought she was being dogpiled and viewed That2 as likely town as a result, though she didn't really have much to say specifically in defense of That2's behavior individually. Again, Banana's behavior here is really consistent with her town meta. By contrast, in the one game where Banana was scum, she didn't really seem to use this sort of logic. I just don't see the argument for Banana being scum here.
#454
Mikal
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@Casey_Risk
I have not seen Luna do recent games but I’m working on him with a game for solo leveling and I can tell you with certainty, it’s not an easy split to figure out. 

I understand the logic, don’t fully agree with it yet but that’s based on my character. Maybe I’m wrong and I’ll adjust this later as more comes out but there are so many tv shows, this is one game that you probably could easily get away with claiming some random shit 

The role bothers me more than the character. The only redeeming factor about earth at all is it makes sense with the show 

His play is scummy, the role is scummy, and I’m not fully sure if the show is a fake claim or not. Typically i stay away from IIOA. Always better to use info as a supplement off of behavior imo 
#455
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@ILikePie5
I disagree. He has. He literally self voted before. This is honestly more in line with his town play
You're right, he did that recently in The Russian Mafia. Not sure how I overlooked that tbh.
#456
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@ILikePie5
Are you town reading him for not showing up? It’s NAI, and if he doesn’t show up, he should probably be lynched. 
No, being a total no show is NAI as I said. I was just pushing back against Earth's reasoning for scumreading Austin for it, but not Moozer.
#457
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@Earth
Survivor is a popular show. I wouldn't claim a show like that. Its my mod given character. You know, because I'm town.
Yeah, that's more or less what I'm saying...
#458
Casey_Risk
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@Mikal
Typically i stay away from IIOA.
Feels like I'll always be learning new acronyms. What's this one mean?

Always better to use info as a supplement off of behavior imo
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
#459
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
Back to Wylted

I felt his vote on Moozer was opportunistic. Sure, I had a reason, but that doesn’t mean he needed to join in.

And finally let’s talk about what I’m NOT seeing from Wylted. Behavioral thoughts, not even a blurb about it. In past town games of his, I’ve seen him give quick thoughts on small things about other behavior- sometimes it seems like he’s trying to insta-solve, other times it’s just reaction baiting. None of that to speak of here.
I agree with this. Wylted usually starts forming town blocks pretty fast. I don’t see that effort here. I feel like he’s posting just for the sake of posting, though he hasn’t said anything for the past few pages
#460
ILikePie5
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Yall really just want to make it harder for me to catch up
#461
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I have not seen Luna do recent games but I’m working on him with a game for solo leveling and I can tell you with certainty, it’s not an easy split to figure out.
Also, I'll take you at your word for this, but I will say that this would be a deviation from the norm for Luna as a mod.
#462
Mikal
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@Casey_Risk
Information instead of analysis. 

Typically is a scum tell for when they try and fluff 
#463
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@ILikePie5
Yall really just want to make it harder for me to catch up
We're really active without your input for once, and now you're complaining about us being too active?
#464
Savant
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@ILikePie5
And no scumreads. I agree with this
#465
Mikal
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I’m turning on the computer just to info dump. Impossible to do it on the phone and just got home. This will be a long post. So afk for a bit until I do post because I’m going to iso a lot of people. 
#466
ILikePie5
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@Earth
If Mikal will get off my ass and stop tunneling me, I am Survivor. I am the Soldier. Survivor is a show with 48 seasons all about surviving physical and mental challenges to the end. If I am the last surviving town member, town wins automatically. 

Interesting. I actually believe this. 
#467
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
We're really active without your input for once, and now you're complaining about us being too active?
Nope, it’s good, just a pain in the ass cause I only use mobile 
#468
Savant
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@Casey_Risk
I really think Banana is town. Her logic here regarding Earth relies a lot on how she views Mikal's push, and not so much on Earth’s own behavior. I don't think this is good logic, but it's really reminiscent of The Russian Mafia, where she used an extremely similar line of logic to defend That2 - Banana thought she was being dogpiled and viewed That2 as likely town as a result
A big difference being that here, banana is using this to attack Mikal's credibility, specifically after Mikal scum read some of banana's posts as well. Overall, I find banana's more recent behavior a bit OMGUSy and overly defensive, and the defense of Earth seems a bit opportunistic as a way to throw suspicion toward Mikal. She’s been focused on defense as scum before here and here, though I couldn’t really find a similar situation to compare that behavior to in her town game. (Although she seemed a bit more open and less accusatory in general as town.)
#469
ILikePie5
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@Savant
Soldier is an obscure role, and claiming it completely defeats the role's utility.
Not entirely. Cause at 2-1, town is guaranteed to win assuming Earth is actually town. I’ve included the role in my games before.

Survivor is extremely common. Only way Earth is scum is if this was the fake claim that Lunatic gave.
#470
ILikePie5
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@Savant
That's the entire point of the soldier!!! To save the town if we can't win otherwise.
The alternative is lying, which is probably not recommended here, and I wouldn’t recommend it at all generally. We had a whole fiasco a couple games ago with townies lying.

Do you disagree that if Earth is scum, then this has to be the fake claim that Lunatic gave?
#471
Savant
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@Casey_Risk
Feels like I'll always be learning new acronyms. What's this one mean?
If you want to look up acronyms, you should try using GSW filtering for CFMS. In particular, a lot of the acronyms Mikal uses are from PLMU. I would recommend being familiar with the acronyms from MATVL to avoid being scum read, as a common scum tactic is to PNTNT.
#472
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@Savant
Okay, that's actually a much better argument in favor of Banana being scum than what Mikal has given so far, imo. I'll take that into consideration, though I still lean town on Banana overall.

As for Mikal himself, it's tough for me to read him. I will say he has seemed remarkably consistent so far, which can be tough to fake. However, there's just a little thing bothering me about him... I'll wait for him to make his big post before I reveal what that is, however.
#473
Savant
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@ILikePie5
Do you disagree that if Earth is scum, then this has to be the fake claim that Lunatic gave?
If Earth is scum, I think Survivor is the fake character claim but Earth picked soldier themselves as it's pretty obscure.
#474
Savant
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@ILikePie5
The alternative is lying, which is probably not recommended here, and I wouldn’t recommend it at all generally.
I think Earth could have fought harder to keep his role secret at least. Claiming Survivor as the show may have been enough by itself.
#475
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@Mharman
Speak for yourself. I got it wrong already 

Bruh
#476
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@Savant
I can give you a TLDR, but you're gonna need a TLDR for the TLDR
💀
#477
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@Savant
I think Earth could have fought harder to keep his role secret at least. Claiming Survivor as the show may have been enough by itself.
I actually think he did. He engaged with Mikal and everyone else and he was still pursued. I just think it’s impossible for him to claim survivor as scum without it being a fake claim.
#478
ILikePie5
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@Mikal
The main problem is like I mentioned above. If there are cop altering roles. God father, lawyer, bus driver, redirector, whatever all the possible roles are. That he is not confirmable. Nothing we do will validate him. He can’t be tracked. Can’t be watched. Can’t have that role last game where a pm Is given to someone. As scum, dude can just sit there until he needs to kill and coast. 
I think this is a really weak argument. This argument can be used for anyone. Why can’t he be tracked! Why can’t someone be watched. There are counters to every role.

Doesn’t mean he is scum but just pointing out the issue with that claim. It’s so obscure and it was given as the first claim of the game 
My claim is obscure. Funny enough, I think I’m the only one who has used it. 

Past the role or character. His behavior is just inherently scummy. I really really wana iso him 
Like what?
#479
Savant
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@ILikePie5
claim survivor as scum
You're referring to the show, right? The role is soldier and I've gotten them confused since there's another role called survivor.
#480
Mikal
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Earth 

I. Early Game Coasting
  • Posts 30 → 221 are mostly fluff and lack real substance. Notable:
    • Post 111: Pushes back on Pie for asking him to post reads. Instead of contributing, he gets annoyed, showing defensiveness
    • Posts 117, 170, 172, 173, 179, 215, 221: All are low-content and avoid engagement. He is coasting, without progressing the game.
II. Reaction to Pressure
  • Post 233: I apply pressure. Earth promises to post reads, a reactive move, not a proactive one. This suggests he was only willing to contribute under pressure
  • Post 235: Posts a reads list that’s extremely basic like he just skimmed the game, with little to no reasoning to back up the reads. Clearly thrown together to relieve pressure, not to solve the game. 
  • Posts 297, 350 and beyond: Starts getting defensive, and then full claims his role, all from pressure just form a few people
III. The Role Claim 
  1. Obscurity: The claimed role is so obscure it's safe, does not risk a CC, and hard to verify. 
  2. Major Issue: Earth says this:
    “I don't remember the name, but wasn't it in a recent game?”
    (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/516218) - This just really hits hard. It really feels like someone took the time to research the role and he is baffled at why we are questioning him. 
IV. Why I Pressured Him
My original push was based on:
  • Lack of reads or meaningful participation
  • Contributing nothing to solving the actual game and only contributing fluff
  • Being a potential liability in the endgame
His response to this pressure was:
  • Full claim
  • Becoming defensive
  • Not engage until pressured