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@Savant
You're referring to the show, right? The role is soldier and I've gotten them confused since there's another role called survivor.
Yes, I am referring to the show
Game Show Mafia DP1
Posts
Hot
Total:
609
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@Mikal
His response to this pressure was:
- Full claim
- Becoming defensive
- Not engage until pressured
Funny enough, this is exactly how he reacts as town
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@Mikal
We have some similar concerns about Earth, but I don't scum read him as harshly as you do.
- Posts 117, 170, 172, 173, 179, 215, 221: All are low-content and avoid engagement. He is coasting, without progressing the game.
Disagree with this. Post #170, for example, ran the risk of starting an argument with Casey. #172 confronts me possibly misrepresenting Earth. #173 is saying he supports my idea, which is necessary for any proposal to get off the ground. #179 is again responding to a post, and are posts not meant to be responded to? Any of these had potential to progress the game if the other player responded in a particularly scummy way. #215 doesn't avoid engagement, it literally challenges you. #221 clarifies his behavior after Casey calls him out for his post.
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@ILikePie5
I think this is a really weak argument. This argument can be used for anyone. Why can’t he be tracked! Why can’t someone be watched. There are counters to every role.
He has heat. Let's say they lawyer him, or he is a Godfather. What way do you catch him if they don't have him kill. If we accept his claim at face value, and he is scum. He can absolutely ride this to the end. All I am saying with is IIOA is not the way you address him. Does the role make sense with the character, absolutely. If there is a fake claim or fake role involved in this, it skews the game. It is not AI in any circumstance and is a reasonably safe claim with very little counter play to catch if he is lying. That is not saying we have to lynch him or he is scum, but that this is a perfect claim to just do nothing the entire game and be safe. Especially if a good scum player came up with it or at least a portion of it.
Like what?
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@Savant
You can call it OMGUS if you want. I literally just think it’s a bad read. Mikal doesn’t seem like a dumb person to me, therefore it’s more likely he’s trying to take advantage of who he feels would be an easy mislynch. Same argument applies to what he’s doing to earth.
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@ILikePie5
Yes, I am referring to the show
Is it not believable for Survivor to be a fake show claim? Luna gave you the main character in Invincible mafia. Also if one mafia uses the fake char and one uses the fake role, 2/3 of them get to fake claim.
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@Mikal
I really really wana iso him
Are you active on Mafia Universe?
That's where I think the acronym is usually used.
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@Savant
215 - may be where he starts "engaging" if you want to call it that or being defensive.
You and I may just have a different definition of progressing the game. Casey is progressing the game, you are progressing the game, pie when he is around is progressing the game, I am progressing the game. Typing things in response to things just to type something (even if it is a light challenge or addressing a point), is not really progressing the game or really contributing in a way to gauge meaningful info from. After those pots from light pressure, and he is getting annoyed. That to me is when he starts participating. Again, likely because he felt pressure.
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@Savant
Not ATM but I played there a lot in the past. Along with Epic Mafia
It is not AI in any circumstance and is a reasonably safe claim with very little counter play to catch if he is lying. That is not saying we have to lynch him or he is scum, but that this is a perfect claim to just do nothing the entire game and be safe. Especially if a good scum player came up with it or at least a portion of it.
Okay, but what about that makes you think there's a Lawyer/GF? And more importantly, why did you say that he can't be tracked/watched?
Damn I'm so far behind. I'll work on catching up and give some thoughts when I do.
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@Casey_Risk
I think its not a sure thing if a GF/lawyer exists. 1x cop isn't something I would necessarily counter with a GF.
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@Mikal
He has heat. Let's say they lawyer him, or he is a Godfather. What way do you catch him if they don't have him kill.
And what if they don’t? This is all speculative WIFOM that you can use on any player, which is what makes it weak.
If we accept his claim at face value, and he is scum. He can absolutely ride this to the end.
He can, no doubt about it, but his behavior is exactly the way it was when he was town in the previous game I played with him. And it has been that way the previous game.
All I am saying with is IIOA is not the way you address him. Does the role make sense with the character, absolutely. If there is a fake claim or fake role involved in this, it skews the game.
Yes, but now if you think this is the fake claim, the next scum we pressure won’t have anything left.
It is not AI in any circumstance and is a reasonably safe claim with very little counter play to catch if he is lying. That is not saying we have to lynch him or he is scum, but that this is a perfect claim to just do nothing the entire game and be safe. Especially if a good scum player came up with it or at least a portion of it.
There are countless roles like that. It doesn’t make him scum by default. Just claiming an unconfirmable role doesn’t mean he’s scum. Claiming an obscure role doesn’t mean he’s scum.
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@Earth
1x cop isn't something I would necessarily counter with a GF.
Who said anything about a 1x Cop?
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@Savant
Is it not believable for Survivor to be a fake show claim? Luna gave you the main character in Invincible mafia. Also if one mafia uses the fake char and one uses the fake role, 2/3 of them get to fake claim.
I’m not making a call one way or another. What I’m saying is if you think he is scum, they’re using Survivor as the fake claim.
Here’s a better question, what are your thoughts on Mikal using Earth’s unconfirmability as a reason to want to lynch him? I think it’s weak af
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@Casey_Risk
Who said anything about a 1x Cop?
That’s the prize for getting the trivia right. Town get 1x Cop, scum get 1x Politician
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@ILikePie5
Clarifying, I am not saying it's definitively scum. I'm saying it's convenient. Just like WFS claim seemed off and was convenient last game, this one seems really similar as the first claim. My biggest problem with him is early game behavior and how defensive he got. Add that in to the portion about him stating that role had been in another game recently and trying to justify the claim. It reads me wrong.
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@ILikePie5
Here’s a better question, what are your thoughts on Mikal using Earth’s unconfirmability as a reason to want to lynch him? I think it’s weak af
At least frame my argument right. I'm saying behaviorally he seems off, and the claim seems convenient. The portion about not being confirmable is a liability argument on the backend of the behavior.
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@ILikePie5
That’s the prize for getting the trivia right. Town get 1x Cop, scum get 1x Politician
Oh right, duh. I forgot about that.
Earth does raise a good point however, a 1x Cop that town might get during NP1 isn't something I would likely balance with a GF or a Lawyer (even a 1x Lawyer), especially not in a game where both town and mafia are meant to be somewhat underpowered according to the OP (I don't think I've seen anyone else mention this yet).
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@Mikal
Clarifying, I am not saying it's definitively scum. I'm saying it's convenient. Just like WFS claim seemed off and was convenient last game, this one seems really similar as the first claim.
WF’s claim and Earth’s claim are not even remotely close. WF’s had a roleblocker and bus driver which are scummy roles. His claim J-36 also was an outlier
My biggest problem with him is early game behavior and how defensive he got.
His responses to me read annoyance. And he’s basically been targeted early every game. I frankly get the defensiveness. Bottom line is that you have to think his claim is a fake claim given by Luna. The better play is to get another claim from a scummy person
Add that in to the portion about him stating that role had been in another game recently and trying to justify the claim. It reads me wrong.
It wasn’t in a recent game though. I’d expect scum to be sure of what they were saying if this was true.
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@ILikePie5
what are your thoughts on Mikal using Earth’s unconfirmability as a reason to want to lynch him? I think it’s weak af
I wouldn't lynch off that alone, but I do think scum are more likely to claim unconfirmable roles than town. I think to get a good read, you have to take everything you can into account. And Mikal already had reasons for suspecting Earth behaviorally, although I disagreed with many of them.
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@Mikal
At least frame my argument right. I'm saying behaviorally he seems off, and the claim seems convenient.
What’s convenient about it? That it’s unconfirmable? That’s weak. The whole argument about a possible GF or Lawyer is just weak
The portion about not being confirmable is a liability argument on the backend of the behavior.
I never said that was the sole reason, I said it was part of the reason, and I’m calling out that piece of flawed logic
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@Mikal
Was #480 your info dump that you were going to go afk for, or is there more?
I wanted to get the post about earth out.
Town Block
Savant
Casey (I will elaborate on this more if needed. I was initially stuck on the perfect timing of when they started engaging and considered it scummy but since then, they feel like they are genuinely scum hunting. Post that made me move them to the town block was this https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/516325. This was a very good analysis. I still disagree with it but referencing another game and considering how ana is getting to a read on earth is very well thought out and I am not sure scum would put this much thought into a read. At least a read that is considering how someone else is arriving at a read. This can be feigned but reads very towny to me
WF - When he started engaging (https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12687/posts/515992) - Here and when I pressured him into a lynch list. It seems thoughtful. Not sure if the initial non committal shit was AI but when pressured he was willing to break on some reads and give some insight. I am okay with leaning town on him for now.
Pie - I actually like that pie is questioning me. He is wrong in how he is framing my argument but based on what he is typing, the logic to question me makes sense. He is just leaving out portions of it. Hopefully not intentionally and from misunderstanding. But challenging it when there could be a lynch on earth reads me as town. Not being around has made a super solid read harder but this recent exchange feels good. I will see more later as he continues
Null
Moozer - I just saw his post and missed this before. (someone that has played with him before. what is his meta. The post seems like it's to get heat off him for being inactive, he even says that). But he did put thought into reads, not sure how thoughtful or active he is as town or scum
Austin - Totally Null
Wylted - Moving Wylted to null. Wylteds entire game has been pressure inactives and say he has lost interest in the site so he's forcing himself to contribute. Maybe it's true but also a good way to coast
Mharm - as mentioned I struggle with this fucker cus he bounces around and questions his reads constantly. I want to Iso him but am tired and don't have the brain cells to do it today after earth.
Scum
earth - have been into this
ana - same reasons plus now frustration and omgus
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@ILikePie5
What’s convenient about it? That it’s unconfirmable? That’s weak. The whole argument about a possible GF or Lawyer is just weak
I agree with the second part, but the first argument feels really weird to see coming from Pie of all people.
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@Casey_Risk
that plus below. I was going to try to ISO everyone, but I don't think I have the brainpower to do it after today. But I wanted to frame my points on earth at least coherently and not on a phone.
did give some summaries (above this now) that I can expand on if needed but I think based on previous reads, you can follow the logic.
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@ILikePie5
Bro it's additive. Why do you lynch a miller?
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@Casey_Risk
I agree with the second part, but the first argument feels really weird to see coming from Pie of all people.
How so? Is an unconfirmable role inherently scummy? Not necessarily. A Cop is technically unconfirmable. Scum can lie in general regardless of the role they take on.
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@Mikal
Bro it's additive. Why do you lynch a miller?
Because it interferes with cop investigations.