Which also makes me think he is scum even more because he can’t even explain why I’m scum Redding him. I literally would rather get kicked in the nuts than keep explaining it over and over.
Game Show Mafia DP1
Posts
Hot
Total:
627
-->
@Mikal
You can think pie and I are theater. That’s fair but know. Between him and earth not reading a fucking thing I’m posting I genuinely want to punch myself in the dick.
I have been reading and responding to you. My issue is that I think you have a solid baseline, but I think you’re going too far, possibly even tunneling. The whole GF/Lawyer additive or whatever you want to call it is pure garbage
Yes my character makes me question his character as town.
If it’s from a theme perspective, it’s useless btw
You are saying scummy behavior is his town meta. I am not sure what to say to say that. I have not played with him in ages but disagree with letting scummy behavior slide because that’s just how he is. Anyone can abuse that
Yes anyone can abuse that, which is why I’m considering it NAI. You should probably read his interactions with other people, not his interaction with himself for a better read.
Actually I’m good with Austin claiming at this point. That or replace. I am not sure how else to deal with that issue atm beside intense pressure the second he types.
Glad we are in agreement
-->
@ILikePie5
Well it's DP1, so my reads are just me committing to words what's bouncing around in my head. It's not like I'm going to want to Lynch Mikal, but that said, what he's doing does seem like an easy scum play. I have no problem lynching inactives, but putting only inactives in your scum pile seems a little scummy.
I've got no problem with the Earth Lynch or with Mikal's justification for it, the really confusing thing is banana. I didn't see any good justification for why banana should be scum-read other than "inactivity" which 1. is on point for banana, and 2. isn't even that bad compared to the other three. That leads me to believe that Mikal maybe slipped a little and lumped banana into his scum-pile with the others because she's new-ish like me, and wasn't the most active.
From what I can see, banana has been active enough and has acted townie enough to give her a null at least. If Mikal could back up his reasoning, then that's another story, but all I've seen is "inactive" and once Banana pushed back a little "OMGUS"
-->
@Mikal
Also the part about “easy mislynches”I feel like you guys are on nuts.
Banana, Moozer, and Earth are the 3 easiest people to get lynched historically, and I think you know that
-->
@Mikal
1) Ana is not an easy mislynch. I’m the only one scum reading her2) sure earth may be an “easy” mislynch but I stand by his behavior is anti town and I don’t fully buy his claim3) Casey - at the time I am not even sure if Casey was an “easy” mislynch. Again was the only one scum reading him because of the weird timing of when he started actually playing the game4) inactives- this is the best case for an easy Mislynch but you tell me how to deal with people that are not playing other than pressure or just killing them. Having Luna replace is like the other alternative. But yeah someone not typing for an entire day phase is Defacto a detriment and if you read my ddo games or have played with me online. I have vigged people for that for giggles
I've got no problem with your justification for Earth, Casey, and inactives, but once again I don't see justification for Banana. The rest of your scum pile is fine on it's own, but it's the presence of banana that makes me start to doubt the whole of it.
-->
@whiteflame
@Mharman
@Mikal
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.
Do yall see what I’m seeing regarding this post?
-->
@ILikePie5
Also I agree that the theme analysis is void. It’s why I’m not pressuring him on that and throwing it into the additive part of the read.
It’s mostly behavior with the other parts adding back end validity. It’s just like the more that points to bullshit the more I think it’s bullshit.
Why are you so sure his behavior is town? Or not scum ?
Can you at least fully admit if a normal person is playing like that. It’s highly indicative of scum.
-->
@Mikal
But as you notated, it’s possible you just has got home. I notated that but said it was less of an issue than earth Anna or inactives. I’m in bed on my phone so can’t find the post. But I know I said this or at least outlined it.
Here's my thing, though: I brought up the fact that the DP was only about four hours old when I showed up. (This is one of the points I mentioned, and you still haven't responded to it yet.) That's only about 6% of the time available in a 72 hour DP like the ones we have here on DART. I don't buy that you didn't know how long they usually are on here. Why were you so focused on labeling me and others as 'inactive' so early? Obviously Austin can accurately be called inactive now, and Moozer was as well before he suddenly showed up. But if you're getting ouchy about players not showing up within the first six hours of a three day DP? I have to think that you might just be trying to push an easy target.
that post is where I locked you in as town. Much the same as whiteflame when I moved him to town. when someone actively starts engaging in the game and seems like they are genuinely scum hunting. That is a town tell. You were exhibiting all that before but that post is where it felt the best.
I guess I can understand where you're coming from here, though it still is a piece of evidence in favor of my theory that you may have been trying to set up a wagon on me. But I know it's not proof by any means. The thing that struck me more was that you hadn't said anything about your read on me progressing when you moved to the four-player list (unless you did and I just missed/forgot about it).
As scum why would he kill? Could he kill and do something stupid yes. But he has a a very niche claim and they could set him up to ride the game out if there is roles that alter investigations.
I guess that's a possibility. You're ignoring the argument Earth and I brought up, however, about how including something like a Lawyer/GF feels like a really odd and unlikely way to balance for a 1x Cop that the town might not even receive at all. Besides, you could make this argument in pretty much any game. "If this person is scum and we don't lynch them, they might appear to be town because of some role that interferes with investigations!" I mean, sure, that's technically true, but it's such a weird thing to bring up, and it doesn't make me want to lynch Earth any more than I did before you brought up that argument. Again, this is the sort of thing that aligns with you trying to set up a wagon on Earth as scum.
Also, I know you say that you can't follow all my links right now, but please actually respond to my post about Banana just following the site meta when you get the chance.
-->
@Moozer325
Ive acknowledged Ana is a gut check. Prop do things you can shake and past seeming like she was intentionally farming town cred there is not much else. But it really really really seems like she was trying to farm town cred.
That and the omgus recently giving a little more credence to that.
Sometimes you get a read that is just more of a feeling and everything in my gut says that post was her trying to posture to look good.
-->
@Mikal
Also I agree that the theme analysis is void. It’s why I’m not pressuring him on that and throwing it into the additive part of the read.It’s mostly behavior with the other parts adding back end validity. It’s just like the more that points to bullshit the more I think it’s bullshit.Why are you so sure his behavior is town? Or not scum ?
I’m not. His behavior to me is NAI. That’s why I’ve been focusing more on the character and claim
Can you at least fully admit if a normal person is playing like that. It’s highly indicative of scum.
Oh yes 100%.
-->
@ILikePie5
Do yall see what I’m seeing regarding this post?
Hmm, not quite. Could you explain what it is that you see?
-->
@Mikal
That and the omgus recently giving a little more credence to that.
I just don't think there was an OMGUS though, this...
If posting little is a scum tell, you will scum read me in every game we play. I’ve probably posted twice as much this day phase than I have in most normal games entirety. I am a busy person and most people here know that I’m not super active. I’m trying to be better at it, but don’t expect me to post as much as you, or even a fraction of it.
does not feel like an OMGUS
Official Vote Count:
Mikal- 1/6- Casey
Mharman- 1/6- Whiteflame
Austin- 1/6- savant
Earth- 1/6- Mikal
Moozer- 2/6- Wylted, Banana
-->
@Casey_Risk
I’ll give you a hint. Mislynches
-->
@Casey_Risk
Wasn’t that you were not showing up. It’s when you showed up and it was right after I started mentioning you and yes if 8/11 people are going and it’s been most of the day. You try to find ways to address people that aren’t playing for a variety of reasons. More likely to slip. Less time to think what they post. And under pressure someone being geninue is usually easier to spot.
No I had not said it directly but I also had not made another list or posted hard reads about everyone other than the hard scum reads. It’s more of a mental note. But if I was trying to set you up for a soft Mislynch, I was trying to set 4 other people up. But I’ve explained this process in what I consider depth already about that Poe. Did I say I actively say my thoughts no. But didn’t really say much about whiteflame other than I liked one of his posts and how he was posting. I sat on you for a while debating if you just started trying because you got pressured or because of genuine effort. That post is where I solidly landed on town block. I was already appreciating the effort but it was the first post I was like. Okay I don’t think scum would put this much effort into thinking about Ana’s thoughts. But I was already watching behavior prior to that and debating if scum would try that hard.
Do you think there is no cop? I remember talking to Luna about this before sign ups and he said he had to rebalance for 11 and that he felt like the Trivia could make the game swingy. I guess I’m assuming there is a cop and the other cop is just an extra cop lol. Never considered that was the only way to cop tbh.
-->
@ILikePie5
I’ll give you a hint. Mislynches
You think Moozer is TMIing because how could he know that those are all mislynches? I can see that.
-->
@ILikePie5
Percentage you think he is actually town?
-->
@Casey_Risk
Define your case for Anna. Sorry phone is aids and most of the time im Posting on memory.
-->
@Mikal
Do you think there is no cop? I remember talking to Luna about this before sign ups and he said he had to rebalance for 11 and that he felt like the Trivia could make the game swingy. I guess I’m assuming there is a cop and the other cop is just an extra cop lol. Never considered that was the only way to cop tbh.
I do think there is no Cop. Having an actual, dedicated Cop as well as a winnable 1x Cop role doesn't jive well with the meta here. If someone claimed Cop, I'd consider them to have been CC'ed by the game itself.
-->
@Casey_Risk
You think Moozer is TMIing because how could he know that those are all mislynches? I can see that.
Correct
-->
@ILikePie5
I’ll give you a hint. Mislynches
Are you saying that I scum slipped by calling them mislynches? Because that's not what happened. This is what I said:
Yeah, I think you might be onto something. I wouldn't blow it out of proportion, but it's weird that 4 of his original five are clear mislynch targets. Like I said before, there's reasoning for three of them, but the fact that Banana got lumped in with them with little explanation makes me reconsider the whole bunch.
I was thinking through the scenario in the eyes of Mikal if he was scum. I was theorizing that if Mikal was scum he would see those four of us as easy mislynch targets. Besides, I was part of the four, so I wouldn't call myself a mislynch.
-->
@Mikal
Percentage you think he is actually town?
Earth? Prob 53% only because the behavior is null and the character and role make sense together. Plus also the info I know about my character and role
-->
@Mikal
Define your case for Anna. Sorry phone is aids and most of the time im Posting on memory.
This is what you had said in a previous post:
Suggesting a path for town to take and then immediately must doing it without getting feedback about the thought really pings me as farming cred.
And this was my response to this argument:
Okay, here's the problem with your logic - this inference is all wrong. I know you haven't played here in quite a while (save for the last game), but it's the meta on this site to actually go ahead and softclaim first if you're suggesting that everyone sorts themselves into categories. Banana is just following that meta. It's NAI.
I'm caught up and... yeah, I'm not going to do a great job sifting through all this when I'm tired. I'm going to provide some preliminary thoughts to the extent that I think I can explain them and revisit this tomorrow.
With regards to Earth and his claim, I fully agree that it looks off. Yes, the role makes sense with the character claim, and yes, I buy Pie's argument that it's only likely that he'd fake claim Survivor if he got his as a fake character claim. That narrows the likelihood significantly since it's a very early claim with a lot of risk behind it, as does the early softclaim from him. As for his behavior... I get so much of what Mikal is getting at, but Earth is one of those players who will behave in a way that sets me off when he's town. It's happened a lot. Don't ask me how we get along as scum, it just kind of works and it's a beautiful thing when it does. That's why it's hard for me to put too much emphasis on his behavior as a basis for scumreading him: it often leads me down the wrong path. Going back to the role claim, it's a very safe claim to put out this early, and yeah, I can absolutely see a world where he received this as a fake character claim and just went for it. Earth is the kind of person who takes risks with his claims as scum, which is part of the reason I'm at odds with the claim itself. I just don't think this is his modus operandi as scum. So I can entirely understand sussing him, especially with the lack of responsiveness, but he's null to me right now based on my experience with him.
As for the case on Mikal, from the start, he's been hard to read. Savant has become a much clearer townread as the DP has gone on (I just don't buy that he'd do all this highly specific analysis as scum and I think he's remained consistent enough that he's just reinforcing the townread), while Mikal has remained largely in the same place as a slight townread. I see where Casey's coming from and I think there could be something there, but I'm going to need to go through some of those posts in more detail to see if the pattern holds up.
Other more abbreviated thoughts:
I have a stronger townread on Casey. I can explain that more later, but pushing back on a variety of reads and pushing these kinds of susses just doesn't seem like anything I'd expect from a scum Casey.
Sorry about your illness Pie, looks like you're feeling better based on these responses. For now, at least, I think your interactions look pretty genuine. Not impossible to fake, but not what I'm taking away and I'm seeing enough of it that it's pushed you into a slight townread.
I'm going to give Banana another look in the morning. Not really sure what to think on her right now and I've been dedicating more time to others. Same with WyIted, want to revisit my read on him.
Moozer's been working at catching up and his set of reads is... fine. He has me in his scum pile which is fair enough, even if many of his reads are very surface level. Don't think it's really moved the needle. His willingness to claim and statement that he can basically confirm himself make me think he might be town, but I think a character claim at least still makes sense. I think Pie's point about Moozer seeming to know that all four of those players are mislynches doesn't help his case, so insight may be necessary at this stage.
Position hasn't really changed on Mharman. I like his reads well enough, but he keeps vanishing into the background for large stretches. Maybe that's just because the game is moving too fast, I know I'm having trouble keeping up (hell, the game has extended by a whole page since I started typing this), but I can't get a bead on him like I normally do from those reads.
Oh, and I think I did this earlier, but I noticed my vote's still up:
Unvote
I'll be prepared for a lot more reading in the morning.
-->
@Casey_Risk
I can see this but I guess when he was worried about it being swingy and I saw the prizes I assumed he had meant swingy for town. The extra vote thing isn’t that great so I have been assuming natural second cop for a night
Gonna say a lot of this arguing looks town v town. The premises seem like things town would fixate on but are generally bad for actually scum reading people.
Another thing I'm gonna have to consider is that later reads lists agreeing with the majority may actually be suspicious. I think someone brought that up already, but in this particular case, I think it's very tempting for scum to align themselves with the town core.
My reads are always surface level. I suck during DP1.
Anyways, I'm going to bed now. I'm gonna be so mad If I wake up and have to read like 10 more pages of this DP.
-->
@ILikePie5
@Moozer325
I wouldn't call myself a mislynch
Moozer defends a scum slip with another scum slip...
I mean irony aside, I'm not sure how AI this actually is. Pie reads a lot into wording like this and is usually wrong (though I think it's towny for Pie to be paying this much attention.)
-->
@Casey_Risk
I think it’s not mutually exclusive. It can be meta to do that. I don’t know what kind of meta that is but even if it’s meta scum can do it for town cred.
Just like a goon can claim miller and risk a cc. But if he gets away with it he has cred for following meta. If you are saying it’s some hard game rule where to move a game forward, you come up with a theory and you have to support the theory by leading, then sure I can admit that’s not AI and lessens the claim I have
I am struggling to believe that I guess. That seems like a wild meta? Not that I don’t believe you but I feel like some portions of that are missing context
It’s the same issue I have with earth partially where we said don’t claim yet till we hear more and he’s just like “blah blah blah”. Scum tend to do that shit go farm cred and that’s how her post hit me. If someone else will verify that’s some strict town meta, I’ll go back and re read it all again with that in mind but everything in my gut is pointing a finger at her as a good Poe target.
-->
@ILikePie5
Okay I may regret this but I feel like it’s important. I’m a classic show.
If that also helps while I’m curious about his claim. Add that to his behavior it may help you see why I’m “tunneling”