Legal "assassinations": Crazy enough to work?

Author: Savant
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politicians

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#31
Savant
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So who would they remove?
Every non-nazi canidate.
Not possible, the party of the candidate you remove replaces them.

What they would do is have a candidate who is a puppet of Hitler and Himmler but says nice things about jews while winking and the nazis all know it.
Puppets are possible but not usually as beholden to their "masters" as you might think. There's a reason Putin made himself the actual president as soon as he could. There's no guarantee this puppet will actually listen to Hitler or Himmler, think of how much influence people said Elon would have vs how quickly he and Trump fell out.

You're leaving out the obvious possibility: Hitler and the inner circle worked themselves up just as the rest of the party and the country were.
Then why did they try to hide it even within their own country?

If someone like Trump was removed with my rule for being polarizing, who are Trump supporters going to turn to that's more polarizing than him?
Steve Banon, Alex Jones. If they couldn't get them they'd start a civil war.
Neither of them are close to being Trump successors. I mean it's possible something changes, but they're not in that position right now. Look at who the 2028 frontrunners for the Republican Party are besides Trump: Vance, Younkin, Trump Jr., DeSantis. Three of them are obviously more moderate than Trump.
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#32
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@yachilviveyachali
Not when you have media influence and terrible groupthink among the masses. They believe what they are told to believe, and doubt what they are told to doubt. Who needs AI when we have the human?
How many examples of "unique good policies" are there made by a politician that no one else would have made? Surely you can come up with a few examples.
#33
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@Savant
Only if people were as crazy as you suggest, in which case why aren't politicians being assassinated all the time? Even before the Secret Service, assassination of presidents was rare.
There are. Politicians and those involved in politics are assassinated across the world more often than you think.
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#34
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@yachilviveyachali
There are. Politicians and those involved in politics are assassinated across the world more often than you think.
So how does my system make it worse? Those people would probably still be alive if they could be removed peacefully just as easily.
#35
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@Savant
So how does my system make it worse? Those people would probably still be alive if they could be removed peacefully just as easily.
It leads to needless change and creates further instability. Your system could be abused by political activists and by the courts.

Sometimes, the status quo is all we have, and we should try to keep it.
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#36
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@yachilviveyachali
Your system could be abused by political activists
More so than assassinations currently?

and by the courts.
More so than impeachment?
#37
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@Savant
More so than assassinations currently?
Yes, I think so. There would certainly be more attempts at removal, which is a waste of time and money. Can you imagine all the nonsense it would create?

More so than impeachment?
I have the same answer.

I can imagine the powers using the people.
#38
RemyBrown
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@Savant
I like the idea, BUT the sacrifice shouldn't be life imprisonment; it should be death.  Meaning, someone could offer themselves as a human sacrifice (they have to be beheaded) and in exchange, a politician would be barred from holding office forever.  I don't want my tax dollars taking care of a political prisoner.

Politicians should be getting killed all the time then, right?
They have security that will protect their literal life, but not their POTUS career.

But to play Devils Advocate: What if there are 30,000 people willing to die to prevent a republican from being POTUS?  The chain of command isn't 30,000 Republicans.
#39
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Whatever you think is crazy, remember that remy can beat you.
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#40
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@RemyBrown
I like the idea, BUT the sacrifice shouldn't be life imprisonment; it should be death
Not sure it's necessary to go that far. Having a clear peaceful transfer of power is important, and someone dying will probably reduce trust in the government and eliminate the "peaceful" part. If death is on the line, why wouldn't the person try to actually kill the politician and get prison time instead of death?

The chain of command isn't 30,000 Republicans.
Maybe in the worst case set a limited number of assassinations per party. Or require that multiple people together agree to go to prison as a group.
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#41
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Whatever you think is crazy, remember that remy can beat you.
I mean I knew Remy wasn't going to call my plan inhumane lol
#42
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@Savant
Steve Banon, Alex Jones. If they couldn't get them they'd start a civil war.
Neither of them are close to being Trump successors.
No problem, just take out the other contenders.

Alex Jones as at least 100 listeners who would spend life in prison to make him president.

It's just war by another means. Everyone will know that the prisons will run out of cells before a winner is decided so they have an end game.

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#43
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Alex Jones as at least 100 listeners who would spend life in prison to make him president.
You could remove a hundred others from office and it won't turn Alex Jones from unelectable to electable. The center right would find someone.
#44
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@Savant
Or require that multiple people together agree to go to prison as a group.
That's a different game. Now you have a wide range of sliders.

"Staked Veto" might be the best phrase.

If the number is high enough, the cost can be lower; but in the extreme it's just democracy again.

So what you're really talking about is giving power to minorities that feel extremely strongly. I certainly see the appeal, being a part of more than one small minority.

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#45
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So what you're really talking about is giving power to minorities that feel extremely strongly.
There's that, but I only trust minority factions to the extent they can "filter out the worst," which I think is generally easier to do than picking the "best" person. Mainly, I think there should be filters for politicians who are uniquely corrupt. "Tests of virtue," if you will. Another policy I thought of having was requiring all politicians to anonymously donate a kidney before even running. A selfish person wouldn't give up a kidney not even knowing if they could get elected, but someone who actually cares about the country would probably be willing to do it. Maybe also require 5,000 hours of community service before running for office. Again, something a good person wouldn't have a problem doing anyway.

Look how many times a popular policy gets implemented poorly because the people doing it are incompetent or corrupt. If democracy is giving the majority what they want, most countries fail even that standard.
#46
RemyBrown
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@Savant
I mean I knew Remy wasn't going to call my plan inhumane lol
Your plan is too humane for me.  I don't want to spend tax dollars on prisoners regardless of the crime.

Not sure it's necessary to go that far. Having a clear peaceful transfer of power is important, and someone dying will probably reduce trust in the government and eliminate the "peaceful" part. If death is on the line, why wouldn't the person try to actually kill the politician and get prison time instead of death?
They could fail, lose their life, and the POTUS is still the POTUS.  My sole concern is economic because my tax money is more important to me than a prisoner's life.

Maybe in the worst case set a limited number of assassinations per party. Or require that multiple people together agree to go to prison as a group.
What quantities do you support?

#47
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@Savant
There's that, but I only trust minority factions to the extent they can "filter out the worst,"
The ability to filter is the ability to select.


Look how many times a popular policy gets implemented poorly because the people doing it are incompetent or corrupt.
The powerful would simply corrupt whatever process you have. The only solution is constitutional structure and personal incentive.

For example you say a selfish person wouldn't do 5000 hours of community service?

Yea but an insane person might if the community service was doing drugs. Before you laugh, I remind you that the government is stealing my money so that they can do a medically unnecessary surgery to create artificial vaginas in the bodies of convicted criminals.

No hand-waiving is permitted at this point in history.
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#48
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@ADreamOfLiberty
@RemyBrown
My sole concern is economic because my tax money is more important to me than a prisoner's life.
Then it's in your interest to get rid of corrupt politicians and encourage peaceful transfers of power. Think of it as an investment.

The ability to filter is the ability to select.
Well there's a difference between vetoing a few people and selecting one out of thousands.

The powerful would simply corrupt whatever process you have. The only solution is constitutional structure and personal incentive.
Well yeah, it would have to be part of the constitution. Not really more corruptible than other requirements.

an insane person might if the community service was doing drugs
If they're that outwardly insane, I doubt they'd have the skills to run a good campaign. You can be a little crazy, but you need planning and shrewdness.
#49
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@Savant
Then it's in your interest to get rid of corrupt politicians and encourage peaceful transfers of power. Think of it as an investment.
That is a good point, but every politician becomes corrupt, so the investment is going to go sour.

Well yeah, it would have to be part of the constitution. Not really more corruptible than other requirements.
You need 3/4 of the government.  But then how do you overcome curroption?
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#50
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@RemyBrown
every politician becomes corrupt
Well, not equally. There are ways to make it worse or better.

You need 3/4 of the government.  But then how do you overcome curroption?
No idea how to get the votes for it. Very unlikely to get implemented, but I thought it was an interesting idea. I suppose it might be useful if a new country formed and was looking for ideas.
#51
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@Savant
Well, not equally
Every politician becomes adequately corrupt.

I get that it's an interesting idea; but try it locally first (and the penalty should be death for the volunteering sacrifice to save money).
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#52
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@RemyBrown
try it locally first (and the penalty should be death for the volunteering sacrifice to save money).
I don't think most countries would allow a local jurisdiction to implement a system like this, especially one that executes people for this.
#53
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@Savant
I've read some nations and leaders in history would blind their defeated enemies or potential rivals.
That they would be viewed as unfit for office.
Not that such 'always worked, there 'have been a number of blind rulers in history.

You could 'possibly blind a leader, and not get a death sentence.
(Depending on country)
Just some sharpened fingernails, and when they go in for the handshake. . .
. . .

In your system though, what type of prison would the Legal Assassin of someone's political Career, go to?
Regular prison population?
Special prison for Legal Assassins?
Solitary?
#54
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@Savant
If someone's willing to go to prison for life to get a politician out of office, maybe that politician ought to be removed from office. It's not abuse, it's the system working as intended. They'd get replaced by someone from their party anyway, so it should barely hinder government operations.
How would you deal with the issue of something just needing to be done for the health of the nation, even if it is unpopular such as what Hitler did to the Jews?
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#55
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@WyIted
How would you deal with the issue of something just needing to be done for the health of the nation, even if it is unpopular such as what Hitler did to the Jews?
That person has to get elected first, so that scenario only makes sense if they lie to get elected. Generally, I think politicians lying has a bad net effect, so I'd rather reduce it than incentivize it.
#56
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@Savant
If they can do it after election and force a new election it will just be used for extortion.

i.e. "do this for my community or you're out".

For example, some very unhappy minorities would gladly find volunteers to sacrifice themselves after every election. They just cripple the government until they get what they want.
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#57
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If they can do it after election and force a new election it will just be used for extortion.

i.e. "do this for my community or you're out".
Well, you ban that the same as banning blackmail. Politician can just go to the police if they are threatened like that. Also it doesn't result in a new election, the party replaces them with the next person on the pre-published list.
#58
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@Savant
It could lead to a Manchurian candidate like 50 people down the list and then just 49 Japanese patriots who have United States citizenship. The kamikaze effect and all being what it is. Bonus points if they anger hundreds of Manchurian candidates deep down lists because they know even if they lose 10,000 patriots the Manchurian candidates when in power can just release them
#59
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@Savant
Politician can just go to the police if they are threatened like that.
and what? Threaten to put somebody in jail for life? :)
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#60
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@ADreamOfLiberty
and what? Threaten to put somebody in jail for life? :)
Put them in jail but keep the politician in office, yeah. That ruins the blackmail.