Need anymore be said? Clinton, Oba'a, Biden could have done this years ago when it would have been much easier. None of them did. Trump did. Any questions?
After 46 years, Iranian Mullahs are on their begging knees
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38
Do you really think Iranians are going to stand idly by?
Unless Iranians revolt against the Ayatolla regime, they are going to respond. Maybe closing the Strait of Hormuz. If they do that we're fked.
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@fauxlaw
I dont care about Iran
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@IlDiavolo
It appears 80 - 90% of Iranian people are in favor of the end of the Mullah's autocratic rule of the country, and, therefore, support the action Trump took tonight, which has been signaled to the Mulluhs over the last 60 days, in particular to Trump, and generally for years. Tonight's strike, contrary to claims by some congressional Democrats, did not violate the War Powers Act of 1973. Fact is, the president is not obligated to seek the approval of Congress to effect an air strike without committing boots on the ground as long as the president informs Congress of the justification of the strike within 48 hours of the strike. Congress now has their notice within an hour of the attack such that Democrats had no opportunity to leak the attack to Iran. I would personally not doubt some of them would leak.
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@fauxlaw
Hey Faux.
It's been about 40000 years and we still haven't learned how to peacefully interact, physically, emotionally and psychologically.
And we still base our superiority complexes upon, and pray to, mythical MANGODS.
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@fauxlaw
'Would it have been easier years ago?
Not that I think Iran is on it's knees yet.
Trump only did the airstrikes 'after Israel knocked out a lot of Iran's air superiority I think?
Syria falling apart,
Many of Iran's proxies doing poorly against Israel,
The phone bombs,
Maybe Iran's also weakened itself a bit, by launching missiles at Israel for 'years, October 2024 Iranian strikes on Israel - Wikipedia, I mean 'yeah, that says 2024, maybe they didn't do it any previous years. (Not sarcasm, I'm not well read on international conflicts)
Course they also supplied their proxies with missiles I assume.
'Possible Iran finally going in for nuclear weapons,
I know people 'claim it's a cry wolf situation,
But for all I know they 'have been that close for a while, but were slowed down by various actions of other nations, or saw the near 'possibility as greater use than actually 'finishing development on nuclear weapons, and possibly being attacked for such.
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@Lemming
Maybe Iran's also weakened itself a bit, by launching missiles at Israel for 'years
You shouldnt post links you didnt read.
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@LucyStarfire
How do you mean?
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@Lemming
If you read, you would know.
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@LucyStarfire
Nah, I think I'll just assume you don't know.
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@Lemming
Read your link.
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@LucyStarfire
I 'did, before I posted it.
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@Lemming
Keep pretending.
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@zedvictor4
The only beings truly at peace on this planet no longer draw breath. To live is to struggle.
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@Lemming
'Would it have been easier years ago?
It was unnecessary years ago, Obama's nuclear deal with Iran was much more effective without bombs, it would still be unnecessary today, but because Trump was obsessed with undoing anything Obama did, no matter what the consequences, he pulled out of the JCPOA, and now we have another war on out hands..
“We will measure our success not only by the battles we win but also by the wars that we end - and perhaps most importantly, the wars we never get into.” - Donald Trump inaugural address.
Gaza and Ukraine were the wars he would end. (in 24 hours btw), I think this is one of those wars we were never going to get into,
Trump has betrayed everyone who ever trusted him, his creditors, his wives, his business partners, everyone in his administration, the American people, his base, the only person he ever stayed loyal to was Putin...until now.
Iran's Foreign Minister is in Moscow meeting with Trump, they have said "Wait for our response".
Trump promised to be a "peacemaker and unifier", he promised to make us all safer.
I don't think we should feel safer as we wait for Iran and Russia to respond.
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@Sidewalker
It is possible you are right, but I think this because I am uninformed on the deal, or 'why it would supposedly be good.
Many of the restrictions on Iran’s nuclear program "have expiration dates," according to the Council on Foreign Relations, noting for example that centrifuge restrictions would be lifted after 10 years and limits on how much low-enriched uranium Iran can possess after 15 years.
"Some of the deal’s opponents faulted these so-called sunset provisions, saying they would only delay Iran building a bomb while sanctions relief would allow it to underwrite terrorism in the region," the organization said.
That doesn't really sound an 'ideal deal for us, (To me)
Why do we expect them to have any intentions to back away from their 'years of Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia?
. . .
I 'suppose they've continued their nuclear plans 'anyhow, so one can make the argument that it's better to 'try to get along, try to keep an eye on the situation.
Rather than let them continue in secret their own way, and hostile to us without any cooperation.
. . .
I 'must admit, I 'am leery of US military involvement in Iran,
Hard to know which way situations will go sometimes,
Though if Trump 'manages a quick end in some way, be a feather in his cap.
I'm a 'bit doubtful it'll be that easy, but some situations can go a lot of ways.
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@Lemming
It is possible you are right, but I think this because I am uninformed on the deal, or 'why it would supposedly be good.
Check out the chart in this article regarding the number of centrifuges in Iran, look what happened after the Iran Nuclear deal, and then look what happened after Trump cancelled the deal. He created this situation.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-iran-strikes-jcpoa-nuclear-deal-rcna214131
Many of the restrictions on Iran’s nuclear program "have expiration dates," according to the Council on Foreign Relations, noting for example that centrifuge restrictions would be lifted after 10 years and limits on how much low-enriched uranium Iran can possess after 15 years.
"Some of the deal’s opponents faulted these so-called sunset provisions, saying they would only delay Iran building a bomb while sanctions relief would allow it to underwrite terrorism in the region," the organization said.That doesn't really sound an 'ideal deal for us, (To me)
It was effective, it may not have been effective forever, but the current situation would be a lot better had Trump kept it. Iran is a terrorist threat, that didn't change and it never will, the task at hand is to keep them from getting nukes, the JCPOA was effective in that regard.
Why do we expect them to have any intentions to back away from their 'years of Iran and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia?
Nobody expects that, which is why we can't let them get nukes.
I 'suppose they've continued their nuclear plans 'anyhow, so one can make the argument that it's better to 'try to get along, try to keep an eye on the situation.
Yes, that was the intent of the Nuclear Deal.
Rather than let them continue in secret their own way, and hostile to us without any cooperation.
The JCPOA included international monitoring and verification of Iran's nuclear program by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Unscheduled inspections and strict monitoring were effective; their nuclear plans only continued in secret after Trump wrecked the deal.
I 'must admit, I 'am leery of US military involvement in Iran,Hard to know which way situations will go sometimes,Though if Trump 'manages a quick end in some way, be a feather in his cap.
Yeah, it would be nice if Iran decides to join hands and sing Kumbaya with everyone, maybe their response to the bombing attack will be to shut down the US terrorist cells, yeah, the terrorist cells will probably join Putin in singing Kumbaya too.
I'm a 'bit doubtful it'll be that easy, but some situations can go a lot of ways.
Yeah, and one of the ways this one can go is really bad. Trump invading California didn't make him look tough, his birthday parade didn't either, but maybe Iran and Putin are both shaking in their boots now, that's probably why Iran's Foreign Minister is in Moscow, learning to harmonize for Kumbaya.
You just bombed a country because Trump wants to swing his dick around with Putin and the other class clowns.
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@fauxlaw
It appears 80 - 90% of Iranian people are in favor of the end of the Mullah's autocratic rule of the country,
This doesn't mean Iranians agree with the American attack. From what I heard, they're against it.
The world was expecting the Iranians set themseves free from this autocratic regime, but without the unopiniated intervention of the US. It seems that the US didn't learn anything from Irak.
I won't be flying on any airliners in the US for the next 3 years.
Let's give Netanyahu some credit here. I doubt Trump would've risked a B-2 if not for all the groundwork the Israelis did ahead of this operation, which came at the cost of the lives of Israeli citizens. All the US had to do was deal the finishing blow. Assuming things end here, we'll walk away without serious damage to our own reputation unlike, say, in Iraq in 2003, as all we did was detonate a few conventional bombs under a mountain that, according to the left, had no facility buried inside of it anyway so there should be no fatalities per this line of reasoning.
But now comes the hard part. Will we successfully convince the Iranians that it's time for a regime change, or will this be a short-lived victory that we'll have to repeat in 5 years?
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@Swagnarok
We must give Trump credit too. He promised to end all wars in 24 hours, but then started 3 new wars and maybe even world war soon.
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@LucyStarfire
Didn't God say that Trump was the dumbest person he ever created?
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@Sidewalker
iran was playing the long game with obama's nuclear deal. it allowed inspectors and limited enrichment for 15 years in exchange for trade and economic and sanction relief. they wouldn't agree to longer than that. what's better, dealing with iran when it's weak or when it's much more economically powerful? you can't always bribe terrorists or bad guys or give them slack and always expect they'll play nice. sometimes force is necessary.
Putin told Trump to bomb Iran so that Russia could sell them nuclear bombs.
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@n8nrgim
iran was playing the long game with obama's nuclear deal. it allowed inspectors and limited enrichment for 15 years in exchange for trade and economic and sanction relief. they wouldn't agree to longer than that.
When it comes time to renegotiate, we are negotiating with a country that has peaceful prosperity, they have more to lose. Iran can never get nukes, if they don't agree is 15 years, we bomb them.
what's better, dealing with iran when it's weak or when it's much more economically powerful?
When it's economically powerful there's more to bomb, economic prosperity does have a tendency to make angry people chill out and want to protect their possessions.
you can't always bribe terrorists or bad guys or give them slack and always expect they'll play nice. sometimes force is necessary.
Yes, either they come around or force it is, the JCPOA was an agreement to cooperate, and it may have served to diffuse the situation, instead of bombs today, we could have an Iran that has enjoyed the benefits of 15 years of peaceful prosperity to consider when determining if 15 more years is better than bombs.
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@Swagnarok
But now comes the hard part
You have summarized the events and consequences very well.I agree with all, including your conclusive query. It is, virtually 100%, now on the Iranian people to self-determine their destiny from here, and I feel an obligation to assist them with their effort without putting boots on the ground. We may have to do a little more of the same as done Saturday, but we can do it with little cost or successful complaint be Democrats that Saturday, or further effort like it was and would be unconstitutional, deserving of impeachment. Current law [the War Powers Act] is definitively on the President's side.
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@LucyStarfire
started 3 new wars
What "3 new wars?" If you're counting Saturday, that was response to war begun in 1979 by Iran, which is just extension to war against Israel by severe Middle East countries since 1947 [with whom we have a treaty of protraction] .
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@FLRW
so that Russia could sell them nuclear bombs.
So, Russia needed permission to sell nukes to Iran? Whose? China? By your own position, you've acknowledged it's Putin telling Trump, so why does Putin need Trump's permission to sell nukes to Iran?
Common sense, much?
The people talking about the 2015 deal are missing the point. It provided sanctions relief to a regime that would've used the influx of money to: (A). internally shore up its own existence; (B). fund more terrorist (AKA "regional proxy") activities and further destabilize the Middle East, and make the Suez Canal shipping route that much more unsafe; and (C). build up and modernize its military, which notoriously still maintains a fleet of F-14s from the Shah era, posing a greater threat to Israel and US forces in the region, and enabling them to better defend their military nuclear program from attack once they resumed work on it. The deal also permitted Iran to keep a civilian nuclear program, which of course was always a potential stepping stone to a military nuclear program.
It's now the year that JCPOA would've expired, and thanks to this operation Iran still doesn't have the bomb, and now probably won't until such a time that they would've otherwise acquired the bomb post-JCPOA, but they've also been eating the costs of sanctions the past 7 years and are weaker than they've ever been. They couldn't prop up the Assad regime and it collapsed. Hezbollah, once regarded by Israel as an existential threat, fought the Jewish state and lost, because there was a limit to how much Iran could fund and arm them. The Iraqi paramilitaries haven't taken over the country yet, and plausibly never will.
Once this present conflict ends, hopefully in a couple of days/weeks, it'll become immediately clear that the Middle East today is a more secure place because Trump exited the deal. For some inexplicable reason Trump is savvy and capable of long-term reasoning when it comes to Iran but not with Russia lol.