leshwanda was wrongfully banned.

Author: WyIted

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#91
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@LucyStarfire
Maybe you could eat some more chocolate or something to stimulate brain flow? 
My diet is mostly chocolate and milk. I avoid meat, vegetables and grains.
You need more fiber, vitamins, antioxidants, protein, glucose, and fructose.

You might not make it to adulthood  

#92
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@ResurgetExFavilla
What places online do you recommend for expressing opinions and being around others who are articulate in a debate? 
#93
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@Castin
New mods are silent. New mods watch from the citadel. New mods are
spineless.
#94
ResurgetExFavilla
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@Mikal
I applied for Mod and if I get it  will advocate for free speech. To be fair David is actually motivated and I think wants to drive the site forward and has good ideas. But I fully stand by free speech should be allowed. Direct racism is harder but I concur, DDO style moderation is what made the site so good but I have faith David will make some good changes. 
Good to hear.

As an example, during the H1-B Christmas issue, on many sites I saw an incredibly intense and lively debate. People were asking stuff like - if 70% of the visas are Indians, are we getting the best and the brightest? Are that many of the best and brightest from India? If that's the case, why did they score so horribly on the PISAs that they dropped out of taking them? Why are so many of their tech grads, when tested objectively, unable to write code that compiles? If these are critical personnel, why are they being trained by the Americans that they are replacing? If those Americans can do the job and the Indian can't when they arrive, what is the justification? People were also talking about some of the horrific hygiene and sexual crime issues that are endemic in India and comparing them to countries like China.

People were talking about these issues even on Reddit. I look up this site using a Yandex site: search for H1Bs and... maybe I missed it, but I don't see anything. It seems like the perception is such that even touching these third rails will get your account banned, and so people don't want to risk it and a sort of tense silence reigned here for the duration of the scandal. Are any of those points 'racist'? Maybe by some definitions. But someone who could be talking about 50 non-racist things during the rest of the year isn't going to put up with being afraid to talk about one hot 'racist' political subject here when he feels freer to speak on Reddit, of all places. And so, he'll leave, and you'll lose engagement and activity. I think that racism is precisely the thing that needs to be blown open as far as moderation goes, in a way that sends the message: you will not be censored here. There is no gray area. Jimtimmy or whatever his name was from DDO needs to feel comfortable doing his schtick here. Will you get a Jimtimmy? Maybe. But you'll also get a lot of normal people who hold maybe one or two slightly 'racist' views but otherwise engage normally.

#95
ResurgetExFavilla
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@Skipper_Sr
What places online do you recommend for expressing opinions and being around others who are articulate in a debate? 

Twitter, soj.ooo, & Kiwifarms, are the '90-100% free' ones that I know of. Kiwifarms is the most 'rough-and-tumble'. Twitter is the most popular. Chans suck nowadays.
#96
fauxlaw
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My two cents:
I neither voted for, nor participated in the election of Wylted as president of this site, and, frankly, was heretofore unaware the party was the president of the site. Nevertheless,  my commentary below is therefore utterly unbiased. At the time of that election, I was not an active member of the site, having requested to be banned from some point in 2022 for a period of my choice for reasons not necessary to air here, but mentioned just to advise my unbiased opinion in this post. I returned this past March. 

Any president who does not recognize the distinction of an existing site CofC and effectively a Forum post that is, I'll acknowledge, an effort to collect suggestions for a new CoC, is questionable as having the wherewithal to be the president of the site. That seems to be a basic requirement that was clearly ignored by the first post and #7 of this string.

I have had my own interaction with the party banned, and do not object to the ban, finding that, at the least, the party in question violated
CoC, Objectionable Content: "5. If a user’s content includes unwarranted (or excessively toxic) systemic vulgarity and invectives, which may include off topic personal attacks and/or hate speech, moderation shall: [a. b. c. d]"

Moderation, in my opinion, acted within these current CofC policy steps. I further suggest a re-call of Wylted as President. Sorry to offend, but I think the action taken by this post violates the expected integrity of, let alone the distinction's ignorance noted above of an acting president.
#97
Mikal
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@ResurgetExFavilla
To be honest, I feel like this site is a bit more relaxed when it comes to banning people now. To Thett3’s point, it used to be much stricter, but in a way, it’s found a balance that allows for more discussion. The thing is, the way to drive traffic is by tapping into the intense political debates and conversations happening everywhere. To get the kind of engagement that is useful, you need to allow controversial and even problematic ideas to surface, because that’s where real confrontation happens. Those debates, where ideas clash, are what fuel traffic and engagement. We saw this dynamic with DDO. They capitalized on the Four Horsemen of Atheism era, and the religious debates alone got massive engagement. My debate with Roy on criminal justice ended up with almost half a million views. These hot-button topics are what people gravitate toward. It’s what they search for. People want content, drama, personalities, and characters. Those are the things that made DDO successful, but they never fully capitalized on it and let the site die because juggle was useless. 

That same dynamic exists here. Whether it’s Trump, Israel, race in America, immigration, or abortion, these topics are Hot. The key is freedom of speech and letting arguments happen, letting ideas clash. Then you can tap into the right algorithms on platforms like YouTube and Google, hoping it gains traction. That’s how you get the site to pop off. But to do that, you have to allow a certain amount of bad ideas to be voiced because it’s the clash of those ideas that generates the real content. Sometimes, dumb opinions are the fuel that gets things going and keeps the conversation alive.

With David able to make changes and actually giving a fuck. It’s the best chance the site has ever had to successful if he markets it correctly. 

#98
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Extension:
I personally question the purpose of the role of a president of the site. I think the lead moderator ought to fulfill that role, and is deserving of it, since the role ought to, at the least qualification,  have a clear, working knowledge of the set of policies ruling this site, whereas, the current occupier of the office of president, clearly does not have such understanding. I realize this suggestion violates the current policy description of presidential qualifications in the last qual listed [a candidate cannot be a current member of the Moderation team]. I believe that entire policy needs revision, anyway.
#99
Mikal
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@fauxlaw
I thought the same on DDO to the point I trolled it but a president is the will of the community and It can advocate for coc and policy changes. Everyone respects WF but he will always operate by the book because that’s why he exists as head mod. The president is the person who pokes him and the mod team to make changes for the community. Much older now but I was wrong about this take when I ran it into the ground before. It was useless on DDO because of juggle but with an active owner or mod team, it’s actually useful. 
#100
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@Mikal
Well said. A very valuable construct of a successful debate site. Tht is, both recent comments, #97 and #99
#101
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@Mikal
I have a little bit of hope because it seems like the political climate has calmed down a lot. Had it survived that long I think DDO would’ve been horrendous in 2020 for example. But I think people of all stripes feel more comfortable respectfully discussing and debating stuff again like in the 2010s 

MAKE ONLINE DEBATE GREAT AGAIN (MODGA)! Thank you for your attention on this matter. 
#102
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@thett3
Yeah. I agree 

David has the chance to hit a home run. Willing to invest into it myself because I miss the DDO days and I can always sell max as well. Granted the heavy focus right now is mafia but when David gets ownership passed to him, making the right changes and updates would be huge and drive traffic. 
#103
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@Mikal
Willing to invest into it myself
Buying ads? Not trying to pressure you, but if you mean something like literally investing money, that might save the site.
#104
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@Savant
Potentially yea. Combined with fund raising and asking Max to get engaged into the community again. 

I think there is a lot the community can do for very little investment to help the site grow. Ad words is very useful. 
#105
Mikal
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@Savant
Depending on what David can code or make happen. Premium Features is always something I bitched about on DDO. Similar to discord plus. Like 4.99 subscription fee gives you access to editing your profile, unique things, reactions etc. If people want to support it they will, then you reinvest it back into AdWords or ads in general to target key words. 
#106
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@thett3
But I think people of all stripes feel more comfortable respectfully discussing and debating stuff
And you think Leshwanda was" respectfully discussing and debating"?
#107
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@ResurgetExFavilla
New mods are silent. New mods watch from the citadel. New mods are wise.
Eh, I think this is kind of why the site is dead. I was looking over people I remembered from the past who had colorful, strongly held opinions and many of them have been banned or just stopped posting. Sure, as a mod you can ignore feedback from site users, and it causes less trouble in the short term. But there's a reason that there's been a drive to loosen up moderation rules by the actual users. This forum is just boring. Mafia is the only thing it has going for it and is really the only reason I came back. There are dozens of places I could go to discuss issues that offer more diverse spreads of opinions and users who are articulate enough to defend them well. In my opinion, the site has been slowly smothered in its cradle by enforcing an Overton window and level of decorum that's like a timewarp to 2015. Nobody on the internet wants that anymore, and there're so many better-populated places to find what people do want. For the people who want a hugbox, there are places that are much stricter. For people who want to speak and explore freely, there's an ever-increasing number of sites that offer complete freedom. The zeitgeist has moved on.
Imo it's just that the userbase is so damn small that the loss of any active user is too keenly felt. One or two bans can alter the noise level of the room. Doesn't help that some of the most loyal regulars are the naturally ban-prone.

The mods are just enforcing the CoC, and the users all vote on the CoC, so I don't know where we're going wrong if laissez-faire policy is the will of the site. I just don't think our low traffic problem is Team Sensitive's fault or Team Insensitive's fault. It's just lack of marketing and lack of funds.
#108
thett3
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@Sidewalker
100%

#109
LucyStarfire
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@Castin
Doesn't help that some of the most loyal regulars are the naturally ban-prone
I just use this site as online notebook to write stuff and then select what to save in offline notes. There are 7 other sites I use as well, and I cant really say that being banned from here will be a great loss for me.
#110
Mikal
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@thett3
You going to start hanging out again too? You better 
#111
Castin
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@AdaptableRatman
New mods are silent. New mods watch from the citadel. New mods are
spineless.
Shrug. Every time bsh1 communicated with the community in defense of his bans it just added fuel to the fire. Staying silent is the smart move. Less entertaining for me, but smart.
Topic's author
#112
WyIted
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@Skipper_Sr
It wasn't slave traders who called them negro which means black. Libtards decided that because. Southerners are bad at saying negro and it sounds more like nigger that it is randomly a slur
#113
Swagnarok
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@ResurgetExFavilla
You weren't Skep by any chance, were you?
#114
AdaptableRatman
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@Castin
Shall I repeat myself?
Topic's author
#115
WyIted
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@Castin
Into the new COC is it's goals. The COC is able to be modified and is a living document as well but written into it is the fact that it is intended to balance free speech with personal respect. 
#116
Castin
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@thett3
100%
#117
badger
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No chance anyone remembers how to spell Skep's full DDO name. Don't think I ever bothered to know how to pronounce it, which is the issue.
#118
Castin
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@WyIted
Into the new COC is it's goals. The COC is able to be modified and is a living document as well but written into it is the fact that it is intended to balance free speech with personal respect. 
I'm actually kind of confused by the new one. It doesn't say anything about racism being against the rules but she was banned in part for racism. Which parts of the old CoC is the new CoC replacing? Are racial slurs still against the CoC or not?
Topic's author
#119
WyIted
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Skeptsiyama or some shit
#120
badger
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Yeah Skepsikyima or something is best I got too.