OSAS, or Depends on the Day?

Author: ludofl3x ,

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  • ludofl3x
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    This is a big area of disagreement between sects of Christianity, so I figured since the creator => specific god thread has officially come off the rails, it was time for something new. 

    CHRISTIANS: which version of salvation do you think is correct, and why, and how do you support your choice from scripture? There's the always popular once saved, always saved folks, who feel that once you accept Jesus, you are definitely getting into heaven (creating a space for uninterrupted sinning with no consequence, it would seem). There's the saved through works folks, which places some emphasis on doing good deeds all the time. There's the depends on the day and time folks, like Catholics who think "Well I just left confession, I'm sin free now so I guess this is a good time for a tragic car accident", those that say you can't get in if you're covered in sin. There's the predeterminists, the ones who think being saved or damned is not up to anyone but is already determined at the time of birth.

    Which one's right? Why?

  • n8nrgmi
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    jesus compared salvation to seeds on the ground. some take root only to die later. that means you can lose your salvation. he preached if you do bad, bad things will happen to you. if anyone is against once saved always saved, it was jesus. and the only way to get to that idea is to rely on interpratations that might not even be true of the followers in the later letters of the bible. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    "Dear friendsif we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins."

    once saved always saved is unbiblical
  • keithprosser
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    osas is often misunderstood as a licence to sin.

    The real meaning is that if you are truly saved you will not sin.  That is if someone thinks they are saved and subsequently sins it only shows they were not saved in the first place.   That is very slightly different from the idea that you can be saved and lose your saved status by sinning subsequenly but it is 'functionally equivalent'.

    The calvinist version is that your fate was set at conception and it doesn't matter if you sin or live as a saint - it won't affect your destiny.

  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @keithprosser
    you are describing a truism. if you are saved and don't sin, you won't lose your salvation. but that's because you don't sin. and how are you making a meaningful distinction, by saying there's being saved and not sinning on one hand, and being saved and losing your salvation on the other? if you can be saved and then not saved, then once saved always saved is negated. either you are saved permanently or you are not according to the doctrine. the bible is clear, that people can be on the right path and then lose what they had. the most straigtforward way to read the bible passages is you can be saved, and then not saved, negating once saved always saved. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    ive known people who had beautiful christian faiths. then they become atheists and anti christian. i dont think it's fair to say they were never saved to begin with. they knew themselves to be saved at the time, and it looked to be true from the outside too. they were saved, then now they are not, is the most straightforward way of describing it using traditional christian terms. 
  • keithprosser
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    how are you making a meaningful distinction, by saying there's being saved and not sinning on one hand, and being saved and losing your salvation on the other?
    There is no practical difference.  It is theological hair-splitting, but hair-splitting is what theologists like to do!

    The point is that osas is not a licence to sin without consequences.


  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser @n8nrgmi
    N8nrgmi is right in that once saved always saved is not biblical.

    And it also isn't what The Church teaches. Salvation is a lifelong process. The idea that there is a single moment of salvation in a person's life and then they no longer sin is also not what The Church teaches. 


    The Christian life, however, is a life of repenting from sin. 


    And I think it is important to note that good intentions do not cover up sin. A sin is a sin whether or not it was intentional or not. The Methodists might disagree with me on this point, but they aren't The Church.


    And there is no man without sin. We all miss the mark. That is a foundational belief of Christianity. 





  • keithprosser
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    N8nrgmi is right in that once saved always saved is not biblical.
    It's not that simple!  john 10:27-28 reads 

    "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

    i am not saying that supports osas, but the Baptists do.  So whether it is biblical or not is relative; it depends who you ask.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac @n8nrgmi

    N8nrgmi is right in that once saved always saved is not biblical.
    It's not that simple!  john 10:27-28 reads 

    "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

    i am not saying those verses support osas, but some Baptists say they do.  So whether it is biblical or not is relative; it depends who you ask.


  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    Yes, it is easy to get confused if you don't see The Orthodox Catholic Church as the legitimate Christian church.

    Really, what matters is what the church teaches not if it is biblical. The Church is not based off the new Testament, the church wrote and compiled the new Testament.

    And by the church, I don't mean the baptists, who did not even exist 500 years ago let alone 2000.

  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    I know what you mean by THE Church!

    I reckon no Christian church can get close to what Jesus taught unless it junks Paul and all the theological mumbo jumbo that has overgrown a very simple message.   The essence is not john 3:16; it's James 1:27.
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    Saint Paul knew what he was talking about, Keith.

    You would junk 1 Corinthians 13?

    1 Timothy 1:5?


    You, like many so called Christians may be looking after a god in your own image.

    And there was a time, at the beginning of my Christian walk that I thought the same as you! But I later came to realize that Paul is really top notch. In fact, now I would even tell people that if you really want to know what Christianity is about, study Paul's letters. The guy truly was a brilliant theologian.

    And there is a consistency in the whole Bible that maybe isn't obvious to you. Ponder these quotations from the prophets, and realize that the point of it all is not these outward displays, but that which is done in the heart, in Spirit and Truth.


    Micah 6:8

    "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

    Hosea 6:6

    "For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."



    Think about those who say, "Oh, I can't wait until Jesus comes back and fixes everything! 

    Amos 5:18-24

    "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
    As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
    Shall not the day of the LORD bedarkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
    I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
    Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
    Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
    But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream."


    Isaiah 1:12-20

    When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
    Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it isiniquity, even the solemn meeting.
    Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
    And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
    Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
    Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
    Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
    If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
    But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."

    Zechariah 7:8-13

    "And the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah, saying,
    Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:
    And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

    But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
    Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.
    Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts"


    Ezekiel 18:21-24

    "But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

    But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."




  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    The whole point is Jesus Christ.

    Everything else comes from that.

    The Word of God.

    But you don't really know Jesus, because it is all theological mumbo jumbo to you!

    Theology is the study of God. Consider now that we acknowledge The Ultimate Reality as God. That being the case, there may be more depth and truth to our theology than you are aware of! 

    I do my best to make it very plain for all of you. Fundamentally, it is Truth worship. I am telling the truth, and doing my best to make it simple for everyone.

    But as long as you think you no better, my words are in vain because when I say "truth", you will interpret that as what you think I think is the truth and not what I really mean! The Truth.


  • WisdomofAges
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    OSAS ?  once saved..always saved...Hahahahaha....FOOL !   IDIOT !   IMBECILE !    

    The TRUTH FOOL.............Once SLAVED....always SLAVED....

    This is the PURPOSE of the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH God hoax parasites...just look at any of the ORTHODOX Jew-Jesus-Allah garbage
    on UTUTBE  or GOOGLE ....it is HORRIFIC to see how brainwashed and helpless these humans are





    the greatest SIN ever done.....IS....the invention of "JESUS" the throw away JEW..that was murdered and martyred by ROME
    as a SLAP in the JEW FACE...and then used as a scapegoat "GOD" hoax invention to assimilate and gain POWER plus CONTROL
    without needing a paid army...

    The hypnotized and enslaved to the Church CULT sheeple drone become the human TOOLS that deliver DEATH and DESTRUCTION
    to all that do not accept the CHURCH....clever..very clever strategy !

    The trick was to convince the sheeple that they could be saved and go to HEAVEN by going on the MURDER CRUSADES ...killing
    women-children-enslaving men...for JESUS !   no not really...FOR THE CON ARTIST SCUMBAG CHURCH CULT....YES

    Jesus the boy wonder farce "GOD" became the ultimate assimilation TOOL...which included delivering FEAR-INTIMIDATION-VIOLENCE
    as the true core strategy to CONTROL the hypnotized idiot followers.....

    SALVATION ?  yes...get the Middle East JEW-JESUS-ALLAH God brainwashing out of your mind and life....then you will experience
    the present moment and all the wonders that go with it....not drowning in CULT VOMIT...and literally DYING while still alive....

    Travel ?  Entertainment ?  Dating ?  curiosity-explore-discover-create +++  NO NO NO...not with the Middle East Concentration Camp
    Jew-Jesus-Allah GOD garbage....NEVER..you will be a pathetic slave till you drop dead...a living HELL while alive ! how sickening....

    DUMP the Temple-Church-Mosque save your life and that of your family...these Parasite CULTS could care less if YOU are dead or alive
    SERVE them and SUFFER...that is the priority....