Determining natural.

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  • disgusted
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    God created you in his image.
    You are heterosexual ergo your god is heterosexual.
    Heterosexuality is therefore supernatural.
    I see no discernible evidence that Jesus was heterosexual in fact the opposite is more likely given the evidence.
    Jesus is God.
    Homosexuality is therefore supernatural.
    It's hard to determine what is natural.
  • Mopac
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    That is not what it means to be created in God's image.

    Sin is a defilement of the image of God that we were made in. The Image of God is our human nature. Sin is what obscures that image.

    The Christian diiscipline is about keeping that Icon clean.


    When we allow passions to rule us, we are deviating from our nature. We are in a sense, becoming less and less human and more like beasts.

    Yet even someone who has traded in their humanity to be reduced to the level of a beast still, underneath all that muck, that Image of God is still there, and even the thickest muck can be washed away to reveal that image once again.

    And that is why we even bless those who persecute us, because we see Christ in everyone.


  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    That is not what it means to be created in God's image.

    Sin is a defilement of the image of God that we were made in. The Image of God is our human nature. Sin is what obscures that image.

    The Christian diiscipline is about keeping that Icon clean.


    When we allow passions to rule us, we are deviating from our nature. We are in a sense, becoming less and less human and more like beasts.

    Yet even someone who has traded in their humanity to be reduced to the level of a beast still, underneath all that muck, that Image of God is still there, and even the thickest muck can be washed away to reveal that image once again.

    And that is why we even bless those who persecute us, because we see Christ in everyone.


    That's not a response to my post it is just more indoctrinated nonsense without evidence.
  • Lernaean
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    --> @disgusted
    It seems pretty easy to determine what is natural.

    Does it occur in nature? If so, then it is natural. The definition of "natural" does not make an appeal to religion, so there is no need to use any theological reasoning. 

    Generally when people do use this word in a religious context, they mean "natural" to mean either "the way I think God intended it" or "occurs with great frequency".

    Some people use words inaccurately. When you don't correct this usage, you allow them to confuse the issue, which can render the conversation pointless. Case in point: You clearly don't like that religious people use the word "unnatural" to condemn things they don't like. But instead of pointing out that they are misapplying the word "natural", you've gone and argued that the concept of "being natural" is some complex thing. In reality, it is not, and the issue has been confused. 


  • disgusted
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    --> @Lernaean
    Do show me where I mentioned "unnatural" I'm at a loss.
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Well it's not like you can go to heaven if you have foreskin is it ?

    Here is a cringe worthy question..  Was God circumcised ?
     
    Usually when i type the word ( CIRCUMCISED )  YHWH pops up.
    And this jew god thing won't EVER and hasn't NEVER  acknowledged a single person with a foreskin.
    Wait for it.
    Hold.


  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    I surmise that the phrase 'in god's image' tells us that the Hebrew's image of their god was a very anthropomorphic one.
  • mustardness
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    Here is a cringe worthy question..  Was God circumcised ?
    Sir Francis Drake circumsized the Earth with 100 ft clipper.

    Did Adam and Eve have navals//belly buttons?

    Adam saw beach whale bones, --ribs and spine{ keel }--- and then took of one of his own ribs and spine to build the ship Eve, and proceeded to sail around the world ---as round as an apple//coconut---  in the belly//womb of the ship named Eve.

    Super-natural = extraordianary

    Extra-ordinary = Geodesic phenomena of Gravity (  ) Space and Dark Energy )( Space

    God{ Naga } = sine-wave /\/\/\/\/\/ sea-serpent

    God{ ess }-ence = (  )(  ) and two or more such tori define a spherical womb

    "G" od//"U" ni-V-erse = (>*<)  i  (>*<) 

    (  ) Space - vTime^ - Space )(

    i = ego assooiated with a baby 'its all about me' 

    I = ego associated with an adult baby 'its all about me'
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    The Nous.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    I think the scribes who wrote genesis were not over-intellectualised scholastic theologians and meant what they wrote - ie the gods created man to outwardly resemble themselves.

    I am aware the church reserves to itself the right to interpret scripture - but I'm not a member!
  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    What about the cock and balls and how your god uses them?
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    Well, to be frank, it doesn't really matter how you interpret scripture. You are not in the church. You do not have the holy spirit guiding you.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    Well, to be frank, it doesn't really matter how you interpret scripture. You are not in the church. You do not have the holy spirit guiding you.
    There wouldn't be any point me posting the orthodox view - that's your job!  I post what I think and leave it up to folk to make as much or as little of it as they like.  My only promise to readers is that I don't post what I know to be false.   

    It is accepted by many scholars that the story of yhwh's creation of man is based on the making of holy statues and idols, which is a neat mirror image and remarkably common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_man_from_clay .

    It would be natural for the writers of genesis to imagine yhwh would use his own form as the template for his greatest creation ie he would 'make man in his own iimage'.

    The anthroporphic version of yhwh was replaced by a more abstract conception over time, but Gen 1 has a faint echo of yhwh's past an clay idol as were all the gods of that time.  IMO, the abstraction of yhwh probably had a lot to do with the rise of montheism but that's ongoing research!



  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    Thank you for contributing to the poisoning of the well in order that people remain theologically ignorant.
    Not to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers!



  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    If I thought it was not true I would not post it.

    The ornate and complicated religions of today have their roots in ancient superstitions.  Their form and details are the result of historical accidents - if Constantine had lost the battle of the milvian bridge we'd never have heard of Christianity  to name just one of thousands of turning points.
    The story of how the god of a small obscure semitic tribe came to dominate european history for almost 2000 years is a fascinating one.  You tell it your way, I'll tell it the secular way.
       


  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    "We say that the entire Holy Scripture is divided into flesh and spirit, as if it were a spiritual person. For the one who says that the text of scripture is flesh and that its meaning is spirit or soul does not stray from the truth. The wise man is certainly the one who abandons the corruptible and belongs wholly to the incorruptible." ~ Saint Maximus the confessor

  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    Do you have anything that your god said or is it always men you quote?
  • Mopac
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    --> @disgusted
    The world you live in, and indeed you yourself was created by and through The Word of God.

  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    The world you live in, and indeed you yourself was created by and through The Word of God.
    Prove it.

    Do you have anything that your god said or is it always men you quote?
  • Lernaean
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    --> @disgusted
    Your conclusion was that "It is hard to determine what is natural." The whole point of your argument seemed to be to prove that it's hard to define the concept of "natural"-ness. Further, your inclusion of homosexuality made me think the underlying purpose of your post was to discredit the commonly made argument, "xxx is wrong because it is unnatural". (A la, "You can't say it's unnatural because it's hard to determine what is/isn't natural.)

    But your responses to others make me think that maybe you're just trolling. So don't worry about it.
  • mustardness
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    --> @keithprosser
    Mopac---You do not have the holy spirit guiding you.
    Kieth, this is insulting at best.  

    Kieth and all humans have holy { divine } spirit-1 and a wholy{ integrated } spirit-2.







  • IlDiavolo
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    IlDiavolo

    Well, Jesus was very likely heterosexual because according to scholars he had a wife and maybe a child.

    So your logical reasoning is wrong.
  • WisdomofAges
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    --> @Mopac
    Oh RIGHT ! ....just attach the word "CHRISTIAN" to your fake identity and VOILA !  you are so CLEAN !   

    Like YOU..some passionless lifeless sheeple drone ZOMBIE of some horrifically OBSOLETE Church CULT is :

    ...............so so C L E A N ! ............More like a filthy parasite VAMPIRE mind and life MOLESTER who plays
    "GOD" ....and who has all the answers to LIFE and DEATH, yet in a short time YOU will be REDUCED TO DUST
    and FORGOTTEN....just like all humans are destined to end up...

    This is why all Middle East "GOD" invented hoaxes must be reduced to MEANINGLESS MYTHOLOGY............
    and flushed down a toilet...

    Until the GODS actually arrive...there is absolutely no need  to worship - listen to idiotic parasites - and get hypnotized
    and brainwashed into some CULT group whose only purpose is to EXPLOIT you into servitude and slavery of their 
    agenda for power....

    These IDIOTS play "GOD" they are NOTHING...just humans who are themselves brainwashed and hypnotized by
    VAMPIRES of CULTS....simple as that....

    NO HUMAN EVER NEEDS to be VALIDATED and APPROVED to EXIST and DIE by some CULT infested imbecile

    "GOD" if there is such an entity...he or it needs to get off its lazy ASS and SHOW UP !

    ...NEVER FALL INTO THE CHURCH-TEMPLE-MOSQUE TRAP....it's 2019 time to put this obsolete Comic book 
    "GOD" garbage in the toilet...

    just look and listen to the Middle East JEW-JESUS-ALLAH GOD infested Parasite...is he/she the epitome of HEALTH
    and WELL BEING ?  are they both physically and mentally HEALTHY...are they OPEN MINDED and encourage 
    exploration-discovery of the possibilities of anything without RESTRICTION?   NEVER

    NEVER...NEVER...NEVER...these Church-Temple-Mosque Parasite VAMPIRES are anything but HEALTHY...
    they are truly the most hateful-resentful-destructive-oppressive contaminated HUMANS on EARTH...they 
    ACT...truly act like a "GOD" but they are pathetic mind and life molesting PARASITES....

    Get rid of the JEW-JESUS-ALLAH GODS...reduce then to meaningless MYTHOLOGY along with the psychotic
    brainwashed worshippers....as these Parasite VAMPIRES drop dead over time...HUMANITY will be free of
    this OBSOLETE fake "GOD" invented HOAX....and the fools who slave for them...= END OF SLAVERY
  • disgusted
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    --> @IlDiavolo
    That would be John 59 26:109 I guess, cos the bible is the only ancient tome that mentions him.
    There is no record in support of that claim.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Mopac
    Sin is a defilement of the image of God that we were made in.
    But god created everything didn't? And if he was incapable of making mistakes, then why create homosexuals and then condemn them?