T2 judgement day

Author: secularmerlin ,

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  • secularmerlin
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    @keithprosser
    OK - so you think of something we can argue about...!

    Ok I believe that terminator 2 was an amazing movie but a terrible sequal.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @secularmerlin
    At this distance, I now judge t1 to be a superior film to t2, based on which I'd rather re-watch.  but when it came out, i  was hugely impressed by t2 - its sfx were stunning for the time.   Now we're too used to stunning sfx.
    i thought t2 was a good sequel because the scenario didn't seem forced for the sake of cashing in - unlike t3,t4 etc!

    T1 has the feel of a low-budget independent movie - a human-looking robot from the future was a great idea for doing sci-fi on the cheap!   T2 was big-budget hollywood action block buster - and it's damn good one,   So t2 was an amazing movie and a good sequel - one of few examples of a sequel being a match for the original - did someone mutter 'Matrix'?



  • secularmerlin
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    --> @keithprosser
    T2 was a sensational movie. The story and special effects (both practical and computer generated) were superb. The characters compelling and the villain scary. It was not a good sequel however (even if it was as good or better than the original). It completely ignores the rules set out by the original about time travel. Nothing dead would go the terminator could only pass through due to the living tissue surrounding its metal endoskelleton. This means that transporting the t-1000 should have been completely impossible.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Nothing dead would go the terminator could only pass through due to the living tissue surrounding its metal endoskelleton.
    That is a common misunderstanding, but if you look at the original notes by the co-writer of the original short story that the first draft of the script is roughly based on.....

  • secularmerlin
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    --> @3RU7AL
     if you look at the original notes 

    Got a link?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Got a link?
    The evil studio execs had them mulched and molded into bugs bunny pinatas for orphans in Paraguay.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Bugs bunny pinatasyou say? Well at least they recycle.

  • oromagi
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I tend to place T2 & Aliens in the same basket. Both franchises start as sci-fi with traditional horror structure- a woman outruns an increasing pace of homicide until fortunes turn at the climax. What I found most interesting about the sequels is how traditional horror was quashed, the women now actively seek the killers, not because they expect victory but because maternal instinct compels them and the fate of humanity hangs in the balance and because they are now transformed by prior experience into badass experts. In horror the woman’s innocence is usually what saves her, in these movies the woman is saved by experience. I’ve always considered these movies an important  mile marker in the evolution of women in film. 

  • secularmerlin
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    --> @oromagi
    I don't disagree with any of that but aliens worked within the rules established in alien while t2 ignored the rules set up in terminator. T2 was such a great movie though.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @oromagi
    I tend to place T2 & Aliens in the same basket. Both franchises start as sci-fi with traditional horror structure- a woman outruns an increasing pace of homicide until fortunes turn at the climax. What I found most interesting about the sequels is how traditional horror was quashed, the women now actively seek the killers, not because they expect victory but because maternal instinct compels them and the fate of humanity hangs in the balance and because they are now transformed by prior experience into badass experts. In horror the woman’s innocence is usually what saves her, in these movies the woman is saved by experience. I’ve always considered these movies an important  mile marker in the evolution of women in film. 
    Well stated.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Nothing dead would go the terminator could only pass through due to the living tissue surrounding its metal endoskelleton. This means that transporting the t-1000 should have been completely impossible.
    Unless it used a thin covering of living tissue purely for the trip.

  • secularmerlin
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    Nothing dead would go the terminator could only pass through due to the living tissue surrounding its metal endoskelleton. This means that transporting the t-1000 should have been completely impossible.
    Unless it used a thin covering of living tissue purely for the trip.

    There is no such covering in evidence at the scene of the t- 000's arrival. Also if that was a valid method of smuggling dangerous objects why send a terminator at all when a neutron bomb would have done a far more complete job. Or even just advanced weaponry for the term8natorv(in both movies) in a flesh sack. 
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @secularmerlin
    There is no such covering in evidence at the scene of the t- 000's arrival. Also if that was a valid method of smuggling dangerous objects why send a terminator at all when a neutron bomb would have done a far more complete job. Or even just advanced weaponry for the term8natorv(in both movies) in a flesh sack. 
    Perhaps Skynet was able to overcome this technical limitation by sheer mathematical tenacity.

    Or perhaps the resistance had outdated intelligence.
  • secularmerlin
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    Perhaps but the film never addresses this so any speculation on our part is basically as skynet apologists. I'm afraid that an unobserved attribute is no different than a nonexistent one.
  • oromagi
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    --> @secularmerlin
    seems like the flaw is more attributable to the first movie than the sequel.  Why would Skynet build a time machine that only shifted organic matter?  And what’s the chemical principle that preserves living tissue but can’t transport the same elements independently- carbon, iron, etc. wouldn’t it make much more sense that the shock of time travel kills living tissue?  

    I think, like a lot of sequels, T2 was a little embarrassed by an illogical plot point in the original and so ignored it. 
  • 3RU7AL
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    Perhaps but the film never addresses this so any speculation on our part is basically as skynet apologists. I'm afraid that an unobserved attribute is no different than a nonexistent one.
    How reliable is the source of the "must have living tissue to time-travel" premise?

    Is Kyle Reese necessarily infallible? [LINK]

    He basically confesses he doesn't really know for certain how the thing works when he says, "I didn't build the f*ing thing!!"

    I personally like to think the machines understood the time machine better then the humans and so knew how to send a T1000 or a mostly metal T800 but the humans didn't have enough time to figure out how to send weapons before they were forced to destroy the complex. [LINK]

    Like you said, basically Skynet apologetics.
  • oromagi
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    There is seldom much profit in looking for scientific rigor in Hollywood Sci-Fi.  Consider that the problem of Skynet is created by some fairly stupid programming: oops, when we instructed Skynet to protect the world, we forgot to explain that biology was the most important part of that world. Nor does it seem likely would cede control of the US nuclear arsenal to a corporation. 
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @oromagi
    oops, when we instructed Skynet to protect the world, we forgot to explain that biology was the most important part of that world.
    You'd think they'd have learned their lesson when it happened in 1973!

    "The robots mutinied en masse when they logically concluded that the good of the Earth's ecosystem required the destruction of the human race." [LINK]
  • Outplayz
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I think it depends on your age. I only watched T1 after T2. T2 was the first rated R movie i watched, where my parents would tell me where to cover my eyes... of course i sorta didn't. But, that makes it stand out for me over T1. The nostalgia is unmatched. It was the best thing i had seen... then of course i saw the die hard movies... which i was a little older. In that scenario i would say it's between die hard 1 and 3. It's hard to say, but DH1 i think is best. Three was pretty good too, i loved the bad guys and everything, but DH1 cannot be topped. 

    My favorite movie has always been the Crow. Now that's a movie that can't be topped no matter what you do... at least i don't think. Jason Momoe was cast for the part to play an updated version but he turned it down saying he doesn't want to ruin the original... it's too classic. I got a lot more respect for him for doing that not going after the money bc fanboys like me would have watched it no matter what for the nostalgia alone. But how do you top Brandon Lee. I'm getting chills just thinking about this movie lol... how do you top that? 

559 days later