'It was the Jews That Dunit'

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  • Stephen
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    Yes this is what mosque leader Ahmed Bhamji a  preacher  claimed in a hate filled rant.

    At what was by all accounts supposed to have been a "Love Aotearoa [NZ],  Hate Racism" rally this muslim preacher said;

    "I won't mince my words, I stand here and say I have a very , very string suspicion that there is some group behind him [ Brenton Tarrant ] and I am not afraid to say, Mossad is behind this". 

    Ahmed Bhamji had shared a platform just the day before with NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who for some strange reason wore hijab,  the oppressive compulsory head covering that Iranian women are casting off  at the cost of imprisonment and torture. She started her speech by thanking Ahmed Bhamji and .... Muhammad. 

    Indeed it seems  then,  according to  Ahmed Bhamji , that muslims praying at mosque at the other end of the world posed a threat to Israel, so they sent in this violent Mossad trained individual to assassinate the congregation. 

    Ahmed Bhamji then ramped up his hate speech by informing everyone that he knew that local "zionist business houses" were also behind him [ Brenton Tarrant the shooter ]


    The apologist will be pleased to know that  Ahmed Bhamji wasn't arrested, warned about his language or even told to move along during this hate filled speech at this "Hate Racism" rally. And I won't ask for any evidence of Ahmed Bhamji's  claims as the apologist will tell me I have taken him and everything he clearly said ( he didn't mince his words see), out of context and I am being "islamophobic" while ignoring the hate and  antisemitism spoken by Ahmed Bhamji .
     
    see Ahmed Bhamji  deliver his hate filled rant here in this 5min video >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVasVStyRMY&t=168s

  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    What are you trying to say with this?
    I would like to know what you aim with this since I can assume but that not really helpful in knowing what you mean. 

    I do like facts as much as a the next guy/gal but would like to know what ought we do about it as well. 
  • Stephen
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    What are you trying to say with this?

    Try reading it. It is quite clear. The story says it all. 
    Don't shoot the messenger simply because you don't like the message. 

    but would like to know what ought we do about it as well. 

    Then start a thread. you could call it, Why is this hate preacher getting away with racist and anti semitic hate speech and what should be done about him?.. But you won't, will you.


    This thread is about  blatantly preaching hate and anti semitism  at a "love rally". 

  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    Try reading it. It is quite clear. The story says it all. 
    Don't shoot the messenger simply because you don't like the message. 
    When you don't put an ought statement after what you have said. You run the risk of your message being used for something you do not like.
    Do you hate Muslims?
    Do you not see this is one person which is not a representative of everything single person following Islam?
    Then start a thread. This one is about a muslim blatantly preaching hate and anti semitism  at a "love rally". 
    What should we do about it? 
    How many people were actually at the rally?
    Has an official for the government made a response to it? 
  • Stephen
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    When you don't put an ought statement after what you have said.

    What statement? Is all I have done is highlight the hateful words that this preacher had spouted at a "love" rally and the accusing finger he points at the local Jewish businesses and Jews in very area he was spouting his hate . This is incitement, this is hate.  

    And have simply highlighted the fact that this man was allowed to point an accusing finger at local resident Jews with no evidence to support his hateful accusations. 


    You run the risk of your message being used for something you do not like.
    I don't think I have "run any risk" .

    Do you think that this preacher of hate was running any risk of his message "being used for something he didn't like". Did he even consider this risk before he pointed his hateful accusing finger at his innocent Jewish neighbours?


    Do you hate Muslims?
    No.   But do not dare to try to turn this hate speech against Jews around on me. It wasn't me accusing local resident Jews of financially supporting the monster Brenton Tarrant  who murdered innocent muslims at prayer.

    Do you not see this is one person which is not a representative of everything single person following Islam?
    Obviously not all muslims.
    But Ahmed Bhamji  is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.

    How many people were actually at the rally?
    Thousands according to this:

    "Taking a stand against racism, the 'Love Aotearoa, Hate Racism' rally was held in Auckland's Aotea Square this afternoon, drawing a crowd of thousands."https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/we-wont-let-happen-again-rally-against-racism-draws-thousands-aotea-square

    But you knew that didn't you?   Yes THOUSANDS attended this rally  "taking a stand AGAINST racism". And there was your man Ahmed Bhamji right in the thick of it spouting hatred. 

    What are the chances do you think  Ahmed Bhamji's hate speech "being used for something he didn't like".
    Or isn't he a real muslim?

    Has an official for the government made a response to it? 
    Not to my knowledge and I doubt they will. Have you raised the issue with anyone, yourself? 

  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    Can you put my name in the receiver? I don't know when I get a message.
    What statement? Is all I have done is highlight the hateful words that this preacher had spouted at a "love" rally and the accusing finger he points at the local Jewish businesses and Jews in very area he was spouting his hate . This is incitement, this is hate.  

    And have simply highlighted the fact that this man was allowed to point an accusing finger at local resident Jews with no evidence to support his hateful accusations. 
    What should Australia do about it? You state what happened but didn't state what Australia should do about it.

    Do you think that this preacher of hate was running any risk of his message "being used for something he didn't like". Did he even consider this risk before he pointed his hateful accusing finger at his innocent Jewish neighbours?
    Do you think he is a representative of Islam or only a specific mosque? 
    No.   But do not dare to try to turn this hate speech against Jews around on me. It wasn't me accusing local resident Jews of financially supporting the monster Brenton Tarrant  who murdered innocent muslims at prayer. 
    So we should silence people who have abhorrent views right?
    But Ahmed Bhamji  is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.
    So are you implying that Australia should stop plat-forming Muslims or something more reasonable as in ask for Ahmed Bhamji to step down?

    Thousands according to this:
    I'll accept that. 
    I'll give a number of less than 10 thousand came to the rally. Now lets see the Muslim population of Austraila. It is 602,200 which means that rally had less than 10% of the Muslim population attending.
    What ought Australia do about less than 10% of the Muslim population? 
    Not to my knowledge and I doubt they will. Have you raised the issue with anyone, yourself? 
    No I don't live in Australia but if you do speak to your city officials or tweet at the leader of your country with this. With enough re-tweets it will demand a response from them then you can shape a better response from this.  

  • Stephen
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    No I don't live in Australia but if you do.

    I don't.   So again stop suggesting  "WE"  should do something. 

    I'll accept that. 
    I'll give a number of less than 10 thousand came to the rally. Now lets see the Muslim population of Austraila. It is 602,200 which means that rally had less than 10% of the Muslim population attending.

    What has that got to do with  Ahmed Bhamji's hate speech "being used for something he didn't like". ?
     And you haven't actually explained to me what it is you mean by "being used for something he/I didn't like"?  Can you give me an example? 

    Do you think he is a representative of Islam or only a specific mosque? 

    Are you just being ignorant on purpose or are you just ignorant?  I have said above already.  Try  to read it, slowly if necessary, here>>

    Ahmed Bhamji  is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.

    So are you implying [.....] ?
    I have implied absolutely nothing, so stop trying to put words into my mouth. It's not working.

    I notice you haven't condemned the racial hatred hate speech by this high profile preacher and undoubtedly a man of influence who is so influential and so high profile that, as the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque",  he was able to share a platform with the  Prime Minister of NZ and able to preach hatred unmolested by any authority. He was able to preach inflammatory words of incitement towards the local Jewish communities. Although it has been reported that the Human Rights Commision have started to air  their opinions, lets see if they also take action, but I doubt it.  Can't go upsetting the "muslim communities" now can we.


    Biggest mosque

    “These conspiracy theories[ spouted by Ahmed Bhamji the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" ] are dangerous lies,” New Zealand Jewish Council spokesperson Juliet Moses told local website Newshub. “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns.”


    Do you think that these vile and unfounded accusations put about by the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" , are dangerous and put the Jewish community at risk, omar2345 ?
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    Any chance of you having me as a receiver? Am I asking too much?
     
    I don't.   So again stop suggesting  "WE"  should do something. 
    I said it twice that is it. Refrained from it from my last response. What should Australia do about it? 
    What has that got to do with  Ahmed Bhamji's hate speech "being used for something he didn't like". ?
    So who do you blame this on? The individual, his Religion or the government?
    And you haven't actually explained to me what it is you mean by "being used for something he/I didn't like"?  Can you give me an example? 
    You stated facts. A supremacist can say yes this affirms my notions and think of it as someone else who agrees with it. A rational person would see this as just stating facts but I think there are more irrational people or people with bad logic than people who follow good logic. 
    Ahmed Bhamji  is a very influential and high profile so don't try to play this down as some lone voice in the wilderness giving his own racialist and hateful opinion. He share a platform with the Prime Minister of the country, for christs' sake! He has also spoken at the largest mosques in New Zealand. So he is not the nobody preacher that you are attempting to paint him.
    So I am guessing Australia should have Ahmed in jail for spreading false information and other charges?
    How do you propose in making that happen and giving a good enough case for him to stay in jail?
    Can't go upsetting the "muslim communities" now can we. 
    So what is this comment? Should Australia attempt to stop Islam or should Australia stop an individual? 
    I condemn what he is saying. Is that okay? 
  • Stephen
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    So who do you blame this on?
    Keeping in mind that this thread is to do with the racial hatred hate speech given by Ahmed Bhamji the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" 


    The individual,
    Yes Ahmed Bhamji. And although there were a few in the crowd who seemed to agree with what this preacher had to say, it was only Ahmed Bhamji speaking inflammatory words of incitement and pointing his finger in the direction of  his jewish neighbours .

    his Religion
    No, Bhamji makes it quite clear "it was Jews that financed" this deranged killer. Not muslims.

    or the government?

    No. I don't think the NZ government caused Ahmed Bhamji to use such inflammatory and inciting language towards his Jewish neighbours.

    So I am guessing Australia should have Ahmed in jail for spreading false information and other charges?
    Guess away. But what do you mean when you say  "the other charges" 

    How do you propose in making that happen and giving a good enough case for him to stay in jail?
    It was your guess, you tell me.

    I condemn what he is saying. Is that okay? 
     I am relieved to hear it. 

    I think there are more irrational people or people with bad logic than people who follow good logic. 
    So the Jewish community have very rational fears when they say :
     Ahmed Bhamji's words extreme "are dangerous lies,” and that  “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" ?


  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    I don't know what  it is you mean.
    Right above where you are typing there is a "recievers" section. Put my name in then there in order for me to be notified on your response to me.
     Keeping in mind that this thread is to do with the racial hatred hate speech given by Ahmed Bhamji the chairman of New Zealand’s “busiest and biggest mosque" 
    So Australia ought to remove Ahmed from his position. Do you want to take it a step further?
    Yes Ahmed Bhamji. And although there were a few in the crowd who seemed to agree with what this preacher had to say, it was only Ahmed Bhamji speaking inflammatory words of incitement and pointing his finger in the direction of  his jewish neighbours .
    I think a better way to put this is to say the followers are only followers because of their leaders. Similar to soldiers. You can't blame a soldier for doing their job when they were told to do something because of a general or cut the head of the snake rather then poke the body. I have a lot of analogies for this for some reason.
    No, Bhamji makes it quite clear "it was Jews that financed" this deranged killer. Not muslims.
    Okay.
    No. I don't think the NZ government caused Ahmed Bhamji to use such inflammatory and inciting language towards his Jewish neighbours.
    Okay.
    Guess away. But what do you mean when you say  "the other charges" 
    Religious hatred, harassment, advocating for violence. Stuff like that. 
    It was your guess, you tell me.
    Make sure to have video evidence of every single hate-filled rant he had so the evidence is so damning he has to be put into jail. 
    I am relieved to hear it. 
    Why would I be on DA when I could be furthering the goals of him if I believed what he said?
    So the Jewish community have very rational fears when they say :
     Ahmed Bhamji's words extreme "are dangerous lies,” and that  “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" ?
    What are you trying to say with this? 
  • Stephen
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    a "recievers" section
    I sometimes forget.

    So Australia ought to remove Ahmed from his position. Do you want to take it a step further?
     I haven't said that. And this hate filled inflammatory anti semitic rant took place in New Zealand. 
    I will say that the NZ government should give the muslim community the chance to remove him,  but, you see, he may not have broken any muslim sharia law, so I don't see that happening, do you? 

     And muslims are taught from birth to hate Jews and christians and told not to take them for allies /friends. I am not saying that ALL muslims take notice of this vile intolerant command but it appears that our man Ahmed Bhamji takes his quran serious and at its word. Quran 51- You, who havebelieved, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another.

    He no doubt will go onto being invited onto every radio talk show in NZ and maybe he will even be offered a regular spot as a regular or guest host as happened in the UK with ex jailbird muslim and self confessed terrorist recruiter Maajid Nawaz. 
     
    But that said,  I am sure NZ simply has to have laws against hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language likely to cause breaches of the peace.

    So the  laws are, I immagine, are already in place dealing with hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language and so no need to introduce new ones. But the New Zealand government must have lost them. I suppose they will scramble to find them out and dust them off if ever a white Christian decides  spout inflammatory language of incitement towards muslims or anyone else not Christian. We will see.

    So the Jewish community have very rational fears when they say :
     Ahmed Bhamji's words extreme "are dangerous lies,” and that  “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns" ?
    What are you trying to say with this? 

    I am saying is it likely that the Jewish community are correct when that say:
     " Bhamji's words  "are dangerous lies,” and that  “They put the Jewish community at risk, at a time of heightened security concerns"   Or are their fears Irrational?

    Yes or no. It is not a difficult question and it is not a trick question.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Stephen
    I sometimes forget.

    I am active on this site enough to know when you have replied but others who are not so active would not see an orange circle on the blue bell and leave the site to do something else.
     I haven't said that
    I asked a question. I used a question to see what you thought about something.
    I will say that the NZ government should give the muslim community the chance to remove him,  but, you see, he may not have broken any muslim sharia law, so I don't see that happening, do you?  
    Okay. Allow the Muslim community to cut all ties from him is a good idea because the Australian government steps in. Sharia Law doubt they would base it on that. They would base it on bad publicity. If he has bad enough publicity then it would be difficult to advertise Islam with him which Muslims do not want. 
    And muslims are taught from birth to hate Jews and christians and told not to take them for allies /friends. I am not saying that ALL muslims take notice of this vile intolerant command but it appears that our man Ahmed Bhamji takes his quran serious and at its word. 
    A better phrasing would be: Children brought up with Islam tend to read their holy book. This can be filled with a lot of hatred to other Religions. I wouldn't consider all Muslims intolerable but the ones who take their holy book literally or advocate for such actions. An example of a person who takes it literally is Ahmed Bhamji. Muslim's should remove any connection from him in order to be removed from bad publicity and not to be framed as a fundamentalist. Even then I wouldn't blame you since if this is all you have been hearing in your life I doubt you would acknowledge the flaws of your thinking. This still does not mean you won't be punished by law but by understanding how you got there we can find a solution to the problem. 
    I think I summed up your point better. 
    He no doubt go onto being invited onto every radio talk show in NZ and maybe he will even be offered a regular spot as regular or guest host as happened in the UK with ex jailbird muslim and self confessed terrorist recruiter Maajid Nawaz. 
    Spam the places he will appear on in order to make sure they are known of what he has done if you care. Maajid Nawaz terrorist recruiter? I need evidence. I know he has really bad views but never heard of that one.
    But that said,  I am sure NZ simply has to have laws against hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language likely to cause breaches of the peace.  
    So if enough people bring this up he will be tried and guilty if enough evidence is shown.
    So  laws are, I immagine, are already in place dealing with hate speech and racial incitement and inflammatory language and so no need to introduce new ones, but the New Zealand must have lost them. I suppose they will get them out and dust them off if ever a white Christian decides  spout inflammatory language of incitement towards muslims or anyone else not Christian. We will see.
    Okay. 
  • Stephen
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    Okay. Allow the Muslim community to cut all ties from him is a good idea
    Allow? Who can stop them only other muslims..
    . Sharia Law doubt they would base it on that.
    That is what I have said. He wouldn't have broken any islamic law so it is my guess they won't ask him to leave his position. 

    They would base it on bad publicity. If he has bad enough publicity then it would be difficult to advertise Islam with him which Muslims do not want. 
    Does the Islamic community really actually care what the kuffar thinks of them? I don't think so. 

     I wouldn't consider all Muslims intolerable
    I think you mean intolerant. And neither would I and I haven't suggested that ALL muslims are intolerant.

    but the ones who take their holy book literally or advocate for such actions. An example of a person who takes it literally is Ahmed Bhamji. 

    I am so happy you have said this. And my question here is , why is it that no one has told Ahmed Bhamji that he shouldn't take the Quran literally?  Why,  come to that, has no one told  the muslim terrorist of Islamic State that the Qur'an is not to be taken  literally?  Could you show me an example of say an Imam from Iran or Saudi Arabia telling the billion+ muslims of world that the quran is  not be taken literally? 

    I am still looking for the condemnation of Ahmed Bhamji's racist inflammatory anti semitic rant from the muslim community, but not yet found anything.

     Maajid Nawaz terrorist recruiter? I need evidence. I know he has really bad views but never heard of that one.
    Yes, I thought you would. Do you actually believe I would say something I was unable to support even if it was true? 

    Indeed, ex convict Nawaz has now fully nestled himself into a lucrative place on LBC radio London and has a regular slot on sky news The Pledge. This is what happens when they say "I am reformed and I read the quran different know and am "de-radicalised". So all is forgive then,  he is all true blue British now.

    Ex jailbird Nawaz gave a speech addressing the Oxford Union, where he unabashedly claimed and proudly proclaimed that he had  "recruited army officers from around the world mainly Pakistan to overthrow western governments and instigate military coups".

    In this clip he seems to have forgotten what he told these Oxford students just a few weeks before this phone -in.

    So if enough people bring this up he will be tried and guilty if enough evidence is shown.
    I doubt it. There is more chance that those complaining  will be told to shut up and go away and stop being racist bigots and if they don't go away, they will be arrested for spreading hate, fear, and racial hatred and accused of being "islamophobic".

    Nawaz also did a anti semitic rant too
    Maajid Nawaz's speech at al-Quds day in London

    he was rewarded with a lucrative job as mentioned above.


  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Stephen
    That is what I have said. He wouldn't have broken any islamic law so it is my guess they won't ask him to leave his position. 
    religion of peace and love obviously.