Strange Angel on CBS

Author: Polytheist-Witch ,

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  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Polytheist-Witch
    Has anyone watched this? It's about Jack Parsons, who was a rocket scientist and involved in Thelema. Never heard of him and I guess the show really dives into the ritual work of the OTO. He has ties to L Ron Hubbard too? Hubbard married his ex and they stole money from him. Crazy.
  • ethang5
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    ethang5
    What is Thelema? And OTO?

    Is it like a documentary?

350 days later

  • oromagi
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    oromagi

    Thanks.

    DEFINITIONS

    A gun is a "weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise." [1]

    A ban is "an official or legal prohibition." [2]

    Stupid is "having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense." [3]

    RESOLUTION:  Gun Bans are Stupid

    PRO's resolution lacks any kind of specifics- no nations or law-making bodies are specified.  No specific laws or restrictions are identified.  CON is forced to conclude that PRO opposes all and every prohibition on firearms no matter the place or context or situation.

    Therefore, PRO must show that all gun bans demonstrate poor intelligence no matter the situation.

    CON's CASE:

    If Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the principal architect of 9/11 were to request that a shipment of 50 AK-47s be delivered to his cell in Guantanamo, PRO must either demonstrate how it would be unintelligent for camp commander US Navy Capt. John Fisher to deny Mohammed's request (since such denial would be an official prohibition and therefore, a ban) or admit at least some gun bans are sensible in some contexts and situations. 

    PRO has cast the resolution far too wide and must now defend, retract, or limit the argument.

    PRO's CASE:

    PRO claims gun bans increase violent crimes and uses.  PRO cites one piece of evidence and that evidence is false.

    'Since California activated their gun ban, the number of gun-violence crimes have gone steadily up and now they average at 12% above the rest of the nation! "
    PRO is citing an opinion piece written by the NRA.  PRO does not specify which weapons ban but the article indicates 1989: [4]

    "After its 1989 ban, California's murder rate increased every year for five years, 26% overall. "
    The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 came into effect on Jan 1, 1990.  [5]



  • oromagi
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    oromagi


    Year    Population    Murder
    1990    29,760,021    3,553
    1991    30,380,000    3,859
    1992    30,867,000    3,921
    1993    31,211,000    4,096
    1994    31,431,000    3,703
    1995    31,589,000    3,531 [6]

    So, the overall homicide numbers went up until 1994 but the murder rate acutally held steady as early as 1992:

    Year    Population    Murder
    1990    29,760,021    11.9
    1991    30,380,000    12.7
    1992    30,867,000    12.7
    1993    31,211,000    13.1
    1994    31,431,000    11.8
    1995    31,589,000    11.2 [6]

    The NRA and PRO claim that CA murder rate increased 26% in the 5 years after passing assault weapons legislation. But FBI records show the murder rate per 100,000 actually declined by 1% in 1994 from the 1990 rate.  The NRA stops reporting after 5 years because CA homicide rates declined significantly over the next couple of decades, down by more than half.  Then the NRA claims:

    "California banned more guns in January 2000 and murder has since averaged 12% higher than the national rate." [4]







  • oromagi
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    But the FBI reports say that the murder rate has continued to decline and is now down around the national average. [7]

    Year     CA     US
    1996:   9.1    7.4
    2000:   6.1    5.5
    2005:   6.5    5.6
    2010:   4.8    4.8
    2014:   4.4    4.4 [7]

    By 2010, CA's murder rate and the US murder rate were the same according to the FBI.  By 2014, when the NRA made this claim, CA & US murder rates were still the same.   Both of the NRA's claims deliberately distort the State of California's successes.  Since California banned assault rifles 30 years ago, the murder rate has dropped by almost two-thirds.

    Let's note that the NRA as source of crime data has been shown to be deliberately misleading in pursuit of self-interest.  CON requests that we disregard the NRA as a reliable source of information.

    According to the FBI, PRO's claim:

    "the number of gun-violence crimes have gone steadily up and now they average at 12% above the rest of the nation!"
    is the opposite of the truth.  PRO's claim that guns reduce crime is now unsupported.

    PRO argues that guns are only tools.  The point seems to be that many tools are potentially dangerous but aren't banned. 

    • CON counters that screwdrivers and hammers are tools with much utility beyond their potential for violence.  What utility does a gun offer except for violence?
    • CON counters that screwdrivers and hammers are designed to maximize constructive functions.  An AK-47's primary advantage over other guns is that it goes a long time without jamming:
    "The AK-47 was designed to be a simple, reliable fully automatic rifle that could be manufactured quickly and cheaply, using mass production methods that were state of the art in the Soviet Union during the late 1940s. The AK-47 uses a long stroke gas system that is generally associated with great reliability in adverse conditions.  The large gas piston, generous clearances between moving parts, and tapered cartridge case design allow the gun to endure large amounts of foreign matter and fouling without failing to cycle."


  • oromagi
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    AK-47's are designed to fire many times without needing cleaning- which ought not to be significant for hunting or self-defense but could be a decisive factor in a fire-fight- a military engagement, for example, or mass murdering while police try to stop you.

    • In any case, many tools are commonly and appropriately banned under many circumstances.  A pressure-cooker bomb is only a tool but pressure-cooker bombs appropriately banned from a wide variety of venues- airplanes, subways, kindergarten classrooms, etc. 
    • Since pressure-cooker bombs and AK-47's are designed for the same utility (maximum human carnage) what logic bans pressure-cookers but not AK-47's in the same venues and circumstances?
    The nation’s total violent crime rate peaked in 1991. Since then, through 2012, it has decreased 49%, to a 42-year low, including a 52% drop in the nation’s murder rate, to a 49-year low--perhaps the lowest point in American history."

    PRO argues that increases in gun ownership have reduced crime rate since 1991.
    • PRO offers





  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    --> @Loverof12343
    His argument was leaked
  • oromagi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Rough day.  My browser crashed strangely and it was the only way I could find to save my work w/ links.  Now just I was sitting down to reconstruct I accidentally posted an irrelevant poem to the gun debate.  Sorry for the mis-posting.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    --> @oromagi
    IT's ok, we all have those days where we are off