Western Values

Author: TheRealNihilist ,

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  • TheRealNihilist
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    What are they?
    When did they start?
    How does the west share those values?

    Evidence supporting your claim with an explanation would be appreciated. 
  • Outplayz
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    This is actually a really hard question. As i child, i was always a rebel... and to me freedom was attractive. However, i don't see true freedom. I see controlled freedom with lies to keep that control. Lies such as suffer humbly and you will get to paradise. Lies that you have nothing but at least you have the "potential" to get to the 1%. 

    Humans are humans. They will suffer in silence to get to heaven (sad). They will suffer their circumstance in hope of one day making it (even though it's not true). People need to wake up in my opinion (which is a loaded statement alone). I like a quote from the Bible... "The meek shall inherit the earth" ... i think that's actually coming. We could be in the beginning of people realizing they at least deserve freedom. What happens then i'm sitting back and watching. 

    So freedom is what i think of when i hear western values, but we need another enlightenment to understand what that means. It's in the works currently. It will eventually happen bc we will continue to evolve. It's just a matter of time... So it's not 'when' - the real question is 'how' it will happen.  

    Edit: I should mention i don't translate that Bible quote how the Bible does... i see it as "everyone" inheriting the earth instead of few. If we don't kill ourselves off... i think that's going to happen. 
  • TheRealNihilist
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    Hey hey hey. I don't see how you addressed my questions. Doesn't matter too much. So basically yes the 1% for everyone is unachievable and people tell lies in order for the harsh realities of the world to not impact them as much. In a sense it does help in a short term but the truth in the long term if a person can cope enough to be alive for that is the better option. I guess another enlightenment would be okay but if they have a better fix to poverty instead of unions and universal healthcare then I am all for it. 

  • Outplayz
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    people tell lies in order for the harsh realities of the world to not impact them as much.
    Do you think they tell those lies bc it helps people ... or do you think they tell those lies for a more selfish reason? 

    We will get to values bc for me the baseline is freedom. How/what should are values be to realize this? That's why i thought it's a hard question. I don't know what American (i'll go with this western nation) values are... it's too mixed. I'm just saying, shouldn't are values be towards something we founded this country on? American's are known to be loyal, patriotic, etc... and many other things, but i think it's bc we value the idea of freedom. 
  • Mopac
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    Western values seem to be...

    Individualism rather than personhood. While personhood has much to do with someone and how they relate to others, individualism takes the self distinct from others as being the focus. Personhood implies relationship. A husband implies a wife. A mother implies a child. An individual is by themselves.

    A lawyer like engineer type view of things rather than an experiential view of things. You know a tree by chopping it down, counting its rings, examining its bark, etc. Contrast this with knowing a tree by planting it, taking care of it, watching it grow, living in round it, passing it to your children.

    Truth is looked at as something that is seen through proper education and logical reasoning. Believing the right things. Compare this with the idea that Truth is seen through purifying the intellect of influences and intentions that pervert it.


    The west is mostly influenced by the Latin speaking church that eventually broke away from Orthodox Christianity and became Roman Catholicism. Scholasticism developed in the west, and when the protestant reformation caused many in the west to ditch the corrupt Roman church, it kept many of these western values that hhad a great to do with corrupting the latin church. No longer having the latin church limiting it, the protestant world became increasingly secular until the logical conclusion of its pride and over reliance on reason led to the outright denail of God, an embrace of nihilism and its less obvious forms. Having abandoned absolute truth, and embracing relativism, the individualism of the west gave birth to materialism and anarchy. The legalistic and engineering aspect gave rise to state enforced anarchy(Communism!), fascism, and consumerism. Truth being relativistic and individualistic and based on ones own reasoning became whatever one can get away with.



    Western Christianity, being over a thousand years seperated from Orthodoxy has devolved into an anarchistic and unenlightened mess. Having failed to deliever what only true Orthodox Christianity can, the west has ditched God, whored after false gods even under the pretense of atheism, and has become thoroughly pagan.

     
    We are fastly approaching a time, and indeed may already be there in some places in the west, where someone who maintains their sanity in this mad world will be seen as crazy for not joining everyone else in their insanity.




  • bsh1
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    I think the phrase "Western Values" is typically associated with classic liberalism. Freedom, autonomy, and individualism are typically central. "Western Values" is situated in dialogic opposition to "Oriental Values" and "Indigenous Values." The former typically implicates consensus, cooperation, and community/family, and the latter typically implicates spirituality, reciprocity, and oneness (with nature). "Western Values" can be understood as promoting a kind of free-for-all, with ad hoc associations forming and dissolving dynamically as desired. "Oriental Values" are, conversely, best conceived of as promoting a hierarchical system, and "Indigenous Values" are best understood as promoting a cyclical system which is almost karmic in the way it constructs relationships. These are, of course, stereotypes and therefore are only true in a very loose sense. Trying to offer a definitive definition of any of these terms is an entirely fruitless task, as any such effort would need to be not only exhaustive but unambiguous.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Mopac
    Individualism rather than personhood. While personhood has much to do with someone and how they relate to others, individualism takes the self distinct from others as being the focus. Personhood implies relationship. A husband implies a wife. A mother implies a child. An individual is by themselves.
    Don't understand. You can be both whatever your definition of personhood is and still be an individual. Help provide for the family and choose a job you like and you haven't pointed out where this is the case.
    A lawyer like engineer type view of things rather than an experiential view of things. You know a tree by chopping it down, counting its rings, examining its bark, etc. Contrast this with knowing a tree by planting it, taking care of it, watching it grow, living in round it, passing it to your children
    Don't see how this has anything to do with western values.
    Truth is looked at as something that is seen through proper education and logical reasoning. Believing the right things. Compare this with the idea that Truth is seen through purifying the intellect of influences and intentions that pervert it.
    Didn't say how this is a western values so I assuming. Is everyone not in west liars, illogical and believe in the wrong things?
    The west is mostly influenced by the Latin speaking church that eventually broke away from Orthodox Christianity and became Roman Catholicism. Scholasticism developed in the west, and when the protestant reformation caused many in the west to ditch the corrupt Roman church, it kept many of these western values that hhad a great to do with corrupting the latin church. No longer having the latin church limiting it, the protestant world became increasingly secular until the logical conclusion of its pride and over reliance on reason led to the outright denail of God, an embrace of nihilism and its less obvious forms. Having abandoned absolute truth, and embracing relativism, the individualism of the west gave birth to materialism and anarchy. The legalistic and engineering aspect gave rise to state enforced anarchy(Communism!), fascism, and consumerism. Truth being relativistic and individualistic and based on ones own reasoning became whatever one can get away with.
    Not talking about western values instead you are giving me a history lesson of something I didn't ask for.
    Western Christianity, being over a thousand years seperated from Orthodoxy has devolved into an anarchistic and unenlightened mess. Having failed to deliever what only true Orthodox Christianity can, the west has ditched God, whored after false gods even under the pretense of atheism, and has become thoroughly pagan.
    No sign of western values.
    We are fastly approaching a time, and indeed may already be there in some places in the west, where someone who maintains their sanity in this mad world will be seen as crazy for not joining everyone else in their insanity.
    Most of this was a rant. I can't believe I read that. 
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @bsh1
    I think the phrase "Western Values" is typically associated with classic liberalism. Freedom, autonomy, and individualism are typically central. 
    Would it still be a western values if every single person in the west does not hold the same values?
    Trying to offer a definitive definition of any of these terms is an entirely fruitless task, as any such effort would need to be not only exhaustive but unambiguous.
    Would do you agree western values don't actually exist but are only values shared by some of the people in the west? Wouldn't it be best called Judeo-Christian values? Mostly Christian values because I don't know what Judaism did to be part of those values and even Christianity is borrowed from I think Persians which was borrowed from Aristotle. A lot of borrowing going on. That is what I am sure about.

  • mustardness
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    --> @bsh1
    I think the phrase "Western Values" is typically associated with classic liberalism. Freedom, autonomy, and individualism are typically central.
    Stero-typical John Wayne cowboy or any maverick ex Newton, Einstein, Fuller { dare to be naive } , Jeff Bezos{?}, Steve Jobs etc

    "Oriental Values" ...family.....
    Politically or culturally  corrected as "Asian Values" ex...'go with the flow'.....karma associated oneness with cosmos....


    and "Indigenous Values." latter typically implicates spirituality, reciprocity, and oneness (with nature).....karma....

    And you stated "karma" more directly related to nature { environment that sustains us }.

    Well stated Bsh1.

     
  • bsh1
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    Would it still be a western values if every single person in the west does not hold the same values?
    Yes. As I said, the terms are stereotypes. They have a grain of truth to them, but lack nuance and qualification. They are useful schemas in understanding some important differences in culture, but their explanatory value is limited by their generality, imprecision, and non-exhaustive nature.
  • Mopac
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    I'm just reporting what I see. Obviously, lacking the perspective of an outsider looking in, you would not see what I am seeing. Though an entire book can be wrote on the subject, I did a pretty bare outline of how these values are things inherited from the Roman mentality and the Latin church that western civilization descends from. If you want to argue fine, but I think intelligent debate comes from getting on the same page through inquisitiveness rather than imply contradicting whatever the other person says.