Proposed immigration policy

Author: Alec ,

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 25
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EEO-QIEwB1LmUlH1haJh3n495fqmxXAQ1Phrlj3YKf0/edit.  Like it?  Don't like it?  Tell what you think below.

  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 8,371
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    If you are going to exclude immigrants from socialist countries, you won't have many applicants.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Greyparrot
    Regardless of your political affiliation, if you meet the remaining requirements, you can live and work in the US, but you can't vote unless you wait your turn.  Many socialist countries have right wing refugees, like Cuba.  However, if we have 2 million right wing immigrants and 6 million left wing immigrants per year, multiply that by 10 years, and the liberals got a huge 10% advantage over the conservatives, unless you only allow an equal number of both parties to vote.
  • disgusted
    disgusted avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 4,959
    2
    3
    3
    disgusted avatar
    disgusted
    --> @Alec
    You fail maths as well. Oh dear.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @disgusted
    How?
  • TheRealNihilist
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    Debates: 44
    Forum posts: 4,896
    4
    8
    11
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    TheRealNihilist
    --> @Alec
    Can’t be convicted of any felony under US law in the past unless proven innocent in all convicted felony/felonies.  No exception to minors
    Okay so don't be a criminal. How about convicted criminals who were convicted for lesser crimes like loitering or robbery?
    So is the convicted criminal bared from coming into the USA forever or do you have a time frame of when they are allowed in? 
    Must have a steady, consistent job that benefits America and doesn’t take jobs from people already here.  Can’t be on welfare. Exception to minors
    Since a job is created due to a demand in the market. There isn't a thing in a capitalist system of jobs that do not benefit the structure already present. Meaning what you said here is nonsense. 
    Must know English fluently.  If you don’t know it, you would be legally required to learn it in courses that you pay for.  If you can’t afford it, you would have to take out a loan. No exception to minors
    ? So basically you are against government funded programs for people to speak English. Why?
    Can’t upset the political balance in the country.  We don’t need to import a bunch of liberals or conservatives.  We need a balance, otherwise this country would become liberal.  No exception to minors.
    How are you going to base this upon? The standards of their country or the standards in the United States?
    Freedom of political beliefs should be supported, not disencouraged.
    So what if my political belief is to murder people? Should that be supported?

  • Snoopy
    Snoopy avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,323
    2
    1
    4
    Snoopy avatar
    Snoopy


    Alec: Must have a steady, consistent job that benefits America and doesn’t take jobs from people already here. 


    Omar: Since a job is created due to a demand in the market. There isn't a thing in a capitalist system of jobs that do not benefit the structure already present. Meaning what you said here is nonsense.

    Assuming a demand that does not rise relative to supply, the previous status quo may be underbid and essentially have their job taken whilst the sector in question will reap a lower compensation per capita. Does that sound about right?
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 8,371
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Snoopy
    You cannot create a job without capital, even if you are only working for yourself, you need materials and tools and a place to work.


    Failed Socialist countries have a disproportionate demand to capital ratio, and thus have few jobs available, even though people are literally DYING to work.

  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @TheRealNihilist
    How about convicted criminals who were convicted for lesser crimes like loitering or robbery?
    They wouldn't get in unless their crime would have only amounted in a fine as punishment.

    So is the convicted criminal bared from coming into the USA forever or do you have a time frame of when they are allowed in? 
    Depends on the crime.  If they commit a misdemeanor by US standards, then they would be allowed in to the country as soon as their punishment is done by country of origin's standards (assuming they meet all other requirements).  If they commit a felony by US standards, then they aren't allowed in the country.

    There isn't a thing in a capitalist system of jobs that do not benefit the structure already present.
    For companies, it's good, but for the America worker, it's not.  We need an immigration system that benefits everyone.

    So basically you are against government funded programs for people to speak English. Why?
    I don't want the immigrants to be a burden to the gov(government).  If the gov gives them money, they need to pay the loan back.  Interest rate would be low.

    How are you going to base this upon? The standards of their country or the standards in the United States?
    I would base it upon American standards.  All immigrants would have to take a political ideology quiz that is around 100 questions long in order to see where they are.

    Freedom of political beliefs should be supported, not disencouraged.
    So what if my political belief is to murder people? Should that be supported?
    I didn't say this, Supadudz did.
  • TheRealNihilist
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    Debates: 44
    Forum posts: 4,896
    4
    8
    11
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    TheRealNihilist
    --> @Alec
    They wouldn't get in unless their crime would have only amounted in a fine as punishment.
    How about if Mexico convicts a person which the US would not? Would they be allowed in?
    Depends on the crime.  If they commit a misdemeanor by US standards, then they would be allowed in to the country as soon as their punishment is done by country of origin's standards (assuming they meet all other requirements).  If they commit a felony by US standards, then they aren't allowed in the country.
    From this link ___ they had felony under: burglary and resisting arrest. Would that be your standard as well?
    For companies, it's good, but for the America worker, it's not.  We need an immigration system that benefits everyone.
    Why isn't some immigration not good for everyone in the US as in the ones that you don't want in your hypothetical USA?
    I don't want the immigrants to be a burden to the gov(government).  If the gov gives them money, they need to pay the loan back.  Interest rate would be low.
    The government is the burden of the American people. You pay taxes or will do to maintain roads, fund military and pay for social security. Anyone using those would be a burden. This can be the disabled who require social security to fund their needs. 
    Would the interest rates be a regulation you add in?
    I would base it upon American standards.  All immigrants would have to take a political ideology quiz that is around 100 questions long in order to see where they are.
    How are you going to test the accuracy of the quiz?
    Freedom of political beliefs should be supported, not disencouraged.
    So what if my political belief is to murder people? Should that be supported?
    I didn't say this, Supadudz did.
    You still added that into the docs file. So do you agree with SupaDudz? 
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @TheRealNihilist
    How about if Mexico convicts a person which the US would not? Would they be allowed in?
    If they meet all the requirements, yes.

    From this link ___ they had felony under: burglary and resisting arrest. Would that be your standard as well?
    Since it's a felony, if they did it in Mexico, they wouldn't be allowed in the US.  We are a nation of immigrants, not a nation of criminals.

    Why isn't some immigration not good for everyone in the US as in the ones that you don't want in your hypothetical USA?

    If we need more high skilled jobs, then we can take in more high skilled jobs.  If your a doctor, if your an engineer, if your an architect, America needs you.  Come with this simple 4 step process, maybe a simple 2 step process if you can settle for a greencard.  Even if your coming to pick lettuce, since virtually no American does that, come on in.  However, if your going to come to work at McDonalds or some job that Americans already have and jobs that won't get improved by you doing it, those are jobs that threaten American workers and any low skilled job that Americans already have, immigrants shouldn't be doing.  They should be doing to jobs that either aren't taken, or the jobs that are taken but would be better done by the immigrant.  If they are a better engineer, doctor, architect, etc then they can get a greencard if they meet the 1st 2 requirements.

    The government is the burden of the American people. You pay taxes or will do to maintain roads, fund military and pay for social security.
    Maintaining roads are cheap, I now want military cost to go down gradually, about 5% a year for 10 years, and I want to decrease social security payments gradually by increasing the retirement age by 180 days per year.  These taxes benefit Americans.  Immigrants can still get loans from the gov, but they should pay them back with interest.

    Would the interest rates be a regulation you add in?
    It would be a regulation for immigrants.  The rate wouldn't be that high, I'm aiming for .5% annually more then inflation.  This way, they have some incentive to pay it off without breaking the bank on their end.

    How are you going to test the accuracy of the quiz?
    I hope they are honest about their answers.  If it turns out that too many immigrants are lying to get votes and to vote democrat, then no immigrant would be allowed to vote, but their children can.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 18
    Forum posts: 268
    0
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @Alec
    The country would be swamped with workers. Go to Bangladesh people work a whole day for $2 dollars. Those people would come here, depress wages and increase housing costs and put strain on social resources. It's bad policy for American workers.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Death23
    Those people would come here, depress wages and increase housing costs and put strain on social resources.
    We have a minimum wage that would be paid to them, therefore not cutting wages for workers.  If welfare is abolished (which I also want) then they won't strain our resources.  Housing costs can be cancelled out by them making more houses, by turning houses into apartment buildings, and by augmenting apartment buildings to increase their size, expanding our cities and increasing GDP, therefore counteracting the increase in housing prices that would exist from this.

  • TheRealNihilist
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    Debates: 44
    Forum posts: 4,896
    4
    8
    11
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    TheRealNihilist
    Since it's a felony, if they did it in Mexico, they wouldn't be allowed in the US.  We are a nation of immigrants, not a nation of criminals.
    But in an earlier statement you said this:
    If they commit a misdemeanor by US standards, then they would be allowed in to the country as soon as their punishment is done by country of origin's standards (assuming they meet all other requirements).
    From this link ___ it states that 1 year in jail or a certain sum of money is considered a misdemeanor. So you would allow people who have been in jail for less than a year or had to pay off money.
    Is there a road for people to enter the USA after committing a felony? If not why?
    However, if your going to come to work at McDonalds or some job that Americans already have and jobs that won't get improved by you doing it, those are jobs that threaten American workers and any low skilled job that Americans already have, immigrants shouldn't be doing.  
    I already have the numbers but just wondering if you have the same.
    Do you know the number as in 1 2 3 not a percentage of people unemployed?
    Then do you know how many jobs are open not as a percentage or fraction in numbers?
    If they are a better engineer, doctor, architect, etc then they can get a greencard if they meet the 1st 2 requirements.
    This is the case already I am sure. People who are in line for getting a job go through a process which the employer finds the best employee. They aren't going to pick a lesser qualified person because they are losing out on their skills so this thing you said is already in place and you are pretty much parroting what is already going on. 
    It would be a regulation for immigrants.  The rate wouldn't be that high, I'm aiming for .5% annually more then inflation.  This way, they have some incentive to pay it off without breaking the bank on their end.
    How about doing it for every American? 
    I hope they are honest about their answers.  If it turns out that too many immigrants are lying to get votes and to vote democrat, then no immigrant would be allowed to vote, but their children can.
    Hope doesn't equal success. I can hope to not die by jumping into lava but I will. So do you have anything more than that?
    Are you against the 15th amendment?


  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 18
    Forum posts: 268
    0
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @Alec
    We have a minimum wage that would be paid to them, therefore not cutting wages for workers.
    And for those jobs that pay more than minimum wage ? I live by San Francisco and drive cabs and work on houses. I know what's going to happen if we bring in more workers. Prices for services like mine go down. Prices low enough already for those services. We want people here who have useful and costly educations who can reduce prices for expensive services, esp. healthcare.

  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @spacetime
    Only allow 100,000 arrivals per year. Select each arrival on the basis of English-speaking ability, capacity for gainful employment, understanding of American history & civic principles, and willingness to integrate instead of self-segregating.

    The US accepts about 5 million immigrants per year.  100,000 is a huge cut back.  

    Utilize a combination of surveillance technology and physical barriers to ensure airtight border security. Immediately deport all border crossers.
    What's wrong with a pathway to citizenship?

    Ban the practice of applying for entry at the border. Require all applications to be filed through a U.S. embassy.
    Why?

    Ban the practice of applying for entry at the border. Require all applications to be filed through a U.S. embassy.
    Why?

    Don't actively seek to deport illegal immigrants already residing within the country, but don't provide them any pathway to a legal status either.
    What do they get then?
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Death23
    And for those jobs that pay more than minimum wage ?
    Since these tend to be more skilled jobs, I would rather have a skilled immigrant be a teacher, or a doctor, or a lawyer, then to have a less skilled native born person do the job.

     I live by San Francisco and drive cabs and work on houses.
    I don't know if being a taxi driver pays min wage or not, but I think it does, although I might be wrong on this.  As for your other job, your labor costs won't go down.  It would mean there are more people helping you with the job, so you can construct more houses and can make more money then if the immigration rate gets slowed down.  Requirement 2 of my immigration plan states,

    "Must have a steady, consistent job that benefits America and doesn’t take jobs from people already here.".

    As long as they don't take your job, you'll be fine.  They would help you with your job of building houses instead of taking your job.  Construction companies need more workers.

    We want people here who have useful and costly educations who can reduce prices for expensive services, esp. healthcare.
    They can come here too.  If your a doctor, engineer, or lawyer, you would be encouraged to come to the US for work if you come here legally.  The process should be what the google doc says.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 18
    Forum posts: 268
    0
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @Alec
    The policy is good for people who consume a lot of services, esp. if you aren't working (i.e. the rich, esp. non-working rich) The policy has little impact on those who consume little services, and esp. bad if you're working (i.e. the poor, esp. the working poor). Sometimes there are bona fide labor shortages and/or compelling needs for particular types of workers (e.g. tech workers, health care workers) but the objective necessity of the particular skills has zero impact. I don't see any interest being furthered by this policy other than benefiting the rich at the expense of workers. If you cared about Americans generally then you would consider that in America workers and the poor by far outnumber the rich and the non-working rich.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Death23
    The policy is good for people who consume a lot of services, esp. if you aren't working
    Most people are working.  The rich work pretty hard.  If you think owning a business is an easy way to get money, you should try it.

    The policy has little impact on those who consume little services, and esp. bad if you're working
    Why is it bad for the common worker?  If they don't threaten your job, they can keep their jobs?

    Sometimes there are bona fide labor shortages and/or compelling needs for particular types of workers (e.g. tech workers, health care workers) but the objective necessity of the particular skills has zero impact.
    The immigrants are willing to take the jobs that we need them to take, even if they are low skilled.  Low skilled ones can pick lettuce or can work at a construction site.  They aren't taking jobs.

    I don't see any interest being furthered by this policy other than benefiting the rich at the expense of workers.
    It benefits the rich and doesn't impact the average worker negatively.  If anything, the average worker gets more help getting projects done, so the worker (if they are a construction worker for example) can complete houses quicker because they have an extra teammate.  Both the rich and the poor benefit from letting people into the country under my immigration plan in the link above.


  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 18
    Forum posts: 268
    0
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @Alec
    What jobs do we need immigrants to take? How can you tell whether or not we need immigrants to take a particular job? What's the test? There is no test. It's just let them all in and have them take as many jobs as possible.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Death23
    Low skilled jobs can be taken by almost anybody.  If the jobs are high skilled jobs, like a doctor then we should let the immigrants in if they would do a better job.  Better doctors means better service.  If it's low skilled, then there are plenty of companies that are always hiring.  You said that you were a cab driver and a carpenter I think.  Your employer won't replace you with an immigrant unless you a bad employee, which I don't think you are.  Construction companies are pretty much always looking to hire more workers to complete more construction projects to sell.  They won't turn you down for an immigrant.  They would accept both of you.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 18
    Forum posts: 268
    0
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @Alec
    You're not talking about the impact on pay or the lack of necessity for the positions. Workers don't benefit by increasing the labor supply. Things like this:

    the worker (if they are a construction worker for example) can complete houses quicker because they have an extra teammate
    don't make any sense. The worker has less hours to work. Less work is bad because it's less money. The money is going to the immigrant. That's not good for that worker. That's bad for that worker. He wants the job. He doesn't want someone else to do the job instead and get the money for the work.
  • Alec
    Alec avatar
    Debates: 42
    Forum posts: 2,474
    5
    7
    11
    Alec avatar
    Alec
    --> @Death23
    The immigrants would require more housing, so this provides more work for American construction workers to build them a house and to get paid for their labor in the for of building more houses that get sold to a bank that then get mortgaged out to immigrants that help keep the economy moving.  More immigrants means more houses to build and more people to drive, which means more work for Americans.

    I think overall, immigration doesn't affect the worker already here.  While they have less work per house to do since an immigrant would be helping them out, they would be working on more houses since immigrants need a place to stay and with that, would bring more work and wages.  This basically cancels out in a 1:1 ratio.  It is good for the immigrant, since they come for a better life(one that has to be earned), it helps business by providing them with more labor and it helps this country by increasing our GDP.  The worker doesn't get affected economically.
  • Zeus4ever
    Zeus4ever avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 14
    0
    0
    1
    Zeus4ever avatar
    Zeus4ever
    --> @Alec
    Not wasting time and effort signing into Google to read some idiotic report.

    IMMIGRATION ?  easy...file for it...fill out every line accurately...pay the fees ?  and wait for a response

    Don't like it ?  OK then FCK OFF...simple as that.

    All illegals must exit the Country by ?   this timeline must be established...say 6 months max...

    All workplaces and housing that facilitates the ILLEGAL will be fined 5,000 a day plus all court expenses
    to rid the parasite invaders from US ground. 

    Every person must carry a PROOF of CITIZENSHIP ID.. which has a retinal scan, finger print, and DNA 
    information.. another way to validate Citizenship is by fingerprint and retina scan by ICE or Police..

    Immigrants that are educationally inept, financially and mentally incompetent, and or carrying disease will
    be refused entry.

    America is not the world's toilet...sadly there are millions of truly stupid people in America now..eventually
    they will die off..there is no need to add to the population marginal runaway imbeciles of failed Countries
    many of which are very small, about the size of Arkansas !  they must fix themselves not run away and
    contaminate Legal American Society...which itself is 50 % broken...

    Just look at the Democrats...these pathetic fools with meaningless titles work for themselves..they are 
    more like petty terrorists determined to undermine American values not support them...

    Now more than ever is the time t clean out the corrupt Politicians and the Illegals from American soil

    No file ?  then absolutely NO ENTRY...ever under any circumstance....
  • spacetime
    spacetime avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 189
    0
    1
    2
    spacetime avatar
    spacetime
    I seem to have accidentally deleted my earlier post while trying to edit it... I'll re-create it here.


    My preferred immigration policy:
      • Only allow 100,000 arrivals per year. Select each arrival on the basis of English-speaking ability, capacity for gainful employment, understanding of American history & civic principles, and willingness to integrate instead of self-segregating.
      • Utilize a combination of surveillance technology and physical barriers to ensure airtight border security. Immediately deport all border crossers.
      • Ban the practice of applying for entry at the border. Require all applications to be filed through a U.S. embassy.
      • Don't actively seek to deport illegal immigrants already residing within the country, but don't provide them any pathway to a legal status either.