The afterlife in various religions.

Author: keithprosser ,

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keithprosser
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A popular - if facile - argument is that religion is poplular because people are scared of dying.
A counter argument is that the grand-daddy of the Abahamic faiths - Judaism - had no notion of posthumous existence.   The most familiar expression of that is in Matthew 22:23 "The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection..."

AFAICT belief in an afterlife remains widespread but not universal amongst Jews today.

Early Judaic writing is sometimes ambiguous as to whether death is or is not permanent oblivion, but there is scant support or the idea of posthumous reward in heaven or punishment in hell.  All - rich and poor, good and evil all have the same fate of 'sheol'.

Ecclesiastes 9:2 "2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not."

The idea of an afterlife more familiar from a Christian perspective appear in later writings, almostcertainly the result of syncretism from Greek ideas.  An example is Daniel 12 “Many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, others to reproaches, to everlasting abhorrence” — implies that resurrection will be followed by a day of judgment. Those judged favorably will live forever and those judged to be wicked will be punished."

Ancient mesopotamian legends also say almost nothing about an afterlife.   There was no heaven for dead babylonians to look forward to! 
in contrast, the Egyptians took great pains to ensure the afterlife was comfortable - at least for the rich and powerful.   But the Jews had little time for Egyptian religious notions!

In hinduism, re-incarnation would seem to be a palliative for death's sting, but a pious hindu does not seek to re-incarnate.   Life is a punishment, and the goal of Hiduism is the peace and oblivion of nirvana.

In Christianity,the idea has developed to the point where earthly life is reduced to a mere testing ground.   In Christianity, there is a strong tradition that suffering is good, because it leads to posthumous rewards.   Presumably that has roots in Greek ideas about the grossness of flesh and the fact that early Christians tended to be poor - hence their inescapable suffering at the hands of grasping landlords and corrupt priests could presented as a positive.

All in all, it is overly simplistic to suppose religion exists because people are scared to dying.

 





 

 





Mopac
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Suffering needlessly is actually not a virtue for us. What is a virtue is to subdue the passions.

Our battle with the flesh has a great deal more to do with purifying the heart. Though many monks have tortured their bodies to subdue the passions, it is all in vain if it doesn't profit one towards loving others and being sincere.

Eternal life for us is theosis, or unity with God. This is salvation. In that, all flesh, all of creation is passing away, but The Word of God, The Truth is eternal.

So how is it that to know The One True God and the one sent Jesus Christ is eternal life?

Through the incarnation, all of creation was brought back to God, and so is alive in The Truth. The universe has effectively been deified in the fleshly nature of the hypostasis of The Son.

The Truth sets you free!

And when the light of Truth shines through everything, those who made their identity in falsehood abide in death, and we believe in eternal death. As it is written "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." So does the one who abides in death die eternally. Those who have their identity in Christ Jesus have eternal life, as The Truth abides forever.







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--> @keithprosser
Religion exists because God exists.
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Religion exists because God exists.
May be the gods do exist, but religions are man made.

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--> @keithprosser
Probably.
Mopac
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May be the gods do exist, but religions are man made.
There is a difference between God and gods.
The Ultimate Reality is God, and God absolutely exists.

The fact that we are created beings operating in a world of creation makes it to where religion is not only necessary, but unavoidable in the enlightening of man, no matter how much man may desire to semantically sidestep around this.



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Your steadfastness is admirable in its way, albeit it renders you somewhat predictable!

You post is noted.


Mopac
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It would only be the assumption that I wasn't telling the truth that would make this an issue!

Imagine for a moment I was telling the truth. If I am telling the truth, we are in a very dark place right now at Debateart.com. 

I have no allies here. I am an object of scorn and mockery. I am viewed as an anomaly, not even worth consideration. 







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I like you mopac. I appreciate your contributions to the forum. I just don't agree with everything you believe.
disgusted
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That's probably because all you do is repeat ad nauseum your indoctrinated dogma.
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but unavoidable in the enlightening of man
Then how did cavemen come up with it?

Polytheist-Witch
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Good thing no one needs your permission to be religious, bigot. 

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Just a note --

you wrote 
 the grand-daddy of the Abahamic faiths - Judaism - had no notion of posthumous existence.   The most familiar expression of that is in Matthew 22:23 "The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection..."

First, using the gospels to make any argument about Judaism is problematic, but second, you cite the gospels which refer to the Sadducees (Tzeduki) position. But the Pharisees (Prushim) who were around at the same time had a very strong belief in a posthumous existence. So any general statement about a singular "Judaism" as establishing a certain position would be flawed.
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I would not quibble that Judaism is without its own theological disputes!

My feeling is that the Sadduccees position reflects an older tradition than the Pharisees.

My purpose was that Christians (most DArters have a Christian heritage) are used to the idea of a posthumous heaven and hell and personal relationship wth God.   The Matthew verse conveniently shows it was not always that way.   The oldest writings imply that YHWH rewarded obedience and punished disobediene in earthly terms in this life, by such means as military conquest or defeat by enemies and operated at the tribal level, not the individual level.  

It'smy view that history has yoked two very differnt conceptions of god.  The development of how the Judaeo-Christian god was imagined over the millennia is a huge topic in is own right (it needs a bloody big book to do it justice!), but incidental to the gist of my OP which is that there is more to religion than the fear of death.    

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ZEUS says ..all you fools are brainwashed and know nothing of the GODS let alone DEATH...

When was the last time YOU DIED and decided to stay alive ?   exactly...YOU KNOW NOTHING

Just act like you do with totally idiotic, obsolete,  and oppressive Bible/Quran/Torah VOMIT


All of you are actors on a stage without a script, your fishing for words and ideas that have ZERO
basis or facts to support them.  the stuff of the imbecile.

The GOOD NEWS = YOU WILL DROP DEAD....and so will all the others who are guessing their way
through life and wasting it with truly absurd Abrahamic God garbage and Dogma. 

Life for the Jesus - Allah - Jew God slaves is all about SUFFERING and PUNISHMENT these fools
are drowning in it and will do anything to drag as many people they can to drown and rot with them.


So caught up in guessing what the afterlife holds for them and all the other born sinning losers they
are clueless in living in the NOW....OK go die...and go to your Heaven or Hell just get off this planet

Now more than ever those who need freedom and open mindedness must let the Jesus - Allah - Jew
God zombies GO...with Zeus there is nothing to think about, nothing to drown in, no Church, no Mosque,
No Temple, other than spectacular ruins worth visiting in Greece, italy, +++  enjoy the culture, food
mythology, and LIFE..while the Abrahamic Jesus - Allah - Jew GOD parasites obsess with death and
destruction.   

with ZEUS...nothing is taken seriously...LIFE is GOOD...explore and discover...with Jesus - Allah - Jew
God you will experience severe depression - anger - guilt - frustration - sickness and disease...just look
at those who follow them, they are obsessed with them and are seriously disturbed...really DISTURBED !

extreme caution YOU must take when around any Jesus - Allah - Jew God sheeple drone....the last thing 
these people do is enjoy life...the are the most MISERABLE on EARTH....just look around...

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--> @disgusted
but unavoidable in the enlightening of man
@disgusted Then how did cavemen come up with it?


 Do you have evidence for that claim? Did "cavemen " have a religion? Did they worship gods?
 
Or do we file this under as yet another ridiculous and outrageous unsupported claim of yours along with these below?

@disgusted "we  have  evolved by exactly the same process as every other animal that has ever existed on this planet"?  
No proof offered by the claimant.

@disgusted  "the word god did not exist before the middle ages"

No proof offered by the claimant.

@disgusted "We all exist in the same reality"

No proof offered by the claimant