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@Polytheist-Witch
To say there is no evidence thst Jesus existed would be to be in denial of an awful lot of evidence.
We are, after all, talking about the single most influential person to ever walk the Earth.
The Ten Commandments...........
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@Mopac
There is no physical evidence he existed, period. If you need evidence you have no faith. He isn't, his followers who killed or converted the world were.
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@Polytheist-Witch
For you to say there is no "physical evidence", you would have to deny all the physical effects that Jesus has had on the world. Effects that are plainly visible. How do you explain this giant thousand year old cathedral? That sure looks like physical evidence to me!
How do you explain me? Clearly, Jesus has had a physical effect on me. It has been 2,000 years since Jesus became incarnate as a man through the blessed theotokos and ever virgin Mary. We are still talking about it. Lives are changed by it. Thing are moving.
Physics is the study of causality. There is plenty of physical evidence for Jesus. Don't kid yourself.
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@Mopac
Jesus has done nothing. There is no physical evidence he existed. You and keith are both morons on that.
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@Mopac
People build things?How do you explain this giant thousand year old cathedral?
How do you explain me?
Product of sexual reproduction by two human parents?
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@Mopac
There's at least two words in there that you don't know how to use.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@ludofl3x
Clearly we all have been physically effected by Christ.
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@Mopac
No WE haven't liar.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Yet we are having this conversation because of the physical effects of Jesus.
These are physical effects of Jesus that can be witnessed by all.
And that is by definition PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
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@Mopac
Did Moses know that he was being used to help prepare the church of Jesus Christ?The Word of God is Jesus Christ. That being the case, Jesus Chriist was with Moses. The Law was given to Moses, because "Blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God", and the purpose of The Law was to guide Israel into purity of heart.
Sorry but that is absolute claptrap and bullshit; and on many levels. this is beside the fact that you simply have nothing to support that belief. You, as all believers do, have simply made that shite up on the hoof.
I am not interested in whether you accept what I say or not , I honestly don't care, it is what you have to say that interests me. As long as it is not your usual perpetual mantra.Well then for the benefit of others who may be interested in whether I accept what you just said or not, I of course think it is a load of neo-gnostic pagan nonsense.
And I would not expect any other response from some who has been told to turn to a page, read what is on that page only then to have what you have read with your own eyes explained and interpreted for you. If you believe that what I have pointed out to you is "neo-gnostic pagan nonsense" then this would surely make the Christ and his beliefs pagan also. It is the Christ of the NT that clearly references what is going on above our heads and this was how he was able to call out the false roman appointed priests with statements such as this;
"And n the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times"?
Here he was telling the Roman appointed false priest if they were able to understand what was going on above their heads they would know it was his time to rule not just has high priest, but as king of the jews also. . And many of priests did understand the signs of the times or the age and became Jesus' "secret disciples" for fear that they may be killed.
There are many references to astronomy and astrology written by the gospelers themselves. Are you saying they were practicing paganism also? As I keep saying, you simply do not understand your own fkn scriptures, you are a lazy individual who has to be led like sheep with your teacher as your shepherd who has continuously guided you to passages of his choosing while leading you away and avoiding the more problematic, complicated and complex verses that he doesn't understand either.
Nonsense that if you hold on to will be a stumbling block to knowing Jesus Christ.
You said it.
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@Mopac
If "physical effects" are measured by the presence of a conversation, then is Harry Potter just as real as people have conversations because of the writing about him? On the daily, I have more conversations about Harry than about Jesus. By the way, to my understanding, effects are not the same as evidence. Physical evidence requires the tangible to be presented, not the effects considered. Effects allow for inference and can be used to establish circumstantial evidence.
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@rosends
If you want to get right down to it, all of creation. Is physical evidence of The Word of God.
But yes, I would go so far to say that the church itself is physical evidence of Jesus.
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@Stephen
Believe what you want to believe. I don't care for the ramblings of haughty heretics.
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@Mopac
You are being stupid on purpose or are really unable to understand what physical evidence is.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I'm probably just stupid.
Bet you feel proud lording yourself over and mocking stupid people.
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@Mopac
You wrote "I would go so far to say that the church itself is physical evidence of Jesus."
I would ask about extending this logically --
Would the existence of Jediism be physical evidence of Obi Wan Kenobi?
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@rosends
It would have to at LEAST be evidence of the physical effect Obi Wan has had on all of us.
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@rosends
@ludofl3x
Jediism is not the body of Obi Wan Kenobi.
But even if you all have been physically effected by Obi Wan Kenobi, it would be silly to say that you haven't been more effected by Jesus Christ.
In 2000 years, maybe the most hardcore of history nerds will know of Obi Wan Kenobi, if anyone at all. 2000 years later the common person is at least familiar with the name of Jesus.
How many countless lives have forsaken the passions in pursuit of godliness for Christ's sake? How many lives dedicated to loving others more than the. self? Nobody does for Obi Wan Kenobi.
For Jesus said, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."
For Jesus also said "..the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
And to this day, Christ still works in this world, a light shining in the darkness, though the darkness does not comprehend it.
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@Mopac
You wrote, "Jediism is not the body of Obi Wan Kenobi."
I have no idea what this means. He died as a sacrifice to help others. He taught tenets of being one with an all powerful force that runs through us all. He came back to life and appeared in visions to guide his followers. Same with Annakin and Yoda, so there is a trinity of holy spirits.
You wrote "But even if you all have been physically effected by Obi Wan Kenobi, it would be silly to say that you haven't been more effected by Jesus Christ."
Does the amount of effect really matter when you are simply making a point about existence? In my daily experience, there is very little if any effect of Jesus. The 5 minutes I spend here, and if I have to write the year (and you want to think that Jesus was born in year 0 or 1 or whatever). But the use of the calendar also means I am affected by Norse mythology and Roman mythology, and I more often remember that today is Wodin's Day that it is 2019.
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@rosends
It is The Word of God that gave you your form, and The Holy Spirit breathed into you that gives you your life. These being united in essence with the Holy unoriginate Father, who is blessed now and forever and unto ages of ages amen.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and you should know, and should be able to say, "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
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@Mopac
you wrote, "It is The Word of God that gave you your form, and The Holy Spirit breathed into you that gives you your life. These being united in essence with the Holy unoriginate Father, who is blessed now and forever and unto ages of ages amen."
That is a statement of your belief. I don't share that belief. I could say to you "It is God who gave you your form, and breathed life into you. Amen" Would that affect your beliefs? I hope and expect not.
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@rosends
I of course could agree with what you are saying there, but you intentionally leave out the eternal word of God knowing that I will tell you this is the Jesus Christ I speak of.
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@Mopac
I leave out your concept of "the eternal word of God." I have my own understanding of it, and it isn't equated with a particular figure.
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@rosends
We understand The Word of God as being The Truth. The Holy Spirit as The Spirit of Truth.
And truly, something doesn't exist unless it exists in Truth.
We understand our relationship with God as being in Spirit and Truth.
That is, our relationship with God is through The Most Perfect Image of The The Truth, God's Word, which we call The Son, who we understand as being begotten before all of creation. Along with The Holy Spirit, that proceeds from The Father, again, before all creation, through The Son, and dwelling in us by cooperation.
We say that God manifests Himself in creation through His Word and Spirit, and so that is how we know God.
Creation itself being the flesh of the incarnate Word of God. That flesh being taken from The Virgin Mary(creation). So God is with us, nearer than our breath, filling all things.
And so we say that God is revealed to us in Trinity, not that God is divided or worse yet, 3 Gods, but 1 God who is revealed in these 3 hypostases or persons. 1 Ousa.
And truly, something doesn't exist unless it exists in Truth.
We understand our relationship with God as being in Spirit and Truth.
That is, our relationship with God is through The Most Perfect Image of The The Truth, God's Word, which we call The Son, who we understand as being begotten before all of creation. Along with The Holy Spirit, that proceeds from The Father, again, before all creation, through The Son, and dwelling in us by cooperation.
We say that God manifests Himself in creation through His Word and Spirit, and so that is how we know God.
Creation itself being the flesh of the incarnate Word of God. That flesh being taken from The Virgin Mary(creation). So God is with us, nearer than our breath, filling all things.
And so we say that God is revealed to us in Trinity, not that God is divided or worse yet, 3 Gods, but 1 God who is revealed in these 3 hypostases or persons. 1 Ousa.