Group debate on Religion

Author: Dr.Franklin ,

Topic's posts

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  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    The Debate Topic

    Did The Great Flood and Noah's Ark happen?

    Pro Team
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    2.
    3.



    Con Team
    1.
    2.
    3.




    First come first serve, Teams make argument on a shared word or google doc ad post em here


    Structure of the Debate

    R1-Argument
    R2-Rebuttals
    R3-Defense
    R4-Closing thoughts(You can counter-rebuttal defenses if you want)

  • ludofl3x
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    ludofl3x
    Why not just have a Noah's Ark topic and present your evidence or argument? 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @ludofl3x
    Because group debates are more fun
  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    I will be the first to join Pro!

    Pro's Team

    1.Dr Franklin
    2.
    3.

    Con's Team
    1.
    2.
    3.

  • ludofl3x
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    ludofl3x
    I find them rigid and boring, like doing homework. If you want a conversation about it, I'm here for that! 
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    Polytheist-Witch
    The atheists here are trolls who insult people. They will not do a formal debate. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Alec?
  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Easy win. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @TheRealNihilist
    thx?
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    address these questions when you debate, or now if you prefer

    the noah story is literal just because the bible says so, and God can do anything?

    when miracles occur, i believe there is evidence for it. with the story of noah, it's not just the lack of evidence, but evidence exists that actively discredits the story. 

    if the story of noah occurred within recent history or thousands of years, how are there so many cultures who look like they evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, when supposedly they were all wiped out recently?

    how did all the fresh water fish and life survive when all the water combined with the ocean?

    how did kangaroos and island animals get to the ark? 

    why isn't there any fossils of the mass casualties of life on earth?

    why wasn't there any imbreeding with only one of each animal?

    how did they fit so many animals on one boat?

    why doesn't our genetic history show we came from a family from the middle east? they can trace our genes like that, so itd be evident if it was true
  • n8nrgmi
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    n8nrgmi
    the idea that there's a literal noah story is a heresy that is based on idolatry. placing the bible above God's truth
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    1.Evidence?
    2.Natural landfills
    3.Land Bridges
    4.There is
    5.There was,The Bible was fine with incest for a little
    6.Big boat and they had space
    7.Evidence it happens in the Middle East
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    where is the evidence of mass casualties of all the dead animals? 

    i'll start with that one. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    you blow my mind and it's contemptible at how much of a heretic you are 

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    fossils are buried underneath the ground

  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    why is there no evidence of these fossils, when there's ample evidence of all kinds of other mass extinction fossils and such?
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    there is
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    1. link to me some examples of the fossils. you can't, by the way, but i'd enjoy a laugh as you try or find an excuse as to why you can't 

    2. why aren't those mass casualties and the global flood accepted as factual events and accepted by the scientific community? is it some sort of far fetched conspiracy? that's usually what nuts like you say when scientists don't accept their bullshit 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    The fossils are underground
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    are you mentally challenged? 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    lol
  • disgusted
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    disgusted
    The fossils are underground
    Along with the Starship Euripides.

  • n8nrgmi
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    n8nrgmi

    this link is full of examples of all the holes in the story of noah.... 

    i particularly liked this person's response 

    Just SOME of the more serious problems include:
    • A handful of people somehow used stone-age tools to build a large wooden ship in which to cram potentially MILLIONS of animals, along with their many specific dietary and other requirements for an entire YEAR. That much cargo would have sunk the ship immediately. Not only that, but even with today’s advanced tools and engineering it would be impossible to build such a large wooden ship without it immediately breaking apart in rough flood waters.
    • Most animals would have had to travel IMMENSE distances to get to the ark, including many like termites, snails, sloths, koalas and penguins that have limited mobility, or that can only tolerate a narrow range of environmental conditions, or that have highly specialized diets.
    • Supposedly there was a single, 18” window in the ark, which would have been entirely inadequate to provide ventilation, resulting in the quick suffocation of all the animals.
    • ALL the many diseases and parasites specific to each species would have had to be carried by at least one of each animal. Tens of thousands of diseases affect humans alone. I wonder which of Noah’s family members carried all the venereal diseases exclusive to humans....
    • For nearly all existing fossils to have been created by the flood, right before the rain started falling there had to have been an average of over 2,000 vertebrate species—ranging in size from tiny shrews to massive dinosaurs—for EVERY ACRE of land on the planet. That’s not even counting the more than 90% of species that are invertebrates.
    • If the rain came from a vapor canopy, it would have had to be superheated. If it came from ice falling from orbit, it would have become superheated upon entering the atmosphere. Add to that the water coming from the “fountains of the deep,” as the Bible describes it, which from even just a mile down would be boiling hot, and there’s easily enough heat to have vaporized the oceans and destroyed virtually all life on Earth.
    • The seismic activity pulling the continents apart, forcing up mountain ranges, and causing nearly all the world’s volcanoes to erupt at the same time would have poisoned the atmosphere, generated enough heat to vaporize the oceans, and once again destroyed virtually all life on Earth.



  • n8nrgmi
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    • The amount of sedimentation that would need to have been mixed into the water to account for all the sedimentary layers being laid down at once would kill virtually all marine life. And most of the remaining life would have died from the radical changes in water salinity.
    • After the flood, the water covering the entire Earth’s surface would have had to go somewhere, but there is no mechanism for getting rid of anywhere near that much water.
    • After spending a year in cramped quarters without exercise, the animals would have had to travel up to many thousands of miles across often inhospitable terrain and vast oceans to reach their natural habitats. This includes all the animals that move extremely slowly or can only survive in limited environments.
    • Almost no land plants or their seeds can survive immersion in water for a year, so after the flood the land would have been barren, providing no food or habitats for the newly released animals.
    • And just eight stone-age humans would have had to repopulate their former lands across the world, reviving all the lost languages, writing, religions, professions, technologies and other unique societal developments of their former cultures, without showing any interruptions in their historical records, nor mentioning anything about a global flood AT ALL. And those eight people would have had to reproduce so incredibly rapidly that in just 150 years (fewer than eight generations) they would have had enough people to build Stonehenge, the pyramids and numerous cities mentioned in the Bible, as well as populate all of Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Indus Valley, China, and the Americas with MILLIONS of people. All this while experiencing war, disease and global famine during a migration across the entire planet. Even using a global growth rate TWICE as fast as the most rapid ever recorded in human history, there would be fewer than 5,000 people in the entire world in those 150 years, which is nowhere near the MILLIONS of people required to match even the most conservative historical estimates.
    The realization that the ark described in the Bible would be orders of magnitude too small to fit millions of species and their supplies—even if only young, small specimens were brought on board—has caused many creationists to conclude that new species can evolve after all...at least up to a point. They define the biblical “kind” at the genus or even family level in an attempt to bring the number of species on board the ark from millions down into the thousands. The idea is that there was a single cat kind, a single antelope kind, a single beetle kind, a single two-legged carnivorous dinosaur kind, and so on, and that AFTER leaving the ark they all rapidly evolved into multiple species to account for the tens of millions of species seen both in the fossil record and alive today.
    But for that to work, all the surviving animals would need to have evolved at a MASSIVELY accelerated rate right after the flood. Just to give one example, the basic “cat kind” would have had to evolve into lions, tigers, leopards, snow leopards, cheetahs, caracals, mountain lions, wildcats, lynxes, bobcats, jaguars, jaguarundis, ocelots, servals, saber-toothed cats, domestic cats, and the rest of the 13 cat genera, 40 cat species and hundreds of subspecies...and do it quickly enough to show up as mummified remains, artwork and written historical records all within a few hundred years of the flood. Ironically, that pace of evolution is FAR faster than evolutionary theory predicts.
    Not only that, but before splitting into multiple species, each “kind” would have first had to breed up to thousands of groups to then send to all their new environments, some of which were many thousands of miles away. Only THEN could they have evolved into the tens of millions of species that exist today and in the fossil record. And all this supercharged evolution would have had to happen within a few hundred years...only to then abruptly slow WAY down to the pace we see today. So why isn’t there any historical or other evidence of tens of millions of animal groups suddenly appearing, migrating all over the globe, and then temporarily evolving at an incredible rate into a huge variety of new species? Clearly there are some serious problems with this “limited evolution” creationism.
    So clearly the Noah’s flood story is just a myth.


  • disgusted
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    @witchypoo

    trolls who insult people.
    bwuahahahahaha, seriously bwuahahahahahaha, what a newt.