Misconcepciones

Author: RoderickSpode ,

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  • RoderickSpode
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    1. God is formed in the image of man.

    The funny part of this statement is that it's at times suggested that if there is a god, he wouldn't have human traits, or bother with communicating with a mere human on an individual basis. The problem with this of course is that it's a preconceived notion of how a god would be. It's still a very human
    idea that may have it's roots in the idea that people in power or are famous generally don't associate with the common man.

    Another way to look at it would be, perhaps man being made in God's image is why we possess some of God's traits that actually originate from him.

    2. Christians are afraid of death.

    Well, some are, and some are not. Some atheists are, and some not. I guess the idea in some cases might be that it's a manhood issue. A bravado thing. It's a terrible argument because accepting provision for eternal life is no less cowardly than accepting provision given to us by law enforcement, the military, etc. Unless one really thinks that isolationists who hide out in a cabin in Idaho ready to attack anyone(s) including the law are braver than those residing within civilian law are braver. And even if we concede that they are braver, is that really an intelligent approach?


    3. If God existed he would make everything crystal clear to where there would be no need for a Bible, or the Bible would be completely understood the same by everyone.


    This is particularly interesting, because we humans tend to value study and hard work in general. For instance, most people given a hypothetical option of either going to school and learn via study, or having a computer chip placed in our brains giving us all the information we need to know, thus the school experience (the prom, playing sports, friendships, etc.) are no longer needed, most people would probably favor going to school and study. We value the ability to learn from experience and personal research, and the right to think for ourselves. Why would this be any different concerning the Bible and the study thereof?




  • disgusted
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    1. God is formed in the image of man.

    The funny part of this statement is that it's at times suggested that if there is a god, he wouldn't have human traits, or bother with communicating with a mere human on an individual basis. The problem with this of course is that it's a preconceived notion of how a god would be. It's still a very human
    idea that may have it's roots in the idea that people in power or are famous generally don't associate with the common man.

    Another way to look at it would be, perhaps man being made in God's image is why we possess some of God's traits that actually originate from him.
    It most definitely has it's roots in the unequivocal fact that men create gods and create them in the image of man..

    2. Christians are afraid of death.

    Well, some are, and some are not. Some atheists are, and some not. I guess the idea in some cases might be that it's a manhood issue. A bravado thing. It's a terrible argument because accepting provision for eternal life is no less cowardly than accepting provision given to us by law enforcement, the military, etc. Unless one really thinks that isolationists who hide out in a cabin in Idaho ready to attack anyone(s) including the law are braver than those residing within civilian law are braver. And even if we concede that they are braver, is that really an intelligent approach?

    It's not a matter of accepting provision for eternal life but an absurd hubris that you are too important to die. you have almost convinced yourself that you won't die and that almost pacifies your fear of death. You refuse to accept that you are an animal that has evolved on this planet and like every other animal that has evolved on this planet you will die. But you think that your god is omnistupid, he created this vast universe just for a place where you can live but he really wants you living somewhere else, oh durr.

    3. If God existed he would make everything crystal clear to where there would be no need for a Bible, or the Bible would be completelunderstood the same by everyone.



    This is particularly interesting, because we humans tend to value study and hard work in general. For instance, most people given a hypothetical option of either going to school and learn via study, or having a computer chip placed in our brains giving us all the information we need to know, thus the school experience (the prom, playing sports, friendships, etc.) are no longer needed, most people would probably favor going to school and study. We value the ability to learn from experience and personal research, and the right to think for ourselves. Why would this be any different concerning the Bible and the study thereof?

    Your god is not capable of conversing coherently and that is because we humans want to think things through except that the incoherent messages from your god are crystal clear about one thing. Do not question, do not think, just obey.
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    1. Humans imagine God is a man. (Even if they do not believe in God)

    2. Humans are afraid of suffering and non-existence. (Death is an instant)

    3. If God existed he/she would be a whole lot cleverer and more sensible than we give him/her credit for.
  • RoderickSpode
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    --> @zedvictor4


    1. Humans imagine God is a man. (Even if they do not believe in God)
    Not all. The theme behind Ietsism is not viewing God in any particular form. Some might call God a force for instance.


    2. Humans are afraid of suffering and non-existence. (Death is an instant)
    Not all. Some people have a fear of, or fear of the idea of eternal life.




    Even some Christians have confessed to having this phobia.




  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @zedvictor4
    1.Maybe because he is called the Father
    2.No, it is a accepted fact
    3.Evidence?
  • Mopac
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    You really need evidence that God is more clever than we give Him credit for?
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Mopac
    ok,you know what?Why dont YOU,mr. Religious dude supply us with the evidence
  • Mopac
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    I challange you right now to create an ant out of nothing.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Mopac
    poopy head that's you!
  • Mopac
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Compared to God, I certainly am a poopy head.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Mopac
    Facts
  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    OK I've done that, what's your point?
  • disgusted
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    Post #2 too much for you? Unable to respond?
  • Stephen
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    1. God is formed in the image of man.

    The funny part of this statement is that it's at times suggested that if there is a god, he wouldn't have human traitsor bother with communicating with a mere human on an individual basis. 

    Not if you look at it from the standpoint of the theist. The gist is that we are made in the image of a god, which wouldn't necessarily include all of his traits and genetic make up and bad habits such as his  despot tendencies.

    Pt 2
    1. God is formed in the image of man.
    The problem with this of course is that it's a preconceived notion of how a god would be. It's still a very human idea that may have it's roots in the idea that people in power or are famous generally don't associate with the common man. 
    Well you have something there in that the larger the population then one cannot talk to everyone at one time and more importantly one cannot listen to all of them at the same time. Look at it as a small firm that has just a handful of employees. I can speak to these people on a one to one basis individually or all in one assembled collective group in a extremely short amount of time giving my instructions of what is to be done and listening to their responses etc etc. 20 years down the line and my little firm is now a company, and I cannot and do not have the time to talk to all of my now thousands of employees all at once so I simply select a charge hand and or a foreman as a go between. I think you get the message. In the case of the so called "gods" they selected rulers as go betweens ;  kings . Do not get these go betweens confused with priests. The function of the priests was to only be there to serve the gods everyday wants and needs and whims, they were nothing more than goffers and had no power outside of the "sacred perimeters of the "gods", there was no such thing and as "religion". But  eventually the priest usurped the Kings & Pharaohs  and took full control of almost everything in ancient times, though some power was regained and the duality of King and priest came into being. As we have here in the UK today. Our Queen serves the dual role of Head of the church of England and Head of the Monarchy.


    Another way to look at it would be, perhaps man being made in God's image is why we possess some of God's traits that actually originate from him.
    And that would all boil down to evidence that a  "god" was the creator of mankind.

    2. Christians are afraid of death.
    I can only assume that this would not be just a trait of Christians. And you have said "some are and some not" and it is a silly point. I am an atheist. and at my age I think about dying more than I did just 10 years ago. I believe one accepts the inevitable the longer one lives and now I am not so bothered. I was frightened of dying when I was younger with a growing family but wasn't when I was a teenager, I actually ' lived for the moment'.

    3. If God existed he would make everything crystal clear to where there would be no need for a Bible, or the Bible would be completely understood the same by everyone.
    [............]We value the ability to learn from experience and personal research,

    Indeed we do or at least some of us do.  But anything that comes along to free up our time is only an advantage.

     and the right to think for ourselves.
    Which sadly enough is now being slowly and stealthily being eroded & wiped from the human brain. Thought crime is now more prevalent in modern times and society now than it was when "god" was telling us what we can't think.



    Why would this be any different concerning the Bible and the study thereof?

    What make you believe it is any different? The bible is a book, I personally believe it to be a book of ancient history and I have studied it as such.
    This is not a victimhood thing from you, is it?

  • disgusted
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    --> @Stephen
    The bible is a book, I personally believe it to be a book of ancient history
    The lie has been put that by a combination of history and science so why do you still believe it?

  • RoderickSpode
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    --> @Stephen

    Not if you look at it from the standpoint of the theist. The gist is that we are made in the image of a god, which wouldn't necessarily include all of his traits and genetic make up and bad habits such as his  despot tendencies.
    Can you give me some examples of his despot tendencies?


    Well you have something there in that the larger the population then one cannot talk to everyone at one time and more importantly one cannot listen
    to all of them at the same time. Look at it as a small firm that has just a handful of employees. I can speak to these people on a one to one basis individually or all in one assembled collective group in a extremely short amount of time giving my instructions of what is to be done and listening to their responses etc
    etc. 20 years down the line and my little firm is now a company, and I cannot and do not have the time to talk to all of my now
    thousands of employees all at once so I simply select a charge hand and or a foreman as a go between. I think you get the message. In the case of the so called "gods" they selected rulers as go betweens ;  kings . Do not get these go betweens confused with priests. The function of the priests
    was to only be there to serve the gods everyday wants and needs and whims, they were nothing more than goffers and had no power outside of the "sacred perimeters of the "gods", there was no such thing and as "religion". But  eventually the priest usurped the Kings & Pharaohs  and took full
    controlof almost everything in ancient times, though some power was regained and the duality of King and priest came into being. As we have here in the UK today. Our Queen serves the dual role of Head of the church of England and Head of the Monarchy.
    Most agnostics and atheists seem to agree that if a being is able to create a universe with life, the creator would more likely be able to communicate with it's creation. I take it a step further by stating that the creator would not only have the ability to communicate with his creation, but to each specific human individually. Would you agree?

  • Outplayz
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    You have no right to tell what is real to others, and they have no right to tell you what is right for you. So, i agree to that extent. But the Christian god to Christians can easily exist... for them. 

    There is no argument. This entire world is the result of imagination. Finite humans don't understand what that means to any kind of infinite being. 
  • RoderickSpode
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    Another way to look at it would be, perhaps man being made in God's image is why we possess some of God's traits that actually originate from him.
    And that would all boil down to evidence that a  "god" was the creator of mankind.

    Sure. But what would you consider evidence?


    2. Christians are afraid of death.

    I can only assume that this would not be just a trait of Christians. And you have said "some are and some not" and it is a silly point. I am an atheist. and at my age I think about dying more than I did just 10 years ago. I believe one accepts the inevitable the longer one lives and now I am not so bothered. I was frightened of dying when I was younger with a growing family but wasn't when I was a teenager, I actually ' lived for the moment'.nd

    I'm not sure what you're having a problem with. All I meant was, some people are afraid of death,
    some aren't whether they are atheist, Christian, or otherwise. And I never claimed that it doesn't change. Some might fear one day, the next day not.


    Indeed we do or at least some of us do.  But anything that comes along to free up our time is only an advantage.

    Sure, pocket calculators, laptops, spell-check,
    grammerly
    , etc. These also aid in Bible study as well. But these conveniences/advantages don't substitute study.


    Which sadly enough is now being slowly and stealthily being eroded & wiped from the human brain. Thought crime is now more prevalent in modern times and society now than it was when "god" was telling us what we can't think.

    Can you expound on that a bit?



    What make you believe it is any different? The bible is a book, I personally believe it to be a book of ancient history and I have studied it as such.
    This is not a victimhood thing from you, is it?
    No. Why would you think that?
  • RoderickSpode
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    --> @Outplayz
    You have no right to tell what is real to others, and they have no right to tell you what is right for you. So,
    i agree to that extent. But the Christian god to Christians can easily exist... for them. 

    There is no argument. This entire world is the result of imagination. Finite humans don't understand what that means to any kind of infinite being. 
    My view is that we can't know anything about God exept what God reveals to us. Whatever that may be.
  • Outplayz
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    God reveals to us.
    I don't think there is any overlord or "god" that reveals anything to us... i think we are all infinite... if you understand what that truly means, you will get that is insane by its own right. We don't need "another" to do anything for us... it is "you" it is "us" that has been the driver the whole time. This life may not make sense to a lot while they play the game... but once your done, if you become eternal, what does this life mean then? I'll help... it means nothing other than the experiences. If those experiences are profound enough... you will have this experience again. I think "we" are the ones in control... I think any message you get... it's "You" giving you the message... You are "infinitely" the driver... Do you know what that means? it's insane. At least people on sites like this may understand me... bc for the most part, people i meet irl, they cannot think from the infinite angle... i've even met people this angle makes uncomfortable even if i'm being logical... to me that says something. We are not suppose to know. We are suppose to play the part we came here to play... if i was wrong, i wouldn't visually see this. But i do. What does that make me? Idk, but i'm happy not everyone is like me... again playing into my speculations. 
  • disgusted
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    Can you give me some examples of his despot tendencies?

    Read the book of fables.


  • RoderickSpode
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    --> @Outplayz
    I don't think there is any overlord or "god" that reveals anything to us...
    i think we are all infinite... if you understand what that truly means, you will get that is insane by its own right. We don't need "another" to do anything for us... it is "you" it is "us" that has been the driver the whole time. This life may not make sense to a lot while they play the game... but once your done, if you become eternal, what does this life mean then? I'll help... it means nothing other than the experiences. If those experiences are profound enough... you will have this experience again. I think "we" are the ones in control... I think any message you get... it's "You" giving you the message... You are "infinitely" the driver... Do you know what that means? it's insane. At least people on sites like this may understand me... bc for the most part, people i meet irl, they cannot think from the infinite angle... i've even met people this angle makes uncomfortable even if i'm being logical... to me that says something. We are not suppose to know. We are suppose to play the part we came here to play... if i was wrong, i wouldn't visually see this. But i do. What does that make me? Idk, but i'm happy not everyone is like me... again playing into my speculations.
    We're not in totall control even now. We're subject to the laws of nature, so we can't do anything we want in an omnipotent fashion. And our free will is confined to our laws. Sometimes our decisions are based on what others demand, so even if it's our decision to follow the rules, it's still the decision of those in authority. And sometimes we have to pay the consequence by causing authority to have to make utlimate decisions for us. So, I don't think anything changes in that respect, say, after we pass on.

  • Outplayz
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    So, I don't think anything changes in that respect, say, after we pass on.
    I'm not too sure what you're saying, but i'll speculate. I'm going to assume "passing on" means we go somewhere i.e. an afterlife. There are many platforms that can be the case, that's why it's important to make sense of the platform and how it applies to you. I can't say where everyone is going after they die if they are in control... they could literally infinitely go anywhere. But what is the platform? If the platform has its own rules, that can correlate to our world and what you're saying... but the platform having rules changes everything. So i don't write too much i'll give you one example... if i die, and my afterlife i become another finite being... why did i come here? If i die and i'm a finite being downloaded into this world, that doesn't make sense if you know me. If i was finite... i would not be in this reality. This reality is a c-rate existence to me. What do i mean? I'm a fantasy / sci-fi / music / in my head type person... so if i was finite... i would only do my favorite realities. Of course, there are different situations, someone forced us into this download, this is the only reality to pick from, etc... all of them, however, have implications too. I've followed them and hit a wall on almost all except for some kind of infinite platform. But if you follow the implications on such a platform, it really comes down to who "you" are to that platform. Infinite means "everything" ... all realities, all possibilities, etc. Therefore, it's hard (essentially impossible) for me to speculate for you.

    In regards to some of the other stuff you wrote, looking at how this reality has an effect on you in any given situation is looking at reality from a finite perspective. Simply just imagine you are infinite looking down on this finite reality... how would 'you' see it? What would you know? etc. You can't fully experience it bc you are finite, but you can understand it through some thought. At least for me, that's when the pieces started fitting.   
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @RoderickSpode
    We're not in totall control even now. We're subject to the laws of nature
    Not your physical body no, but the soul behind the shell is eternal it cannot be destroyed and in many cases the soul is allowed to travel to where it's attention is, or according to it's Karma or debts it owes. When the conscious soul enters form in creation it is then confined to that reality/body and subject to those laws. But here's the fun part, when you leave this particular reality you have far less limitations so the experiences become much greater and more interesting.
    Conscious awareness has to be confined and reduced way down through subtle layers and a physical form to have individual little experiences like looking through a mask. Your true form if you want to call it that is simply your awareness, your soul was stepped down and confined to the mind, the emotions and a physical body and sent into the worlds of duality which is creation. When you leave the physical body you will be present in your spirit form or astral body. This form is far less dense of course but it's still a layer that confines a soul to the astral plane, what many might label heaven depending on which part they inhabit.

    So the fun part is that you can shed that layer too even though the spirit body lasts far longer, then you would be present in the world that corresponds with that body or subtle layer and these layers would be known as multiverses. When the soul sheds all these forms or bodies it then would be in the full true form of the Creator, or first original state of being. So because of these layers and multiverses the soul has endless opportunities and experiences and so the souls desires bind them to certain realities.
    so we can't do anything we want in an omnipotent fashion.
    Not once you commit to a world or a physical body but the true form of the soul is identical to that of God. There is only one conscious reality that pervades all individual conscious experiences.
    And our free will is confined to our laws.
    Once you entered your body through the spiritual gland you confined your reality to certain circumstances that are tailored for you to learn from and so your full potential as a soul was reduced but this is what makes creation and for it to appear there is individuality. Remember you are not just a physical body you are occupying that body, so you have two natures really....what you experience through the physical senses and your actual soul which has no form, no body.
    Sometimes our decisions are based on what others demand, so even if it's our decision to follow the rules, it's still the decision of those in authority. And sometimes we have to pay the consequence by causing authority to have to make utlimate decisions for us. So, I don't think anything changes in that respect, say, after we pass on.
    All you are really doing here is acknowledging our experiences through this world and body, the point Outplayz is making I believe is that this is only a show, a movie and the physical shell is just a mask. The true nature of the soul is unlimited, unrestricted and can virtually be anything it wants in the vast worlds of the Creator. On the other hand because of the laws and consequences that are present whatever we do has an effect, or a counter experience. Whatever we put someone else through we must experience that also. Cause and effect scenario but tied to our experiences. This of course is how the soul plays, it's how it has lives and experiences. Without duality and separation everything is a singular Reality.

  • RoderickSpode
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    --> @Outplayz
    In regards to some of the other stuff you wrote, looking at how this reality has an effect on you in any given situation is looking at reality from a finite perspective. Simply just imagine you are infinite looking down on this finite reality... how would 'you' see it? What would you know? etc. You can't fully experience it bc you are finite, but you can understand it through some thought. At least for me, that's when the pieces started fitting
    One of the incidences that came to mind after pondering your post, was a discussion I had with a former fellow employee who I asked what he thought would happen in his (or the) after life. He responded with what sounded like an experience (or eternal experience) as opposed to a location (heaven, hell, purgatory, etc.). The former (experience) maybe being more an eastern thought than the latter (location) being a more western thought. And his experience would take the form of what he finds pleasure in. So he stated he saw himself sitting in a coffee shop drinking cappucino with his girlfriend, and thi scenario being an eternal bliss. I tend to think life up to that point was fairly good to him, and his thoughts followed a pattern of not only current life existence treating him good (parents, family members, friends, employers, etc.), but (for lack of a better term) eternity would follow suit.




    My theory is that there's a deep down understanding that something that is extremely good is on the horizon in the afterlife. I don't know if you're necessarily saying that, as there seems a lot more in what you're saying than what he said. Maybe even totally different. I don't know if he was an atheist, but certainly not the conventional atheist who would maintain that life completely discontinues in any fashion after passing on. The trick may be to find out when goodness is given unconditionally, and when it needs to be pursued. An obvious example might be a child getting nice, expensive gifts on Christmas and/or birthday as unconditional. When the child gets older, to get that Camero they have to take action (work hard, save money, etc.). Like Frank Sinatra, we may be able to accomplish earthly goals and obtain earthly possessions our way. But it doesn't hurt to get guidance even if it's not unconditionally guaranteed. I think it's absolutely mandatory to get guidance directly from God as far as the afterlife (as well as in our current life). I don't think we can do it our way. One of the problems with blissful experiences is that the vehicles used at times to accomplish than have reverse effects (hallucinogenics, deep meditation, etc.).