No go areas in the UK

Author: keithprosser

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#211
3RU7AL
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@Stephen
As much as you like to play down this menace as mere "tribalism" it is far more than that, It is a clash of cultures and ideologies. 
You are literally describing tribalism.
#212
Stephen
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s Muhammad Ali "incompatible" with the West?

Is Dr. Oz "incompatible" with the West?

Is Dave Chappelle "incompatible" with the West?

Is Casey Kasem "incompatible" with the West?

What about Cat Stevens, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Ellen Burstyn, Mos Def, Omar Epps?
  ISLAM you buffoon ISLAM is incompatible with the west. And if you are going to use that fkn idiot Cat Steven - Yusuf Islam as your yard stick your on a fk road to nowhere. The twat, for reasons known only to himself has now dropped the Islam from his stupid adopted name. I wonder why.


Tell me, WHAT if I do not "believe in TOLERANCE, inalienable HUMAN RIGHTS and FREEDOM OF SPEECH"? 
Look, I avoid using charged language whenever possible, but you're making it pretty difficult here.

The following is a conditional statement.

(IFF) someone advocates intolerance and conditional human rights and censorship (THEN) that person is a FASCIST.

 I see, So ISLAM is fascist. Well how about that, you wouldn't have fkn thought it would you.  Which in turn means MILLIONS of the 1.5 BILLION muslims who follow this fascist dictatorial ideology  are totalitarians too.   And the "conditional statement" would that be covered by your "special pleading" link?

#213
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@Stephen
Christians I've run across in my lifetime believe that the ideal model for their laws is from a "backward ancient law system"
Without trying to impose them on a modern western society.
What about laws making it illegal to open a business on Sundays?

What about anti-drinking laws?

What about laws against abortion?

I'm sure it doesn't seem like an "imposition" if you personally AGREE with a specific law.

Without making it illegal to criticize and offend.
Please explain what specific law(s) you are referring to in this statement.

Without inventing words that mean one could end up in prison such as the left wing libtard favourite of the islam apologist "islamophobia"..
Please explain which laws imprison people for "Islamophobia"?

This religious board is of full of offence, bigotry and criticism of Christians and Christianity and no one seems to give two fks, mention Islam and the shiite hits the fan. 
People spew hate for Atheists and Pagans and Catholics and Christians and Muslims and Buddhists, but I'm pretty certain nobody's been threatened with a prison sentence.
#214
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@Stephen
Is Muhammad Ali "incompatible" with the West?

Is Dr. Oz "incompatible" with the West?

Is Dave Chappelle "incompatible" with the West?

Is Casey Kasem "incompatible" with the West?

What about Cat Stevens, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal, Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Ellen Burstyn, Mos Def, Omar Epps?
  ISLAM you buffoon ISLAM is incompatible with the west.
These are popular celebrities who subscribe to some form of Islam.  Islam is not monolithic, just like Christianity is not monolithic, just like Judaism is not monolithic, even specific camps like Catholics are not monolithic.

Your statement seemed to be suggesting that anyone who subscribed to Muslim beliefs is basically a terrorist (incompatible with "the west").

This list constitutes a counter-factual.

Please (EITHER) modify your original claim (OR) compellingly explain how ALL of these individuals are "incompatible with the west".

And it would have to be ALL because your blanket statement (broad brush) is disproved by even a single exception.
#215
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@Stephen
(IFF) someone advocates intolerance and conditional human rights and censorship (THEN) that person is a FASCIST.
I see, So ISLAM is fascist. Well how about that, you wouldn't have fkn thought it would you. 
Some individual people who subscribe to some forms of Islam are FASCIST.

Exactly like some individual people who subscribe to some forms of Christianity are FASCIST (KKK).

You are really wearing out that BROAD BRRUSH.

Which in turn means MILLIONS of the 1.5 BILLION muslims who follow this fascist dictatorial ideology  are totalitarians too.   
Good job creating mindless terrorist robots out of thin air.

And the "conditional statement" would that be covered by your "special pleading" link?
My conditional statement is necessarily true in all cases (regardless of race creed or gender).

So it's actually the exact opposite of "special pleading".
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#216
keithprosser
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@Stephen
How do you believe we go about telling a muslim father that his daughter will be allowed to wear miniskirt whether he likes it or not and whether it is against his religion of culture or not?
I'm not a framer of laws but it is illegal for a parent to smack their child, so why not a law about over-controlling what a child wears?   You are in error if you think that I think things can be fixed without upsetting anybody.   I fully accept that some hard-line Muslims are not going to accept any compromise, but then again neither will some non-Muslms.  Such a law would not forbid traditional dress but would provide a legal remedy for anyone who is being oppressed by their parent or spouse.


#217
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@3RU7AL
What about laws making it illegal to open a business on Sundays?
I really like it when they mandate reduced hours in a busy city. It guarantees that most people have at least one day of rest, and everyone has the same time off whether they are rich or poor, working different hours. They don't have to negotiate to have time with their friends and family.  Its really not inhibitive at all, just have to account for it.  Most everyone who has to adjust to stores being closed on Sundays will come around to it, and maybe appreciate their community a bit more too.  If I was king stores would be open no more than 6 hours on Sundays, and closed Saturday morning. 

Drinking [Recreational Drug] Laws
As a baseline, drugs should be strictly controlled according to addictiveness.  Cigarettes as they are currently produced are something I think should be banned having no medicinal purpose, and being highly addictive. Up charging or taxing 300% on a highly addictive substance is an exploitive practice.  I question the constitutionality of the federal prohibition on Marijuana.  There's nothing wrong with alcohol, but I can respect the local culture in dry counties.  Technically drinking is a drain on the economy and can be especially detrimental in poor areas.  So is being locked away by the police.  People are still going to drink it.  Don't push people to hard crime, and just be satisfied with the reduction in self inflicted tax.

What about laws against abortion?
 Safe, Legal, Rare.  States should ensure requirements for informing people.  There are legitimate medical reasons in which a patient should decide fully informed by a professional and I don't trust politicians to make the right regulations regarding restrictions.  Roe V Wade, the decision was basically good law but it may have been deliberated improperly going too far in methodically taking responsibility from congress.   Reduction in stature in that light was an inevitability and this has had a cost to our country, politicizing the courts.  The government should have tight standards as far as funding goes.


#218
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@keithprosser
Stephen wrote:
There are what people are calling no go zones here in the UK, but mention this to an apologist for islam and they will call you an outright liar.
  Apparently he is not alone in that view.

Almost a third of British people now believe the myth that there are “no-go zones” where non-Muslims cannot enter, according to a report warning of mounting intolerance.
(The Independent newspaper, oct 2018)
a8588226.html

But no one seems to know where these no-go areas are, depite 'great swaths of the UK that have been taken over by Muslims' (stephen's words).

I have to correct Stephen on one point - I am not an apologist for islam. Yassine is, I am not.  The last thing I want is an Islamic Republic of Britain.

What I am is 'anti-xenophobic'.  Stephen calls  me an apologist because I have tried to counter some of the more egregious fibs told about Islam and Muslims because - due to the unstinting efforts of Stephen and his like minded friends - anti-Muslim feeling is ratcheting up.  I don't fear Britain becoming an Islamic state, but I do fear it becoming an un-liberal and intolerant one.

The prospect of an Islamic Britain is a bogey man - it isn't on the most distant horizon.  But a Britain that has abandoned its traditions of tolerance to appease baseless fears peddled by xenophobes in the near future is very much on the cards.     



It is reasonable to have no go zones in the UK. When there were none the Muslim Arabs bought out the neighbourhood.
#219
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@3RU7AL
 Islam is not monolithic,

Says who? you?  Do not kid yourself. Muslims believe the quran is the true unalterable and last word of Allah and cannot be altered because it is "perfect". Now go look at the definition of monolithic, you clown

What about laws making it illegal to open a business on Sundays?
What about?
What about?
What about?


What about them. We are talking Islamic laws being practiced in the west and foisted on the western world.  Playing whataboutery is not going to excuse it.

Your statement seemed to be suggesting that anyone who subscribed to Muslim beliefs is basically a terrorist (incompatible with "the west").

 Oh stop it FFS! And I think you should have said  -   subscribe to ISLAMIC beliefs.

Please (EITHER) modify your original claim (OR) compellingly explain how ALL of these individuals are "incompatible with the west".

ISLAM you absolute penis! ISLAM is incompatible with the west, so much so that the other buffoon apologist prosser believes "ISLAM"needs to be treated with "tough love" while adding that "ISLAM also  its teeth pulling". BUT HE DOESN'T EVEY SAY WHY!!!!!

Some individual people who subscribe to some forms of Islam are FASCIST.

OH FFS! stop trying to play down the absolute submission that ISLAM demands with death penalties for those who do not adhere to the "perfect word" of allah and follow in the footsteps of the "perfect prophet"..  "Some individuals"  my arse.   MILLIONS of the 1.5BILLION is more closer to the number. And you are sounding just like the other apologist prosser  who loves talking about and  "types and "forms"of ISLAM but tries to avoid  the fact that they -whatever they are- are all fkn ISLAM.  You sound like that other clown who is forever trying to defend the indefensible. 
#220
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@Stephen
ISLAM you [ad hominem]! ISLAM is incompatible with the west...
Please demonstrate logical support for this claim.
#221
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@3RU7AL
ISLAM you [ad hominem]! ISLAM is incompatible with the west...
Please demonstrate logical support for this claim.


Start here>>

Ibn Warraq, Islamic scholar and a leading figure in Qur’anic criticism, was a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry. 

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#222
keithprosser
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@Stephen
Says who? you?  Do not kid yourself. Muslims believe the quran is the true unalterable and last word of Allah and cannot be altered because it is "perfect".
That doesn't mean they agree on how the text is to be interpreted!   Whether Q8:12 (for example) commands muslims to be violent towards infidels depends on which scholars interpretation you take.   Violent or pacifist, they all claim their interpretation is the true one!
 
In Sunni Islam there is no central authority to rule on what is orthodox and what is heretical.  What has happened over the last few decades is that conservative/fundamentalist interpretations of Islam have become increasingly influential.  But unless Allah is real and has plans for us there can be no such thing as a correct interpretation.

It is alleged - with some credibility - that the rise of fundamentalist intrerpretations of Islam is at least partly due to Saudi Arabia using its great oil wealth to export 'wahaabist' Islam, for instance by building and funding mosques, schools and madrasas worldwide.   Or is that sectarian propaganda?  I can't be sure.


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#223
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@Stephen
It is and I happen to agree with you and the muslim parents protesting. My point was and still is, the hypocrisy of the left wing libtards such as prossser. If these were Christian parents protesting, there would be every homosexual in the land ( and prosser) turning out to confront these parents and supporting the teachers.  And there would be accusations of them  being "homophobic" and spitting and in their faces and worse. And I don't doubt for one minute that many of the Christian parents would be arrested charged and imprisoned or fined for "hate crime", which has happened to christians on a few occasions now. And the clear point that these muslim parents have made is that one cannot be a muslim and homosexual, so it is their religious beliefs they are pushing here.
Hang on... I strongly support the teachers on this and I'm sure I've never posted anything to indicate otherwise.  My support and advocacy for islam is all in your head, Stephen.   I'd love it if Muslims gave up Islam and took up rationalist humanism (or the CofE, which is almost the same thing).  But that isn't realistic in any reasonable frame yet social tensions are bad now and likely to deteriorate further.  

The populist right's quick-fix solution is to get rid of Muslims.   Merely halting immigration is of course not sufficient to do that, whether they are truly prepared to take the steps required is open to question. 

I think there is a better way forward than deporting or forcibly sterilsiing a signiicant number of British citizens and that is to encourage Muslims to reject conservative forms of Islam and adopt more progressive forms.


 


#224
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@keithprosser
I think there is a better way forward than deporting or forcibly sterilsiing a signiicant number of British citizens and that is to encourage Muslims to reject conservative forms of Islam and adopt more progressive forms.
How do you not only refrain from discouraging what you call progressive forms of Islam, but actually encourage it outside of faith? 

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#225
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@Snoopy
I'm the boss so I only define policy - it is for others to implement it!

#226
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@Stephen
Ibn Warraq, Islamic scholar and a leading figure in Qur’anic criticism, was a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry. 
Women are inferior under Islamic law; their testimony in a court of law is worth half that of a man; their movement is strictly restricted; they cannot marry a non-Muslim.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Non-Muslims living in Muslim countries have inferior status under Islamic law; they may not testify against a Muslim. In Saudi Arabia, following a tradition of Muhammed who said “Two religions cannot exist in the country of Arabia,” non-Muslims are forbidden to practice their religion, build churches, possess Bibles, etc.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Non-believers—atheists (surely the most neglected minority in history)—in Muslim countries do not have “the  right to life.” They are to be killed. Muslim doctors of law generally divide sins into great sins and little sins. Of the seventeen great sins, unbelief is the greatest, more heinous than murder, theft, adultery, etc.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Slavery is recognized in the Qur’an. Muslims are allowed to cohabit with any of their female slaves (Sura iv.3); they are allowed to take possession of married women if they are slaves (Sura iv.28); the helpless position of the slave as regard his master illustrates the helpless position of the false gods of Arabia in the presence of their Creator (Sura  xvi.77).

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Judaism and even Fundamentalist Hinduism have the same kinds of "problems".

I think it's time to hang up your BROADD BRUUSH (not all Muslims believe exactly the same thing, they are not robots).
#227
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@keithprosser
But unless Allah is real and has plans for us there can be no such thing as a correct interpretation.


"US!!!? Muslims you mean. And it is all Islam, they share a book, the same fkn book, The same book is read by all muslims. Or are you telling me there are other "types" and "forms" of the Quran? 

they all claim their interpretation is the true one!

 All who?
You are so fkn fixated on "interpretation" so interpret this verse for me:

Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people.



It is alleged - with some credibility - that the rise of fundamentalist intrerpretations of Islam is at least partly due to Saudi Arabia using its great oil wealth to export 'wahaabist' Islam, for instance by building and funding mosques, schools and madrasas worldwide.   Or is that sectarian propaganda?  I can't be sure.

" wahaabist Islam" is still Islam They (wahaabists) are not a different sect of Islam as much as the western governments,leaders, media and now you like to push it.  Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they. They appear to be encouraging it and we, the indigenous people, are called "islamophobic" and racist for airing our concerns that they keep importing more people from Islamic countries disguised are 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees' who have no intention of integrating with the "dirty animal pagan unbelieving kuffar". 

There are a few other factors that must be taken seriously into consideration.

 Mustafa Kemal Atatürk ( a secularist) was despised and hated by Muslims when he tried 'reforms' when the Islamic State/caliphate  ended in 1924 up until that time the Islamic Caliphate had existed for over 1400 years and in the time of its existence they had butchered more that 270 million people.

People thought the Islamic State was now a thing of the past, never to return, but in truth it had never gone away; it was there bubbling below the surface, literally. The one factor you have already mentioned, it was the discovery of oil that enabled muslims to resurrect the Islamic State. Discovered by western technology and the same helped them get it out of the ground, refine it and stupidly allowed them to nationalise it. Saudi Arabians went from living in tents and mud huts to living in palaces almost over night. Yes this gift of oil was from Allah because they had been faithful following the quran to the letter as taught by the perfect prophet muhammad and living in his way.

Another  factor is that Sayyid Ruhollah Mūsavi Khomeini,  known in the West as Ayatollah Khomeini, coming to power in 1979.  Now they had the money and the spiritual covering to wage Islamic jihad once more.

Another is Osama bin Laden. He and the mujahideen had defeated a super power and this too was a victory handed to them by Allah for remaining faithful to the words of the quran and walking in the way of the perfect prophet Muhammad and now they believed they were ready to take on the  " Great Satan"  itself, the USA.   Fortunately , what the Soviets couldn't do in ten years, thankfully the Americans did in just under ten weeks.

that is to encourage Muslims to reject conservative forms of Islam and adopt more progressive forms.

"forms" and "types" again

what like letting a woman drive car ... with the permission of and  escorted by, a father, brother, uncle or male cousin?
Remember Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, he who was hated and despised by muslims?  Who gave women the rights to vote, he gave women a right to education, a right work, a right  to choose her own husband. He forbid women from wearing the hijab and burqa and men from wearing a beard. It seems he was on the right track but now it all seems to be in reverse under Erdogan.

You are living in denial prosser.
#228
Stephen
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Ibn Warraq, Islamic scholar and a leading figure in Qur’anic criticism, was a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry. 
Women are inferior under Islamic law; their testimony in a court of law is worth half that of a man; their movement is strictly restricted; they cannot marry a non-Muslim.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".




With a MASSIVE difference you absolute buffoon. Islam STILL practices all the above and worse. Islam is still ancient Islam.

There have been massive reforms in Judaism and Christianity and all for the better of mankind (though some may disagree). On the other hand ;  ISLAM  is STILL the BARBARIC ideology as it was when it was first created by man believing he had a vision over 1400 years ago.

Jews do not even recognise the Old Testament as ' there's' you fool and they never have.  And Christianity preaches love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek. You will not find a single quote from the  Christ of the New Testament instructing his followers to go out into the world and rape, maim and murder anyone who doesn't believe in him or who is not Christian, as does the ancient barbaric god of the Quran.

I have heard all of these fkn excuses from many apologist for islam like you and prosser, and they simply do not stand up when challenged.

I see you ignored much of that link just as I knew you would. All apologist do this when they have to face facts.


“The Democratic system that is predominant in the world is not a suitable system for the peoples of our region. … The system of free elections is not suitable to our country.”  King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/is-islam-compatible-with-democracy-and-human-rights/

At least King Fahd has had the honesty to admit the incompatibility of Islam and Democracy.

"Quite clearly under Islam, one does not have the right to change one’s religion, if one is born into a Muslim family. Applying double standards, Muslims are quite happy to accept converts to their religion, but a Muslim may not convert to another religion; this would be apostasy, which is punishable by death. Here is how the great commentator Baydawi (c.1291) sees the matter:“Whosoever turns back from his belief, openly or secretly, take him and kill him wheresoever you find him, like any other infidel. Separate yourself from him altogether. Do not accept intercession in his regard.” https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/is-islam-compatible-with-democracy-and-human-rights/



You asked for a logical support for my claim. You got it from a muslim academic scholar and a Muslim King:  you don't like it. This is the typical reaction of someone having the FACTS of the matter shoved up their drainpipe. Now go away. Unless you would like some more facts concerning the incompatibility of Islam with west.


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#229
keithprosser
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@Stephen
" wahaabist Islam" is still Islam They (wahaabists) are not a different sect of Islam as much as the western governments,leaders, media and now you like to push it.  Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they. They appear to be encouraging it and we, the indigenous people, are called "islamophobic" and racist for airing our concerns that they keep importing more people from Islamic countries disguised are 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees' who have no intention of integrating with the "dirty animal pagan unbelieving kuffar".

I'm glad we have established a little common ground!  I think some of the posters here are being a little complacent about the consequences of the increasing impact of Islamism on British life.   Muslims make up only 1% of America's popution and the US has other, more pressing social issues sotheir perspective is different.  Here in the uk traditional race/colour xenophobia is almost a thing of the past but tension between the idigenous population and Muslims - including second and third generation Muslims - has ratcheted up alarmingly over the last few decades and doing so at an increasing rate.

While spectacular and violent attacks are still rare, low level petty stuff (name calling, Mosque windows being smashed etc) is a constant background hum.   There aren't no-go areas, but there area places where wearing a mini-skirt or wearing a burqa is 'non-neutral'. 

It's no practical use to blame one side or the other, or for one side to blame the other.  What we have is a classic 'vicious spiral' of mutual distrust and suspicion.

My concern is that we get into a situation where we no longer consider people as individuals but as undiferntiated members of a group.  That is we don't worry if a person is a law-abiding regular guy or a anti-social psychopath but whether they are a muslim or not.   Prejudice is pre-judice, that is 'judging before'.  It is perhaps odd that it is the left that supports individualism and the right that supports bee-hive mentality in this regard!

I don't think Britain is ever going to be an Islamic state under Sharia law.  But in the meantime a sizeable number of british citizens are coming under the thrall of an odious ideology.  Islam does not have to be homophobic, misogynistic or intolerant any more than Christianity has to be Creationist.

Ideally, I would prefer Muslims dropped Islam altogether and adopted rationalist humanism.  But that is too idealistic, even for an optimist like me!   But there are 'softer' forms of Islam than wahaabism - unfortunately they don't have Saudi billions promoting them and westerners like Stehphen and Tommy Robinson agreeing that only the most egregious forms of Islam are legitimate - they should ask to be on the Saudi's pay roll!










#230
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@Stephen
And it is all Christians, they share a book, the same fkn book, The same book is read by all Christians. Or are you telling me there are other "types" and "forms" [or interpretations] of the Bible? 
#231
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@Stephen
Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they.
Freedom of speech (money is speech per Citizens United) and innocent until proven guilty (you can't convict people for mere suspicion) and BROAAD BRUUSH.
#232
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@Stephen
Discovered by western technology and the same helped them get it out of the ground, refine it and stupidly allowed them to nationalise it.
Please explain what you think would have been the "smart" thing to do?
#233
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@Stephen
With a MASSIVE difference you absolute buffoon. Islam STILL practices all the above and worse. Islam is still ancient Islam.
Where's the caliphate?

There have been massive reforms in Judaism and Christianity and all for the better of mankind (though some may disagree). On the other hand ;
HOWevER, their starting points look disturbingly similar to other ancient rule books.

#234
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@Stephen
ISLAM  is STILL the BARBARIC ideology as it was when it was first created by man believing he had a vision over 1400 years ago.
Perhaps, the prim and proper Christians of the world could BOYCOTT and SANCTION ALL countries that VIOLATE HUMAN RIGHTS.

The "problem" here is that the prim and proper Christians of the world don't give a flying flip about inalienable human rights. 

They only care about money.

The prim and proper Christians of the world have been pumping money into these "evil" Muslim countries for almost 100 years now.

Who's "funding terrorism"?  You are.  You and your father and your grandfather. [LINK]
#235
3RU7AL
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@Stephen
Jews do not even recognise the Old Testament as ' there's' you fool and they never have.
Have you ever heard of "the five books of Moses" (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)?

The Old Testament is the Torah, the books of the Prophets and the books of the Writings. Within Judaism this trio is known simply as the Bible, or the Tanakh, an acronym derived from תורה/ Torah (Teaching), נביאים / Nevi’im (Prophets), and כתובים/ Ketuvim (Writings). When the term Old Testament is used, it is often in order to distinguish it from the New Testament, a collection of Christian books and letters that are not part of the Jewish faith. [LINK]
#236
Dr.Franklin
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London in 2075L

Welcome to Londonstan!
#237
3RU7AL
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@Stephen
And Christianity preaches love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek. 
Which apparently translates as "kill all Muslims"?
#238
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@Stephen
“The Democratic system that is predominant in the world is not a suitable system for the peoples of our region. … The system of free elections is not suitable to our country.”  King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. 

At least King Fahd has had the honesty to admit the incompatibility of Islam and Democracy.
EVERY SINGLE KING IN HISTORY BELIEVES - "The system of free elections is not suitable to our country."

This is not exactly a shocker.
#239
3RU7AL
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@Stephen
You asked for a logical support for my claim.
That is correct.

You got it from a muslim academic scholar and a Muslim King: 
A big fat opinion sandwich.

you don't like it. This is the typical reaction of someone having the FACTS of the matter shoved up their drainpipe. Now go away. Unless you would like some more facts concerning the incompatibility of Islam with west.
You are conflating opinion with fact.  Opinion and fact are mutually exclusive categories.

FACT: Muslim majority countries conduct billions of dollars in trade with "western" countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.

FACT: Muslim individuals are considered celebrities in "western" countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.

FACT: Individuals from "western" countries often travel to and even start businesses and churches and live comfortably for extended periods in Muslim majority countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.
#240
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@Stephen
Here's your Steel Man, [LINK]