Where did God come from?

Author: Dr.Franklin ,

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  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    God had no beginning (just as He will have no end); He has always existed, and He always will. (That’s why He had no father or mother.) I know that’s hard for us to understand, because everything we see around us had a beginning. Even the universe–the stars, the galaxies, even the atoms you can’t see that make up everything in the world–all had a beginning. But God had no beginning. The Bible says, “The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth” (Isaiah 40:28).
  • ludofl3x
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    Special pleading. 
  • disgusted
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    The god invented with the rest of the Canaanite panthion
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @disgusted
    Wrong, God is real
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @disgusted
    Wrong, God is real
  • Mopac
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    --> @ludofl3x
    Special Pleading
    When you base an argument on reasoning that is not logical, you have committed a fallacy. One type of fallacy is special pleading. Special pleading involves a person applying rules and standards to others while exempting him- or herself. In addition, with special pleading, the person does not provide a logical reason for why he/she should be exempt from the rules or standards.

    Examples of Special Pleading:
    1. Students who break the rules should be suspended from school. I broke a rule, but I shouldn't be suspended because I would be in a lot of trouble with my parents.

    2. Katie and Mark are siblings. Their cat, Rusty, has made a mess in the bathroom by clawing the toilet paper and strewing it all over the floor. When they both return home after school, Mark tells Katie that she needs to clean it up because he is too tired to do it after school.

    3. Yes, teacher, I think that lying is wrong, but she is my daughter, and she is normally such a good kid!

    4. Of course those who aren't productive at work shouldn't get a raise. But, Mr. Boss, I have a family to feed.

    5. Everyone should clean up their own messes, but my messy room doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, then you should clean it up.

    6. Everyone should be patient and wait his or her turn in line. However, I need to go to the front because I have some place to be.




    Now why are you saying "special pleading"?

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Mopac
    Boom
  • ludofl3x
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    --> @Mopac
    Now why are you saying "special pleading"?

    This argument is "everything has a beginning EXCEPT THIS ONE THING."  Look.

    Even the universe–the stars, the galaxies, even the atoms you can’t see that make up everything in the world–all had a beginning. But God had no beginning.

  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Dr.Franklin


    Dr. C&P Franklin,

    Thank you once again for admitting that the earth is FLAT, where I made you the continued fool in your debate!

    “The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth” (Isaiah 40:28).

    Now, take off your pointed aluminum foil hat and think, you cannot have ends of the earth on an alleged sphere, UNDERSTOOD? HUH?

    Class dismissed.


    .
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Let's take a look at the Hebrew meanings for the word "circle" in Isaiah 40:22.
    "It is he that sitteth upon the circle (Strong's Hebrew lexicon # 2329) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" - Isaiah 40:22 (RSB)
    Though before we proceed, I must point out in Isaiah 40:22 that there "literally" are some "metaphors" used to described our reality. However, the shape of the earth is not metaphorically written, in order, to be disregarded for it's literalness.
    For instance, when Isaiah 40:22 says "...inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers..." is this an admission that other species, besides a grasshopper, do NOT exist on the face of the earth? Are we being lied to in Genesis 1:20-28 when it states that fish, winged fowl, whales, beast, cattle, and man were species created by God and exist on the face of the earth? Was Isaiah, the Prophet, conveying to us that he was really a grasshopper and not a man?
    How about when Isaiah 40:22 says, "...stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spread them out as a tent to dwell in:"? Are the heavens literally a curtain just like you have a curtain to cover your windows in your home? And does that "curtain" transform the earth into a literal tent, like you would purchase at the store?
    In each of these instances you will find a very important word which makes its context extremely clear. The conjunction word "as" which could just as well be replaced with the word "like."
    So, instead of, "...as grasshoppers..." it could have been interpreted in the English language as "...like grasshoppers..."
    Instead of, "...as a curtain..." it could have been interpreted in the English language as "...like a curtain..."
    Instead of, "...as a tent..." it could have been interpreted in the English language as "...like a tent..."
    You get where I am going with this California Valley Girl "like" style speech? The word "as" is not to mean the same thing as the word "the" and if the translators did their job properly and God's Word has truly been preserved then "as" is used appropriately and within context throughout Isaiah 40:22 just "as" the word "the."
    Does Isaiah 40:22 say "...as the circle of the earth..." or does it say "...the circle of the earth...?" Last I checked it ONLY uses the word "the" and NOT the word "as." Why is this?
    Perhaps...just maybe...for Isaiah 40:22 to be properly translated within context the word "as" could NOT be used because the descriptive attribute word of "circle" is not California Valley Girl speak? Perhaps, the word "the" was used before the word "circle" because within context is meant to be definitively a "fact" of "the" matter?
    So, now that we all understand the difference between the word "as" and "the," we can move onto a deeper topic. Such as, what Hebrew word translates to the word "circle" and what can that Hebrew word mean?
    The word "circle" in Isaiah 40:22 comes from Strong's Hebrew lexicon # 2329 is the Hebrew word chuwg (pronounced khoog): a circle:--circle, circuit, compass.
    As you can see by the English words associated to the Hebrew word chuwg, there is no direct association to a 3 dimensional object. However, a 2 dimensional image is referenced, and that is known as a circle.
    Some may attempt to use the argument that the word "circuit" is in mix of the Hebrew word and could infer motion to the earth, rather than the earth having a disk like shape to it. The word circuit could have been inserted into the English translation though was NOT, because within the context the word "circle" was appropriate. And, should this verse imply that the earth has motion to it, then it would be at odds and contradictory to at least 9 other Bible passages which clearly define the earth as being at rest, immovable, fixed, and stable. Is God's Word contradictory, or are some attempting to be editors of God's Word?
    Merriam-Webster defines circle:
    a : ring, halo
    b : a closed plane (see plane 2b) curve every point of which is equidistant (see equidistant) from a fixed point within the curve
    c : the plane surface bounded by such a curveDo you see any flexibility to the word "circle" to imply or even infer "sphere" or "ball" or even an "oblate spheroid?" If you do, please re-read the definitions for you didn't quite understand them. Though, moving on for the rest.
    Does Isaiah use the word ball/sphere anywhere in his writings? Well, as a matter of fact, he does. Let's take a look at Isaiah 22:18 which is filled with metaphors.
    "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (Strong's Hebrew lexicon # 1754) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy sovereign's house." - Isaiah 22:18 (RSB)
    Because of our research into the word "as," which could just as easily be swapped with the word "like," do you see what is happening here in this verse?
    "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball..." There it is again, that word "like." Which means that this passage is using a metaphor to get a particular point across to the reader.
    In any case, the word "ball" in Isaiah 22:18 comes from Strong's Hebrew lexicon # 1754 is the Hebrew word duwr (pronounced dure): a circle, ball or

  • BrotherDThomas
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    Dr. C&P Franklin,


    To prevent you from making a greater fool of yourself, I will just reiterate the following in behalf of HEBREW LANGUAGE FACT!

    The Hebrew word CHUWG describes a CIRCLE. Therefore, deducing it to its irreducable primary, the Hebrew word CHUWG refers to the earth, compass, or the vault of heaven as a CIRCLE which is FLAT and not a SPHERE!  2+2=4!

    Strong's #2329: chuwg (pronounced khoog)
    from 2328; a circle:--circle, circuit, compass.

    Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew Lexicon:

    chûg

    1) circle, circuit, compass
    2) (BDB) vault (of the heavens)

    Part of Speech: noun masculine
    Relation: from H2328

    Usage:
    This word is used 3 times:
     
    Job 22:14: "to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven."
    Proverbs 8:27: "I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:"
    Isaiah 40:22: "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants that stretcheth out the heavens”

    Now, it is not my intent to show you to be the fool once again regarding the Bible and the historicity at the time that posits that the earth was FLAT, therefore, take your medicine and be silent, thank you.  


    Ancient Israel imagined the earth to be a flat disk (Isa 42.5) resting on a foundation or pillars (Job 9.6). It is surrounded by the ocean (Pss 24.2; 136.6). It has four corners (Isa 11.12; Ezek 7.2; job 37.3; 38.13) and an edge (Isa 24.36) or ends (Isa 40.8; Job 28.4; Ps 48.11; Jer 6.22; 25.32). 

    YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ANACHRONISTICALLY CHANGE HISTORY OF THE TIME OF THE BIBLE WHERE THE EARTH WAS CONSIDERED FLAT, PERIOD!  https://wp-media.patheos.com/blogs/sites/719/2017/03/hebrewcosmologyforblog.png


    Can you possibly give us a rest regarding your complete bible ignorance?  Please, at least think about it. Thanks.


    .



  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    Unfortunately you only mentioned the usage for 1 meaning of the word

    I have to reiterate then


    Though before we proceed, I must point out in Isaiah 40:22 that there "literally" are some "metaphors" used to described our reality. However, the shape of the earth is not metaphorically written, in order, to be disregarded for it's literalness.or instance, when Isaiah 40:22 says "...inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers..." is this an admission that other species, besides a grasshopper, do NOT exist on the face of the earth? Are we being lied to in Genesis 1:20-28 when it states that fish, winged fowl, whales, beast, cattle, and man were species created by God and exist on the face of the earth? Was Isaiah, the Prophet, conveying to us that he was really a grasshopper and not a man?
    How about when Isaiah 40:22 says, "...stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spread them out as a tent to dwell in:"? Are the heavens literally a curtain just like you have a curtain to cover your windows in your home? And does that "curtain" transform the earth into a literal tent, like you would purchase at the store?

  • Mopac
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    --> @ludofl3x
    Yet God is not like these other things, they are of different natures. If God was a created thing, maybe you would have a case, but God isn't  a created thing. Created things by nature come into existence. 


    In fact, to say, "The Ultimate Reality began to exist" does not even make sense. All things began to exist, but it would be silly to say existence itself began to exist. There would always have to be some form of existence.


    God is the persistent reality that sustains the existence of all other things. It is not a fallacy to say that it has no beginning or end.    

  • Alec
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    If God exists, then why are there thousands of different religions?  It seems like religion is a social construct.  Also, even if you can find proof that God exists, I can find proof that the flying spaghetti monster (FSM) exists.

    If the FSM doesn't exist then why:

    -Is DNA shaped like Pasta?

    -Does the Milky way look like twirled up pasta?
  • Dr.Franklin
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    My biggest complaint of this website is that everything revolves back to the existence of God
  • Mopac
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    If God exists, then why are there thousands of different religions?  It seems like religion is a social construct. 

    The proliferation of many different ways of life in no olway shape or form undermines The Ultimate Reality.

    Also, even if you can find proof that God exists, I can find proof that the flying spaghetti monster (FSM) exists.

    If the FSM doesn't exist then why:

    -Is DNA shaped like Pasta?

    -Does the Milky way look like twirled up pasta?
    The flying spaghetti monster even if real is obviously a created being.

    The Ultimate Reality exists, and it is no exaggeration to say that only a fool truly believes otherwise.
  • Stronn
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    --> @Mopac
    Special pleading: Applying standards, principles, and/or rules to other people or circumstances, while making oneself or certain circumstances exempt from the same critical criteria, without providing adequate justification.

    Claiming a rule is universal ("everything has a beginning") then exempting something from that rule ("except God") without justification is textbook special pleading. Why exclude God? And if there is one exception to the rule, why not others?

    It doesn't help to distinguish between "created" and "uncreated" things--"created" is just another way of saying something had a beginning.

    In fact, to say, "The Ultimate Reality began to exist" does not even make sense. All things began to exist, but it would be silly to say existence itself began to exist. There would always have to be some form of existence.
    Why? What is the justification for the statement in bold? Are you just giving an argument from incredulity, or is there some logical reason?
  • Mopac
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Thats because people think that debate is about convincing people that something is true even if it isn't rather than what debate should be, which is honestly working together to find truth.

    Take a position. Doesn't matter if you believe in it. Debate that side.

    From that point on it is simply about who can sound the most convincing, and people who know how to sound convincing know that being completely honest is not always the best way to do this.


    Atheism is easy. It's the laziest and stupidest position in the world to argue. It's incredibly destructive too. Atheism is foundationally nihilism 


  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Mopac
    that's true
  • Alec
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    --> @Mopac
    The proliferation of many different ways of life in no olway shape or form undermines The Ultimate Reality.
    Religions contradict themselves on significant and trivial issues.  For example, the Quran prohibits or strongly discourages alcohol consumption, the bible has it's prophets consuming it.

    The flying spaghetti monster even if real is obviously a created being.
    The FSM is a joke made by atheists, although some people take it seriously.
  • Mopac
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    --> @Alec
    Religion =/= God
  • Mopac
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    --> @Stronn
    Created things are by nature contingent realities. The Uncreated is by nature a singularity, self existing. Incomprehensible. The Ultimate Reality.
  • Stronn
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    --> @Mopac
    How do you know anything about its nature if it is incomprehensible?

  • Alec
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    --> @Mopac
    If God exists, he created religion.  If he doesn't, then society did to explain to children how stuff got created.

  • Mopac
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    --> @Stronn
    Do you know what it means to know everything?

    You sure do.

    Do you know everything?

    Of course not.