The evolution of Aggression.

Author: RationalMadman ,

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  • RationalMadman
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    --> @3RU7AL @Castin @David @keithprosser @oromagi
    I am heavily into game theory and I believe in evolution strongly. This is a fascinating video excellently done to explain why you need to be gangsta at times but not at all times though.
  • ebuc
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    --> @RationalMadman
    I am heavily into game theory and I believe in evolution strongly.
    Fullers speculative pre-history of humans is a scenario  that has humanities beginnings in the South Pacific with less aggressive peoples, that, once they came onto the south east Asia mainland, encournted tigers and this MAY have led to humans aquiring a more aggresive nature.





  • RationalMadman
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    Okay but what the video tries to show is how both right-wing mentality of too much aggression and left-wing mentality of too little aggression lead to your species/tribe being wiped out over time. In the former, you are your own downfall-bringer and in the latter, you're too easy for the aggressive to prey upon.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @RationalMadman
    Thanks for sharing, and you make a pretty decent point about the whole 50/50 doves versus hawks.

    HoWEver, the larger hawk doesn't necessarily need to expend any extra energy at all if they can passively intimidate smaller hawks and doves.

    This point was briefly mentioned near the end of the video, but I would like to see it integrated into its own simulation.

    I'd also like to see how a "honey badger" (always fight) strategy would fair against the passive intimidation strategy.
  • ebuc
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    --> @RationalMadman
    We also have to recall, that in those most ancient pre-history days some million{s} of years ago, these South Pacific peoples were probably pretty small { short } so a tiger would have taken even more aggressive measures ---more adrenaline?--   by these smaller peoples to subdue a larger tiger in comparison to the peoples size.

    The tiger is the oversizedaggressive hawk and  the short sea faring less aggressive peopples.

    ...Larger tiger...(O) .. (O)....GROWL!!!

    Smaller human ....o..o.....yikes!!!

    Recall that in Ghost and the Lion movie with Val Kilmer that I first realized why the native african peoples had the large headress that went around their chin, sides of head and top of head.  It was to make them appear to have a large mane, as if they were Lion that is much taller than the lion.

    The human used their mind to create the illusion of their being a taller Lion with a mane.

    Also in the movie "The Gods have gone crazy, where the native father tells his young boy that if he is ever meets a hyena, that the boy must do something to make himself lool bigger than the hyena. So this happens later on and the boy picks a piece of tree bark offf the ground, and stands it on end on top of his head to makes himself look taller,.

    MInd { intellect/reasoning/dove } over matter { brawn/muscle/hawk }.


  • RationalMadman
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    --> @ebuc
    er, you can be a well-reasoned aggressive individual and a highly emotional-thinking passive individual.

    In the world of bdsm, there's highly intelligent doms and subs alike. In fact, I would argue that if you took the MOST intelligent creatures, most are aggro/dom. If you took the MOST dumb creatures, most are passive/sub but in the middle range there's great variety.
  • RationalMadman
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    There is no such thing as passive intimidation. You are talking about repeated interactions, which would include the other end of the spectrum (memory of who fucked you over the last time vs shared) which leads me again to explain why copycat loses to always cooperate.

    Humans were the most cooperative species on the planet, that's why we dominated. Not because of intellect alone, but because we worked in teams and used language in a way no other species on Earth at present or known to us does/did.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @RationalMadman
    There is no such thing as passive intimidation.
    I used to work at a business that generated a fair number of customer complaints.

    The customers were very loud and aggressive (really just plain abusive) with the very polite 4'9" female manager and strangely sheepish when, just as they demanded, she called the general manager who was a very polite 6'6" 350lb giant.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @3RU7AL
    He needs to eat more food to maintain such a body shape. Has to workout harder and for more time if muscular etc.

    You also need to realise that when it's at the general manager level, they realise there's no one further up than the police/media to fight with or via. With her there was still the hope that even if they completely fucked it up with her they could make it work with the general manager.

    I have seen women tame beasts that men like that really pissed off but ultimately there is a link between being masculine and staying calm in aggressive scenarios, so I won't deny on balance that fits the correct stereotype.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @3RU7AL
    The man is a cooperator not a hawk, it's the woman who is hawking him to not need to fight further and that's a perfectly good scenario to have for both as the man enjoys being needed clearly and probably gets off in secret in being such a guardian.

    There is nothing about that that defies the natural selection I implied. Groups evolve, not individuals.
  • ebuc
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    er, you can be a well-reasoned aggressive individual and a highly emotional-thinking passive individual.
    In the world of bdsm, there's highly intelligent doms and subs alike. In fact, I would argue that if you took the MOST intelligent creatures, most are aggro/dom. If you took the MOST dumb creatures, most are passive/sub but in the middle range there's great variety.
    My paraphrasing Fuller was meant as a generalization. Ex vegatarian { dove } meat eater { hawk }.

    Inbetween we have meat eaters that only eat already dead animals and animals that ill aggressively defending their foraging territory but not killing and eating the other animal.

    Access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts in  concert with its brains most compassionate and empathetic place, a dove.

    Access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts in concert with its brains flight, flight or sick-n-head engaged is the hawk.

    Inbetween we have a dog that no-matter how badly you treat them remains loyal yet may attack or not another dog or cat etc.

    We have turtles that couldnt{?} be aggressive even if they tried.

    I dunno, cant bring any good inbetween examples to mind








  • RationalMadman
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    --> @ebuc
    Plenty of in between examples, the most blatant one is the human; the most irrefutably dominant species on the planet. We are the most collaborative species on the planet and if we want to be, the most aggressive as well. We mix it up like no other species does at all.

    Other in between species include all other primates, dolphins, hippos, elephants and basically any/all group-based mammals you could fathom.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @RationalMadman
    He needs to eat more food to maintain such a body shape. Has to workout harder and for more time if muscular etc.You also need to realise that when it's at the general manager level, they realise there's no one further up than the police/media to fight with or via. With her there was still the hope that even if they completely fucked it up with her they could make it work with the general manager.I have seen women tame beasts that men like that really pissed off but ultimately there is a link between being masculine and staying calm in aggressive scenarios, so I won't deny on balance that fits the correct stereotype.
    Perhaps I didn't make this clear enough.

    This happened 100% of the time.

    Someone, would complain and demand some sort of cash value compensation.  The day manager would say "I'm sorry, we can offer you these vouchers".  Then the customer would shout "that's complete bull**t!!  I'm not taking your stupid vouchers!!!  This f*****g ruined my entire day!!!!  You OWE me CASH MONEY!!"

    There was no way for them to know there was "another manager".  They already asked for "the manager" and they were speaking to her.

    Now when BFG approached the situation, he smiled and made eye contact, and the customer **instantly** turned sheepish.

    They looked down at their shoes, shoulders slumped, silent as a mouse. 

    BFG hadn't even said a single word yet.

    He shook their hand and gently asked them what happened, and they would mumble out a half-hearted, toned down version of their initial complaint, then BFG would say "I'm very sorry to hear that, we can offer you these vouchers" and they would then take the vouchers and mumble a squeaky "thanks".
  • ebuc
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    --> @RationalMadman
    Plenty of in between examples, the most blatant one is the human; the most irrefutably dominant species on the planet. We are the most collaborative species on the planet and if we want to be, the most aggressive as well. We mix it up like no other species does at all.
    Yes, your correct and that is due to access metaphysical-1, mind/intelllect/concepts ergo language, as you had stated previously..

    Humans have access to both special-case abilities ---ex wings to fly-- and generalized concepts via access to metaphsysical-1,  mind/intellect/concepts.


    Humans woman Xx is most complex

    Human male less complex Xy

    Which animals fall inbetween these two extremmes I'm not sure and they may have or not have both dove and hawk. I dunno.

    Worm is least complex animal with nervous system.



  • RationalMadman
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    --> @ebuc
    honestly I am done reading your bullshit, mustardness on an alt. Enjoy the block.
  • ebuc
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    RM---honestly I am done reading your bullshit, mustardness on an alt. Enjoy the block.
    Oops, somebodys ego is a hurting.

    Please share when you have any rational, logical common sense that adds to ---and you did and I responded--- or invalidates ---and you did and I responded appropriately--  my comments as stated. 

    Sorry that your ego is so sensitive/touchy
  • Dr.Franklin
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    You need to be GANGSTA at times, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • RationalMadman
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    Glad you liked it!

  • Dr.Franklin
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    Oh your poor boy
  • RationalMadman
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    Good grammar, loved it.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    thx