The Real Obama

Author: David ,

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  • David
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    David
    From a progressive/socialist POV, I believe the Obama administration was an utter failure and a total disgrace to the country. Obama expanded the unconstitutional surveillance state and expanded NDAA, started illegal wars in Libya in Syria, failed to reign in big banks and the thugs who trashed the economy, droned a wedding and hospital that killed innocent children, assassinated an innocent 16-year old with his father, failed to reign in mass incarceration, utterly failed with Obamacare, and up till the Trump administration was the "deporter in chief." 

    If we want to move the country to the left, we need to be intellectually honest with the Obama administration. If Obama were a white Republican and did all those things, Democrats would have impeached him and would have marched through the streets to oppose his illegal wars. 

    Republicans by and large stayed silent on these issues because they supported Obama's most evil policies. Instead they focused on "phony scandals" such as Benghazi. 


  • Imabench
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    Lol....

    Half of those things you listed weren't even things that Obama was even responsible for, while the other half are your own opinions that are barely grounded in reality. 
  • Swagnarok
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    Libya was good for us, because Gaddhafi was a loose cannon who flirted with nuclear weapons. Syria was a failure because ultimately Assad didn't go anywhere, but at least it distracted Hezbollah from the matter of Israel and in turn helped to erode their reputation among Muslims (before, Muslims everywhere could get behind them simply because they're so anti-Israel; but now they're in the thick of a blatantly sectarian conflict, defending a Shi'ite government against Sunni rebels). Both were bad in that they sparked refugee crises, which lessened Europe's security and sparked a new wave of right-wing populism on the continent.
    To be fair, this was right after we withdrew from Iraq. Obama was extremely reluctant to get the US involved in another war so soon, so of course it made sense to use ostensibly pro-democracy insurgents to do the dirty work for us.
    By the end of Obama's term, oil prices were at their lowest in a long time (thanks in part to the increasingly prominent oil industry in the US) and employment was at its highest since the Great Recession. Economic growth was slow but steady. He wasn't hardline on immigration (for obvious reasons), but apparently he did help stymie and contain the rate of illegal immigration.
    And also to be fair, even if you disagree with Obama's policies he had a lot of class. He was a good role model, and he was very presidential in his conduct throughout his presidency. There's no evidence to suggest that he was corrupt.

    On the downside, his statements on BLM and the shooting of Trayvon Martin served to empower hooligans and other malcontents, shown by the crime spike starting c. 2014 after a decade and a half of declining crime (even if the goal for which these statements were made, ending disproportionate and supposedly unjust police brutality towards blacks, was a noble one). This opened old wounds in regards to race and paved the way for Donald Trump. When he left office, America was more divided than it was when he took office.
    Likewise, his foreign policy gave the impression to our geopolitical adversaries that America was a power in decline, and especially starting in 2014 countries like Russia and China began to do all they could to undermine the international order. It could very well be argued that the 2016 Russian interference in the US election, as miniscule as it ultimately was, might not have happened did Obama take a harder line against Putin.

    The "crown jewel" of the Obama Administration was probably the PPACA. There is no clear consensus at this point on how well this extensive healthcare reform package worked out, or whether it'll even get the chance to do so (thanks to Trump). Another was the Paris Agreement, which probably wouldn't have accomplished much and in any case is irrelevant now that Trump withdrew from it.
    I think it's fair to say that the Obama administration was a mixed bag. He did some stuff right and some stuff wrong.
  • 1harderthanyouthink
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    I don't blame Obama for the ACA's failures. I blame the Senate.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @1harderthanyouthink
    It's really Pelosi care.
  • David
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    David
    “We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.” 

    What a moron
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @David
    Pelosi was the person who said that, not Obama.
  • David
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    --> @Greyparrot
    I know. You said it was Pelosi care which is why i brought up that quote from her

368 days later

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @Swagnarok
    Libya was good for us, because Gaddhafi was a loose cannon who flirted with nuclear weapons.
    Libya is stuck in a never ending civil war now, just sanction that ass

  • ILikePie5
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    --> @David
    From a progressive/socialist POV, I believe the Obama administration was an utter failure and a total disgrace to the country. Obama expanded the unconstitutional surveillance state and expanded NDAA, started illegal wars in Libya in Syria, failed to reign in big banks and the thugs who trashed the economy, droned a wedding and hospital that killed innocent children, assassinated an innocent 16-year old with his father, failed to reign in mass incarceration, utterly failed with Obamacare, and up till the Trump administration was the "deporter in chief." 

    If we want to move the country to the left, we need to be intellectually honest with the Obama administration. If Obama were a white Republican and did all those things, Democrats would have impeached him and would have marched through the streets to oppose his illegal wars. 

    Republicans by and large stayed silent on these issues because they supported Obama's most evil policies. Instead they focused on "phony scandals" such as Benghazi. 


    If this is sarcasm: Trump2020

    If not: Trump2020
  • Christen
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    Obama is corrupt. He and Bush wrecked our school system with their No Child Left Behind and Every Student Succeeds policies.
  • dustryder
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    --> @Christen
    I'm not sure how implementing policy you personally disagree with makes them corrupt
  • Christen
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    --> @dustryder
    It was a policy that utterly messed up our education system, forcing schools to teach to the test.
  • dustryder
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    --> @Christen
    Right but I'm still missing the corruption component
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Christen

    How do you feel about teachers setting public education policy instead of the general population?

    What if the military formed a workers union and set policies on how to run the military? On how to spend tax funds on the military?
    What do you think would happen to the military? See the problem?
  • Christen
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    --> @dustryder @Greyparrot
    Right but I'm still missing the corruption component
    If they weren't so corrupt they would not have put forth these corrupting policies.

    How do you feel about teachers setting public education policy instead of the general population?
    Define "general population". Is it the government? The people? The schools? The students? The parents? Or any combination of these?
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Christen
    Any other.
  • dustryder
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    --> @Christen
    Ok, how were their policies corrupting?
  • Christen
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    --> @dustryder
    They were corrupting by forcing schools to teach to the test. The policies basically punished schools severely that didn't show high test scores and also made it so that all schools have to adopt a standardized test and teach to it.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    obama SUCKED
  • Christen
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Barack Obama also put forth a "Discipline Policy" which hurt the education system, since they now could no longer punish bad students consistently. https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/03/13/5-ways-obamas-discipline-policy-made-schools-less-effective-safe/



    This article shows that Donald Trump did the right thing by revoking that corrupting policy. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/new-report-proves-trump-was-right-to-rescind-obama-era-school-discipline-policies
  • dustryder
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    --> @Christen
    Ok perhaps I should've asked first. What is your definition of corrupt and how does it apply here?
  • Christen
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    --> @dustryder

    guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; lacking integrity; crooked:a corrupt judge.
    debased in character; depraved; perverted; wicked; evil:a corrupt society.
    It applies here because Barack Obama was being dishonest towards Americans by ruining the American education system. His policy, in a way, was a "bribery" towards schools that showed high test scores and also a punishment towards schools that did not show high test scores. This forces just about every public school to focus on teaching to the test instead of teaching more useful stuff, resulting in a worse society since you now have students who know how to calculate (-B+-(((4/AC)/(2A))^(1/2))) but don't know how to do other more important things, and we have schools with bad kids who don't get punished because of Obama's policies, and we tend to forget a lot of what we learned in school, all because of Barack Obama and George Bush's policies.
  • dustryder
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    --> @Christen
    It applies here because Barack Obama was being dishonest towards Americans by ruining the American education system.
    Dishonesty requires an intent to deceive. Corruption requires deceptive practices. Not one word here implies intent to deceive and as a consequence, deceptive practices

    His policy, in a way, was a "bribery" towards schools that showed high test scores and also a punishment towards schools that did not show high test scores.
    If you have to write "in a way", it's probably not. In this case, it's because the correct term is incentive

    This forces just about every public school to focus on teaching to the test instead of teaching more useful stuff, resulting in a worse society since you now have students who know how to calculate (-B+-(((4/AC)/(2A))^(1/2))) but don't know how to do other more important things, and we have schools with bad kids who don't get punished because of Obama's policies, and we tend to forget a lot of what we learned in school, all because of Barack Obama and George Bush's policies.
    In other-words, you personally disagree with the direction that they took American education. However none of this makes them corrupt.

    Also, what was education like before their policies were enacted? Society can hardly be made worse if the "more important things" weren't taught then either

    Personally, I think understanding how to perform basic calculations/order of operations is pretty important, and fall under the umbrella of learning how to think so I don't exactly share your concerns.
  • Christen
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    --> @dustryder
    They deceived us by making us think these policies would help us when instead they hurt us. They corrupted our school system by forcing them to focus only on teaching to the test. Look at other countries like Finland who do not focus on teaching to the test, and their education system is better as a result.

    This is a basic summary of what schools were like before I was born. https://www.quora.com/What-was-high-school-like-30-years-ago

    It talks about how "30 years ago, you actually had teachers that taught classes and kids understood what was going on. The teachers took their time to make sure kids knew the material which is different from today’s high school. Students didn’t have smart phones 30 years ago people wasn’t on their phone while the teacher was instructing the lesson."

    It also talks about how "Food wasn’t processed like it is now you actually had cafeteria lady’s who cooked from scratch, but now it’s just straight up food you have to reheat and then serve it. Graduation rates was higher 30 years ago now it’s lower because you have more people getting pregnant and people joining gangs."

    I wasn't trying to say that learning how to do basic calculations was bad. I guess I should have phrased my words differently so it wouldn't sound like I was saying that. I was just saying that schools teach us too many things that we would not really remember in like a year or two and also puts too much emphasis on standardized test. Like how can a test be like 50 to 80 percent of your grade?! That is just insane! It should be divided more evenly, so 25% of this counts to tests, and 25% counts for that, and the other 25% counts for this, and so on.

    When you put so much focus on tests, it incorrectly teaches people that tests are all that matter in life, when that isn't the case.