Why a border wall could be effective

Author: dylancatlow ,

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 23
  • dylancatlow
    dylancatlow avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 91
    0
    0
    3
    dylancatlow avatar
    dylancatlow
    1. Many of those crossing the border do so in groups that include small children, babies, and other "dependents" who wouldn't be able to scale a wall themselves. Getting them over a 30 foot high-wall with barbed wire at the top would be risky and difficult, and it would make repeated crossings a nightmare. 

    2. If the wall was installed with motion detectors every few hundred feet or so, the wall would have to be scaled very quickly in order to avoid capture by police. Depending on how high the wall was, this may be next to impossible. 

    Of course, no wall we build will ever be 100 percent effective at preventing illegal immigration, but it doesn't have to be perfect to prevent or discourage large numbers of would-be immigrants from entering the country. These are not trained wall-climbers we're dealing with, but scared and impoverished peasants who in many cases aren't even sure they want to leave home. 
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,995
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    Most of them pay 5-10 thousand dollars for coyote transport across the border to ride the American Gravytrain.

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,329
    2
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @dylancatlow
    it would be far more effective than the fences etc that were built by previous administrations, obviously the believed barriers helped and worked to a certain degree.  We protect buildings and areas with physical barriers all the time, because they help and do work.  Obama had a wall built around their new home, Pelosi etc they all have walls.  Now mind you they have walls within the U.S.  Consider for a moment if you will, someone who is already a citizen has more access and money to acquire ladders and other means to defeat these barriers if they really wanted to.  And yet they still put up those walls.
    The border walls will be far bigger, more difficult to overcome and the people poorer with less ability to acquire the means needed to defeat them.

    In short the wealthy build walls within the interior of the country to keep people out.  They believe walls around their homes work well enough to incur the expense and time to have them built.  Using their own logic, walls work.

  • Snoopy
    Snoopy avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,323
    2
    1
    4
    Snoopy avatar
    Snoopy
    I like the steel posts.  They should last longer than a fence.  They're not quite as imposing as a wall since you can see through them, and well, they're posts.  They probably won't get covered in graffiti, and as they degrade they will just get a little rustier, no cracks and crumbles.  They can be installed in a straightforward manner even on unstable terrain, repaired and replaced individually if need be.  
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,329
    2
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Snoopy
    those could work imo, add solar panels and wind turbines so they can be electrified ftw.
  • TheRealNihilist
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    Debates: 44
    Forum posts: 4,888
    4
    8
    11
    TheRealNihilist avatar
    TheRealNihilist
    --> @Snoopy
    Snoopy the Trump supporter. Saw you actually take stances. Thanks for making it clear what you are instead of hiding behind. 
  • Dr.Franklin
    Dr.Franklin avatar
    Debates: 32
    Forum posts: 8,186
    4
    6
    11
    Dr.Franklin avatar
    Dr.Franklin
    a border wall is the most effective way of defense

    Everyone else is wrong,right omar?, that's what you think, consveratives are wrong, bwuhahahahahahahahha
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,329
    2
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Dr.Franklin
    consider this, there are a multitude of videos by Democrats wanting and advocating for border barriers.  Even St. Obama.  These simpletons used the terms like fences.  Either their proposals were just b.s. or they are actually that dumb.  Trump on the other hand is serious about the solution and what he wants in the way of a barriers proves that.  So to bash Trump for doing what Democrats had been wanting to do is hypocritical at best.  His ideas are more effective than anything the Democrats could come up with and that has hurt their egos, it's made them look bad, as it should.
  • Snoopy
    Snoopy avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,323
    2
    1
    4
    Snoopy avatar
    Snoopy
    --> @TheRealNihilist
    Snoopy the Trump supporter.
    I don't think I've ever lended support to Donald Trump.  I'm one of those people who can't really hide their disdain for the man, and everyone knows it lol.

    -Snoop Dogg

    I hope he changes my mind in the next year or so.

    Saw you actually take stances. Thanks for making it clear what you are instead of hiding behind. 
    I had presented an opinion the last time I spoke with you.  Act respectfully in the future, and I maybe I'll be more conversational.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,995
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @Snoopy
    That's fucking hilarious. If you like steel posts, then you must lick the asshole of Donald Trump.

    Any person using the word "dog-whistle" is seriously trying to gaslight you.
  • Dr.Franklin
    Dr.Franklin avatar
    Debates: 32
    Forum posts: 8,186
    4
    6
    11
    Dr.Franklin avatar
    Dr.Franklin
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Democrats dumb, IN CONGRESS OK BISH DONT KILL ME!!
  • dustryder
    dustryder avatar
    Debates: 5
    Forum posts: 840
    2
    2
    4
    dustryder avatar
    dustryder
    The conversation doesn't really revolve around could be. A properly implemented, maintained and patrolled wall would absolutely have a significant impact on illegal land-based immigration crossings.

    The question is more how necessary/practical would a wall be? A majority of illegal immigrants do not come to the US via land crossings. The amount of illegal immigrants in the country are estimated to be decreasing.

    Is the entire length of the wall warranted or is it sufficient to reinforce existing portions and/or reevaluate hotspots of illegal crossings along the border and wall up those sections. With the amount spent on this wall, are there any other solutions that address illegal immigration as a whole instead of just land-based crossings?

    Any wall will likely not be finished in any single term of presidency. I imagine any wall will face legal challenges and funding challenges which will retard the process. Will the successor continue with the wall or will the project be abandoned later down the stage?

    Finally in light of these challenges, are the impact of illegal immigrants via border crossings significant enough to warrant an such an expenditure?



  • Snoopy
    Snoopy avatar
    Debates: 1
    Forum posts: 1,323
    2
    1
    4
    Snoopy avatar
    Snoopy
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,995
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @dustryder
    A majority of illegal immigrants do not come to the US via land crossings. 
    How do we know this? Surveys taken from illegal aliens on conditions of anonymity?

    Is that data reliable?

    Of course, there is always the possibility that we can't possibly know who breaks the law and gets away with it because then they actually haven't "gotten away" with breaking the law... what we do know is how many coyotes are near the southern border and we have some estimates about how much money they make smuggling illegal aliens into the country. The money coyotes make even by the most conservative estimates far surpasses the annual budget for border enforcement.
  • zedvictor4
    zedvictor4 avatar
    Debates: 12
    Forum posts: 2,398
    3
    2
    3
    zedvictor4 avatar
    zedvictor4
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Has Trump actually done anything useful during his Term in Office. Or is everything simply sorted out by others, when he is not paying attention?

    This is a genuine question from a Brit to an American.



  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,995
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @zedvictor4
    All of the authority to make lasting changes in the country has to come from Congress. The president is limited to what he can do with temporary executive orders.
  • dylancatlow
    dylancatlow avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 91
    0
    0
    3
    dylancatlow avatar
    dylancatlow
    --> @dustryder
    "A majority of illegal immigrants do not come to the US via land crossings."

    How do they get in, then? If your claim is that most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas, I have a response to that, but first I'd like to know if this is what you're referring to. 

    "The amount of illegal immigrants in the country are estimated to be decreasing."

    There's little reason to believe any of the official estimates put out by the government, but let's just say it's true. The number is always fluctuating, and still remains far above zero. It's also a lot higher than 

    "Is the entire length of the wall warranted or is it sufficient to reinforce existing portions and/or reevaluate hotspots of illegal crossings along the border and wall up those sections. With the amount spent on this wall, are there any other solutions that address illegal immigration as a whole instead of just land-based crossings?"

    There is little use for an incomplete wall. Can you figure out why? 

    "Any wall will likely not be finished in any single term of presidency. I imagine any wall will face legal challenges and funding challenges which will retard the process. Will the successor continue with the wall or will the project be abandoned later down the stage?"

    If the wall couldn't be completed while Trump was still president, then whether it ever got finished or not would largely depend on whether the democrats agreed not to sabotage the project. If the wall is in fact a good idea, then, unless you think democrats are not open to reason, it wouldn't be rational to abandon the idea just because democrats are currently opposed to it. 

    "Finally in light of these challenges, are the impact of illegal immigrants via border crossings significant enough to warrant an such an expenditure?"

    The wall would be a small expense relative to the overall government budget. The estimated cost is around 20 billion dollars, which less than 1 percent of what the government spends every year, and the wall would only have to be built once. Border Patrol already receives 4 billion in annual funding, so 20 billion is not an unreasonable amount to spend to make it possible for Border Control to actually do its job. 

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,329
    2
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @zedvictor4
    personally, I got a much, much larger tax return last year.  more over for the most part gun sales have been down because there's no threat to take them, unlike the Obama reign, record sales, ammo shortages and high prices those 8 years.
    But yeah more physical barriers are being built, better than some silly fence.
    Make no mistake, most of the other Republicans that ran against him, I preferred, but he was a better choice than Hillary Clinton.  I try to give him credit where it's deserved, he has actually done some very good things that you will not hear about because of the biased fake main stream "news"  A lot of the criticism he brings onto himself and it's his fault, I wish he'd stop doing that.
    The democratic party does not care about people like me.  they have turned into some kind of pandering, controlling, enabling mob.  Trump cares more than they do.  remember one of the things he ran on was border security and the citizens have spoken.
  • dustryder
    dustryder avatar
    Debates: 5
    Forum posts: 840
    2
    2
    4
    dustryder avatar
    dustryder
    --> @dylancatlow
    How do they get in, then? If your claim is that most illegal immigrants are people who overstay their visas, I have a response to that, but first I'd like to know if this is what you're referring to. 
    That is indeed what I refer to

    There's little reason to believe any of the official estimates put out by the government, but let's just say it's true. The number is always fluctuating, and still remains far above zero. It's also a lot higher than 
    Right..but it's never going to be zero. The fact that it's decreasing is a positive and indicates that a ham-fisted solution may be not even be necessary

    There is little use for an incomplete wall. Can you figure out why? 
    Then what is the purpose of the current fencing situation along the boarder? Decoration?

    If the wall couldn't be completed while Trump was still president, then whether it ever got finished or not would largely depend on whether the democrats agreed not to sabotage the project. If the wall is in fact a good idea, then, unless you think democrats are not open to reason, it wouldn't be rational to abandon the idea just because democrats are currently opposed to it. 
    Sure. But most polls indicate that a majority are against the wall. And given a democratic president, it's only rational to go with the will of the people

    The wall would be a small expense relative to the overall government budget. The estimated cost is around 20 billion dollars, which less than 1 percent of what the government spends every year, and the wall would only have to be built once. Border Patrol already receives 4 billion in annual funding, so 20 billion is not an unreasonable amount to spend to make it possible for Border Control to actually do its job. 
    There are several estimations of cost. Many estimations exceed 20 billion dollars. Then you'd need to factor in wall maintenance and an increased budget for wall patrols. Of course, this is still fairly small in comparison to overall government budget regardless of these extra factors. Which leads to the question, is the impact of border crossings significant enough to warrant this expense?
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 7,995
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    There are several estimations of cost. Many estimations exceed 20 billion dollars. Then you'd need to factor in wall maintenance and an increased budget for wall patrols. Of course, this is still fairly small in comparison to overall government budget regardless of these extra factors. Which leads to the question, is the impact of border crossings significant enough to warrant this expense?
    This is actually a pretty good point...there are what maybe a few hundred tops killed by illegal aliens a year? Not sure if that justifies 5 billion a year to prevent.

    As far as the drain on infrastructure services goes, what would happen if we took the entire border budget and spent it on infrastructure like schools, housing, and hospitals? Would that do more to help Americans than slowing the flow of illegal immigrants?

    What is the real harm of letting people from shithole countries come and show us how to live?
  • janesix
    janesix avatar
    Debates: 8
    Forum posts: 1,496
    2
    3
    3
    janesix avatar
    janesix
    --> @dylancatlow
    Peasants? Wow
  • janesix
    janesix avatar
    Debates: 8
    Forum posts: 1,496
    2
    3
    3
    janesix avatar
    janesix
    All those awful babies trying to scale walls
  • Christen
    Christen avatar
    Debates: 5
    Forum posts: 332
    1
    4
    7
    Christen avatar
    Christen
    All those awful babies trying to scale walls
    A baby can't scale a wall by themself, so they simply have an adult put them on their back and carry them over.