How do you cross the street?

Author: SkepticalOne ,

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  • SkepticalOne
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    ...look both ways before crossing? Me too. Making informed decisions based on verifiable indisputable evidence is a strategy that works.

    However, when it comes to the subject of god, this standard of evidence cannot be met. If belief were to come without negative consequences (to the individual or society), then this wouldnt be a bad thing. Unfortunately, this all to often is not the case.

    That being said, if something is believed true on insufficient evidence* AND this belief causes harm, should not it be tossed away? The alternative is equivalent to crossing the road without the benefit of the senses. 

    *Belief in god is held on insufficient evidence and often in the face of evidence to the contrary. (Fundamentalism, literalist interpretations, Young Earth Creationism, etc)



  • janesix
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    My evidence is sufficient.
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @janesix
    Your standard of evidence is not consistent. 

  • janesix
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    It is good enough for me.
  • Mopac
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    Everyone who is alive has performed all the necessary scientific experiments to prove conclusively that The Truth is real, that there is Supreme Reality.

    As The Truth is God, it would be ridiculous for me to require further evidence.

    Prove to me it is true that there is such a thing as proof!

    It even sounds stupid.

    This is why I don't believe most God deniers understand what it is they are saying is nonexistent. You can't say, "Existence doesn't exist". This is stupid.


  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @janesix
    If your belief causes no harm to others, then it really makes no difference. However, if it does, then "good enough for me" is no justification.
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @Mopac
    Reality and truth exist. On this we agree. However you arbitrarily duct tape "God" to these for no discernable reason. 

    Assertion is not evidence, Mo.

  • Mopac
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    I have always been very clear about my reason for declaring boldly that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.


    This is what scripture teaches. This is what thousands of years worth of theology teaches. It is written in dictionaries.


    And if none of these sources even existed, it is simply true that there is nothing else that even comes close to being worthy of being called God.


    Whether you admit it or not, The Truth is God over your life, and no amount of rebelling against this undermines The Reality of God's sovereignty over all things.

    So in actuality, there would be a better case that those who deny The One True God are the ones arbitrarily changing the glory of the uncorruptable God into an image that they can actually argue against. 

    There is no argument against God, and you, acknowledging that reality and truth exist even can admit this.

    So here is your good news for the day. The Truth is what sets you free, and The Truth is God. Salvation is of God.





  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @Mopac
    And if none of these sources even existed, it is simply true that there is nothing else that even comes close to being worthy of being called God.

    So, your 'evidence' boils down to an argument from incredulity?  That's quite an unimpressive (and illogical) argument.






  • janesix
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    I don't see how my beliefs can cause harm to others.
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @janesix
    I dont claim to know your beliefs cause harm, but if you found they did then the OP is applicable.
  • janesix
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    Beliefs don't cause harm. Actions (or inaction) do. 


  • SkepticalOne
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    Actions are driven by beliefs.
  • janesix
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    So? We still chose our actions.

    I don't believe abortion is morally sound. However, I choose not to interfere with other people's choice in the matter. Homosexuality is distasteful to me. But I choose not to interfere with their right to be together. My list could go on. But I think you get the picture. I don't see why my religious beliefs would be any different.

    We can chose actions that go against our instincts, so why not our beliefs? 


  • Mopac
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    Rightly identifying God as The Truth is not a fallacy, that is what the concept of God in monotheism means.


    If anything, speaking of God as being anything other than The Truth is a fallacy.
  • Mopac
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    There is nothing rational about atheism towards The One True God. 

    You can't make claims about truth while simultaneously denying the reality of The Truth.
  • janesix
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    --> @Mopac
    what is Truth to you?
  • Mopac
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    --> @janesix
    The Supreme and Ultimate Reality 
  • janesix
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    Yeah you write those things alot, but what do you really mean? Can you explain in detail please?
  • Mopac
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    --> @janesix
    It is what it is.

    Exactly what it means.


    Understanding of God is not God

  • janesix
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    --> @Mopac
    Those are just words. They mean nothing to me. Try to be less cryptic. Why are you making it difficult? Don't you want to be understood?
  • Mopac
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    --> @janesix
    The One underlying reality that all realities exist in, by, and through. The one Reality that is eternal, always been, always is, and always will be. Incomparable, Singular, never changing, all pervasive, all encompassing, REALITY

    The way things actually are as opposed to the way things appear to be, are thought of being, etc.

    It's the source. The beginning and the end.

    Omnipotent, that is, all influence comes from in.

    Omnipresent, that is, everywhere at once.

    Omnibenevolent, that is, everything it does is good

    Omniscient, that is, everything that is known is known in it.


    I'm talking about God, the one that is written on the hearts of all. Who is nearer than the breath, who formed us in the womb, sustains us through life, and The Eternal Lord of All. The First and The Last.

    The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. The Supreme Being. God.



    Really, it is what it is. The Truth. What is The Truth? Exactly what the word means.

    Is my understanding of the Truth ahat is ultimately real? No, and indeed, all fall short. If this wasn't the case it wouldn't be what it is.

    So we can debate about our understandings of God for eternity, but one thing that is absolutely not up for debate is that the concept of God refers to The Ultimate Reality, and to make God anything less is to speak of some other entity. 
  • janesix
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    --> @Mopac
    How can God be all good if created everything/is everything
  • Aran55633
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    --> @Mopac
    Mopac, you are wrong.  Vishnu, Krishna, and Brahma are the original uncaused causes.  It is by and through them that all we see exists.  They are the Eternal, Supreme Reality.  Through them is our reality created, maintained, and, in the end, replaced with a new reality.  Replaced because they are THE Ultimate Reality.

    . . .  You see how silly it is to say these things, right?  It’s pretty much exactly the same thing you’re saying; there’s no evidence or logic to back it up, and no one could ever produce any evidence to support it.  It is the same with your argument.

    You just say these things as if it should be self-evidently true, but you could say the same thing about any religion, or really just anything.  Shiva, Allah, Wotan, a ham sandwich, et cetera.

    You’re not the first person to think that you know everything.  
  • Mopac
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    --> @Aran55633
    The Truth clearly transcends the cultural trappings and the traditions of men

    As it is written,

    "ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;"


    The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and true religion is always the love of this God.

    When we speak of God, we are speaking of The Uncreated through the medium of creation, and indeed, this is how we relate to God. Through the medium of creation.

    Those who have no charity will kill each other over what to call a rose. They will kill each ither when they believe the same things, never knowing.

    This is why sincere faith is not enough, there must also be charity.


    Sincere faith and charity is The Way.