Scinetists say Guns cause crime , treat them strictly and crime drops,

Author: billbatard ,

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  • billbatard
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    billbatard
    Science has studied the gun issue and finds regulation helps reduce violence, I accept this because I understand how the Scientific method works, it is objective and careful , if it make s a mistake it tests again and again, and Scientist strike me as much more objective about the subject than a bunch of uneducated yahoos and gun manufactures who are basically no different than drug dealers  https://www.businessinsider.com/science-of-gun-control-what-works-2018-2
  • Mopac
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    --> @billbatard
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I dunno, it seems to me that at least in America, the 2nd amendment to the constitution was added with the understanding thst the right to bear arms is necessary to the security of a free state.

  • billbatard
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    --> @Mopac
    well they were wrong and also the original intent was to give states the right to fomr militias not extend individual rights to crazy people and criminals, you had a right to bear arms for the purpose of being in a militia thats itThe Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.  The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.
    Retired Chief Justice Warren Burger, "The Right to Bear Arms," Parade Magazine, January 14, 1990.  https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/12/25/1171716/-The-Second-Amendment-Has-Nothing-to-Do-with-Gun-Ownership

  • Mopac
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    --> @billbatard
    You can't say they are wrong and then tell me they meant something else at the same time unless you are trying to say they were even wrong about what you say they were really saying.

    Cuz that is just confusin'

    Interesting article though.



  • billbatard
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    --> @Mopac
    the person saying the original intend was for states to create militias was a supreme court justice  https://www.businessinsider.com/science-of-gun-control-what-works-2018-2The Gun Lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.  The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.
    Retired Chief Justice Warren Burger, "The Right to Bear Arms," Parade Magazine, January 14, 1990.  https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/12/25/1171716/-The-Second-Amendment-Has-Nothing-to-Do-with-Gun-Ownership

  • Mopac
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    --> @billbatard
    You are repeating yourself.
  • billbatard
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    --> @Mopac
    so are you you seem to ignore my good points
  • Mopac
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    --> @billbatard
    No, I am not ignoring. I thought that was an informative article. Maybe the 2nd amendment wasn't intended to be a recognition of the common anybody to have a firearm.

    But you might be able to make a case that anyone who has ever been in the armed forces, federal or state militia, that even when not serving those individuals should be allowed and even maybe encouraged  to keep and bear arms.

    What do you think about requiring proper training before being allowed to keep and bear arms?


    What do you think about swords and such?



  • billbatard
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    --> @Mopac
    you could make that argument, you wont necessarily win the argument
  • Mopac
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    --> @billbatard
    Well, there is such a thing as a reserve.
  • Christen
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    --> @Mopac
    I just debated this person on this very topic and won. https://www.debateart.com/debates/1373/gun-control
  • billbatard
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    --> @Christen
    you want to try again i say we rematch i can beat you i have the facts
  • billbatard
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    --> @Christen
    people are so partisan on this issue they never vote fair
  • Greyparrot
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    Greyparrot
    Venezuela has no guns. No violence either. Same with China.
  • billbatard
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    --> @Greyparrot
    singapore no guns no crime same with japan and the uk
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2017. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 74% during that span.

    Despite a significant increase in the sales of firearms since 1994, the US has seen a drop in the annual rate of homicides using a firearm from 7.0 per 100,000 population in 1993 to 3.6 per 100,000.

    According to the FBI's data, the national rate of violent crime has decreased 49 percent since its apex in 1991. Even as a certain type of mass shooting is apparently becoming more frequent, America has become a much less violent place.

    1. More police officers on the beat
    2. Police using computers
    3. Less booze
    4. Less lead
    5. A better economy


    so gun sales have gone up and depending on the year you look at you could say skyrocketed and yet the murder rate goes down....hmmm


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    There's a really low, low correlation causation...

    Politicians bowing to BLM and ordering Urban police to stop making the criminals angry has more to do with gun deaths than Jimmy owning a pistola under his pillow.
  • Christen
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    --> @billbatard
    I'm busy at the moment. I can't do any new debates.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    Dr.Franklin
    Fact: The United Kingdom has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States, Even when British citizens could legally buy machine guns (Briton's modern era of gun control did not ramp up until the 1960s). The difference is cultural, Not legal.

    Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, The rate of crime " especially violent crime " has risen.

    Fact: Ironically, Firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned.

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, The rate of crime " especially violent crime " has risen.
    I said this in your other topic as well, but what you are claiming to be facts don't appear to be true. Their crime rate has been falling for years. Please provide sourcing. 

    Fact: Ironically, Firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned.
    This also appears to be untrue. Their gun crime has risen in the last few years, but it is significantly lower than it was in the early 2000s. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Already destroyed
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    No, I responded in your other thread. The links you provided actually contradict what you claimed to be facts. 
  • billbatard
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    so? theyve always had stricter gun laws too
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @billbatard
    yeah and uk crime rates up!
  • billbatard
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    can you prove that? they were down for years Long-term fall in crime is over as statistics show spike in robbery and murder
    The figures come as the number of police officers in England and Wales plummets to a record low and the proportion of solved crimes also drops
    lets remember co relation doesn't prove causation Correlation does not imply causation. In statistics, the phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them.
    Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Correlation_does_not_imply_causation but what happened in the uk was crime dropped steadily for 20 years after stricter laws were passed cuts were made in Police numbers many attribute recent spiked to cuts in law enforcement budgets can you see how that is more likely the reason since crime had been dropping before that? And then  increased immediately after budget cuts in police funding
    The government has been warned it is “sleepwalking into a nightmare” as new figures show murder, robbery and stabbings increasing sharply in England and Wales.
    The number of police officers has hit a record low, amid claims funding cuts have driven up violent crime and “encouraged” offenders.

    Almost half of all criminal investigations have been closed with no suspect identified, and the proportion ending with someone being charged or summonsed to court fell to just 9 per cent in the year to March.

    The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said that “after falling in recent decades, the overall level of crime is now stabilising”.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/uk-crime-rise-robbery-murder-knife-statistics-ons-police-england-wales-a8454081.html from 1997 to 2010 crime feel deamatically in the uk and then increased only after cuts in police budgets 

    Claim
    Violent crime is at record levels.
    Conclusion
    Incorrect. Several reliable sources indicate that overall violent crime in England and Wales is far lower now than it was in the 1990s. Police figures show violent crimes at their highest recorded level, but these are unreliable.      crime rates are actually much lower than they were before recent gun restrictions 

    In brief
    Claim
    Violent crime is at record levels.
    Conclusion
    Incorrect. Several reliable sources indicate that overall violent crime in England and Wales is far lower now than it was in the 1990s. Police figures show violent crimes at their highest recorded level, but these are unreliable.

    Claim 1 of 2


    Louise Haigh MP


    @LouHaigh


    Never since records began have violent crime and knife crime been as high as they are today. This crisis is a consequence of nine years of Government cuts to the police and youth services.



    192 people are talking about this





    It’s not correct that violent crime is at a record high. Several reliable sources indicate that violent crime is far lower now than it was in the 1990s in England and Wales.
    Louise Haigh’s claims are based on the number of violent crimes recorded by the police. It’s true that police figures show the highest ever recorded levels of violent crime and knife crime specifically, but it’s almost impossible to derive any trustworthy trend from this data, as police recording practices have changed significantly over time.
    This isn’t to say violent crime isn’t rising—the evidence indicates some types of violent crime have begun to increase in recent years. But saying violence is at record levels is flatly contradicted by more reliable data.
    Looking at knife crime specifically, police and hospital figures show knife crime to be at or near its highest recorded levels. Knife crime is almost certainly rising at the moment, but no source is strong enough for us to be certain that it’s at record levels.

    In brief
    Claim
    Violent crime is at record levels.
    Conclusion
    Incorrect. Several reliable sources indicate that overall violent crime in England and Wales is far lower now than it was in the 1990s. Police figures show violent crimes at their highest recorded level, but these are unreliable.

    Claim 1 of 2