Dark Crystal Endgame

Author: Lunatic ,

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  • Lunatic
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    Mafia Win!
     

    Night Actions:
     
    Thank you to everyone who played in this game! My main reason for choosing this theme was to advertise this new show on Netflix! It was fantastically made, and I hope some of you had a chance to learn more about this cool universe while researching roles etc. If you did share your thoughts on the dark crystal with me!
     
    As far as the game goes it was absolutely crazy!

    Day phase 1 Drafterman got really unlucky. Funnily enough, Drafterman had a solid claim. The podlings as a group of characters was actually a role that would have been included in the game, but was removed because of downsizing from 13 to 10. Then AROSE fake CC’ed him him as Hup (not sure that neccarily counts as a CC, but it would have hurt him). Not sure what AROSE was thinking there. If drafter was town he would have really screwed over his team there, he basically lied about his claim and CC’ed drafter over a strong gut feeling drafter was guilty. Well it would have turned out horribly for him if Drafter didn’t claim JOAT right after. That sealed drafters fate. Obviously drafter wouldn’t have had a way of knowing that there was a town role connected to his that was also JOAT so it wasn’t necessarily a bad play, just really unlucky on his part. I am really surprised that this worked in towns favor, and I seriously am not trying to be a dick, but I think AROSE plan (while successful) was a bad town play. It worked for him out of extreme luck. Draftermans luck worsened that night phase when he killed Warren. Warren’s role was designed to be a bit swingy, the original game just had 3 mafia and no 3rd party. I changed it when I was only able to get 10 and warrens role was made. I figured the best way to balance 3 mafia would be to do it the way I did, and have them not be able to communicate with warren or know who the ascendency was if he chose to join them. Warren did try dropping hints to mafia in Day Phase one when he first mention affiliation changing roles, but I guess that would be kind of a stretch for mafia to pick up on. Their night kill choice wasn’t a bad one, just unlucky again.
     
    Day Phase 3 is where towns luck started turning around IMO. I don’t know why this Speed VS supa thing meant one or the other was town. Greyparrot did awesome staying undercover.

    I had a feeling all that time spent deliberating a decision was gonna be ultimately pointless. At the ens of the day he still only had a 50/50 shot of hammering correctly and didnt even make a detailed analysis for his decision so overthinking might have hindered instead of helped. But supa had some bad play so I kind of figured he would have been lynched.



     
    Thoughts on the game? How was the balance?

  • drafterman
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    My feedback:

    @AROSE

    You did well. I went in for a overly complicated claim and you caught me. Recognizing how my group claim lined up with the info iny our PM was a good catch and you deserve kudos for it. But I think you only hampered yourself with the Hup/Vanilla stuff. It didn't help your case at all and in fact undermined the very reason why you went after me in the first place. All it did was create confusion. If you had come at me with your actual claim "I'm a group too, and my PM says the other group is my Skesis counterpart" that would have been a more effective case, more likely to get me lynched first, increasing Town's odds of winning.

    Other than that, it was a good play and unfortunate for Town you ended up getting lynched DP1.

    @Supa

    I'm not really going to go in depth here, as you really aren't open to feedback or constructive criticism. So I'll just say you need to pace yourself. Your impressions and perception of the game aren't as good as you make them out to be, and I'd very much recommend scaling things back a bit. Calling other people idiots isn't how you win this game.

    @Everyone

    NEVER VTL YOURSELF. Again. NEVER VTL YOURSELF. It does absolutely nothing to help your wincon. Regardless of your faction you are better off stalling and letting the Phase end in a No Lynch than contributing to your own lynch. "I'll lynch myself if you're town" does nothing except give the Mafia an excuse to get two townies lynched for the price of one, which almost happened if Pie hadn't stopped it! (And well, ended up happening anyway).

    Also, in this and the previous game I see a lot of concern and hand wringing over people "confirming" themselves: a hesitancy to lynch people if they can "confirm" themselves and focusing people who are "confirmed" scum and liberally lumping people into the "confirmed" town camp. In addition the fact that most instances of the term "confirmed" are used incorrectly, a lot of people really don't understand the distinction between character, role, and affiliation confirmation. They aren't hard linked. Character and affiliation, usually. Almost never role and affiliation.

    People confirming or failing to confirm their role means very little. Mafia will only usually claim a confirmable role if they can, in fact, confirm it or will otherwise make excuses as to why their role has yet to be confirmed. If you make it a habit of lynching people for failing to confirm their role, then Mafia is just going to take efforts to focus on preventing Town from doing that (as we did with Supa) since Mafia usually has a ton of ways of interfering Town roles. Whether or not a person has confirmed their role is a piece of information, but it's mostly neutral at least until the person dies and their affiliation is finally confirmed, which allows Town to reevaluate their actions in that light. Mostly in terms of CCs and informative reports.

    Lastly, a lesson for myself and Mafia in general: K.I.S.S. Keep it Simple, Stupid. Both me and Grey went for overly complicated claims which ended up working against us. For me, I generally have a tendancy to try and be as truthful as possible as Mafia, as to avoid the odd Lie Detector and to keep the lies I have to remember to a minimum. Indeed, I was a group (rather than a single character), and I was a JOAT (only lying about a couple of the abilities). This claim is the primary reason why I got lynched.

    I deliberately left the Jen claim for Mharman/Grey, due to Mharman's inactivity. I was banking on my own abilities to stay alive and thought that the guarnateed claim would work better for the inactive Mharman. Unfortunately, Grey doesn't like main character fake claims, so this ended up hurting us in the long run, but not fatally so ;)

  • drafterman
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    --> @Lunatic
    I think the balance was overall Okay. The only thing I would tweak would be warren's role. Either just have it have been a fixed 3rd Party survivor or, if he chose mafia, he doesn't count towards Mafia numbers (and don't inform the Mafia).

    I'm not sure I understand the point of the Jailer Role vs just having it be a straight Roleblocker, but I assume this is an artifact from the original 13p set-up.

    I enjoyed the game a lot and liked the design.
  • Greyparrot
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    This was my 1st win as mafia. I used the tried and true strategy for scum by laying low and saying little, but just enough to appear helpful.

    Tossing small seeds of doubt and never getting in a 1v1 attack with any of the town.

    Supa has to stop with the gambits. Arose too. Luck doesn't win these mafia games in the end, and you essentially kill yourself and town along with it when your gambit (lie) is revealed.
  • Lunatic
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    --> @drafterman
    Jailer was more in line with what the garthim actually do in the show. It was also a tease of info that there might not be an every night doc in the game.

    Warrens role was a bit swingy but I think it swung in mafia favor slightly more which is why it had the caveat it did. I mostly liked the idea of a role where a player has control over his own fate early on. I did a role similar to this in kill bill mafia a while ago i think

  • Speedrace
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    --> @drafterman
    Jailer roleblocks the person targeted AND stops actions from targeting that person as well
  • Speedrace
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Amazing play dude, never suspected you
  • drafterman
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    --> @Speedrace
    Jailer roleblocks the person targeted AND stops actions from targeting that person as well
    Typically, yes. This wording however just says that the target is "protected." I interpreted that to mean that they can't be killed, but the only killing component is the Mafia Night Kill.


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Speedrace
    I think only the experienced people would notice I was laying low, luckily most of them were already dead.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Speedrace
    There's also another scum tell from my play but only the experienced would have seen it.
  • SupaDudz
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    I want a PressF full explanation why he chose me over Grey when I gave full reasons, grye did not even attempt to prove me scum
  • SupaDudz
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    Grey*
  • SupaDudz
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    I had the rights reads but no one would listen

    My only mistake was the gambit, which was so stupid, but everyone misread the evidence and thought into it
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @drafterman
    I'm not really going to go in depth here, as you really aren't open to feedback or constructive criticism. So I'll just say you need to pace yourself. Your impressions and perception of the game aren't as good as you make them out to be, and I'd very much recommend scaling things back a bit. Calling other people idiots isn't how you win this game.


    I was, but I knew who scum was
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @SupaDudz
    I'm pleased town didn't lynch all liars so you could survive to the end to look scummy.
  • drafterman
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Your read on me was based on faulty reasoning (you even admitted it was faulty) and your read on Grey was basically PoE.

    But it really doesn't matter how good your reads are if you can't convince anyone else of them.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @drafterman
    That’s F’s fault, and I gave full reasoning and it wasn’t bad reason 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    his stupid 1v1 with speed sealed it.
  • drafterman
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    --> @SupaDudz
    And yet.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @drafterman
    It's his fault lol
  • drafterman
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Okay buddy.
  • A-R-O-S-E
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    --> @drafterman
    I could have waited but fake claimed because I wanted to find you before you found me, and didn't think I could find you the first DP.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @drafterman
    And your criticism of me not wanting to be open is not true. I listened to your mafia example clearly, what was I gonna do? There was already a town bias on me from the start
  • drafterman
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    --> @A-R-O-S-E
    Right, but your fake claim didn't actually help you "find" me.

    You had no way of knowing that I would claim "the Podlings" or anything that would CC that fake claim. You have to see that that was pure luck. Your claim didn't make me claim any faster and made CCing me more complicated.
  • drafterman
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Last game I did a point-by-point analysis of your play, with links to specific posts throughout the game and you were unphased. I'm not doing that again. You have your belief and are going to stand by it to the death. You're wrong, but you're unwilling to accept that, understand why, and change. I'm fine with that. Your fine with that. We're both fine with that.

    It's mainly as an example to others about behavior not to emulate.