GOP complains impeachment hearings are held in secret, votes to keep them in secret

Author: Imabench ,

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  • Imabench
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    Let me preface this by saying this is not a shot at the GOP specifically. The point Im trying to make here is more encompassing: that politicians in Congress just don't know how to properly bluff or pick their battles wisely anymore. This is just the most recent example that took place that clearly demonstrates the case that I think will help spark a conversation about this. 

    As for the example, one of the GOP's main objections to the hearings held over an Impeachment Inquiry against Donald Trump being held in the House of Representatives is that the meetings where details about the Ukraine scandal are being held in secret. A lot of the meetings are 'Closed door' meetings where info is kept confidential and is not released to the public. The GOP have been up in arms over the hearings being held in secret, to the point that some House Republicans have literally stormed into meetings to demand that info be made open to the public. (They have also demanded that the GOP be able to ask questions, completely ignoring the fact that House Republicans sit on the committees of many of these meetings and can already ask questions on behalf of their party)

    To summarize, the GOP are mad at how Impeachment hearings are being held in secret, and want to open them up to the public. If a vote was held to make the proceedings public, the GOP would then presumably be willing to do so in order to have public meetings that would allegedly vindicate the president. 


    To complain about some aspect of the hearings and stage a number of publicity stunts to try to raise awareness about the secrecy of the meetings, only to unanimously vote against revealing the testimony in the meanings to the public, is just ass-backwards stupidity that highlights what is happening to Congress.... In the past, both parties were at least smart enough to know when to roll over and concede ground on a dispute or disagreement, and when to dig deep and fight tooth and nail for your position. Now though there is only fighting tooth and nail on every issue which is adding to the disfunction and animosity between parties in DC and through the nation. 

    Kevin Spacey in House of Cards once said 'Dont start a war you're not prepared to lose" or something along the lines of that, Congress has clearly forgotten that advice. Everything, no mater how trivial, has now become a requirement for elected officials to dig in and fight like hell over, even issues that could easily backfire right into their own faces.

    One of the more legendary examples I can recall was how Mitch McConnell had to filibuster and block his own bill that he proposed where Obama would be able to define the financial limits the government could borrow for spending (a power that traditionally was handled by Congress). The Democrats called the bluff, McConnell had to organize votes against his own resolution, and was soundly defeated by the whole fiasco which could have been entirely avoided if people in Congress had any tactical foresight. 

    This universal stupidity in Congress is contributing to the death of bipartisanship and total gridlock in legislation for the last almost 10 years. Its better off for everyone if Congressmen know when to be tactical and not fight the fights that will surely be lost, compared to going all-in at every opportunity when there is almost nothing to be gained or even lost. 


  • Greyparrot
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    Don't be silly. None of these GOP congresspeople are actually "mad" about this. They just want to pressure a vote.
  • Imabench
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    --> @Greyparrot
    And they voted against the very thing they were literally staging storm-ins to protest. They made it explicitly clear that they didn't actually give a shit about the secrecy of the meetings when instead they could have: 

    A - Not make a big deal in the first place and keep the meetings in secret like they clearly desire to limit the impact the proceedings will have.
    B - Vote for the meetings to be open for the supposed vindication the public access would provide for Trump on the scandal. 

    Instead of doing either of those two far more sensible things, the congressmen have instead opted to cry and publicly complain that the meetings should be open, only to then reject the offer of having the meetings be open because the testimony could be damaging to them politically. Im pretty sure at this point we could outmaneuver Congress since they all collectively trip over their own balls at every opportunity. 

    The fact that they also tried to force a vote when they are at a steep numerical disadvantage in the House only adds another layer of stupidity to the whole thing. Rather then pick one of two sensible options, they went all in on a brain-dead third path they were destined to lose. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Imabench
    As you clearly pointed out, none of these people give a rat's ass about the hearsay testimony or the decision to publicly air the crap.

    All they want is a vote on the floor, and will do anything to get that.

    There is no other motive than that.
  • Dr.Franklin
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    I voted like everybody told me toand all I got was a bad congress
  • HistoryBuff
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    I sort of disagree with both Greyparrot and Imabench. They knew that there would eventually be a vote and the evidence would become public. They never cared about that. They also don't care if there is a vote on it. They know that any vote on it in congress will pass. I don't think that was ever the point. 

    The point was to continue to feed nonsense news stories to groups like fox news. They want to bring up any kind of nonsense defense they can possibly come up with that doesn't require them to say that what trump did was good. They know trump did some really shady stuff. Many of them know what he did was illegal. So they don't want to come out and say that it wasn't or it might bite them in the ass later.

    To me, it looks like the goal is to keep stoking conspiracy theories and denial so that as the evidence of trump's guilt continues to come out, a large chunk the country simply isn't listening. They heard all about how the dems were engaging is a super secret, anti constitutional, coup during their crazy communist takeover of democracy (or whatever lies fox feeds them) in this 1st phase of the inquiry. So it won't matter that trump gets proven to be guilty because trump's base will never believe it. Or even if they do believe the evidence, they will still think that whatever the dems did is worse than trump's crimes. 

    But I don't think this is likely to succeed. There is about 30% of the country this will definitely work on. They are so deep in trump land that he could murder their sister and they would cheer him on. But 50% already think he should be removed. And 15-20% are in touch with reality enough to see the evidence and understand he is a criminal. I don't think this is a strategy that will work. Assuming Pelosi doesn't screw it all up of course. 
  • Imabench
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    --> @Greyparrot
    All they want is a vote on the floor, and will do anything to get that.
    But why though, when its clear that 1) They don't have the numbers to succeed in keeping the meetings private should a vote take place, and 2) AFTER complaining that they werent public in the first place?

    Any attempted gain they would get from being defeated in a vote to make the hearings open becomes incredibly undermined by their vocal protests to want the meetings to be publicized and then trying to vote to keep them private regardless. 

    Its the equivalent of a corporation demanding that union emails about a possible strike be made public, then voting against making the union emails public, only to then have those union emails publicized anyways because the union has more support than the corporation and is okay with making them public to begin with.

    Just wall-to-wall tactlessness. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Imabench
    Do you really not understand why the GOP will harass and obstruct and pull stunts to force a vote on the floor?

    They don't give a rats asshole about how the impeachment is done as long as there is a vote.

    Just like the Dems don't give a rat's ass about impeachment as long as they don't have to hold a vote on the floor.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Imabench
    In fact, I believe the only people in congress who are genuinely angry are the squad and MAYBE rand paul. Everyone else is just jockeying for power.
  • Imabench
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    Im not talking about the overall vote on impeachment itself you massive idiot, Im talking about the recent specific act that was passed about having public hearings be included in the inquiry which is still ongoing. 

    "The text of the resolution lays out how the House Intelligence Committee will conduct public hearings and how the House Judiciary Committee "shall report to the House of Representatives such resolutions, articles of impeachment, or other recommendations as it deems proper.""

    The recent act isn't a vote on whether or not Trump should be impeached, its only about expanding the inquiry that could possibly lead to a vote on impeachment to include public testimony and general guidelines to handle public hearings. https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/29/politics/impeachment-resolution-released-rules-committee/index.html


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Imabench
    And it's nothing more than a push to get them to vote, which they did by the way. Only 2 Democrats voted against it, putting 28 seats in Trump counties jeopardy.

    This is a huge win for the trolling GOP.

  • Greyparrot
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  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    This is a huge win for the trolling GOP.
    The majority of americans support impeachment. The republicans trying to block investigation of someone we know has committed crimes is far more damaging.

    Especially considering they were crying (and committing crimes in Mat Gates' case) to get this inquiry to be open. When the Dems vote to open it, they all vote against it. At least if they were consistent in their criticisms people might believe they are actually telling the truth. But moving the goal posts every week is only making it obvious to people that the president is guilty. If he weren't then they would actually have a consistent defense. They wouldn't need to move the goal posts every time more damning evidence comes out. 
  • ethang5
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    The majority of americans support impeachment. 
    Like the majority of Americans supported Hillery?

    The majority of Americans support impeachment if a president has broken the law.

    And the republicans voted against open hearings because of the poison pills Nancy put in the vote. Like the chairperson would be able to sack the Presidents legal consul.

    America isn't buying this nonsense because they see it for what it is. Nonsense.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ethang5
    Like the majority of Americans supported Hillery?
    The majority did support hillary. She wont the popular vote. 

    The majority of Americans support impeachment if a president has broken the law.
    We already know for certain he has broken 1. He asked for a thing of value that would help him in an election. The moment he asked them for dirt on Biden he committed this crime. The 2nd has now been confirmed in sworn testimony as well as a statement by Trump's chief of staff. So it isn't really a secret he committed that one either. 

    America isn't buying this nonsense because they see it for what it is. Nonsense.
    It is carrying out the constitution. Is the constitution nonsense to you? Do you think the president should be above the law?
  • ethang5
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    Post deleted
  • ethang5
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    -->@HistoryBuff

    Like the majority of Americans supported Hillery?

    The majority did support hillary. She wont the popular vote. 
    She will go down in history as America's first female president.

    The majority of Americans support impeachment if a president has broken the law.

    We already know for certain he has broken 1.
    Who is "we"?

    He asked for a thing of value that would help him in an election. The moment he asked them for dirt on Biden he committed this crime.
    He did not ask for dirt on Biden. He asked that the whole situation, of which Biden was a part, be investigated.

    An investigation could have cleared Biden too. There was no reason for the president to shirk his responsibility to ensure a recipient of our tax dollars was not engaged in corruption.

    Biden does not gain immunity just because he's running for office.

    The 2nd has now been confirmed in sworn testimony as well as a statement by Trump's chief of staff. So it isn't really a secret he committed that one either. 
    Lucky for Trump then that this is America, where it takes more than "statements" to convict a person and people are innocent until proven guilty.

    Trump asked for an investigation. That is not a crime, it was his duty. Democrats are assuming his intent. Assumptions do not convict people.

    America isn't buying this nonsense because they see it for what it is. Nonsense.

    It is carrying out the constitution.
    Nonsense. Pelosi and Shiff are 2 of the most dishonest people in America. Its an impeachment looking for a victim.

    Is the constitution nonsense to you?
    The constitution isn't trying to impeach Trump. But losers who try to hide behind it to play dirty politics are nonsense.

    Do you think the president should be above the law?
    No. But simply calling a normal thing a crime and then trying to impeach is not the law. It's fakery.

    This is exactly why the founding fathers made these rules for impeachment so that dishonest politicians could not railroad a president on only nonsense.

    This hypocrisy will be crushed in the senate, and the president will go on to "lose" the majority of Americans again in 2020.

    Tell Hillery to get ready for her second Term.

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ethang5
    She will go down in history as America's first female president.
    Your snide comment was about whether she had majority support. She did. The only reason trump was able to win was because of the poor design of the electoral system. The person who got the least votes became president. 

    Who is "we"?
    Anyone who has been paying attention. It is a crime to ask for a thing of value from a foreigner to help you in an election. Trump asked the president of ukraine for dirt on Biden. These facts are publicly available to anyone who cares. 

    He did not ask for dirt on Biden. He asked that the whole situation, of which Biden was a part, be investigated.
    He asked about Biden by name. If it was a general request to look into corruption he wouldn't have named Biden. The moment he asked for that he committed a crime.

    Lucky for Trump then that this is America, where it takes more than "statements" to convict a person and people are innocent until proven guilty.
    You are clearly quite unfamiliar with how the law works. Statements can very easily be criminal. Threatening a witness for example is just a statement, (IE if you testify I will hurt you) but it is definitely a crime. A statement asking for dirt from a foreigner to help in an election is also a crime. 

    America isn't buying this nonsense because they see it for what it is. Nonsense.
    51% already support impeachment and removal. Where exactly are you getting this delusion that americans "aren't buying" it?

    The constitution isn't trying to impeach Trump. But losers who try to hide behind it to play dirty politics are nonsense.
    Trump has been proven to have committed 1 crime already. There is substantial evidence he has committed a second including his chief of staff admitting to it in a press briefing. Presidents were never intended to be above the law. Trump is the exact use case that the founding fathers created the impeachment process for. A narcissist who abuses the office of the president for personal gain. 

    No. But simply calling a normal thing a crime and then trying to impeach is not the law. It's fakery.
    You tell me what president has used funds approved by congress to blackmail a foreign government into helping him win an election. What trump did is in no way normal. Although I will grant you that abusing the office to try to profit is normal for trump. But that in no way makes it ok. 

  • ILikePie5
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    --> @Imabench
    They all voted against making the meetings open:

    This is misleading. One bad clause in the entire resolution can make it not passable in Congress. In this scenario, the bill stated that the GOP does not have the authority subpoena unless the Chairman (Democrat) says it’s ok which goes against precedent in both the Nixon and Clinton trials where both the Chairman and Ranking Member had the authority to subpoena whoever they wanted to. One bad clause can literally make the bill unpassable. In this case it passed but with every Republican and 2 Democrats against it, but you can’t blame the GOP for being hypocritical when the Democrats purposefully did that.
  • ILikePie5
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    We already know for certain he has broken 1. He asked for a thing of value that would help him in an election.

    Why isn’t Biden in jail?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ILikePie5
    Why isn’t Biden in jail?
    For what? Other than some vague trump lines, there is no suggestion Biden ever broke a law. He carried out what the US government, the EU, the UK and many others wanted done. 


  • ILikePie5
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    For what? Other than some vague trump lines, there is no suggestion Biden ever broke a law. He carried out what the US government, the EU, the UK and many others wanted done. 

    So because they wanted it, it’s not illegal? You sir are under the assumption that because everyone wanted it, it was ok. The fact of the matter is that no one has the right to influence the judicial system of another country. What Biden did was inherently wrong no matter how you spin it. He knowingly committed quid pro quo with the help of Barack Obama.

    And he admitted that he did in his interview. If you think what Trump did was illegal - which there is no evidence of unless you believe Adam Schiff and his leakers (another crime) then you are also part of the problem. Biden is not above the law. It is the prerogative of the President to investigate corruption whenever it occurred especially in the US government. Just because he’s a possible opponent doesn’t make him go above the law.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    The only reason Trump was able to win was because of the poor design of the electoral system. The person who got the least CALIFORNIA votes became president. 

    Fixed that for you.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ILikePie5
    So because they wanted it, it’s not illegal? You sir are under the assumption that because everyone wanted it, it was ok. The fact of the matter is that no one has the right to influence the judicial system of another country. What Biden did was inherently wrong no matter how you spin it. He knowingly committed quid pro quo with the help of Barack Obama.
    Do you even know what a quid pro quo is? If you exchange money for any commercial item, that is a quid pro quo. It just means you give something and you get something. In general a quid pro quo is normal. The reason when trump did it it was illegal was because he was giving something with the power of the presidency in exchange to get something that benefits him personally. That is extremely bad and illegal. 

    Biden gave something and the US got something. That is normal diplomacy. But Biden didn't do it with any intention of personally profiting. There is also no evidence that he did personally profit. Therefore no, there is no evidence Biden committed a crime. There is clear evidence trump did. 

    Biden is not above the law.
    No, he is not. But since he didn't violate any laws, that statement is irrelevant. 

    It is the prerogative of the President to investigate corruption whenever it occurred especially in the US government.
    No it very much is not. Investigative powers are not granted to the president. If he wanted corruption investigated the correct path would be to either have a law enforcement agency or congress investigate. You do not send your personal attorney to dig up dirt on your rivals. 

    Just because he’s a possible opponent doesn’t make him go above the law.
    What crime do you think biden has broken?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Fixed that for you.
    Oh I understand. You only think votes matter in regions of the country that agree with you. So essentially, you don't believe in democracy.